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Hugo Chavez vs. America

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posted on Jul, 11 2005 @ 05:33 PM
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Hugo Chavez vs. America, I found this article on the CBN website it sounds like America is gaining another Sadam next door. I do not know much about American and South American politics but it sounds like a big story.

Is this all true or just hype from the media. Hugo looks like his bark is louder than his bite a bit like the new Iran leader, tell the public what they want to hear sort of thing. Imagine if this guy connects with the new Iran leader, they will be best friends with the same aim goals if America get too frisky with Iran politics.

Why is the world so Anti-American lately, every one dreams of taking them out, its just big talk and no action.

QUOTE:

CARACAS, Venezuela - His name is Hugo Chavez. He is the president of oil-rich Venezuela. Mr. Chavez has decided that America is his enemy, so he is building up his army. He has forged an alliance with Fidel Castro, and many think he is going to make trouble for the United States.

Chavez believes he is in a fight with the devil. But the devil that Chavez fights does not reside in Hell. Chavez believes that the devil resides in Washington



www.cbn.com...

[edit on 11-7-2005 by The time lord]




posted on Jul, 11 2005 @ 08:26 PM
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Hugo Chavez is a very interesting man. His friendship with Castro is not to the U.S. liking and some of his methods of governing are more towards the lines of socialism, imo a threat to the US's goal to spread democracy. He is also very critical of the war on terror and quite outspoken about it too.

Your source is limited to it's opinion of Mr. Chavez due to his stance on religion and running the country, I suggest reading up on him thru other sources before forming your opinion.

en.wikipedia.org...
news.bbc.co.uk...

I will be moving the thread to Political Figures
Please join the discussion there.

[edit on 7-11-2005 by worldwatcher]



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 09:41 AM
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"Christian" News sources, huh?

Chavez is a democratically elected leader, a rarity in that part of the world, who has been under constant threat of US lead coup.
If not for the oil, team Bush wouldn't bat an eye. As for Cuba, look to our allied nations for a much strong trade relationship than Venezuela.
Search ATS & Google "Otto Reich" & Venezuela......intersting read.
As for "Anti-Americanism" - we in the empire phase now....why wouldn't people be opposed to that!?!?



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 08:54 AM
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Chavez a "threat to democracy"!?

Oh, please, stop it, my sides are splitting.




posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 01:10 PM
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I can't imagine Chavez being much of a threat to anybody but his own people. His ramp up in the centralization of the nations oil industry raised alot of eyebrows but then it turns out that the state run oil company is "MISSING" billions of dollars. Missing as in it's not there, gone, it vanished. The Venezuelan's gov't controlled oil industry makes Enron look like a lemonaid stand accounting error. Chavez is just a reminder of why socialism stinks so bad. In an effort to "help" the people he's going to bankrupt the country and isolate it from it's biggest trade partners. Brilliant!



posted on Jul, 20 2005 @ 05:28 AM
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(sigh)
Hugo is really the mistery man. He's kept us all in suspense because like Fidel nobody knows if he's working for the US or if he really means everything he's saying. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.



posted on Jul, 20 2005 @ 06:35 AM
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Originally posted by looking4truth
The Venezuelan's gov't controlled oil industry makes Enron look like a lemonaid stand accounting error.


- I'd love to see you back that claim up.


In an effort to "help" the people he's going to bankrupt the country and isolate it from it's biggest trade partners.


- So how come your mere speculation just ignores the part where almost everyone but the old ruling elite under the last lot was already bankrupt anyway?

.......and if they turn away from a bullying USA intent on overthrowing their duly and democratically eleceted government who but the US has themselves to blame?
What makes you think there isn't a world beyond the USA willing to trade with Venezuela?



posted on Jul, 20 2005 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by The time lord

Why is the world so Anti-American lately, every one dreams of taking them out, its just big talk and no action.

-snip-

Chavez believes he is in a fight with the devil. But the devil that Chavez fights does not reside in Hell. Chavez believes that the devil resides in Washington.


