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Proof Albert Pike Affliated with KKK?

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posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 04:17 AM
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Originally posted by sebatwerk
Can you find any evidence that Albert Pike was affiliated with the KKK? No one else has been able to...


Isn't google fun?

Here sebatwerk, read it and weep:

Educational, Historical Study Of The Ku Klux Klan

And no, it's not a conspiracy site. When you have also the likes of Aleister Crowley in the mix, who's a mason, a satanist, and a KKK member, it puts Freemasonry in a very very poor light. In fact, I don't see how anyone would want to be part of Freemasonry when characters such as Crowley and Pike were influencing masonry ideology very heavily. Even up until this day, masons admire the works of Pike. Probably because they haven't been told the truth yet on who he really is and who he was affiliated with.

More on Crowley:

Infamous Occultist & Satanist

Fact Sheet on Crowley

Stop being in denial seb, these are the facts.

So yeah, Albert Pike did in fact join the KKK. End of story.

Anyone interested in joining Freemasonry better WATCH OUT, and I mean that sincerely with all my heart and soul because I'm noticing how ATS Masons like sebatwerk are deepy confused and deceived...and painting this picture of Masonry as if it's full of hope and pureness for mankind.

Total BS.

Any sane man would turn their back if being asked to be a mason, especially when there is a disturbing and OBVIOUS link with Masonry, the KKK, and Satanism.

Wake up seb, you're living in darkness.

Edit: Title.

[edit on 12-7-2005 by intrepid]




posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 07:32 AM
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That's hardly am unbiased or trustworthy site. The KKK is well known to claim
many prominent figures as thier own, who never had any involvement.

Masonicinfo.com on the matter:
www.masonicinfo.com...

Here's a couple more objective histories:
www.multied.com...

www.answers.com...

It's interesting to note that the 2 above don't even make mention of the KKK.

as far as Crowley goes

From Masonicinfo.com
Aleister Crowley - "The Great Beast" - Masonry's detractors make much of the supposed Masonic membership of this individual whose claims to immoral behavior are the antithesis of all that Freemasonry holds dear. Their charges are buttressed by a popular photograph of Crowley in regalia purporting to be a 33rd Degree Scottish Rite Mason. What's the truth?

In these days of copyright protection, it's hard to understand how multiple groups could all claim the same name but such is the history surrounding Freemasonry as other organizations took its name and bastardized its concepts. Sometimes, regrettably, this occurred when someone who had previously been regularly made a Mason would decide - for whatever reason - that they could improve on things. Crowley joined a French Grand Lodge which was unrecognized by 'mainstream' Freemasonry and, in fact, was apparently quite miffed when he failed to be acknowledged as a Mason by those in London, his home at the time. Subsequently, he was 'given' a 33rd Scottish Rite degree while traveling in Mexico. Again, the organization which gave him that degree was a spurious one, totally unrecognized by other Scottish Rite Bodies throughout the world.

In fact, as an interesting side note to history, Crowley's 33rd Degree had come from the same expelled Mason that began a thriving industry of duping people through the purchase of degrees by mail and which ultimately resulted in the successful prosecution of the very first legal action for mail fraud in the United States. A further side note is that Crowley's organization - the OTO - was founded by a person who had joined Freemasonry but was a member for less than a couple of years before being dropped from the rolls. You can read a more complete history of the OTO and its pretended connections with Freemasonry here.


He was never a recognized Mason.

When I get time I'll get more sources.



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 08:31 AM
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Originally posted by eudaimonia
Anyone interested in joining Freemasonry better WATCH OUT, and I mean that sincerely with all my heart and soul ...


That's right! Those sneaky Masons will blow up your toilet!



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 08:51 AM
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Originally posted by eudaimonia
So yeah, Albert Pike did in fact join the KKK. End of story.


Even if this was true, it would not be a reflection of Masonry but rather that of a misguided individual.





busily prepares an iTERD(Inter-Toilet Explosive Repercussion Device)



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 10:05 AM
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Originally posted by eudaimonia
Isn't google fun?
Here sebatwerk, read it and weep:


Yep. You sure showed ol' Seb, didn't you. Just "Google" it up and presto! It must be TRUE!

Funny though, the one thing I didn't see on that site....DOCUMENTATION. (Without which all else is hear-say) I can say (and even put it on a web-site that Google will find) that YOU are the Grand Wizard of the KKK. I guess that'd make it true, huh?

You should weep...not Sebatwerk (or anyone else interested in the truth)



And no, it's not a conspiracy site. When you have also the likes of Aleister Crowley in the mix, who's a mason, a satanist, and a KKK member, it puts Freemasonry in a very very poor light.


