Saddam 'never killed Kurds.'

Stop rubbing your eyes. Yep, you read it right.

According to Saddam's lawyer, it was Iran that "murdered" tens of thousands of Kurds in 1988.

Vienna - Iran, and not Saddam Hussein, was responsible for the killing of tens of thousands of Kurds and Shiites, said a lawyer for the deposed Iraqi dictator in comments published on Tuesday.

Issam Ghazzawi, who was part of Saddam's defence team, told the daily Die Presse that "Iran is responsible for the murders of the Kurds" killed by poison gas in 1988.

The lawyer was quoted as saying: "Iraq did not possess poison gas at this time."

Ghazzawi reportedly said that Iran also was responsible for the mass killings of Shiites who rose against Saddam in 1991.

Saddam 'never killed Kurds'

Unbelievable! Also notice the line that is in bold above. :shk:
Bear in mind what the article goes on to further mentions:

More than 100 000 Kurds were estimated to have been killed by Saddam's troops in 1988, including about 5 000 who were gassed to death in the Kurd city of Halabja and 8 000 members of a powerful clan who were reportedly rounded up and shot.

Up to 100 000 Shiites were killed, along with tens of thousands of Kurds, when Saddam moved to stamp out a rebellion after the first Gulf War in 1991.

This matter has been discussed a number of times in the past within ATS.
Evidences have been presented by both sides of the seemingly ongoing argument. After running across this article, perchance, maybe this lawyer needs to do a bit of reviewing, cause quite frankly, what he asserts and claims is pure horse bunk. It is pure bunk because even if it is shown that both sides were responsible for those Kurdish deaths, the defense has lost. Saddam's lawyer makes an absolute claim insinuating that Saddam 'never killed Kurds.' He is mistaken.





seekerof

Saddam Killed Kurds with Nerve Gas, Supplied by the Reagan Administration.

Thank You!
I almost busted a gut laughing after reading that!
I wonder if this "lawyer is any relation to my favorite "NewsMan"
Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf, The old Minister of (Mis)Information in Iraq.

Originally posted by Souljah
Saddam Killed Kurds with Nerve Gas, Supplied by the Reagan Administration.

maybe u should think about the Russians instead or maybe the French. if we did supplied the materials, he misused it instead, u can make chemical products into weapons of mass destruction with know how by his scientists. farm products most likely.

Well, if Saddam's on his way to trial, but is shot and killed beforehand, and then his murderer is also shot and killed, then maybe there's something to that.

Originally posted by deltaboy
maybe u should think about the Russians instead or maybe the French. if we did supplied the materials, he misused it instead, u can make chemical products into weapons of mass destruction with know how by his scientists. farm products most likely.

"The poison gas attack on the Iraqi town of Halabja was the largest-scale chemical weapons (CW) attack against a civilian population in modern times. ...The CW attack began early in the evening of March 16th, when a group of eight aircraft began dropping chemical bombs, and the chemical bombardment continued all night. ... The Halabja attack involved multiple chemical agents, including mustard gas, and the nerve agents sarin, tabun and VX."

On 25 May 1994, The US Senate Banking Committee released a report in which it was stated that pathogenic (meaning disease producing), toxigenic (meaning poisonous) and other biological research materials were exported to Iraq, pursuant to application and licensing by the U.S. Department of Commerce. It added: These exported biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and were capable of reproduction.

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

You want the List of Weapons Supplied?

cns.miis.edu...

groups.msn.com...

Did Saddam possess poison chemical gasses or did he not, Souljah?
If he was given those WMDs by the US, then did he not take possession of them? Did he not release them against the Iranians, Kurds, and Shi'ites?





seekerof

Originally posted by Seekerof
Did Saddam possess poison chemical gasses or did he not, Souljah?

Ofcourse he did - without them he probably would never won the Iraq-Iran War.

And if he never won this War, he would never invade Kuwait.

And if he never invaded Kuwait, US would never invade Iraq.

Pretty Nice, huh?

If he was given those WMDs by the US, then did he not take possession of them?