Chavez makes an interesting, and unfortuantely accurate observation. The actions of American government(s) have been like a runaway train since WWII...it catching up now as more and more people learn what has been happening around the world with the U.S.'s overt and covert shenanigans(sp), more about greed and powermongering than about helping people. I suggests you pick up a book called Confessions of an Economic Hitman by John Perkins. Watch this interview and documentary as well...will give you a good idea of what I'm talking about.

By the way...the U.S. is only interested in countries that have resources like oil:

John Perkins on Democracy Now!

The Secret Government Pts 1&2 with Bill Moyers



posted on Jul, 20 2005 @ 10:50 AM
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Originally posted by looking4truth
I can't imagine Chavez being much of a threat to anybody but his own people. His ramp up in the centralization of the nations oil industry raised alot of eyebrows but then it turns out that the state run oil company is "MISSING" billions of dollars. Missing as in it's not there, gone, it vanished. The Venezuelan's gov't controlled oil industry makes Enron look like a lemonaid stand accounting error. Chavez is just a reminder of why socialism stinks so bad. In an effort to "help" the people he's going to bankrupt the country and isolate it from it's biggest trade partners. Brilliant!


Threat to his own people? I'd say that he's helping those who can't help themselves...the poorest of the poor. Of course the minority of rich and corrupt in the country doesn't like that and it never flies with those who would like him to privatize the oil. He also won't accept money from the World Bank/IMF. Saddam wouldn't privatize the oil either...what does that tell you? Hugo's life is likely in danger - like Omar Torrijos and Jaime Roldos, who also tried to help their poor people. That tells me in my heart that he's a good guy.

Good Things Happening in Venezuela

[edit on 20/7/05 by AlwaysLearning]



posted on Jul, 20 2005 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by sminkeypinkey

Originally posted by looking4truth
The Venezuelan's gov't controlled oil industry makes Enron look like a lemonaid stand accounting error.


- I'd love to see you back that claim up.


In an effort to "help" the people he's going to bankrupt the country and isolate it from it's biggest trade partners.


- So how come your mere speculation just ignores the part where almost everyone but the old ruling elite under the last lot was already bankrupt anyway?

.......and if they turn away from a bullying USA intent on overthrowing their duly and democratically eleceted government who but the US has themselves to blame?
What makes you think there isn't a world beyond the USA willing to trade with Venezuela?


Why defend Chavez? Do you only read the rosy pictures about the man?

He's a military dictator under the geise of a democraticaly elected leader. Since coming to power he's weakened the judiciary, consolidated power for his government, used weak election laws to strip opponents of the ability to run against him or other members of his party, increased the size of the military dramaticly and tried to annex a huge section of Guyana (an independent soverign nation). Don't forget how he got his start in politics........................ by being a main conspirator in the 1992 military coup attempt against an elected leader.

Any attempt to criticize Chavez by people in Venezuela results in an accusation of corruption. The media can't do it. The other political parties can't do it. Hell, even if I, a foriegn citizen do it, I'm supporting corruption. What a joke. Why doesn't he just put on the silly hat and beard and get himself some cigars like his idol Fidel Castro.

As for other nations wanting to trade with Venezuela, well your right. Recent major arms purchases from Brazil, Oil-For-Expertise trades with Cuba (military deal), and yet more arms from Russia and Spain. Chavez's goal is to have 1.5 million man army. why does Venezuela need this to complete his "peaceful revolution"?


BBC
Mr Chavez's "revolution" had little real impact on the lives of ordinary Venezuelans, who still suffer from chronic poverty and widespread unemployment despite the country's oil wealth.



factmonster.com
In office he ended the privatization of Venezuela's state holdings, put himself in control of economic matters, and cut oil production to raise oil prices. A constituent assembly mainly made up of his supporters wrote a new constitution that granted the president increased powers and a longer possible term of office and weakened the legislature and judiciary.



SFGate.com
Three years ago, he easily defeated the two main political parties' presidential candidates on an anti-establishment platform, promising to clean up rampant corruption, reduce poverty and redistribute the nation's oil wealth.

When speaking to foreign investors and well-off Venezuelans, on the other hand, Chavez fashioned himself as a forward-looking leader eager to break the stranglehold of the two worn-out and discredited political parties. He said he would pursue a Venezuela version of British Prime Minister Tony Blair's left- of-center "Third Way."

