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Indian Navy want F-35, not the Super Hornets that were offered

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posted on Jul, 11 2005 @ 12:22 PM
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Indian Navy is willing to procure F-35 advanced fighters from US, but it is not interested in F-18 fighter planes as they are not "compatible" with the aircraft carriers of the naval force, Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Arun Prakash said here today.

"Yes. Given an offer, we will be much interested in having the F-35 fighters," Admiral Prakash told reporters when asked if the Navy would be willing to procure the advanced fighters from the US.

He was speaking to reporters after the commissioning of warship INS Beas at the Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers Ltd. Admiral Prakash said that the F-18 aircraft, being offered by the US to Indian armed forces, would not be relevant for the Navy. "F-18 is a carrier-borne aircraft, but needs steam catapult (for take-off). It is not compatible to ski-jump and therefore, not suitable for our type of aircraft carriers," he said. On the other hand the F-35 aircraft were of the ski-jump type and would be suitable for the Navy's aircraft carriers, he explained.

The Navy was also looking for acquisition of "reconnoisseur aircraft but not of AWACS type," Admiral Prakash said, but hastened to add that plans were underway to replace the Sea Harrier fighter aircraft with MiG 29-K and light combat aircraft (LCA). "We have one squadron of fighter aircraft Sea Harrier with INS Virat, but it will be replaced by Mig 29-K or LCA," he said.

Full article....

The F-35 may well be within India's reach :

Read this :

The American F-35 joint strike fighter (JSF) project may be nowhere within India’s grasp, feels Lockheed Martin, unless the country gets its ‘data protection’ act together and the two countries sit down and work out a comprehensive list of agreements.

www.indianexpress.com...

So its not impossible for India to get its hands on the F-35.

Check out this picture of the F-35 displayed in Indian markings at Aero India 2005. Ironically the F-16, F/A-18, C-130J, P-3C, PAC-3 that the US has alredy offered to India were in Indian markings too, but large models of the B-2, F/A-22 & several UCAV's were in American markings !
www.bharat-rakshak.com...
Resized image; quality loss is regretted
View the full sized image of the F-35 in Indian AF markings

But ironically again, India has also been offered participation in the Russian 5th generationPAK-FA programme too !


The fifth generation fighter plane under development at Sukhoi Aircraft Corporation is to make its maiden flight in 2007. "The development of the fifth generation fighter is proceeding in strict compliance with the schedule and the plane will be flight-tested in 2007," the Russian Air Chief, General Vladimir Mikhailov, said while visiting Kubinka airbase near here. Russia has offered India a stake in its fifth generation fighter programme and the issue was discussed during President A P J Abdul Kalam's recent Russian tour, when the Indian President visited Sukhoi Aircraft Corporation. According to Sukhoi sources, the experience accumulated during the implementation of Su-30MKI fighter project for the Indian Air Force provides a 'solid ground'' for the Indo-Russian interaction in developing the fifth generation fighter, which would match the US JSF project.

links : www.newsindia.com...
India undecided on the PAK-FA
www.hitechweb.szm.sk...

There is a VSTOL version of the PAK-FA too; i'll post its picture right away

And even more ironically, India is developing its own MCA, a stealthy development of its LCA with the same role as the PAK-FA & F-35 in addition to the Naval Variant of the LCA, N-LCA.

Here is the MCA :


and this is the LCA :
img197.exs.cx...

and its naval version :
img214.exs.cx...
Resized image; quality loss is regretted
View large image

And France has alredy offered its carrier borne Rafale-M :


and the USA has offered its F/A-18 E/F Super Hornetsfor the first time to a country other than Cannada !!(in addition to exclusive block 70 F-16's)

US also announced the offer to India for the co-production of F-18 super hornet fighter jets to India.The US offer includes co-production of F-18 fighter jets in India with license to produce at least six times the number of planes that would have been sold to Pakistan.

link


and the Eurofighter too has been offered (though not to the Navy) >> link

India have placed an order for 16 Mig-29 K fighters for its third aircraft carrier INS Vikramadithya, with a capacity to carry 40 of these Mig-29K's. The carrier will enter service in late 2007. It will also carry a US E-2C Hawkeye 2000 AWACS.

These Mog-29's are the latest around. Check them out : Mig-29 K

Its 4th and indegenous aircraft carrier will be armed with N-LCA's.

Nice problems to have i suppose !!!

