I disagree with abortion.....Unless the child is going to suffer a illness that will cause it to be in pain the resat of its life..
On the point about parents having different opinions
This was the case for my parents...My mother was 14 my dad 17 when i was concived ...My mum didnt want a child and was to young to look after one...she wanted an abortion but my dad did not.....This caused many arguments...to cut a long story short!!!
She agreed to have me...but when i was born she felt no bond with me....she could not cope...this caused my parents to split up and for me to go into care from the age of 6 weeks old....
Im glad i was born ... i have a good life and a family
i now talk to my mum and she is more like a friend
she said allthough she wanted a abortion she is glad she did not....It was hard in the begining
My point is there are many people who want children
so your unwanted baby could be a gift for someone else

I think look at the other options first...

Well i am the kind of guy who says "it up to you, if u wanna kill somone then go ahead" but if it was my g/f i would convince otherwise .

I have copied this from another thread that I posted it in:

O.K. here I go.... First off I will tell ya, I am pro-life. I have heard the argument about rape, let me tell ya the unborne child in you didn't rape you. Two wrongs don't make a right. I guess I am somewhat extreme though, I don't kill anything I am not planning to eat. (Exception, someone or something is endangering me, my family or friends... They or it may as well put the head between their legs, grab their ankles and kiss their _____ goodbye.)
But back to the point, I really didn't get on here to give my views but rather some interesting points that were brought up in my "Age of Enlightenment" class back in college.
One thing brought up was, A woman is about to have an abortion and at the last minute changes her mind, her daughter is borne and 25 years later discovers the cure for AIDS and saves millions. If she had the abortion, in a way she would be responsible for millions of deaths. (Deep isn't it) lol
Another possibility that was brought up was that a woman was allowed 1 abortion, it was immediately followed by a complete histerectomy (misspelled?) so that it would never happen again.
Like I said these aren't my ideas, but I thought they may have some relevance in this conservation.


OK here we go. I hope no one gets mad here but I'm going to tell it like I see it!! First off we shouldn't call it abortion, we should call it premeditated murder, because that is what it is.
It affects society the same way anyone else getting killed does. That person is no longer here to make their impact on society.
I hate hearing the argument its the womans body. That's like saying you are in my house so its OK to kill you. Another impact on society is how can we tell our kids that murder is wrong when it is protected by the courts.
I'm not speaking from a religious stand point I am speaking from a moral one. MURDER IS MURDER!
It doesn't matter if the child is only 2 weeks old (Still in the womb), 5 years old or 35 years old. The fact that people can murder children and it is protected by the courts shows that as a society we have alot and I mean ALOT to learn.
I hear about late term abortions, and people say the children can't survive. Let me tell ya my first daughter was born at 26 weeks. 26 weeks, that is still borderline second trimester. People have abortions this late in their pregnancy. She is now 6, (knock on wood) has never had any health problems and is the second tallest child in her class.
Women say I should have a choice, well I agree and you do. Have sex or Don't. There's your choice.
I know some of you are already getting ready to bring up rape. I can go on about that too but I won't right now. If you "accidentally" get pregnant and you don't want the child give it up for adoption, don't kill it.

This is alot like the AIDS epidemic. I can fix that problem too. Don't sleep with everyone that walks. I mean hell its an STD, its not you can walk down the street and someone sneezes and boom you have AIDS.
Geeze.
Sorry but I have listened to about all I can on these subjects. Let's worry about things that are difficult to fix. Not problems that can be resolved by simply not having sex.
Sorry all but like I said I'm really "SICK" and tired of people killing children and then using its my body as an argument for it and then the law, as it usually does, persecuting the victims and protecting the criminals.
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Be Cool
K_OS

just out of interest, how many of you pro-lifer's also support the death penalty?

asala, I'm glad you're with us as well. Good to be alive isn't it. Good times and bad times happen to all of us. I'm a parent of a child that was stricken with asthma from the age of 6 months. All my resources and time have been dedicated to him. I guess you could say the misses and I gave a up a life of material possesions for 5 years of trials and hardships but we came through it with hard work, priorities and in return, we received a life that has made us richer than money ever could have.

Originally posted by arc
just out of interest, how many of you pro-lifer's also support the death penalty?

Depends on what the offence id realy.

I was concieved almost around the same time Roe vs wade took effect. My mom was 18 years old. My dad 25. he split, didnt want the kid, ect. So, my idiot dope head hippie mother spit me out 9 months later, and because she was an idiot who should have had an abortion in the first place, i suffered through an unstable, hideous childhood that i often prefer to forget. She had no business having me, but she did. I know many other kids who felt the same way about thier moms. Again, my dad was no where to be found. Ironically hes anti abortion. #ing hypocrite.

Anyway, the question of, am i glad to be born is irrelevant. If I had not been born, then I wouldnt even care, i would have never existed. I wuld have no awareness, no klnowldge. But because i did exist, I did have to suffer because someone who had no biz having kids popped me out. I paid for the foolishness of my mothers descision.