But Chavez's vision for Venezuela had less to do with the "Third Way" than with the same statist oil-fueled myths that have ruined Venezuela.

He consolidated his power with a rewritten constitution, and he introduced the volatile elements of class-conflict and blame into his self-proclaimed "revolution." He adopted a decidedly in-your-face-style, bizarrely echoing out- of-date 1960s-era leftists. He courted Third World thugs such as Iraq's Saddam Hussein, Cuba's Fidel Castro and Libya's Moammar Khadafy -- all part of his efforts to promote a "multipolar" world against U.S. hegemony, home-grown oligarchs and globalization that, somehow, he blames for Venezuela's mess.



Vcrisis
In 2005, the Chavez regime may face the same problem former president Carlos Andres Perez faced in the 1970s: the oil money may dry up. Economic analysis demonstrates that if Venezuela's oil barrel is priced at $35 for the year, then the current waste, corruption, inefficiency, subsidy, intervention and wild-eyed projects can be paid for, but only with more debt, inflation and confiscated funds of PDVSA and the central bank. At $30 per barrel, it is extremely difficult to do so, and at $25 per barrel, impossible.

Chavez has done everything he can to prop up the price of oil at OPEC. But OPEC quotas are only one of many factors determining price. Oil inventories, winter climates, and demand - especially in China - all may be more important. In early December, when OPEC nominally cut supply quotas by several percent to prop up the oil price, it actually fell the next day on the world market. Since 1999, Chavez has supported a price band of $22-28 for OPEC, which it has exceeded on the top end for more than a year. His support for quota cuts at $35 is something that the rules say should happen only under $22. But Chavez needs the high price because he is producing way fewer barrels compared to when knowledge workers, and not military loyalists, ran PDVSA, a fact he refuses to acknowledge publicly.

It was the volatile, roller-coaster behavior of the oil price that defeated the past grand plans of Venezuela and most other oil states. So the big test for him will be when Chavez has to cut spending drastically. A recent Zogby poll shows that even at today's wasteful spending, few Venezuelans approve of his economic management. What will happen when the spending is cut in half? Unrest in the barrios, unmet demands from his base, and rising poverty in the face of profligate spending on international trips, subsidies to Cuba, and corruption in his own ranks, threaten Chavez at the core. While Chavez believes his enemies are the United States and oligarchs, the truth may be more startling. The real enemy of Chavez is Chavez. When poor people recognize how Chavez has fooled them, the wrath that brought down CAP will come one more time to the gates of Miraflores, this time with Chavez inside.



Venezuelatoday
The 50,000 Cubans in Venezuela are not immigrants. They are not here to stay, to live among us, to become part of our country and to be loyal to our country, to our nation. They are invaders, many loyal to a foreign and totalitarian political ideology, sent by a dictator in response to a request from a dictator-in-the-making. These two men share a political ideology that runs contrary to democracy, freedom and the political, religious and social values that most Venezuelans cherish. Many of the invaders have arrived to our country ostensibly to help our poor by giving them medical aid, to teach our illiterates to read and write, to train our youth in athletics or to advise us in some aspects of food production, such as sugar, where they are supposed to be experts. Many others are simply bodyguards, political indoctrinators, military personnel, intelligence staff, foreigners who are taking over the most sensitive areas of Venezuelan national security and who are sent by the Cuban dictator to "protect" his ideological heir apparent, Hugo Chávez. In this sense they are 50,000 too many.



posted on Jul, 20 2005 @ 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by looking4truth
Why defend Chavez?


- Actually I am not "defending" him but I am calling untrue and daft comments for what they are when I see them.


Do you only read the rosy pictures about the man?


- No, but I am savvy enough to see there is an anti side hard at work to paint him as badly as possible.

Especially given the current climate pervading this particular American administration.......and their pals in the US media only too happy to disseminate this nonsense.

Chavez a "threat"?
Please.


He's a military dictator under the geise of a democraticaly elected leader.


- You see?
This is exactly what I mean.

He isn't "under the guise" of anything.
He is the (twice) democratically elected leader of the Venezuelan gov.

Elections, I might add, which were subjected to the kind of rigorous independant and international scrutiny ironically totally absent in the USA these days.