I dont Follow You here, Sir.

Did he not release them against the Iranians, Kurds, and Shi'ites?

Yes, he did.

And what did the US Administration do at that time?

NOTHING.

They Sold him the damn Stuff in the First Place!


PS: Nice New Avatar!



[edit on 12/7/05 by Souljah]

Did you know the only country that the kurds are welcomed is in Iraq.

How come if he killed the kurd the only counrty with a kurdish school and community is in Iraq.

in Turkey there are slaughter and nobody says anything

en.wikipedia.org...

The United States never supplied chemical weapons to Iraq and after denouncing Iraqi use of CWs on March 5, 1984, created the global system to stop CW precursors from being shipped to Iraq starting on March 30, 1984. The United States took these steps after it was discovered that Al-Haddad Enterprises (Nashville, Tennessee) had shipped 60 tons of DMMP to Iraq. DMMP (dimethyl methylphosphonate) is a nerve gas precursor. Al-Haddad Enterprises appears to have been an Iraqi front company. The owner of Al-Haddad, Sahib Abd al-Amir al-Haddad, is wanted in Germany for attempting to supply weapons to Iraq. Other countries, most notably India and Singapore supplied thousands of tons of precursors to Iraq.

Yet the evidence was nowhere to leave: In December 2002, Iraq's 1,200 page Weapons Declaration revealed a list of Western corporations and countries—as well as individuals—that exported chemical and biological materials to Iraq in the past two decades. Many American names were on the list. Alcolac International, for example, a Maryland company, transported thiodiglycol, a mustard gas precursor, to Iraq. A Tennessee manufacturer contributed large amounts of a chemical used to make sarin, a nerve gas implicated in Gulf War diseases. A full list of those companies and their involvements in Iraq [7] [8].

en.wikipedia.org...

The U.S. Department of Agriculture, also called the Agriculture Department, or USDA, is a Cabinet department of the United States Federal Government. Its purpose is to develop and execute policy on farming, agriculture, and food. It aims to meet the needs of farmers and ranchers, promote agricultural trade and production, work to assure food safety, protect natural resources, foster rural communities, also to meet the needs of the american people,and end hunger, in America and abroad.

en.wikipedia.org...

The United States Department of Commerce is a Cabinet department of the United States government concerned with promoting economic growth. It was originally created as the United States Department of Commerce and Labor on February 14, 1903. It was subsequently renamed to the Department of Commerce by President Taft on March 4, 1913, and its bureaus and agencies specializing in labor were transferred to the new Department of Labor.

The mission of the department is to "promote job creation and improved living standards for all Americans by creating an infrastructure that promotes economic growth, technological competitiveness, and sustainable development." Among its tasks are gathering economic and demographic data for business and government decision-making, issuing patents and trademarks, and helping to set industrial standards.

Donald Riegle, Chairman of the Senate committee that made the report, said, "UN inspectors had identified many United States manufactured items that had been exported from the United States to Iraq under licenses issued by the Department of Commerce, and [established] that these items were used to further Iraq's chemical and nuclear weapons development and its missile delivery system development programs." He added, "the executive branch of our government approved 771 different export licenses for sale of dual -use technology to Iraq. I think that is a devastating record."

as it says that the U.S. never intentionally gave Saddam WMDs, they gave him materials in hopes that will benefit Iraq economical in return that Saddam would reject Soviet influence and go to America's side after the lose of Iran during the overthrow of the Shah. Saddam decided to use the materials for other purposes instead of economic benefit for his people.

Originally posted by Seekerof
Did Saddam possess poison chemical gasses or did he not, Souljah?
If he was given those WMDs by the US, then did he not take possession of them? Did he not release them against the Iranians, Kurds, and Shi'ites?





seekerof

He sure did, dispersing the gas from American made crop spraying helicopters we sold him as well. What's really cute is that we were supporting Iraq and Iran at the same time while they were at war with each other, then using the money we made from that sickening ordeal to sponsor a terrorist movement in South America in an effort to corner the drug markets there. Shall I provide references and sources, or are you sufficiently informed on the Iran Contra scandal?

