Religious Psychosis

If you are enthusiastically excited by the end of the world as many religious people are, you are psychotic.

psychotic - losing touch with what is right and wrong.

"Yeah, he's a nice guy, he is just excitedly anticipating the idea of everyone on the planet being killed in a violent & bloody catastrophe."
"No, Really, Its ok! He believes in God"

This is how violent psychotic tendancies are papered over with the apparently serene guise of religion.

People whether they like to admit it or not try to paper over religious mental derangements in the guise of faith.
Denial simply allows religious psychotics to be perceived as reasonable people.

That is how the shield of religion is used to hide the wealth of fanatic adherents to psychotic beliefs and desires.

If wanton destruction turns you on you have lost touch with living reality.

It doesn't bother me if this tendancy is focused solely at yourself, but when it targets other people you have gone out of bounds.

A pyromaniac is someone who is obsessed with fire, losing all contact with or perhaps enjoying the pain and suffering it causes.
Cloaking similar ideas in the guise of religious beliefs does not change what they are.

If in the violent destruction of the World you see your own salvation, redemption and a vitriolic vengance on those who simply did not believe as you believed, you have become desensitized to your own humanity.
You are mentally ill.

Some religions promote the wanton murder of non-believers as an absolute ticket to paradise, this again is psychotic.

When religion becomes more focused on destruction, murder and mayhem than on constructive actions and life affirming ideals it has become a shared psychosis and not a path of spiritual enlightenment.
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well said

extremists come from all sides of the spectrum, they are the whistle blowers, the politicians, the judges...

And the saddest part about it is that they are the most vocal about their opinions. "Un-tamed " Intellectuals and others who can see the big picture tend to be less outspoken that psychotic zealots, and understandably so.

I don't agree with hating many things, but one thing I enjoy hating, and enthusiastically at that, is hatred itself, as well as intolerance. And you definitely summed it up rather well.

I see religion as I see many of the world's ideologies / political theories / dogmas. The theories sound magnificent and the utopias that they construct in our minds are beautiful. But when they reach the point of implementation, unforeseen results are often disastrous and harm humanity in ways that the original creators of these theories never imagined.

The problem is that humans always seek out a clear cut answer for all the problems in their own life and the lives of others.

If they truly believe that they have found this "answer", they end up falling down this slippery slope that eventually leads them to extremism.

Thanks slank, you helped me put into words what I've been trying to say for a long time. These are good threads because they are virtually flame-proof. No one that actually is an extremist will admit it, so they can't really defend it, and the way you worded your post doesn't place the blame on any particular group. (Which, by the way is a classic tactic of extremism).

I think understanding between people of all cultures is the opposite of extremism, needless to say it could solve a lot of problems in the world. Less retaliation and more problem solving.

I also think that we should make this our new propagandist buzzword..."extremism"... "terror" and "freedom" are getting kinda worn out.

good post..
b9

the belief that each and every thinking being on this planet ought to conform to your particular ideology is also considered psychotic.

let each person think what he or she will-- and mind your own business. trust me, it makes life easier.

Slank

You just PO a bunch of people on ATS. God bless You!!

I'm a recovering religious fanatic that let my arrogance keep me from seeing the big picture. Thanks for reminding us of our humanity!

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It is human nature to sometimes become angry and imagine violent things happening to people who [we believe] have upset us.

But how can you build an institution around it and then try to present it as the supposed heights to which humanity should aspire instead of as the lowest side of our animal natures exposed?

It reminds me of a support group for people with violent hatred.
But it isn't there to cure them, but to re-inforce their warped fantasies.

Amazing how many religions always cast themselves in the role of the victim(s) struggling those evil doers out there, . . . . . , well, somewhere. "We will overcome those [fill in the blank, hedonists, Satanists, infidels, Athiests, other evil religion(s)]"

If you have taken reasonable precautions against the usury natures of opportunistic people, usually the person who is most likely responsible for screwing up your life is yourself. Even if it isn't yourself who has screwed it up, you are still the likely best answer to fix it. Rationality holds the highest probability for effective success. Frothing mouthed hatred is more likely a sign of rabies than a solution.

We do seem to have the ability to conjure others into the role of our mortal/moral enemies, often with very little or no cause. Maybe that is the down side of being a species with such extravagant imaginations.