Since coming to power he's weakened the judiciary, consolidated power for his government, used weak election laws to strip opponents of the ability to run against him or other members of his party, increased the size of the military dramaticly).


- .....or at least so his political opponents would have everyone believe.


and tried to annex a huge section of Guyana (an independent soverign nation


- Er, you'll find that the dispute over Guyana pre-dates Chavez by about a century.

Relations between Guyana and Venezuela have been driven by a persistent border dispute. Venezuela's claim to a mineral-rich five-eighths of Guyana's total land mass dates back to the early nineteenth century. The dispute was considered settled by arbitration in 1899. Decades later a memo written by a lawyer involved in the arbitration and published posthumously indicated that the tribunal president had coerced several members into assenting to the final decision. In 1962 Venezuela declared that it would no longer abide by the 1899 arbitration on the grounds of this new information

countrystudies.us...

As for Chavez and his relations with Guyana and what he did or did not do I suggest you read wht the Guyanian ambassador had to say about Venezuelan-Guyanan relations (July 3rd 2005) -

How would you describe the relationships between Guyana and Venezuela?

The relationship has improved tremendously over the last three to four years. There is a high respect from both sides for the other. I think this has a lot to do with the personal friendship between the two Presidents of our countries. Mr Hugo Chávez and Bharrat Jagdeo are on a first-name-basis. There`s also a longstanding friendship between the people of the two countries, despite the border problem. There have been close interchanges for decades. Many people in Guyana regard the border issue to be an issue for the politicians, not for the common people. The issue is now dealt with by the United Nations, and people are happy about that.

venezuelanalysis.com...


Any attempt to criticize Chavez by people in Venezuela results in an accusation of corruption.


- Sounds like an improvement from the 'old days' where dissenters, trades unionists and political activists (not of the ruling elite) were just 'disappeared', hmmm.


Why doesn't he just put on the silly hat and beard and get himself some cigars like his idol Fidel Castro.


- Yeah, the old Chavez = Castro nonsense. Is that it, is that the best you can come up with?
You'll have to do a lot better than that to convince the world he really ought to be removed.



As for other nations wanting to trade with Venezuela, well your right. Recent major arms purchases from Brazil, Oil-For-Expertise trades with Cuba (military deal), and yet more arms from Russia and Spain. Chavez's goal is to have 1.5 million man army. why does Venezuela need this to complete his "peaceful revolution"?


- I don't know, modernising maybe?
Certainly given the threats and attempts to subvert Venezuelan democracy maybe they have every right to feel threatened.

In any event it's their affair and their sovereign perogative. They have not invaded anyone have they?
I don't hear even the US today trying to claim he/they are a threat to the region because of their use of these arms.

.......and I doubt the Venezuelans come anywhere close to matching US military capabilities whatever old Russian kit they buy, hmmm?


Vcrisis
In 2005, the Chavez regime may face the same problem former president Carlos Andres Perez faced in the 1970s: the oil money may dry up. Economic analysis demonstrates that if Venezuela's oil barrel is priced at $35 for the year, then the current waste, corruption, inefficiency, subsidy, intervention and wild-eyed projects can be paid for, but only with more debt, inflation and confiscated funds of PDVSA and the central bank. At $30 per barrel, it is extremely difficult to do so, and at $25 per barrel, impossible.


- Yeah very interesting (unsubstantiated) claims about waste(!?), inefficiency, corruption, subsidy(!?), intervention (!?) and "wild eyed projects"(!?)......mmmmm yeah, "how outrageous, there's some "waste", "subsidy" and "wild eyed projects"; regime change those scary SOB's at once!", eh?
But be honest, this is really just an extended whine that Chavez and Co. had the gaul to change things from the previous state of affairs where the benefit went mainly to a few and the US corporations.

.......and you might have noticed, for all that, that oil is at $50+ a barrel, has been for some time and is with absolutely zero sign of a $25 -30 barrel on the horizon anytime soon.


Chavez has done everything he can to prop up the price of oil at OPEC. But OPEC quotas are only one of many factors determining price. Oil inventories, winter climates, and demand - especially in China - all may be more important.


- Er, quite.
Trying to lay blame on Chavez for the current oil price is hardly going to convince anyone.