Been said over and over...Crowley was NEVER a Mason. He seemed to believe he was (and people like you and your ilk seem to believe that too) but his name was NEVER on the rolls of a legitimate Lodge.

Do some research (get away from your computer to do it too...Google isn't the ONLY answer) ...although the "scholars" of today seem to think it is for some sad reason.



In fact, I don't see how anyone would want to be part of Freemasonry when characters such as Crowley and Pike were influencing masonry ideology very heavily. Even up until this day, masons admire the works of Pike. Probably because they haven't been told the truth yet on who he really is and who he was affiliated with.


Same 'ol song and dance. We who ARE Masons, who DO legitimate research know nothing, but you (armed with your Google search-engine) are a freakin' expert. That's funnier than the silly stuff Mrs Necros says.




More on Crowley:


Crowley was a fruit-cake, plain and simple.



Stop being in denial seb, these are the facts.


Undocument "facts" Wow! I'd love to see a term-paper you wrote. I'll bet your English teacher pulled his/her hair out.



So yeah, Albert Pike did in fact join the KKK. End of story.


Only in your eyes. As Sebatwerk said, no one has come up with proof. Plenty of people SAY he did and plenty of people say he didn't. No one...NO ONE has EVER produced ONE document (I'm talking about a legitimate paper document, i.e. KKK record) that proves he was a member.

Certainly it's possible that he was...MANY people were, but no one can say categorically that he was a member because real proof doesn't seem to exist (at least no one's produced it...not even you or your "Google" web-site)



Anyone interested in joining Freemasonry better WATCH OUT, and I mean that sincerely with all my heart and soul because I'm noticing how ATS Masons like sebatwerk are deepy confused and deceived...and painting this picture of Masonry as if it's full of hope and pureness for mankind.
Total BS.


[YAWN]



Any sane man would turn their back if being asked to be a mason, especially when there is a disturbing and OBVIOUS link with Masonry, the KKK, and Satanism.


Any intelligent, thinking person could see right through that load of garbage.



Wake up seb, you're living in darkness.


It's obvious why you list your mood as "frustrated"


[edit on 12-7-2005 by senrak]



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 10:26 AM
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LMAO@ "but you (armed with your Google search-engine) are a freakin' expert."



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by eudaimonia
Here sebatwerk, read it and weep:


If this is indeed true, then you can surely provide some solid facts or evidence, right? All you have is a website that "says so", God only knows where they got their information. You should think things over a little further before posting heresay and nonsense.



Anyone interested in joining Freemasonry better WATCH OUT


Why's that? I'm sure MANY masons have been in the KKK, but how does this affect anyone joining the Craft today?



Wake up seb, you're living in darkness.


You're a joke.

[edit on 12-7-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 11:53 AM
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thats why jeff goldblum hasnt been in too many movies lately because with just a laptop he is devastating, but with the power of google and a laptop jeff goldblum could take over the universe.



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 12:10 PM
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Do some research (get away from your computer to do it too...Google isn't the ONLY answer) ...although the "scholars" of today seem to think it is for some sad reason.



I get so tired of Luddites trashing the internet. Please, the internet is better than anything, its your own personal "Carnegie Library" with just one little modem. It your own little "XXX Theater", if you know what I mean, someday their will be no need for the waste of trees (newspapers/books) it will all be on the internet. And i'm not trying to make this personal or anything, but you Luddites out their need to think again....



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 12:12 PM
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Originally posted by sebatwerk
If this is indeed true, then you can surely provide some solid facts or evidence, right? All you have is a website that "says so", God only knows where they got their information. You should think things over a little further before posting heresay and nonsense.


Here's another piece of evidence. A picture is worth a thousand words, right?





Why's that? I'm sure MANY masons have been in the KKK, but how does this affect anyone joining the Craft today?


So are you seriously saying with a straight face that it's okay to learn from individuals who were members of the KKK?

I think we all know what the KKK was all about. And it wasn't about who made the yummiest cakes for grandma.

Did you even check the KKK article on wikipedia?

A few disturbing photos there that I won't even post here but the VERY FIRST LINE that defines KKK is:

"Ku Klux Klan (KKK) is a term used to refer to a number of past and present fraternal organizations in the United States that have advocated white supremacy"

Do I HAVE to mention their history on the lynching?

Don't give me the line, "Oh so he's guilty by association, yeah very convincing." - Well, it most certainly is enough evidence for me to say that any man involved in the teachings of the KKK is not exactly someone to look up to and admire.

