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Debunking 8 Anti-War Myths About The Conflict In Iraq

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posted on Jul, 11 2005 @ 08:13 PM
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I read the article, the whole article and nothing but the article.

I saw nothing to "debunk" any of the charges against George W Bush or his criminal cronies.

What is readily observable is:

* playing with the semantics of prevarication (lies)
* misinformation about the actual source of quotes from administration officials (eg quoting Condoleezza Rice in 'recant' mode rather than George W Bush in full-on lying mode)
* attempts to diffuse responsibility for lies and misuse of fabricated intelligence, including to a previous administration and a defeated political opponent (such a typical and pathetic strategy, a la Rove circa 2004-05)
* attempts to deflect the charges against George W Bush in one lightweight argument that only his existing dwindling number of ovine followers would see as legitimately defending his administration.

The article is complete crap, like a "Popular Mechanics on 9/11", painting a broadbrush sugary picture that acts as a placebo to help the people suffering cognitive dissonance just a little better with their ability to deal with the criminal their nation tells them they elected.

But at least the authors are honest with the "rightwing news" website address at the link.




posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 12:33 AM
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Clinton played the "I'd rather promote the War on Drugs and endless wars in eastern europe" game.


More partisan badgering on how Clinton is bad and Bush is good? Left, right - black, right. No Republican can ever do any wrong. It's impossible.


It seems to me that most people have been brain washed by Saddam.


Yeah, we all listen to Saddam's speeches on the news every night. They really make him out to be a sharp fellow. It's no wonder he tricked us into letting our government invade him.

And I mean, damn! He really got us, too! Brainwashed us into thinking he didn't have any WMDs, when in reality, he really didn't! Just goes to show you how much you can trust old Saddam.

Bush, on the other hand..... That Bush is one straight-forward, honest guy. Hasn't been one thing he's said that wasn't true since he was elected. He said Saddam had WMDs? Oh, he was just kidding. No, wait, better yet, it was all Clinton's fault! If Clinton had done something, Bush wouldn't have got the blame for invading and finding no WMDs! It all makes perfect sense.



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 01:11 AM
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You leftist are absolutely amazing. You care about not one thing in this world, except about your pathetic never ending agenda! I am so tired of leftist tunnel vision I could scream. Let me set your historically challenged thinking straight.
1. Iraq USED chemical weapons repeatedly on Iran and the Iraqi Kurds! Therefore he had them, he made them, and he used them. Only someone with there head in a hole would assume he no longer had them.
2. Saddam Hussein made it repeatedly clear that his goal was to take over the entire Middle East. He wanted desperately to obtain the quantity of WMD needed to achieve that dream.
3. With the exception of Jordan he attacked every county that borders him.
4. Saddam Hussein was a horror of a man that was directly responsible for millions of deaths.
But that’s ok with you because you hate Bush. So to hell with the Iraqi people and anything that Gorge does that’s a benefit to mankind. You probably weep when Pol Pot died? After all he was on the right track, just needed to tweak his program a little. Am I right? Did 911 screw up your “everyone will ride a bike agenda? Its been 30 years sense you got us out of Vietnam and there still riding bikes and hoping against hope that the communist leadership will drop dead so that there’s a chance at a better life. You where wrong then and you’re wrong now. On the Vietnam matter; In light of the fact that there was no WW3 with the old Soviet Union. That fact makes the war in Vietnam the pivotal war that turned the time line away from communism and too free democracies. Thank you Vietnam vets for saving us from a bicycle riding, unfulfilling, and dictated to, hopeless existence. And to you Jane Fonda loving, communism is great; France is lovely, artistic types. You have been no help at all!



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 01:50 AM
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1. Iraq USED chemical weapons repeatedly on Iran and the Iraqi Kurds! Therefore he had them, he made them, and he used them. Only someone with there head in a hole would assume he no longer had them.


This was during another time, and there was another war to deal with this. Also, where did Saddam get those weapons? Hmm?

That Saddam used to have WMDs is no reason to invade him today. He didn't have any. His programs had degraded since our last war there, and he had not killed any more of his people. No reason to go in again. Get over it. Geez. This stuff is old news, man.


2. Saddam Hussein made it repeatedly clear that his goal was to take over the entire Middle East. He wanted desperately to obtain the quantity of WMD needed to achieve that dream.


Anything to support that Saddam ever intended to actually try that? According to the Duelfer Report, not only did Saddam have a degrading WMD program, but it was of the opinion of this particular expert that Saddam only wanted them for defensive purposes, and an increased political importance. He was waiting for sanctions to be lifted so he could legally go after them for those very reasons.