Venezuelatoday
The 50,000 Cubans in Venezuela are not immigrants. They are not here to stay, to live among us, to become part of our country and to be loyal to our country, to our nation. They are invaders, many loyal to a foreign and totalitarian political ideology, sent by a dictator in response to a request from a dictator-in-the-making. These two men share a political ideology that runs contrary to democracy, freedom and the political, religious and social values that most Venezuelans cherish. Many of the invaders have arrived to our country ostensibly to help our poor by giving them medical aid, to teach our illiterates to read and write, to train our youth in athletics or to advise us in some aspects of food production, such as sugar, where they are supposed to be experts. Many others are simply bodyguards, political indoctrinators, military personnel, intelligence staff, foreigners who are taking over the most sensitive areas of Venezuelan national security and who are sent by the Cuban dictator to "protect" his ideological heir apparent, Hugo Chávez. In this sense they are 50,000 too many.


- So the opposition think 50 000 Cubans is too many out of a Venezuelan population of what, 23.5 millions!?

You'll have to do much better than that to show anything in the least bit threatening about this guy.

(and his anti right-wing Americans stance is hardly enough for that.

......and I note you have been utterly incapable of backing your earlies claim that

The Venezuelan's gov't controlled oil industry makes Enron look like a lemonaid stand accounting error.
)



[edit on 20-7-2005 by sminkeypinkey]



posted on Jul, 20 2005 @ 06:18 PM
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Please. Come on now.

Chavez is a dictator. There is no reason for his military buildup and the consildation of power otherwise. Venezuela is not at war with anyone. They did not have a 9/11 attack by foriegn terrorists. Don't compare the US and Venezuela, they might be in the same hemisphere but thats about all that they have in common. Venezuela and the US had a strange relationship before Chavez, his rhetoric has weakened it a lot but that's ok. If oil prices drop then Chavez will need to reconcile with the US otherwise their economy is in the tank. Who else is going to help, Cuba?

You don't want proof of PDVSA's continued corruption under Chavez. I could link to it and it still wouldn't be good enough. You could physically see the Chavez cronies being "perp" walked in handcuffs and you wouldn't believe it. The only thing that makes anyone outside of Venezuela's poor and even poorer support him is his whiney rhetoric about America. That's it. That's all.

If anyone who is supporting this fool thinks he is a model for the new socialist left then you need to keep watching, all that military buildup by a peaceful nation is being done for a reason. It's the same old tricks, in the same old way. Socialist savior becomes sadistic dictator.

This is about all I can take of this discussion. I respect your views sminkeypinkey but I don't like the Chavez dictatorship, I have a friend from Venezuela and she hates him for the same reasons, it's just another socialist trap. I really don't get it at all. Why are so many people scared to call this man out on this stuff. He runs up oil prices, not just in the US but worldwide with the policies his government advocates in the OPEC meetings. He alligns with communist dictators and increases military force in a time of relative peace for his country. Why? Who is the enemy? You already pointed out that he is not a military threat to the US. So why the buildup? The people of Venezuela may find out soon enough I think. Just let a challenger get too popular.



posted on Jul, 20 2005 @ 07:40 PM
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Originally posted by looking4truth
Please. Come on now.

Chavez is a dictator.


- Come on nothing matey, he isn't "a dictator".

He was democratically and freely elected (twice) under expert and respected international scrutiny. He is not a dictator, the rule of law functions in Venezuela; it might not be law you like but it is not a dictatorship.


There is no reason for his military buildup and the consildation of power otherwise. Venezuela is not at war with anyone. They did not have a 9/11 attack by foriegn terrorists.


- Well I don't think a mere proposal to buy a handful of Mig 29s (operating along side the F16's the USA supplied) make for a huge step up in offensive capability.
Especially if the US is no longer minded to maintain and supply spares for the US plane, wouldn't you say?


Venezuela and the US had a strange relationship before Chavez, his rhetoric has weakened it a lot but that's ok.


- Too true they did. The US has had very strange relations with Southern America, period.
Venezuela was well known for a wealthy strata of society doing very nicely out of the corporate dealings with the USA and everyone else getting the er, 'cruddy' end of the stick?