Putting two religions against one another would be better than a pittbull fight, except aren't they really just fighting with the images they have painted the other to be? Like ships passing in the night, they blindly throw death-blow punches that somehow never actually manage to connect. You would think people would figure something out from that.

I may have a darker side too, but at least i'm not looking for institutionalization.
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you sure are sensationalizing religion here, though.

how many of those hellfire and brimstone types do you really see?

be honest, now.

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ever heard of suicide bombers?

Ever listened to that old white haired wild-eyed psycho on the 700 club gleefully breathing excitedly talking about how we are in the 'end times', waiting with baited breath for apocalyptic destruction of humanity?

This is someone [among many others] making big bucks in donations pedalling this caustic tripe. Enough to fund whole television networks and build million dollar mansions for religious apparatchiks.
Many people are eating this up and sending in money to boot.

Jerry Springer is also popular [which eludes me], but at least no one is fooled into thinking that clap-trap about 'making a better world' isn't BS.

The killing of Christians and exotic animals was considered great sport and very popular in Rome, under Nero, but that didn't make it moral, even though many patriotic Romans may have seen it as moral..
The strident talk of this kind of violence and dressing this evil up in religious morality is why no one seems at all concerned that 100,000 Iraqis have died in a war for WMDs that didn't exist.

That is grandscale mass murder. All for either an error or a lie.
But we accept it in large part because they are not western/christian.
Can you imagine if we went to war with a nation in Western Europe and then found out it was a mistake after killing 100,000 Europeans?
There would be an outrage and political heads would roll.

If people had any real moral bearings they would see what a grievious thing that has been done, and as citizens they will pay the costs of that mistake, or their children and grand-children will.

Enjoying the suffering of others is refered to as saddism, religious or not.
Enjoying the murder of others is psychotic.

How about all the people who use the idea of condemnation of non-believers after death as a psychological bludgeon of coercian? Ever heard the vicious glee in a sweet looking little old grey haired lady as she spouts this bile?

The Christian Right Talks about how homosexuality is supposedly an abomination in the bible,
but always selectively neglects the fact that it bars them from getting an interest bearing mortgage on their homes.

Because in the US it is PC to assault the civil rights of gay people on the grounds of religious morality,
While ignoring the bibles edict on killing adulterers and brides found not to be virgins.
Most people in the US 'say' they are against slavery,
but the bible never the less supports it
and the selling of daughters into slavery.

Soft pedal religion any way your want,
It is just a way of hiding the mental illness of the members of many churches.

Social acceptance of religious saddism, doesn't make it a moral thing.

While cruel necessities may exist, to take some illogical joy in them, makes one hardly better than many species of animals.

You don't have to wait till the end of the world to see massive slaughter. If these people really want to see bloodshed on a grand scale, just get permmision to view a slaughterhouse in action. But including other people in one's thoughts of butchery is a sickness of the mind.
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"Religious"Psychosis? As if there many religions that believes in the end of the world, Christianity is the only religion in the whole world that believes in the end of the world.

slank:
If you are enthusiastically excited by the end of the world as many religious people are, you are psychotic.

the world has never seen so much violence, millions of people die every day there are wars all kinds of sickness natural disasters, and its not going to end. The situation only gets worst you probably think like that because you live in America which is the current empire of the world but take a look around the world it is coming to an end and you cant blame christian for it the fate of mankind is in the hand of fools who are Religious Psychosis? luciferians, satanics dont try to twist thing around here do some research.

We cristians are only enthusiastically excited becuse we belive we are going to be saved form the end of the world if by any reason the world ends its not going to be by are doings. so get your facts together and dont generalize.

slank:
The Christian Right Talks about how homosexuality is supposedly an abomination in the bible,
but always selectively neglects the fact that it bars them from getting an interest bearing mortgage on their homes.
Because in the US it is PC to assault the civil rights of gay people on the grounds of religious morality,
While ignoring the bibles edict on killing adulterers and brides found not to be virgins.
Most people in the US 'say' they are against slavery,
but the bible never the less supports it
and the selling of daughters into slavery.