3. With the exception of Jordan he attacked every county that borders him.


Has absolutely nothing to do with our current war with Iraq, at all.


4. Saddam Hussein was a horror of a man that was directly responsible for millions of deaths.


There is a genocide going on in the Sudan right now that has so far claimed 10x the number of lives Saddam ever did, and they even have less of a military. Are we down there saving the day? No. Why not? Saddam was only one of many leaders in the world today responsible for such things, and certainly not the worst, by any means.

It also may be of surprise to certain people that the political standings of people that believe other than yourself are actually quite diverse. Not every intelligent person is a 'commie'. That is to say, not every non-Republican is a commie. Personally I am not "leftist." Socialism is hardly better than fascism.

What so many of you forget, through this staged right-left struggle, is that there are other choices. There is a thing called libertarianism, which states that the government that governs least governs best. That used to be the old Republican doctrine, as a matter of fact, but no more, alas. There are also many other political standings.

The fact that someone has just mistaken anti-Bush to mean bicycle-riding communist is hilarious in a sad, sombre sort of way.



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 02:13 AM
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There is a genocide going on in the Sudan right now that has so far claimed 10x the number of lives Saddam ever did, and they even have less of a military. Are we down there saving the day? No. Why not? Saddam was only one of many leaders in the world today responsible for such things, and certainly not the worst, by any means---------------



This statement is factually incorrect. The situation in the Sudan while horrible cannot compare with the brutality and abuse of the saddam dictatorship. In Iraq we are talking Millions, in Sudan the numbers are far short of that and does not include chemical and biological weapons. As far as old war, new war. All the interactions over time in the Middle East are important and relevant unless your point of view has an agenda sucking the life out of your ability to reason



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 03:24 AM
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This statement is factually incorrect. The situation in the Sudan while horrible cannot compare with the brutality and abuse of the saddam dictatorship. In Iraq we are talking Millions, in Sudan the numbers are far short of that and does not include chemical and biological weapons. As far as old war, new war. All the interactions over time in the Middle East are important and relevant unless your point of view has an agenda sucking the life out of your ability to reason


Sorry, mate. There have been only 190,000 to 200,000 confirmed deaths in Iraq in regards to this. All the other figures were propoganda, and totally unproven. The claims of more deaths have never been backed up by any evidence, even after our invasion and desperate search for bodies.

Most of those deaths are from the Al-Anfal Campaign from 1986 to 1989. See here: en.wikipedia.org...

It took the lives of an estimated 182,000 people. The rest of the numbers are from continuing violence between the various religious groups in Iraq, continuing even to this day.

There is no evidence of any further genocide in Iraq. Like I said, it was all propoganda. See here: www.mediamonitors.net...

In the Sudan, on the other hand, there have been over 2 million deaths so far. When you compare Iraq's 200,000 or less to the Sudan's over 2,000,000, there's no comparison. My initial claim of the Sudan situation being 10x worse stands until there is evidence of further deaths in Iraq. As I've said, we've invaded and our government has desperately searched for this evidence, but it was never found. Just like the WMDs, and the connections to al Qaeda, the bodies were not there. Iraq's genocide count stands at 200,000 or less.



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 04:27 AM
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Originally posted by soulforge
You know, I really, really pray for a quick and quiet three years, a captured Bin Laben and Zarqawi, a gradual troop withdrawl in Afganistan and Iraq, and a nice single term Democrat President( hello Hillary), just so I can stop hearing all of the kook conspiracy theories about 9/11 and Iraq.!!!

I mean, why are all of the political conspiracies aimed at the right? I haven't heard a single decent left aimed conspiracy since Clinton/CIA/Mena airport!?!

Am I to assumed that all left wingers are decent, kindhearted, and upstanding citizens of the world?

Heck, I KNOW there are too many crooked right wingers around, and I AM a right winger.


its probably true they all work togeather in unison
democrats and republicans are to blame for all this mess
both parties are corrupt beyond comprehension
they arent even conservative or liberal anymore
they are both raving lunatics full of lies nowdays

just an observation lol



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 10:13 AM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash
its probably true they all work togeather in unison
democrats and republicans are to blame for all this mess
both parties are corrupt beyond comprehension
they arent even conservative or liberal anymore
they are both raving lunatics full of lies nowdays

just an observation lol


And a very accurate observation IMHO. Allot of people on here do see it that way now thank god, lets just hope we can get the populace to start to wake up too(good luck on that one, tell me how it goes)



posted on Jul, 12 2005 @ 10:21 AM
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Nice Source Mate!

