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setting up suspects

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posted on Jul, 11 2005 @ 12:55 PM
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guardian newspaper reports on the morrocan man being named as a suspect in the london bombings and his history of finger pointing and accusations that he is a terrorist - www.guardian.co.uk...

it would be bad enough to be accused of involvement in the madrid bombings but now to be blamed for the london ones also and on what evidence?

just how does an innocent person clear their name or a guilty one not be in jail by now




posted on Jul, 11 2005 @ 04:33 PM
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do you happen to know the original source of the information. Ie: the newspaper that named him, or even better, the person/agency who took it upon themselfs to make a decision to release his name to the press?

[edit on 11-7-2005 by AdamJ]



posted on Jul, 11 2005 @ 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by AdamJ
do you happen to know the original source of the information. Ie: the newspaper that named him, or even better, the person/agency who took it upon themselfs to make a decision to release his name to the press?
[edit on 11-7-2005 by AdamJ]


I can't believe they've named this guy!!

It appears to be the NY Times. Registration Only.
Here are several articles that refer to the NY Times article (You'll have to search the pages for the text):


Moroccan authorities, for example, are seeking the return of Mohammed el-Guerbozi, a battle-hardened veteran of Afghanistan who they say planned the May 2003 attacks in Casablanca, which killed 45 people.


americanfuture.typepad.com...
corner.nationalreview.com...
neo-neocon.blogspot.com...



posted on Jul, 11 2005 @ 05:22 PM
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Another suspect may be Mohammed al-Guerbozi, a radical cleric believed to be living in London, who was convicted in absentia by Morocco in December, 2003, for his role in the Casablanca attacks in May of that year, which killed 45 people.

He was sentenced to 20 years in jail. The British government has refused to extradite him, citing lack of evidence connecting him to the Casablanca bombings.

Moroccan authorities have also said Osama bin Laden authorized Mr. al-Guerbozi to open training camps in Afghanistan in early 2001.

Meanwhile, Spanish authorities say he is the leader of the Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group, an al-Qaeda affiliate they believe is responsible for the Madrid blasts.

Scotland Yard denies he is a suspect in the London blasts.

Mr. al-Guerbozi told the Times last week that he offered to speak to the British police.

"Nothing is true," he said. "What they said about me after the Madrid bombings, they are saying it again and the media are writing the same things. It is not true. Now they say that I fled from London, but this is not true. I'm here. I'm not in the mountains and I'm not in the forest. I'm in hiding and the intelligence service and the police know where I am."


Globe and Mail


One of these sides is obviously completely wrong and i know who i think it is.

[edit on 11-7-2005 by AdamJ]



posted on Jul, 11 2005 @ 05:23 PM
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well i suggest that they hand over whatever information they have which led them to name the guy in public over to the uk police or consider the consequences of their irresponsible journalism.



posted on Jul, 11 2005 @ 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by justyc
well i suggest that they hand over whatever information they have which led them to name the guy in public over to the uk police or consider the consequences of their irresponsible journalism.


not the journalism though is it.
They just report what information is released.
Its the incompetant and stupid, or deliberately misleading police and intelligence agencies who publically named him.

or maybe this guy is just lying, but it seems strange to me seeing as he was convicted for 20 years yet still in the UK.

[edit on 11-7-2005 by AdamJ]



posted on Jul, 11 2005 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by justyc

it would be bad enough to be accused of involvement in the madrid bombings but now to be blamed for the london ones also and on what evidence?

just how does an innocent person clear their name or a guilty one not be in jail by now


Im betting you dont work for Scotland Yard, so you wouldnt have a clue about evidence. How can you say hes innocent, when hes clearly been identified as a suspect?

here is a link from the NYTimes about this, since it doesnt require registration.

www.washingtonpost.com...



posted on Jul, 11 2005 @ 05:29 PM
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Last Friday, a team of Spanish detectives arrived in London to help the Metropolitan police with the investigation.

After last week’s explosions, police were believed to be looking into Mohamed el-Gerbouzi, a Moroccan living in London who has been jailed in Morocco in his absence for terrorism offences. Yesterday, however, senior Met officers were strongly discounting that he had any involvement in the London bombings.

Times Online



posted on Jul, 11 2005 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by WissNX01
Im betting you dont work for Scotland Yard, so you wouldnt have a clue about evidence. How can you say hes innocent, when hes clearly been identified as a suspect?


i dont believe i said i thought he was innocent, only asking a rhetorical question on innocence or guilt.

if there's evidence against him, then arrest him, extradite him or charge him. i think that is how the police work isnt it? or do they go by what an american newspaper reports about him?



posted on Jul, 11 2005 @ 05:47 PM
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After his name appeared in several newspapers at the weekend, he told the Qatar-based network: "They have made up this story." He accused someone at the Moroccan embassy in London, whom he refused to name, of being behind the allegation that he had links to terrorist groups.
Thursday's atrocities were "all lies".