Some Indo-US ties in the past 6 months (the threads to the topisc are linked) :

> India & US sign 10 year defence pact
> US offers the latest Patriot PAC-3 to India
> US offers exclusive block 70 F-16 to India with tech transfer & co-production
> US offers the F/A-18 E/F Super Hornet to India with co-production
> US lets India acess to latest civilian nuclear technology
> US offers the E-2C 2000 Hawkeye AWACS to Indian Navy
> US offers the C-130 J Hercules transporter to India
> US offeres P-3C maritime recon/anti-submarine airplane to Indian Navy with full technology transfer and full production rights
> US may offer India participation in the next-gen P-8MMA programme
> US customs to buy Indian ALH Dhruv helicopter
> US and Indian Air Forces & Navies agree to have 3 mutual exercises anually
> US approves sale of the Israeli Phalcon AWACS (E-3C equivalent)with lots of American patented systems to India
> India allows US Navy to operate from its naval bases
> India, US join hands to make futuristic soldier

In some time I suppose I must replace the Russian flag in my avatar with an American one




Mod edit to direct link oversized images/photos

[edit on 11-7-2005 by Seekerof]




posted on Jul, 11 2005 @ 12:26 PM
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Anything for the US comes with "strings attached" I think India should steer clear of acquiring anything from the US as of now.. Esp. with US hypocracy regarding Pakistan..



posted on Jul, 11 2005 @ 12:27 PM
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And before i forget, let me mention this too :

Indian Navy SEA HARRIER FRS Mk.51 / T Mk.60 operational on India's second aircraft carrier INS Viraat have been upgraded. They now get installation of new radars (Elta EL/M-2032 multimode fire control radar), new air-to-air missiles (Derby BVRAAM) from Israeli firm Rafael, combat manoeuvring flight recorders and new digital cockpit voice recorders.

Israeli Derby BVRAAM link



posted on Jul, 11 2005 @ 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3
Anything for the US comes with "strings attached" I think India should steer clear of acquiring anything from the US as of now.. Esp. with US hypocracy regarding Pakistan..


Wow. I need to give you credit for new levels of hate. I never could have imagined somebody could have so smoothly integrated a USA hate statement into an aircraft thread talking about business and production deals.

Never cease to amaze me...



posted on Jul, 11 2005 @ 12:38 PM
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This shouldn't come as much of a suprise, the F-35B is better suited to India's carriers than the F-18, which was designed to fly off the USN's big supercarrriers. The F-35B is a better choice for India, as it will allow them to keep their older, smaller jumpjet carriers up to date & combat effective even as they begin using larger CV's.



posted on Jul, 11 2005 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by skippytjc
Wow. I need to give you credit for new levels of hate. I never could have imagined somebody could have so smoothly integrated a USA hate statement into an aircraft thread talking about business and production deals.

Never cease to amaze me...


He is right in a way :

> US provides weaponry to Pakistan
> Pakistan sponsors terrorism on India
Please check out these 2 links

1
2
> US will end up providing arms to both India & Pakistan and in effect call the shots
> India have other avenues to buy weaponry too...and those are also good
> US may impose sanctions on India stopping spare parts supply midway like it did to Pakistan after it tested out its nukes
> 1998 to 2001 India was under US sanctions for testing nukes
> India alredy have stable and trustworthy defence suppliers in Russia, Israel, France, Germany, UK,etc so why move to another when you have excellent relations with existing partners ?
> Russia has stood by India in its darkest hours, so India feels indebted to Russia



posted on Jul, 11 2005 @ 01:52 PM
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The US/India relationship has taken some interesting turns lately; the old "Enemy of my enemy is my friend" in relation to the Islamic states would certainly be part of that, as well as India jumping into capitalist economic policies instead of the socialist model the congress party used to push. As a Yank I'm at least happy the weekly put-down of the US from Bhramin know-it-alls has disappeared.
As to the Indian Navy, my question to you Stealth Spy is where is this weapon aimed?
Deigo Garcia perhaps?



posted on Jul, 11 2005 @ 02:21 PM
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Hmm, yes I do agree that the F-35 is the better choice for India, however, the problem may come that the F-35 may not even be put up as an offer to India, if it will, not as soon as it comes out, maybe a decade or so after.

I'm sure that there are political reasons to not handing over aircraft technology to other nations, and economical. Looks to me that if India wants to get in the loop of high-end aircraft, it'll have to become best friends with all the big players.

Shattered OUT...



posted on Jul, 11 2005 @ 02:33 PM
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US provides weaponry to Pakistan
Pakistan sponsors terrorism on India


This is true, and not US bashing, simply fact.

The US should be tilting toward India not Pakistan anyway.

Pakistan is shaking our hand with one hand, stabbing us in the back with the other. (The ISI creating the Taleban, the tribalists in Wazaristan giving aid and comfort to OBL and his buds, and most of the population hates our guts.)

