Hugo Chavez vs. America, page 1

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey

Originally posted by looking4truth
The Venezuelan's gov't controlled oil industry makes Enron look like a lemonaid stand accounting error.

- I'd love to see you back that claim up.

In an effort to "help" the people he's going to bankrupt the country and isolate it from it's biggest trade partners.

- So how come your mere speculation just ignores the part where almost everyone but the old ruling elite under the last lot was already bankrupt anyway?

.......and if they turn away from a bullying USA intent on overthrowing their duly and democratically eleceted government who but the US has themselves to blame?
What makes you think there isn't a world beyond the USA willing to trade with Venezuela?

Why defend Chavez? Do you only read the rosy pictures about the man?

He's a military dictator under the geise of a democraticaly elected leader. Since coming to power he's weakened the judiciary, consolidated power for his government, used weak election laws to strip opponents of the ability to run against him or other members of his party, increased the size of the military dramaticly and tried to annex a huge section of Guyana (an independent soverign nation). Don't forget how he got his start in politics........................ by being a main conspirator in the 1992 military coup attempt against an elected leader.

Any attempt to criticize Chavez by people in Venezuela results in an accusation of corruption. The media can't do it. The other political parties can't do it. Hell, even if I, a foriegn citizen do it, I'm supporting corruption. What a joke. Why doesn't he just put on the silly hat and beard and get himself some cigars like his idol Fidel Castro.

As for other nations wanting to trade with Venezuela, well your right. Recent major arms purchases from Brazil, Oil-For-Expertise trades with Cuba (military deal), and yet more arms from Russia and Spain. Chavez's goal is to have 1.5 million man army. why does Venezuela need this to complete his "peaceful revolution"?

BBC
Mr Chavez's "revolution" had little real impact on the lives of ordinary Venezuelans, who still suffer from chronic poverty and widespread unemployment despite the country's oil wealth.

factmonster.com
In office he ended the privatization of Venezuela's state holdings, put himself in control of economic matters, and cut oil production to raise oil prices. A constituent assembly mainly made up of his supporters wrote a new constitution that granted the president increased powers and a longer possible term of office and weakened the legislature and judiciary.

SFGate.com
Three years ago, he easily defeated the two main political parties' presidential candidates on an anti-establishment platform, promising to clean up rampant corruption, reduce poverty and redistribute the nation's oil wealth.

When speaking to foreign investors and well-off Venezuelans, on the other hand, Chavez fashioned himself as a forward-looking leader eager to break the stranglehold of the two worn-out and discredited political parties. He said he would pursue a Venezuela version of British Prime Minister Tony Blair's left- of-center "Third Way."

But Chavez's vision for Venezuela had less to do with the "Third Way" than with the same statist oil-fueled myths that have ruined Venezuela.

He consolidated his power with a rewritten constitution, and he introduced the volatile elements of class-conflict and blame into his self-proclaimed "revolution." He adopted a decidedly in-your-face-style, bizarrely echoing out- of-date 1960s-era leftists. He courted Third World thugs such as Iraq's Saddam Hussein, Cuba's Fidel Castro and Libya's Moammar Khadafy -- all part of his efforts to promote a "multipolar" world against U.S. hegemony, home-grown oligarchs and globalization that, somehow, he blames for Venezuela's mess.

Vcrisis
In 2005, the Chavez regime may face the same problem former president Carlos Andres Perez faced in the 1970s: the oil money may dry up. Economic analysis demonstrates that if Venezuela's oil barrel is priced at $35 for the year, then the current waste, corruption, inefficiency, subsidy, intervention and wild-eyed projects can be paid for, but only with more debt, inflation and confiscated funds of PDVSA and the central bank. At $30 per barrel, it is extremely difficult to do so, and at $25 per barrel, impossible.

Chavez has done everything he can to prop up the price of oil at OPEC. But OPEC quotas are only one of many factors determining price. Oil inventories, winter climates, and demand - especially in China - all may be more important. In early December, when OPEC nominally cut supply quotas by several percent to prop up the oil price, it actually fell the next day on the world market. Since 1999, Chavez has supported a price band of $22-28 for OPEC, which it has exceeded on the top end for more than a year. His support for quota cuts at $35 is something that the rules say should happen only under $22. But Chavez needs the high price because he is producing way fewer barrels compared to when knowledge workers, and not military loyalists, ran PDVSA, a fact he refuses to acknowledge publicly.