French officials consider him to be the founder and principal recruiter of the GICM. Following the Casablanca attacks, senior Moroccan diplomats called for Britain to explain why al Garbuzi was never arrested, despite warnings that he posed a threat.
French judicial sources said Morocco had sought his extradition, but Britain had failed to comply with the request.


www.theherald.co.uk...


original request appears to be from Scotland Yard/MI5, reported by Independent on July 9th

Scotland Yard and MI5 urgently requested European agencies to help track a London-based Moroccan. The search for Mohammed al-Gerbouzi, who has also been linked to terrorist attacks in Madrid and Casablanca, began after he disappeared from his home in London.

Al-Gerbouzi, who has granted asylum in Britain, was sentenced to 20 years in absentia by a court in Morocco for his alleged involvement in bombings in Casablanca which killed 44 people in 2003.

The north African, a British resident for 16 years, has been accused by French and German security services of connections with Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the Jordanian-born leader of the insurgent group in Iraq connected to al-Qa'ida which murdered British hostage Ken Bigley.

He is also an associate of Abu Qatada, one of the detainees released from Belmarsh in March this year. Mr Qatada was described by a British judge as a "truly dangerous" individual and by a Spanish judge as "Osama bin Laden's ambassador in Europe".

The Moroccan government has made several attempts to have 45-year-old al-Gerbouzi, who they claim is the head of an organisation called the Group of Islamic Combatants, sent back to Morocco. Evidence later presented before a Moroccan court claimed he helped the Casablanca bombers obtain false passports and money.

The British government has denied the Moroccan request because there is no extradition treaty between the two countries. The Home Office has also said the Moroccan authorities failed to produce adequate evidence to justify an arrest.

Morocco has presented further evidence to Scotland Yard. But al-Gerbouzi had, by then, disappeared from his council flat in Kilburn, north-west London. He said he had been questioned by MI5 agents but denied any connections with terrorism.

In March last year, Spanish detectives investigating the bombing of commuter trains in March that killed 191 people, said that one of the suspects, Moroccan called Jamal Zougham, 31, made telephone calls to a landline and mobile telephone line in London belonging to al-Gerbouzi.

Senior police sources in Brussels and Paris said they received requests on Thursday night from Scotland Yard and MI5 for all possible information about the recent movements and contacts of al-Gerbouzi. A spokeswoman for Europol, the European police information exchange agency, refused to confirm or deny a request has been made, adding merely: "We are providing information and intelligence to the UK authorities."


Thank god for the home office
Independent

[edit on 11-7-2005 by AdamJ]



posted on Jul, 11 2005 @ 06:11 PM
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Originally posted by justyc
if there's evidence against him, then arrest him, extradite him or charge him. i think that is how the police work isnt it? or do they go by what an american newspaper reports about him?


Okay, as a person that actually read the LA Times, No one takes the american newspapers seriously. Subscriptions to newspapers have dropped by 50% since 2000, so its an industry in decline. hell, I only get the local paper for the classifieds and coupons.

That is actually how the police work. I have a theory that when the police and prosecuters decide a person is a suspect, they are generally correct. Thats why there are trials. A jury can figure out the guilt and innocence.

I dont buy into the whole idea that this terrorism is contrived by some NWO or shadow government. Terrorism is a direct result of Western policies. Yeah, you can trace George Bush to Bin Laden, but on the same token, I can trace myself back to George Washington.(not related, by the way since George Washington had no heirs). I mean linking people to others is like playing the Kevin Bacon game, which I enjoy by the way.

Reasoning for Iraq might have been flawed, but its too late now. I just think were pandering to these terrorists too much and need to come down on them like a ton of bricks.



posted on Jul, 11 2005 @ 10:59 PM
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I really doubt this guy is just some average Joe Moroccan who is being blamed for something for no apparant reason. Obviously his hands must be dirty with something. Even if he's not responsible for these particular attacks, he at the very least must surround himself with some unsavory characters. Our governments just don't close their eyes and point at a name in the phone book and decide to accuse that person of terrorism.



posted on Jul, 11 2005 @ 11:18 PM
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Originally posted by Rasputin13
I really doubt this guy is just some average Joe Moroccan who is being blamed for something for no apparant reason. Obviously his hands must be dirty with something. Even if he's not responsible for these particular attacks, he at the very least must surround himself with some unsavory characters. Our governments just don't close their eyes and point at a name in the phone book and decide to accuse that person of terrorism.


One would hope not, yet it appears that is exactly what they do when it comes to terrorism.