The question of adoption is unrealitic. if a woman wants to have the kid and give it to a family, fine, thats her choice. But if she chooses to abort, then she should be allowed to. I really dont consider abortion murder, because i am nt convinced that a fetus is human. Its like steel becomes a car, but when its being pounded out, tis not a car yet, thus, stealing a peice of steel does not amount to car theft. Thus, i can hardly consider the fetus a living breathing human entity, its only a potential human.

Mind you nature commits abortion too. Thats what miscarriages are. If the woman is not gonna take care of the kid, then she should be allowed to stop the misery before it starts. If you think some idiot unstable 18 year old is killing her child, then consider it a mercy killing.

Theres always the double edged sword. Birth control should continue to be taught and made available, because an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Unfortunately, too many idiots abound will not use birthcontrol, thus, plan B is needed.

Originally posted by arc
just out of interest, how many of you pro-lifer's also support the death penalty?

I don't really support the death penalty but I think there are cases where we have monsters who remain dangerous to the public that warrant such action..but I hope I never have to do it. Everything in life is a game of priorities..so whats more important..a criminal whos made his/her decision to commit an act full-well knowing it could result in this punishment or an innocent child which has not been allowed to make any decisions and has been denied its God given and constitutional rights? We have people that would allow a human infant to be killed but march in force to protect a man-eating shark. Contradiction and lack of priorities...

arc, myself, like abortion, support the death penalty under extreme circumstances.

(Personally, I have always thought heinous criminals, that would otherwise be executed, should somehow be banished from society – dropped off on a deserted island or something like that. Gone from our prisons, gone from society but not executed. )

Skadi, I agree with you. if your dad talks the talk then he needs to walk the walk. In my opinion, betrayal of trust is also the double edged sword. What he did was no better than if you had been aborted. Things happen for a reason and we must be responsible for our actions in life reguardless of how difficult it is or how inconvenient it makes it. I'm not preaching something I don't know anything about. I've been through it and I've been days without sleep sitting beside my son's bed with a nebulizer at night and working during the day but he came through it and when he puts his arms around my neck everynight before he goes to bed, its worth more than any amount of money or status.

First, the thing is not alive. It is no more alive than a rock is alive. It doesn't even have organs or bones until later on.

Second, it is a woman's choice. I am not going to tell a woman what she can and can't do with her body. No more than I can tell them not to pierce their lips or tounge or ears or eyebrows and so forth.

Third, it isn't alive!!! It isn't even the size of a baseball when normally aborted, how is it alive? Unless you listen to the church [hahaha] which says semen is alive, it isn't alive.

Fourth, while yes should use protection, but guess what? I am a pill baby. Know what that means? Contraception didn't work! You can use a condom, pill, and spermicide and still have a kid.

Fifth, do you want another 14 year old raped and molested by daddy to have a kid? Do you want any rape victim who will see their rapist in the child to have it? Do you want a 15 year old who will just dump it in a trash can after it was born to have it? You know what they call those? Murder! For when born, it is alive, before when less alive than a mass of virus cells it is abortion, for it isn't alive yet.

Sixth, know whats funny? Most pro-life are pro-death penalty and pro-blowing up a hospital that has a sectionthat caries out abortion. Sure, when they do that they kill everyone in the building, the people their for an ear ache, stomach pains, after school volunteers, the burned victims wing, the physical therapy wing, and everything and everybody else in the hospital. Funny, kill a woman who is their to have an abortion, along with hundreds more who just happen to be at the same hospital. Good job on, wait, the bombing "killed" the fetus.

Never seen a pro-choice group blowing up a church on bingo night, have you? Also, pro-choice means CHOICE!!! Not you do this or you go to hell, you go to hell and you die like the pro-life people do. Choice means you don't have to, but if you need/want one, you can get one.

Anyways, Skadi, Arc, ummm, any other women? Wait, helen, if you ever need one, get it. I wouldn't want to have a kid today. Bush in power, economy down, unemployment up, terrorists flying planes into buildings, China and other third world countries creating and spreading new diseases, school funding down, lots of bad things today. But if you want it, keep it. Raise it.

Edited part: Also, a man telling a woman she can't abort is like a woman telling a man he can't masturbate. And if he still masturbates she cuts his dick off or a group of women get together and blow up a sperm bank. Doesn't make since, it is a woman's body, her choice.

[Edited on 22-8-2003 by James the Lesser]

james a fetus may actually only be 2 inches long at 12 weeks old but it is pretty recogisable as a baby

I appreciate the support of a woman's choice but there is no denying that it is a life that is being ended, and any woman who goes through with a termination needs to have that stressed to her. If she's been blase about birth control or thinks she can use abortion over and over again, then hopefully it will wake her up to her actions.

Any woman with a consciense who for her personal reasons decides that abortion is her only choice will suffer for it without the condemnation of anyone else. Maybe not directly afterwards - relief and having a sense of control back kick in. But later on - it comes....