It was the volatile, roller-coaster behavior of the oil price that defeated the past grand plans of Venezuela and most other oil states. So the big test for him will be when Chavez has to cut spending drastically. A recent Zogby poll shows that even at today's wasteful spending, few Venezuelans approve of his economic management. What will happen when the spending is cut in half? Unrest in the barrios, unmet demands from his base, and rising poverty in the face of profligate spending on international trips, subsidies to Cuba, and corruption in his own ranks, threaten Chavez at the core. While Chavez believes his enemies are the United States and oligarchs, the truth may be more startling. The real enemy of Chavez is Chavez. When poor people recognize how Chavez has fooled them, the wrath that brought down CAP will come one more time to the gates of Miraflores, this time with Chavez inside.

Venezuelatoday
The 50,000 Cubans in Venezuela are not immigrants. They are not here to stay, to live among us, to become part of our country and to be loyal to our country, to our nation. They are invaders, many loyal to a foreign and totalitarian political ideology, sent by a dictator in response to a request from a dictator-in-the-making. These two men share a political ideology that runs contrary to democracy, freedom and the political, religious and social values that most Venezuelans cherish. Many of the invaders have arrived to our country ostensibly to help our poor by giving them medical aid, to teach our illiterates to read and write, to train our youth in athletics or to advise us in some aspects of food production, such as sugar, where they are supposed to be experts. Many others are simply bodyguards, political indoctrinators, military personnel, intelligence staff, foreigners who are taking over the most sensitive areas of Venezuelan national security and who are sent by the Cuban dictator to "protect" his ideological heir apparent, Hugo Chávez. In this sense they are 50,000 too many.

Originally posted by looking4truth
Why defend Chavez?

- Actually I am not "defending" him but I am calling untrue and daft comments for what they are when I see them.

Do you only read the rosy pictures about the man?

- No, but I am savvy enough to see there is an anti side hard at work to paint him as badly as possible.

Especially given the current climate pervading this particular American administration.......and their pals in the US media only too happy to disseminate this nonsense.

Chavez a "threat"?
Please.

He's a military dictator under the geise of a democraticaly elected leader.

- You see?
This is exactly what I mean.

He isn't "under the guise" of anything.
He is the (twice) democratically elected leader of the Venezuelan gov.

Elections, I might add, which were subjected to the kind of rigorous independant and international scrutiny ironically totally absent in the USA these days.

Since coming to power he's weakened the judiciary, consolidated power for his government, used weak election laws to strip opponents of the ability to run against him or other members of his party, increased the size of the military dramaticly).

- .....or at least so his political opponents would have everyone believe.

and tried to annex a huge section of Guyana (an independent soverign nation

- Er, you'll find that the dispute over Guyana pre-dates Chavez by about a century.

Relations between Guyana and Venezuela have been driven by a persistent border dispute. Venezuela's claim to a mineral-rich five-eighths of Guyana's total land mass dates back to the early nineteenth century. The dispute was considered settled by arbitration in 1899. Decades later a memo written by a lawyer involved in the arbitration and published posthumously indicated that the tribunal president had coerced several members into assenting to the final decision. In 1962 Venezuela declared that it would no longer abide by the 1899 arbitration on the grounds of this new information

countrystudies.us...

As for Chavez and his relations with Guyana and what he did or did not do I suggest you read wht the Guyanian ambassador had to say about Venezuelan-Guyanan relations (July 3rd 2005) -

How would you describe the relationships between Guyana and Venezuela?

The relationship has improved tremendously over the last three to four years. There is a high respect from both sides for the other. I think this has a lot to do with the personal friendship between the two Presidents of our countries. Mr Hugo Chávez and Bharrat Jagdeo are on a first-name-basis. There`s also a longstanding friendship between the people of the two countries, despite the border problem. There have been close interchanges for decades. Many people in Guyana regard the border issue to be an issue for the politicians, not for the common people. The issue is now dealt with by the United Nations, and people are happy about that.

venezuelanalysis.com...