Get off your high horse and be humble enough to accept this reality.


You're a joke.


Freemasonry is a joke.


Cug

posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by eudaimonia
More on Crowley:

Infamous Occultist & Satanist

Fact Sheet on Crowley

Stop being in denial seb, these are the facts.

So yeah, Albert Pike did in fact join the KKK. End of story


What does Aleister Crowley have to do with Pike and the KKK?



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by ghostdog007

I get so tired of Luddites trashing the internet. Please, the internet is better than anything, its your own personal "Carnegie Library" with just one little modem.

No its not. The internet has no editorial oversight nor authority to it. Things like the Encyclopedia Britanica were so popular and so well used because they were very well researched and had stood the test of time. 'The Internet', and in this topic we're tlaking about Google, has none of those characterisitics. Besides, google is just a search engine. It presents bald fiction as historical fact at times. The internet has good resources in it, but search engines aren't resources.

I can certianly understand what you are getting at, any resource thats put online is available for everyone, and things like the Perseus Project and Electronic Scholarly Publishing are great examples of that. But 'Google' isn't a resource. Its just a search engine, it can't be 'Authoratative' like Ency.Brit., especially becuase anything you find with supposedly respectable google can be found with any other supposedly less reputable search engines.

The internet really demonstrates that 'just because its in a book, doesn't mean its true'. This is a great example. A book on Pike and the KKK would normally be required to have a bibliography and supporting documents and the like, but a webpage, we don't even begin to demand it of it. And as such, that webpage is just a bunch of claims, by the KKK no less.

If edamonia accepts their statement that Pike was a member, does he also accept the statement that Blacks are inferior to Whites, made by the exact same people with just as much support? And does anyone note the irony of trying to slam masonry but in doing so accepting the KKK?



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 12:43 PM
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What is the best evidence from this KKK site that demonstrates that Pike was a KKKer? That was something that should've been presented, and thats what everyone should be discussing, the evidence presented and how it stands up to scrutiny.



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by eudaimonia
Here's another piece of evidence. A picture is worth a thousand words, right?


And you REALLY believe that this picture is real? "Evidence" for Pike's involvement with satanism and KKK has been manufactured and forged MANY times. Historical scholars have been saying for YEARS that there's no proof of Pike's involvement with the KKK. I HIGHLY doubt they all just convenitently ignored this picture or those artifacts.



So are you seriously saying with a straight face that it's okay to learn from individuals who were members of the KKK?


Even IF Pike was in the KKK, it's known fact that in his later years, after moving to Arkansas, he repented for his racism and even helped to establish one of the first black masonic lodges. It's no mystery Pike was a racist for most of his life, but I highly doubt he was in the KKK.



I think we all know what the KKK was all about. And it wasn't about who made the yummiest cakes for grandma.

"Ku Klux Klan (KKK) is a term used to refer to a number of past and present fraternal organizations in the United States that have advocated white supremacy"

Do I HAVE to mention their history on the lynching?


The KKK was not always the organization it is known for today. The original founders all left the KKK because of the organization's detraction from the ideals it was founded upon. So, again, even IF Pike was in the KKK, it was not the KKK you now know of.



Get off your high horse and be humble enough to accept this reality.


This is no reality. You have failed to provide any convincing piece of evidence. What, a picture? Do you have ANY idea how many people have forged and falsified evidence to "prove" that Pike was a satanist, KKK member, etc etc??? I know better than to believe a picture provided on a biased website.



Freemasonry is a joke.


I think we know where you stand then, eh? Is your beef with Pike, or Freemasonry? Don't hide your bias behind accusations of one prominent mason. If you don't like Freemasonry, come out and say why. Don't mask your hatred under false pretenses.

[edit on 12-7-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by eudaimonia
Here's another piece of evidence. A picture is worth a thousand words, right?

Same site, same lack of credibility. I'm sure many Masons would like to say that Martin Luther King Jr. was a Mason, unfortunately saying it doesn't make it so.




So are you seriously saying with a straight face that it's okay to learn from individuals who were members of the KKK?

I can't speak for seb but for my part, I don't believe that's what he's saying.
Given the era in question MANY were KKK members, this includes many misguided INDIVIDUALS such as preachers,
Christians, school teachers, auto mechanics, Sunday school teachers, poets, authors, musicians, bankers, politicians(no surprise), lawyers(also no surprise), etc....

It's an unfortunate time in history. If you're convinced that Albert Pike was a member of the KKK and are willing to cast the same shadow
over Masonry as a result, then it's only logical that you take a look at ALL of the other groups from which members may have been connected to the KKK.