Frankly considering the role of some of the US corporations and their cosy deals it is little wonder the Venezuelans cried enough.

No doubt relations will normalise in time but for now the US is not exactly popular there (in fact considering US economic and foreign policy in South America is there a country there that does not harbour resentment?).


If oil prices drop then Chavez will need to reconcile with the US otherwise their economy is in the tank.


- I think in a global economy where oil is seriously sought after they will have no trouble finding trading partners.


You don't want proof of PDVSA's continued corruption under Chavez. I could link to it and it still wouldn't be good enough. You could physically see the Chavez cronies being "perp" walked in handcuffs and you wouldn't believe it.


- I simply do not accept such a one-dimensional and partial portrayal of the situation.

It is simply not correct to claim that land reform, for instance, is being done arbitarily and outside of the rule of democratically agreed law.


The only thing that makes anyone outside of Venezuela's poor and even poorer support him is his whiney rhetoric about America. That's it. That's all.


- I think the poverty itself has a hell of a lot to do with it.
For a country with such valuable natural resources the situation of much of the people was an outright disgrace.
No wonder he got support and no wonder those who thought that situation OK are thought badly of.


If anyone who is supporting this fool thinks he is a model for the new socialist left then you need to keep watching, all that military buildup by a peaceful nation is being done for a reason. It's the same old tricks, in the same old way. Socialist savior becomes sadistic dictator.


- You have no way of knowing this, this is just your own spin and assumption at work.


I respect your views sminkeypinkey


- Back at you, it's been an interesting to and fro.


I don't like the Chavez dictatorship, I have a friend from Venezuela and she hates him for the same reasons, it's just another socialist trap.


- It's perfectly ok to disagree with the guys politics but he is a democrat, regardless of whether he actually is a 'socialist'.
(and in view of the way US citizens apply that label to almost everyone not operating a US style system of gov/economics I'd be interested in knowing what that actually is supposed to mean.
Afterall we in Europe are all supposed to be 'socialist' but we generally live good comfortable lives with the ability to be 'well off'.)


He runs up oil prices, not just in the US but worldwide with the policies his government advocates in the OPEC meetings.


- Well the truth is he has previously tried to put pressure for an increase in oil prices, so what of it? That is the nature of the business.
He is hardly alone in having pressed for a higher price for oil in the past.

......and like I said he can hardly be blamed for the current price level (and why waste your efforts blaming him anyway? Today's oil price is far more to do with paranoid traders in the western markets pushing the price ever higher on every shred of bad news or scary rumour they can).


He alligns with communist dictators and increases military force in a time of relative peace for his country. Why?


- I think it is more accurate to say he is attempting to establish relations with independants. Yes that includes Cuba but so many others too.

As for this military build-up you think you are seeing I would suggest this is a consequence of Venezeula persuing its own path and no longer doing the USA's bidding.
The USA stops maintaining the F16s and other American kit so Venezuela looks for equivelent stuff elsewhere (.....and even if the order is placed and goes ahead the Mig 29 export varient is probably not even up to 24x F16C/D standard that the Venezuelans have).


Who is the enemy? You already pointed out that he is not a military threat to the US. So why the buildup? The people of Venezuela may find out soon enough I think. Just let a challenger get too popular.


- I think this current administration in the USA was dumb enough to position itself as the 'enemy' attempting to subvert Venezuelan democracy. Hopefully it will come to mean nothing and temperatures will subside.

Who do the surrounding countries feel the need to operate Kfirs, Mirage 2000's or Mirage F1's to defend against?
I am far from convinced there is any 'build up' going on anyway.......and I have yet to hear news of any neighbouring countries complaining of it either.

I respect your and your Venezuelan friends opinions but I'd also ask you check out this link and have a little look at some contrary information.

64.233.183.104...:AuqP1jjWfN4J:www.minci.gov.ve/imagnot/Folleto%2520Dossier%2520(INGLES).pdf+venezuelan+orders+mig+29s&hl=en


[edit on 20-7-2005 by sminkeypinkey]



posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 09:37 AM
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You omitted to say that


Venezuela has deployed more than 20,000 Cuban doctors in its shanty-towns, and Cuba is the grateful recipient of cheap Venezuelan oil

www.guardian.co.uk...