EDIT:
And just an FYI, botulism isn't used for Agricultural purposes, yet is also in a long list of Pathogens and other nasties we sold Saddam.

[edit on 12-7-2005 by twitchy]

Originally posted by eazy_mas
in Turkey there are slaughter and nobody says anything

Good Point!



I guess if you are a Member of NATO you can do stuff like that, and dont have to answer to Nobody!

Originally posted by twitchy
He sure did, dispersing the gas from American made crop spraying helicopters we sold him as well. Shall I provide references and sources, or are you sufficiently informed on the Iran Contra scandal?

give me the info where it says that he used American made helicopters as platforms to diperse the gas on the Kurds please?

I suppose that the bottom line here is that we all know that Saddam's lawyer is bunk. Is that something we can all agree upon or is there still doubt?




seekerof

Lets get this straight!......Saddam was and still is a mad man. He killed anyone and everyone he took a dislike to and even killed people for entertainment.

One of his favorite punishment's for those he classed as traitors, was to take the children of those he suspected and throw them to 2 lions he kept in a small arena near to Baghdad International Airport (Saddam International Airport). He would make the parents watch as the lions ripped their children to pieces, hold the parents for a week or so and then kill them as well.

As for the WMD debate - Both US and UK intelligence services backed Saddam in the Iran/Iraq war. It is not beyond the realms of fantasy to suspect that the US gave Saddam a limited supply of nerve agent to tip the war in Iraq's favour. It also allowed the US/UK Military to observe the effects of nerve agent (any ex military guys remember the video's they showed us???) when used on a "modern day" battlefield.

Remember the US wanted to teach the Irainians a good lesson, after the the over throw of the Shar and the occupation of the US Embassy.

Its a shame that Saddam was taken alive (a purely political move to appease Muslims living in the West) as I do not see any way on earth that he will face the death penalty. Instead he will be incarcerated and be an inspiration for ever bloody fanatic who is looking for a "Cause".

Just my ramblings......but there you have them!

BillyTheCat

Relax souljah...
the reason this idiot lawyer is bringing this up is because he isn't so dumb

he will unmask the connections that deltaboy is denying...

it is the chewbacca USscrewed up defense that will just make the US look bad everytime they have to "prove" that Saddam had WMD and poison gas at that time...

ie: prosecuting laywer " we know he had gas at that time because we sold it to him thru our secret CIA connections... oops...."

not to shabby, considering they had no defense to begin with...

Won't hold up in court, LazarusTheLong.
In fact, it will be found to be irrelevant, as to who or whom gave or sold Iraq/Saddam WMD materials. The point is that he possessed them, and used them. The defense's position is bunk and it will be shown to be so.





seekerof

Exactly. It wouldn't hold up, like Seeker pointed out.

The fact of the matter is that Saddam CHOSE, by his WILL, to use that gas. The Reagan Administration didn't force him. Thereby allowing Saddam to have full guilt for the incidents. End of story.

Why, oh why, is the U.S. always the devil, hmm? But hey, you can all say what you want, tomorrow I'll be out there defending all your rights to sit behind your computer in your comfortable chairs and make ignorant remarks about "freedom", "free will", and where blame is to lie whenever anything happens.

-wD

Oh, by the way..if Saddam's lawyer is admitting Saddam had WMD, does that not justify the basis of Bush Jr.'s waged war? That was his claim - that Saddam had or does have WMD - and Saddam's lawyer is admitting it.

So, if he did have WMD, then why do people still deny this? Even his lawyer said so. =/

-wD

Originally posted by twitchy

He sure did, dispersing the gas from American made crop spraying helicopters we sold him as well.

If I sell you a hammer, it's not my fault if you beat someone to death with it.

How come all the sudden Saddam is a freakin' sweetheart? I get the same chuckle from what amounts to Saddam supporting as I do when the ultra-conservatives act like Bush is a damn humanitarian.