[edit on 11-7-2005 by AdamJ]



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 12:41 AM
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Originally posted by AdamJ
One would hope not, yet it appears that is exactly what they do when it comes to terrorism.
[edit on 11-7-2005 by AdamJ]


No no no, that is not what they do. Intelligence organizations are all over the London bombings. Okay, they are going over miles and miles of tapes. They apparently spotted the creep on one of th tapes.

And Ill tell you what, if your accused of some kind of terrorism, you had better have an air tight alibi. And if your Muslim, and accused of terrorism, you had better have about a thousand witnesses as to where you were. Simple fact is that these terrorists are rat bastards. And because of them, they bring down thier whole culture.

And the liberals can cry how terrorism is because of George Bush. Guess what, these bastards have been around longer than Bush. No one likes to talk about Chechnya. But those people are brutal. I remember some of my terrorism training and back in 1998, we were shown some pretty sick videos of what the Chechen terrorist do to thier captives. They had film after film of these bastards holding a Russian down on the floor face first. Then another terrorist would come with a nice sharp knife.

That knife would be inserted into the jugular and cut out towards the floor. They would let go of the Russian, and the poor guy, or even gal, would bleed to death. They would squirm and flail around like fish. It looked pretty unpleasant.

But these people have been at this crap for alot longer than we ever dreamed of going into Iraq. And England has been practically inviting Muslims into thier country. They are asking for another Chechnya.



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 02:31 AM
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Originally posted by WissNX01
I have a theory that when the police and prosecuters decide a person is a suspect, they are generally correct. Thats why there are trials. A jury can figure out the guilt and innocence.


perhaps you are not aware of the uk's past history of jailing innocent people for acts of terrorism - how would you like to spend half of your life in jail for something you never did?



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 03:21 AM
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That depends, did they eventually get released? IF so, I dont see the problem with just being very careful. Plus, that would be very hard to do in the US to a citizen that is born here.

Speaking of careful, consider Guantanamo Bay. Those people down there arent getting a trial, and should never expect to leave that island alive. They are real terrorists, and thankfully arent afforded liberty by our Constitution.



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 03:45 AM
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i can't believe i just read that


you think its cool for innocent people to be jailed simply because the public needs scapegoats NOW and the police dont want to investigate properly but its all ok and fine if they get released 16 or so years later simply because people fought all that time to prove their innocence!

btw - where is the proof that all those being held in guantanamo bay are guilty? if they're guilty then charge them and do it in your own country where LAWS apply



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 11:00 AM
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If they are innocent, then they will EVENTUALLY be released. And as far as the Guantanamo terrorists are concerned, I hope they stay there. Hell, I spent some good time in Guantanamo Bay, its not so bad, except when it reaches about a 100 degrees at 8am. Other than that, the camp they are in is right next to the ocean. It could be worse, we could have never heard of Guantanamo or what they were doing with it. Instead, they could have made it all hush hush and gassed the bastards like the Nazis did.

Like I said before, the terrorists shouldnt be afforded the rights under our Constitution. It was written for Americans, not Joe Blow Saudi Terrorist. ANd I bet if they ever got thier military tribunal, or even a trial by civilian jury, they would be guilty still.



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by WissNX01
If they are innocent, then they will EVENTUALLY be released. And as far as the Guantanamo terrorists are concerned, I hope they stay there. Hell, I spent some good time in Guantanamo Bay, its not so bad, except when it reaches about a 100 degrees at 8am. Other than that, the camp they are in is right next to the ocean. It could be worse, we could have never heard of Guantanamo or what they were doing with it. Instead, they could have made it all hush hush and gassed the bastards like the Nazis did.

Like I said before, the terrorists shouldnt be afforded the rights under our Constitution. It was written for Americans, not Joe Blow Saudi Terrorist. And I bet if they ever got thier military tribunal, or even a trial by civilian jury, they would be guilty still.


I think you have to much faith in intelligence agencies and authority.
How many people have actually been convicted of belonging to Al-Qaeda?
I assume it is not the American constitution they are in theory protected by, but the Declaration on Human Rights.
You can rant all day about lefties and how bad these terrorists are, it means nothing. Most terrorists work for one government or another, that is how they get the funding to do what they do.

[edit on 12-7-2005 by AdamJ]



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 03:04 PM
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Originally posted by AdamJ Most terrorists work for one government or another, that is how they get the funding to do what they do.

[edit on 12-7-2005 by AdamJ]


I guess your going to continue basing this idea on the idea of when we funded Bin Laden 20 years ago, huh? That may have applied then, and applies to the Palestinians, but otherwise, they are independant. Reports are surfacing that AQ is using the poppies in Afganistan to fund thier terror. They dont need anyone now.



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