More reasons:

1) India is a free democracy, Pakistan is not... 'nuff said there.
2) The US and India face common foes (Islamic extremists) and rivals (China.)
3) India is militarily stronger.
4) India is economically much stronger.
5 ) reason #1 again, for emphasis


The US and India are natural allies, too bad blockheads in both countries' leadership are too dopey to embrace it. Though, hopefully, this seems to be changing.



posted on Jul, 11 2005 @ 04:21 PM
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People should realize that it is the pentagon with congress's approval that makes the decision who gets what not Lockheed Martins CEO. Lockheed Martin only wants $$S regardless of their BS commercials about who they work for so they are wiling to sell to almost anyone with the right $$$. I don't know if congress and the pentagon are as willing to give the Indians the F-35.



posted on Jul, 11 2005 @ 08:52 PM
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I think India should put money into their own VTOL or ST aircraft, by procuring planes from other countries, you are barely learning anything, and plus I think its too late for participation into JSF now (correct me if I'm wrong), you wouldn't be getting the versions like the other participating countries. Putting money into their own design might set them back a few years but in the end its India thats getting the benefit.



posted on Jul, 11 2005 @ 09:25 PM
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Yeah, your right COWlan, India should, because quite frankly, they will not be getting F-35s anytime soon.






seekerof



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 12:19 AM
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Originally posted by Realist05
As a Yank I'm at least happy the weekly put-down of the US from Bhramin know-it-alls has disappeared.

I am Bhramin too but i dont get what you intend to convey




As to the Indian Navy, my question to you Stealth Spy is where is this weapon aimed?
Deigo Garcia perhaps?


Certainly not; India's aircraft carriers ensure that the Indian Ocean is the Indian Ocean
. They also offer an option for a land & sea based attack on Pakistan.

And cowlan the first fight of the N-LCA prototype(indegneous ST plane) will be out in a few months time
. Several of these will arm the 4th & new aircraft carrier ADS and the planned 5th carrier in 2010.



India should, because quite frankly, they will not be getting F-35s anytime soon.


I dunno much about that. India were not close to getting the super hornet or the PAC-3 or the Hawkeye 2000 AWACS 4 months back. And these were offered without any Indian request !! and not by LM or Northrop but by the US congress !!

And participation in the next gen P-8 MMA, when did someone think that was possible ??

And India have alredy got the Phalcon AWACS form Israel, which is essentially an Israeli version of the latest E-3 with US approval & 90+% of it is American tech !!

The only uncomfortable part for India is that it will not be able to say no to Russia when they ask for these letest gizmos to have a look (& maybe disect it, etc) . or even France for that matter.


No wonder LM wants some data protection act.

[edit on 12-7-2005 by Stealth Spy]



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 01:36 AM
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I agree, the F-35 will be a much better aircraft than the F-18. To be honest I never liked the F-18 in the first place, now the F-35 on the other hand, thats an impressive piece of work. Problem is not even the USAF or USN has F-35s yet so it'll be a while before they go into production for India to get any. However the more that are bought the cheaper it is down the road, so the more people who buy F-35's the more the US can buy.



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 10:32 AM
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Yeah, your right COWlan, India should, because quite frankly, they will not be getting F-35s anytime soon.


I don't see why this would be the case, the US seems eager to sell hardware to India these days, unless you're referring to fact that nobody is getting F-35's "soon".



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 10:45 AM
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India may certainly be an option for the JSF, because :

> Israel has got booted out of the JSF programme for leaking tech to China
> UK wants to pull out of the JSF programme if the US does no share tech
> Australia have kept mum on the JSF
> Netherlands have not confirmed the JSF order and some reports speculate that they'll go in for Thphoons
> US budget cuts due to the Iraq war have cut the numbers of F-22's and F-35's that they may buy
> Turkey are dilly-dallying on the JSF
> Singapore will only buy a very few of the F-35.

So India may be a good candidate for the JSF.



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 10:58 AM
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"May" and what actually will be are two different matters here, StealthSpy.
Till I see it approved and in a headline paper, it amounts to continued wishful thinking on the part of India. Those who have and are involved with the JSF program are considered long standing allies. Since when did India fall into that category?





seekerof



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 11:42 AM
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This argument would be more convincing if the F-35 wasn't designed (unlike the F-22) specifically with export customers in mind. The Indian's may not get in on the ground floor of the program, but my bet is, if they want them, they'll get them. As long as the checks don't bounce
Because that's what it's really all about.



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
"May" and what actually will be are two different matters here, StealthSpy.
Till I see it approved and in a headline paper, it amounts to continued wishful thinking on the part of India. Those who have and are involved with the JSF program are considered long standing allies. Since when did India fall into that category?


I dont deny your views but which non-long standing ally has been offered Super Hornets and PAC-3's without any request for it ??

Sure the F-35 may be a little too much, but if India really want it and are serious on it, and lobby hard and a get data protection act together and make a very very serious request for it through the highest level and do some US soothing by ceding to the long standing request to send peace-keeping troops to Iraq and Afghanistan, etc and play the world's largest democracy card,etc in most probability they will get it.

But I serioulsy doubt if India are that serious about the F-35B and they would not go to such deep extents to get it when they have other easily available offers at hand, especially the VSTOL PAK-FA, naval LCA & MCA.

Also India is the only country in the region to have aircraft carriers. China & Pakistan have none and the Thailand(who have 1 a/c) is a friendly country.
So India are not that desperate for the F-35 and the top end Mig-29 K's that Russia is giving( & 16 of which India have alredy purchased for the INS Vikramadithya) will more than suffice not only for now but for the next decade as well.




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