In my case 9 years on - I'm now stable enough psychologically and physically to actually cope with pregnancy itself as well as the idea of having a baby. And its now that the awareness of what I went through is finally hitting me - everytime I hold someone else's baby, everytime I admire a colleague's ultra sound pics, everytime I read one of these threads. Some of it is guilt but most of it is sadness, that I let myself get so screwed up that I had to deprive someone else of a chance at life, and therefore cast a shadow over the rest of my own. Being indirectly accused of being a murderess, cold hearted child killer and promiscuous careless whore doesn't really bother me so much - not one of you on here know me and you certainly haven't lived my life or watched me fall down time and time again. But if its any comfort to you - yes I'm getting my payback

for me, that's up to the woman to decide. In other words, legally, I think it should be a matter of choice...but with current restrictions. Personally though, as some have mentioned, with so many people willing to adopt babies, I would hope more would choose to carry to term....

Many different viewpoints.

Some say adopt. There are currently a million or so foster kids in the US needing a home. Add another million or so per year that have been aborted and who is going to take these?

This goes into the judgement part. We cannot and should not judge a reason why something is done. One cannot understand anothers reason for doing something.

This is an issue between mother and God only. All others should be excluded.

It's as simple as that.

Abortion is wrong...period. Bush has an anti-abortion platform but he talks more about war then helping the unborn. I question his true understanding and devotion to stopping the atrocity of abortion.

well I'm officially butting out of this topic as from now and taking my atrocious, murdering self with it. But I'll continue to watch both sides banging their heads against a brick wall - its a grey area and no one is going to win

Arc, true, no one will ever prove they are right, for no one will ever say they are wrong. Pro-life say they right because a book that has god ordering people to smash babies on rocks says abortion is wrong. While Pro-Choice say it is the person's choice, not right, but choice on wether or not to get one for it is the persons body. Should I be allowed to blow up a tatoo parlor because I belive it is wrong for the bible says defacing your body is wrong?

But still, answer me this someone, if it wrong to abort a baby, why to the pro-life people is it ok to kill the mother, the doctor, nurses, other patients not involved in the abortion, other doctors and nurses not involved with the abortion, someone who brought their kid in for a check up, someone waiting for a transplant donor, and three people brought in for their polio vaccine shots in a terrorist bombing, yet not ok for the mother to abort the mass of cells no more alive then a mass of pond weed is?

JamestheLesser..it is not a pro-life agenda to muder doctors, mothers, or anyone else. Its extremist who, if you will look up every now and then, inhabit both liberal and conservative aspects of these topics. Its no more right for a person to kill a doctor that performs abortion than it is for a person to endanger the lives of people on board a ship because it burns petrolium to power. As long as both are legal, this kind of extremist activity will be illegal but it doesn't keep either side from having an opinion on it. You say a male should not have an opinion on abortion and in the same sentence present one. Which is it?

arc, my heart goes out to you for your torment. At least you didn't take your decision lightly and realize what it meant. Maybe its time to forgive yourself and help other women who enter into such acts haphazardly to be more educated on what awaits them. Just a thought. You sound like a kind , caring, and decent woman who made a mistake. We all have. I certainly didn't mean for anything I wrote to hurt you. Its my insensitivity that will be my downfall, I'm sure. I don't know why I feel the way I do about children. Its certainly not a typical male trait but I think it should be.

Originally posted by Hyperspace
Abortion is wrong...period. Bush has an anti-abortion platform but he talks more about war then helping the unborn. I question his true understanding and devotion to stopping the atrocity of abortion.

I don't really think the societal and free-world problem is whether abortion is morally wrong or not. I think the problem lies in do we try to legislate our moral code in an area that is extremely personal.

I would think it would be easier to have the mindset that because you think something is morally wrong it should therefore be made illegal, if you were of a group of people (men) who it could never truly keep you from a choice.

I have a daughter who is 14. I think I am raising her in a manner that will help her make the right decisions. However, if my daughter were to make a mistake that led to her being pregnant, I would immediately take her to have an abortion. She is a minor, and as long as she is in my care, I will do what is best for HER. She has capabilities and endless goals to achieve. And I will do what helps her achieve them. And then I will stand before my Maker and I will suffer any condemnation that may be placed on my shoulders.

To me, it is a simple matter. If a fetus can be removed from a mother and survive as a healthy baby, there should be a law to protect that child. If a fetus cannot live on its own, and the mother so chooses to make this choice, that is between her and her Creator.

Something that causes great pain in people when discussing this issue is the inability to sympathize with a view or belief that you cannot accept as your own. If people could learn that RECONCILIATION is not required, but acceptance of differences is, the world (and this board a lot of times ) would be a lot more peaceful.

Its a living person. I cant kill you just because I dont want you or you interfer with my life.

Ah but think of what could be if you could...in the words of Nas "If I ruled the world"