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Originally posted by Nygdan
*snip*
Golfie
Hypothetically....If Pike was affiliated with the KKK, does that make Masonry or even more The SJ Scottish Rite afiliated?
Doesn't really matter. THe question at hand is "Was Albert Pike a member of the KKK". So far we've seen a picture that seems to support that statement, and we've seen that pike, at the time that the KKK was around, was advocating for an order of white brotherhood, and everyone agrees that he was a racist. Seems like the pendulum is leaning torwards Pike being in the KKK, he'd certainly fit in, regardless of the group also being concerned about yankee despots.
What would constitute reasonable evidence for him being a member of the KKK?
Originally posted by Eudaimonia
Any sane man would turn their back if being asked to be a mason, especially when there is a disturbing and OBVIOUS link with Masonry, the KKK, and Satanism.
Originally posted by sebatwerk
I implied no such thing. If it can be proven real, I would believe it. The only thing I have explicitly stated in this entire argument is that, as far as I have ever known, there is NO proof whatsoever to link Pike to the KKK.
Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
They then play games in order to justify their views. This is what I call re-enforcement of IGNORANCE via Fear - a Tactic that is decidedly favored by the Fear-Mongering, Pro-Ignorance, Fundamentalist Wing of "Christianity". I propose that this backwards way of thinking is HARDLEY Christian at all - that this is in-fact the REAL Phallacy!
Originally posted by eudaimonia
In short, just about any book you can find about the original KKK. Tell
you friend that many Klan leaders were also Free Masons and that in the
1920's half the Free Masons in the USA were also Klansmen. They are the ones who committed most of the lawless activities."
Originally posted by sebatwerk
Um, he knows what he's talking about far more than you do! You think Pike's klan affiliation is a fact! You think you're above logic and reason, so that you don't have to prove Pike's affiliation before stating it as fact! Who's the arrogant one?!
Originally posted by Osirisrisen
Let me say for the record that I am not saying Pike's affiliation with the Klan is a fact.
The truth of the matter is that I could care less. I'm passionate about many things, but that is not one of them.
I'm saying that it can't be proven or disproven.
I am saying that the concept of him being affiliated with this organization is not too far in left field given the climate of the times.
I don't believe it is a reflection of Freemasonry. I believe that any reasonable person will agree that you have good and bad people wherever you go regardless of race, religion, etc.
Originally posted by Osirisrisen
I am saying that the concept of him being affiliated with this organization is not too far in left field given the climate of the times.
I don't believe it is a reflection of Freemasonry. I believe that any reasonable person will agree that you have good and bad people wherever you go regardless of race, religion, etc.
Originally posted by Centiment
But the fact that they are prove that masonry is a failing system as far as creating a moral fraternity.
Who want to take oath with a pseudo-"brother" who's in fact your worst enemy with a smile ?
Originally posted by sebatwerk
OK, well in this case I would agree with you. You just came off differently, to me, in your last post. Nobody ever said that it would be IMPOSSIBLE for Pike to be affiliated with the KKK, only that there is no proof to suggest this.
Originally posted by eudaimonia
Either you're intentionally avoiding the information I layed out here or you just won't accept the notion of his involvement
EVEN IF there is undeniable documented proof that he was.
Why are you so resistant to the facts?
I just provided here all that you needed to know that does SUGGEST and indeed PROVE his affiliation with the KKK.
You simply won't accept their sources where they get this information, you think it's biased, manipulated, and anti-masonic hate speech.
There's many articles that ARE CREDIBLE and NON-CONSPIRATORIAL that leads one to make a logical conclusion that Pike was a KKK member. The question is whether you want to accept the fact or not.
Everything for you is highly questionable and totally unbelievable unless there is HARDCORE PHYSICAL PROOF in your hands that says so.
Not true at all. Legitimate sources are fine...hate-sites and rumor-mongers aren't.
You can't be convinced, no matter what anybody says and no matter what sources are being used.
masonicinfo.com is not the only source of information you know? there's many websites that aren't officially owned by masons but at least they back up their claims with large amounts of research.
You could disagree with their findings, but it doesn't make it untrue and it doesn't make their findings "unsupported".
Originally posted by ancientofdays33
You really need to do your research...
Just because a book or encyclopaedia is published by a company who stood the test of time does not mean it is valid Books are sold for MONEY!
Osirisrisen
What exactly is your point?
My point was to shed some light on your character.
becuase it is obvious the only reason he is defending Pike is becuase he was a Mason. He is adamantly arguing a moot point.
Golfie
My point was that it didn't matter if Pike was a member or not. It does not or should not reflect on the group as a whole.
edudamonia
In short, just about any book you can find about the original KKK
eudamonia
Either you're intentionally avoiding the information I layed out here
There's many articles that ARE CREDIBLE and NON-CONSPIRATORIAL that leads one to make a logical conclusion that Pike was a KKK member.
You can't be convinced, no matter what anybody says and no matter what sources are being used
You could disagree with their findings, but it doesn't make it untrue and it doesn't make their findings "unsupported".
Osirisrisen But the fact that they are prove that masonry is a failing system
as far as creating a moral fraternity.
Who want to take oath with a pseudo-"brother" who's in fact
your worst enemy with a smile ?
Originally posted by eudaimonia
Either you're intentionally avoiding the information I layed out here or you just won't accept the notion of his involvement EVEN IF there is undeniable documented proof that he was.
Why are you so resistant to the facts?
I just provided here all that you needed to know that does SUGGEST and indeed PROVE his affiliation with the KKK.
You simply won't accept their sources where they get this information, you think it's biased, manipulated, and anti-masonic hate speech.
There's many articles that ARE CREDIBLE and NON-CONSPIRATORIAL that leads one to make a logical conclusion that Pike was a KKK member.
The question is whether you want to accept the fact or not. Everything for you is highly questionable and totally unbelievable unless there is HARDCORE PHYSICAL PROOF in your hands that says so.
there's many websites that aren't officially owned by masons but at least they back up their claims with large amounts of research. You could disagree with their findings, but it doesn't make it untrue and it doesn't make their findings "unsupported".
Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
First of all why are there FOUR "K" on the bottom?
Originally posted by wiggy
Well, EVERY Klansman claims to be a god fearing christian, so take that as you will. There are more Christian Klansmen, than Freemason Klansmen ( Freemasonry is not a religion, but used here for comparison)