Well, it most certainly is enough evidence for me to say that any man involved in the teachings of the KKK is not exactly someone to look up to and admire.

Well I'll have to say that your requirements for evidence are far weaker than mine.



Freemasonry is a joke.

I suppose you've learned this from Google?


Cug

posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by senrak

Crowley was a fruit-cake, plain and simple.


I beg to differ, that is your personal feeling, not a fact.



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by Cug

Originally posted by eudaimonia
More on Crowley:

Infamous Occultist & Satanist

Fact Sheet on Crowley

Stop being in denial seb, these are the facts.

So yeah, Albert Pike did in fact join the KKK. End of story


What does Aleister Crowley have to do with Pike and the KKK?


Alot. Well, besides him being a mason and a part of the same despicable klan, Crowley and Pike shared the same ideas and principles.


It is also important to point out that many Freemasons derive a large percentrage of their knowledge and tradition from The Knights Templars.

As wikipedia states:

"The Templars play strongly in both the ritual and foundation of various branches of modern Freemasonry."

And as you'll soon find out here:

Were the Knights Templar a Satanic organisation?

There is strong evidence suggesting that the Knights Templars were involved in devil worshiping.

It's all there, I don't think I'm wrong in making these connections. They all fit so nicely together don't they?



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 01:09 PM
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Originally posted by eudaimonia
Alot. Well, besides him being a mason and a part of the same despicable klan, Crowley and Pike shared the same ideas and principles.


You are seriously confused. Crowley was a member of the KKK? He was a Brit! Please!

Also Crowley was not a Mason, as has ALREADY been pointed out in NUMEROUS threads on ATS.



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 01:15 PM
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Originally posted by Cug

Originally posted by senrak

Crowley was a fruit-cake, plain and simple.


I beg to differ, that is your personal feeling, not a fact.



Well, OK. He had absolutely NO MORALS and proudly admitted it. He proclaimed himself "the world's wickedest man" and admitted being a drug and sex "fiend" He called himself "Baphomet" and "the Beast-666" One of his poems (if you can call it that) includes the lines:

My nostrils sniff the luxury
Of flesh decaying, bowels torn
Of festive worms, like Venus, born
Of entrails foaming like the sea.


Yep. You're right. It is MY PERSONAL OPINION that Crowley was a fruit-cake. A dreg of society.



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 01:18 PM
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Originally posted by sebatwerk
And you REALLY believe that this picture is real? "Evidence" for Pike's involvement with satanism and KKK has been manufactured and forged MANY times. Historical scholars have been saying for YEARS that there's no proof of Pike's involvement with the KKK. I HIGHLY doubt they all just convenitently ignored this picture or those artifacts.


haha oh seb, you crack me up. Should've expected this kind of response. Of course you're going to immediately trash this picture as if it was fabricated by some "ANTI-MASON/KKK" back in those time so people like ME who want to make a Pike and KKK connection will be mocked and be thrown in the pit with other conspiracy thinkers.

How can you seriously say with 100% certainty that this picture was forged? Is anybody qualified here to confirm that this picture is authentic? PLEASE DO SO. I doubt very much that the website owner would post forged pictures with full knowledge that it is. That would mean many of his photos and wikipedias would also be in the possibilities of forgery.

That's absurd. Get real.




Even IF Pike was in the KKK, it's known fact that in his later years, after moving to Arkansas, he repented for his racism and even helped to establish one of the first black masonic lodges. It's no mystery Pike was a racist for most of his life, but I highly doubt he was in the KKK.


But he was, that's where you're mistaken.



The KKK was not always the organization it is known for today. The original founders all left the KKK because of the organization's detraction from the ideals it was founded upon. So, again, even IF Pike was in the KKK, it was not the KKK you now know of.


Oh really? Can you prove that the KKK that we all know and despise was not the same one Albert Pike was in?



This is no reality. You have failed to provide any convincing piece of evidence. What, a picture? Do you have ANY idea how many people have forged and falsified evidence to "prove" that Pike was a satanist, KKK member, etc etc??? I know better than to believe a picture provided on a biased website.


Again with the forgery. Will someone on ATS try to authentic this picture? Even though I already know it isn't necessary to do so. This is to please sebatwerk and other disbelievers.



I think we know where you stand then, eh? Is your beef with Pike, or Freemasonry? Don't hide your bias behind accusations of one prominent mason. If you don't like Freemasonry, come out and say why. Don't mask your hatred under false pretenses.


Let's stick with the topic, not my feelings on freemasonry.





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