Any attempt to criticize Chavez by people in Venezuela results in an accusation of corruption.

- Sounds like an improvement from the 'old days' where dissenters, trades unionists and political activists (not of the ruling elite) were just 'disappeared', hmmm.

Why doesn't he just put on the silly hat and beard and get himself some cigars like his idol Fidel Castro.

- Yeah, the old Chavez = Castro nonsense. Is that it, is that the best you can come up with?
You'll have to do a lot better than that to convince the world he really ought to be removed.

As for other nations wanting to trade with Venezuela, well your right. Recent major arms purchases from Brazil, Oil-For-Expertise trades with Cuba (military deal), and yet more arms from Russia and Spain. Chavez's goal is to have 1.5 million man army. why does Venezuela need this to complete his "peaceful revolution"?

- I don't know, modernising maybe?
Certainly given the threats and attempts to subvert Venezuelan democracy maybe they have every right to feel threatened.

In any event it's their affair and their sovereign perogative. They have not invaded anyone have they?
I don't hear even the US today trying to claim he/they are a threat to the region because of their use of these arms.

.......and I doubt the Venezuelans come anywhere close to matching US military capabilities whatever old Russian kit they buy, hmmm?

Vcrisis
In 2005, the Chavez regime may face the same problem former president Carlos Andres Perez faced in the 1970s: the oil money may dry up. Economic analysis demonstrates that if Venezuela's oil barrel is priced at $35 for the year, then the current waste, corruption, inefficiency, subsidy, intervention and wild-eyed projects can be paid for, but only with more debt, inflation and confiscated funds of PDVSA and the central bank. At $30 per barrel, it is extremely difficult to do so, and at $25 per barrel, impossible.

- Yeah very interesting (unsubstantiated) claims about waste(!?), inefficiency, corruption, subsidy(!?), intervention (!?) and "wild eyed projects"(!?)......mmmmm yeah, "how outrageous, there's some "waste", "subsidy" and "wild eyed projects"; regime change those scary SOB's at once!", eh?
But be honest, this is really just an extended whine that Chavez and Co. had the gaul to change things from the previous state of affairs where the benefit went mainly to a few and the US corporations.

.......and you might have noticed, for all that, that oil is at $50+ a barrel, has been for some time and is with absolutely zero sign of a $25 -30 barrel on the horizon anytime soon.

Chavez has done everything he can to prop up the price of oil at OPEC. But OPEC quotas are only one of many factors determining price. Oil inventories, winter climates, and demand - especially in China - all may be more important.

- Er, quite.
Trying to lay blame on Chavez for the current oil price is hardly going to convince anyone.

Venezuelatoday
The 50,000 Cubans in Venezuela are not immigrants. They are not here to stay, to live among us, to become part of our country and to be loyal to our country, to our nation. They are invaders, many loyal to a foreign and totalitarian political ideology, sent by a dictator in response to a request from a dictator-in-the-making. These two men share a political ideology that runs contrary to democracy, freedom and the political, religious and social values that most Venezuelans cherish. Many of the invaders have arrived to our country ostensibly to help our poor by giving them medical aid, to teach our illiterates to read and write, to train our youth in athletics or to advise us in some aspects of food production, such as sugar, where they are supposed to be experts. Many others are simply bodyguards, political indoctrinators, military personnel, intelligence staff, foreigners who are taking over the most sensitive areas of Venezuelan national security and who are sent by the Cuban dictator to "protect" his ideological heir apparent, Hugo Chávez. In this sense they are 50,000 too many.

- So the opposition think 50 000 Cubans is too many out of a Venezuelan population of what, 23.5 millions!?

You'll have to do much better than that to show anything in the least bit threatening about this guy.

(and his anti right-wing Americans stance is hardly enough for that.

......and I note you have been utterly incapable of backing your earlies claim that

The Venezuelan's gov't controlled oil industry makes Enron look like a lemonaid stand accounting error.

)

[edit on 20-7-2005 by sminkeypinkey]