Right Wing News

Very NICE!

Some Highlights:

- Claim: Al-Qaida Nukes Already In U.S. Terrorists, Bombs Smuggled Across Mexico Border By MS-13 Gangsters

- The Iranian Media Has Been Alleging That The London Bombings Were Planned By The West To Justify Attacking Islam In The Name Of Combating Terrorism (Probably TRUE!)

- Conservative Grapevine: If You're Not Reading It, You're Missing Out On Some Of The Best Stories In The Blogosphere

- Pull The Trigger On The Nuclear Option

- RWN's Ann Coulter Interview #2

- RWN's Favorite George S. Patton Quotes

What do You Expect from a Right Wing News Source like That?

You want Politically Correct Right Wing T-Shirts?

Have you had it up to here with Liberals? Are you tired of Political Correctness oozing into every facet of your life? Ever wanted to strike back? Now you can with a shirt that is guaranteed to make you smile while making Liberals squirm. And these shirts make great gifts for family and friends.




posted on Oct, 4 2005 @ 05:38 AM
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Originally posted by darkelf

Originally posted by bsbray11
[The right is pushing for war and fascism. The left simply stalls and delays it.


I find it interesting that the opposite was in force during Vietnam. Kennedy (D), Johnson (D), Nixon (R). Johnson actually escalaleted the war in Vietnam by sending in more troops. Nixon was in office when troops were returning home. War is not partisan, it depends on opportunity and who is in office at the time.


Nixon oversaw the largest escalation of the Vietnam War. Nixon (with Kissinger's prodding) bombed Cambodia, illegally and in secret. Nixon widened the war into Cambodia, threw his whole-hearted support behind Lon Nol after he staged his anti-Sihanouk coup, in what would become a US pattern the defender of democracy world-wide gave its support to a right-wing junta after the overthrow of a democratically elected government. Nixon was president when the largest number of US troops (500,000) were deployed to Vietnam. Nixon was President when US forces were suffering their highest weekly casualty counts.

Without Nixon and Kissinger there would have been no Khmer Rouge or Cambodian genocide.

Go read Sidewhow: Nixon, Kissinger and the Destruction of Cambodia by William Shawcross. His father was British chief prosecutor at Nuremburg.

Bush obfuscated over WMDs. Speaking half-truths is the same as lying. Ommission of unfrendly facts is still lying if it alters your argument.

Yes, Saddam possessed them during the Clinton years, that's why there were no-fly zones, UN weapons inspectors, ecenomic sanctions and occasional bombing campaigns.



posted on Oct, 4 2005 @ 07:34 AM
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Originally posted by bsbray11


I mean, why are all of the political conspiracies aimed at the right? I haven't heard a single decent left aimed conspiracy since Clinton/CIA/Mena airport!?!


Both sides suck. Does that make you feel any more secure?

The right is pushing for war and fascism.


Do you even know what fascism is? Something tells me you are one of these guys who wears Che Geunevera shirts.



posted on Oct, 4 2005 @ 10:46 AM
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Okay, when will everyone realize this is not a sporting event. Left, right, Dem, Repub and so on. Quit falling for that BS, they are the SAME! They are all criminals posing as public servants! Wake up and realize that none of them give a poo about you or I, it's all about the greenbacks.

Mod Edit: Circumvention Of Censors.

[edit on 4/10/2005 by Mirthful Me]



posted on Oct, 4 2005 @ 11:20 AM
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brainpage:

1. Iraq USED chemical weapons repeatedly on Iran and the Iraqi Kurds! Therefore he had them, he made them, and he used them. Only someone with there head in a hole would assume he no longer had them.


Except if they had any scientific knowledge whatsoever, and realized that chemical and biological weapons have a HALF-LIFE. So for instance, after only 6 months the sarin gas is down to 60% purity and is no longer militarily effective.

Iraq lost its' capability to produce chemical and biological weapons in 1991, so anything they had pre-1991 was long gone by 2002.

What was that you were saying about holes in people's heads?


2. Saddam Hussein made it repeatedly clear that his goal was to take over the entire Middle East.


A COMPLETE and UTTER FABRICATION. NONE of his neighbors joined the Coalitions of the Weenies, because they were ALL OF THEM unafraid of him.


4. Saddam Hussein was a horror of a man that was directly responsible for millions of deaths.


And during 90% of this time, he was being SUPPLIED and TRAINED by the United States of America (from the 50's all the way to the very late 80's). So you made him powerful, and then when he became TOO murderous, you had to take him out. See Pol Pot or Suharto for more details.