- Coo what a vicious dictator that Chavez seems to be, huh?
I bet the majority of the Venezuelan people are livid!




posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 12:16 PM
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It annoys me when people mouth 'deny ignorance' when talking about UFOs and chupacabras and god only knows what else , but when it comes to politics the motto is 'ignorance is required'.

Read up on politics people. You have been lied to. You are 'being' lied to. This man does not pose a threat, except in the war on 'feelings' or 'emotions.'

"Daddy, daddy, Hugo called the US a big pile of sh***. He isn't allowed to do that right daddy? Let's nuke the bastard."

If you want to discuss the benefits of Chavez' politics in Venezuela do so intelligently and in an informed manner. Ask even and people will share info and links with you.

Don't bring the level of discussion down by uttering the following repeatedly ad naseum:

1. Like that 'bastard' Castro
2. Communist (if you really mean socialist and vice-versa)
3. Democractic representative = Dictator - What are you in 6th grade? Only because he disagrees with the status quo and DARES criticize the US does not make him a dictator.
4. Doing 'bad' things like Enron to screw over his country.

He is a popular, smart man and Venezuela is the 5th top producing oil country in the world. Until he gathers up an army (I'm laughing already) and starts atacking the US, you have nothing to fear but your own biased opinions.

THe US hates him because he has oil - pure and simple. Oh and also because he isn't afraid to speak his mind. You can agree and disagree with his policies - heck everyone else does! But don't call him the same things everyone else does when you don't even know what he does.

Be informed. It will help you in your debates and not make you sounds like an uninformed dimwit.

This reminds of pre-Iraq days when Bush kept confusing Afghanistan with Iraq...

Think for yourselves people!



posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 02:31 PM
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So when are we invading them? WMDs? Spread democracy? Uh, oil? Just read a topic about how Bush literally cusses people out for disagreeing with him what will he do now that Chavez disagrees with him?

Chavez offered oil to the poor of America, doubt Bush will allow it to happen though.



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 10:06 AM
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Originally posted by Jestaman
Chavez offered oil to the poor of America, doubt Bush will allow it to happen though.


- Pfffffhhhhh.
Just another reason for the current US administartion to hate him.

Apparantly he has agreed several deals with several Sth American countries to supply oil at less than market rates although the quantities seem to be quite small from what I can make out.

Cuba gets a fairly small quantity of oil at approx $40 a barrel as opposed to todays $65 barrel and in return Cuba has sent approx 50 000 people to Venezuela.

The rabid US anti-Chavez crowd present this as some sort of an invasion and leave out the bit about 20 000 of them being doctors (although they do like to trumpet apparant malpractise - kind of ironic given Bushs' legislation about excessive or frivillous malpractise suits against doctors in the US
) or large numbers of the others being farmers, social workers etc etc.



posted on Aug, 27 2005 @ 03:24 PM
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Whether or not Chavez is a dictator (don't think the gummint wouldn't lie about stuff to justify their actions), if the Venezuelans are happy with him, leave him alone. If they don't want him, they can oust him themselves--their country, none of our business.

Even if he's an SOB, he's *their* SOB.



posted on Sep, 20 2006 @ 01:45 PM
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Just brought this post up again since it has become current. Look at the past and look at now. He maybe be the same that is the worring thing.



posted on Sep, 20 2006 @ 06:47 PM
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Chavez won't skew absolutely everything towards the already very well-off.

He also makes comments and statements the present US administration hates passionately.

Therefore things like reports of a 24 military jet order suddenly become enormously 'threatening', apparantly, and the whole machine just keeps cranking out the slant, disinfo and propaganda.

Do I think Chavez is a saint?
No.
Just like Bush & Co. aren't either.

But he is the duly elected leader of his country.

A leader elected btw under a level of security and internationally approved scrutiny that really ought to have Americans thinking about the piss-poor comparison this makes with their own electoral arrangements and what the hell is and is not going on in their own country with their own elections.

Still, nevermind that, look over there, eh, the nasty man said some bad things about dubya.
Better be a fascist about it....er I mean 'regime change' them then dubya, eh?



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