This statement is factually incorrect. The situation in the Sudan while horrible cannot compare with the brutality and abuse of the saddam dictatorship. In Iraq we are talking Millions, in Sudan the numbers are far short of that and does not include chemical and biological weapons.


Wow, what the heck are you talking about? More people are suffering in Sudan than ever suffered under Saddam. Hundreds of thousands possibly.

Sudan has a population of 40 million, Iraq has 26 million.

And NEITHER includes biological or chemical weapons.

If it WAS all about promoting democracy and freedom, then sure as heck you'd be in Sudan. But no oil, and too many black people or something. So Sudanese people can die.



posted on Oct, 4 2005 @ 12:45 PM
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Originally posted by nathraq



1) George Bush lied about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. This is a charge that has been repeated ad nauseum by opponents of the war, but the claim that Bush "lied" about stockpiles of WMDs doesn't hold up to the least bit of scrutiny


Bush said they were there, we didn't find anything, not a piece of lint. This either makes Bush a liar, or the biggest buffoon of the Western World.


www.americanthinker.com...

Okay, a single tree doesn't make a forest...but 500 tons of wood comes pretty darn close...right? Check out THIS link if you're still wondering whether or not Iraq had the material or capacity to make its own WMDs.

Even the infamous Final Report, which declared there were no WMDs, lists amongst its findings, centrifuge parts buried in one scientists backyard. Gee, who knew?



posted on Oct, 4 2005 @ 01:02 PM
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toelint:

Even the infamous Final Report, which declared there were no WMDs, lists amongst its findings, centrifuge parts buried in one scientists backyard. Gee, who knew?


Haha, for a second there I thought you were serious.

Yellowcake uranium is not a WMD. PARTS of a centrifuge found BURIED in some guys backyard are NOT WMDs.

Or is it that the US is so afraid and paranoid that pieces of a centrifuge buried in some guy's garden for years is enough to make you SCARED and invade?

Your link is funny, too.


The mystery is in what they talked about. A memo obtained by the British – later proven to be a forgery – purported to show the Iraqis were interested in purchasing 500 tons of yellow cake uranium from Niger’s mines. Forgery or not, since Niger’s exports are extremely limited, consisting largely of uranium ore, livestock, cowpeas, and onions, one doesn’t have to be an intelligence analyst to figure out in which one of those items the Iraqis might be interested.


I love the "Forgery or not" part. I mean, obviously if Iraq wants to buy stuff from Niger, they are not going to be interested in cowpeas or livestock, right? Because they're EVIL, SUBHUMAN scumbags who only think of killing and killing and killing.

LOL

And the article states as fact things that are totally unproven.


Never mind that Saddam already had 500 tons of the stuff on hand just waiting for the world to turn its back so that it could be used to jump start his nuclear program.


ROFL

What a Dr Seuss world some people live in.

Too bad after hundreds of millions of dollars and thousands of "boots on the ground" looking, nothing has been found. It means either:

1) Your President is a liar, and told lies that sent your citizens to their deaths.

2) Your President is incompetent and gullible, and believed everything that was told to him, and the misinformation led to the deaths of over 2000 US soldiers.

So, either incompetence or dishonesty. Either way he ought to be impeached.



posted on Oct, 4 2005 @ 09:05 PM
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Originally posted by Dronetek
Do you even know what fascism is?


I know very well what it is. It's a government system not unlike Communism or some hardcore Socialism, except on the other end of the scale: in fascist systems, the state is run by corporations, while in socialist states, the corporations are run by the state. Doesn't make much difference to the people, though, does it? Fascism also retains and puts emphasis upon social classes, whereas Socialism and Communism try to downplay social classes.

Modern republicans, more than anyone, relentlessly back big business and corporations.

"The only difference between Bush and Gore is the velocity with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock at the door." - Ralph Nadar

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Mussolini

"Behind the visible government there is an invisible government upon the throne that owes the people no loyalty and recognizes no responsibility." - Theodore Roosevelt

"These companies, not the lunatic Nazi fanatics, are the main war criminals. If the guilt of these criminals is not brought to daylight and if they are not punished, they will pose a much greater threat to the future peace of the world than Hitler if he were still alive." - Telford Taylor, US-Chief Prosecutor, 1947 Nuremberg War Trial

"As long as I count the votes, what are you going to do about it?" - Boss Tweed

"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think." - Hitler.




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