homosexuality is a psychological sickness defended by a rotten and corrupt, immoral, dishonest, and depraved society like America. a pagan society which is in hand of luciferians, satanics, so your way of thinking is a production of there ideals. America was not like that, the people who tried to defend it where kill and will be killed.

slank: While ignoring the bibles edict on killing adulterers and brides found not to be virgins.

this is part of jewish religion the people that currently own your country these are not the ways of CHRIST.

slank:
ever heard of suicide bombers?

suicide bombers dont believe in the end of the world. get your facts together

slank:
Ever listened to that old white haired wild-eyed psycho on the 700 club gleefully breathing excitedly talking about how we are in the 'end times', waiting with baited breath for apocalyptic destruction of humanity?

I am not a psycho and do believe in 'end times' and apocalyptic destruction of humanity which you speek that by the way wil come, but not by the hand of god but by the hand of humans.

slank:
This is someone [among many others] making big bucks in donations pedalling this caustic tripe. Enough to fund whole television networks and build million dollar mansions for religious apparatchiks.
Many people are eating this up and sending in money to boot.

Again these are not the ways of Christ but rather a conspiracy by NWO to try and fool christians.

slank:
The strident talk of this kind of violence and dressing this evil up in religious morality is why no one seems at all concerned that 100,000 Iraqis have died in a war for WMDs that didn't exist.

That is grandscale mass murder. All for either an error or a lie.
But we accept it in large part because they are not western/christian.

you accept it because you are program to accept it and if you were program
to accept western/christian you accept it as well.

slank:
If people had any real moral bearings they would see what a grievious thing that has been done, and as citizens they will pay the costs of that mistake, or their children and grand-children will.

Again people are not in control and will pay the costs for others mistakes.

slank:
Enjoying the suffering of others is refered to as saddism, religious or not.
Enjoying the murder of others is psychotic.

christianity has nothing to do with Enjoying suffering 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

slank:
How about all the people who use the idea of condemnation of non-believers after death as a psychological bludgeon of coercian? Ever heard the vicious glee in a sweet looking little old grey haired lady as she spouts this bile?

Christianity does not condemn non-believers they condemn themselves by rejecting it. Any ways we invented heaven why dont non-believers invent
there own place to go when they die

slank:
Soft pedal religion any way your want,
It is just a way of hiding the mental illness of the members of many churches.

Social acceptance of religious saddism, doesn't make it a moral thing.

While cruel necessities may exist, to take some illogical joy in them, makes one hardly better than many species of animals.

You don't have to wait till the end of the world to see massive slaughter. If these people really want to see bloodshed on a grand scale, just get permmision to view a slaughterhouse in action. But including other people in one's thoughts of butchery is a sickness of the mind.

My Godness what the hell are you talking about i doubt any christian would want to see that. you are a lier and have no prove whatsoever that what you are saying is true. If any thing we the true christians are the only religion willing to fight the people responsible for bloodshed.

Slank, it's nice to see that intolerance doesn't ONLY belong to the religous right anymore. Somewhere in your tossing about of terms like "psychotic", "saddism", "mental illness", did it occur that you might be tossing a little hate speach back? I would also like to see your transcripts from the fine learning institution that gave a doctorate in psychoanylism. You my friend are using the very tool that the worst offenders of religous extremism have used for thousands of years, pick out the worst parts and use it as an example of the whole. Good work, very thoughtfull!!!!!!!

It is often said that we attack what we fear or do not understand.

I'm not a religous person, I don't even believe in a god, but I do understand the role religon plays in society. Religon offers a path to inner peace and also can act as a road map for people feeling confused or lost. Many people out there like recovering alcholoics and drug addicts have used religon to help turn their lives around. For some people the structure and daily disciplines that religon offer are of great value. Would you take that away from those people?

How about the millions of Buddists, Muslims, Hindu's, Jews, Christians, Wiccans, Native American's etc. etc. etc. who have never preached on the street corner or door to door, have never tried to force their values on anyone, have only seeked a path to a richer fuller life? Are all of them sick, or as you stated "psychotic"? Are all the charity organizations that feed the hungry, help the poor, run shelters for battered women, help disaster victims, are the people who donate or volunteer suffering from "mental illness"?

How about the Red Cross, Slank, is the Red Cross "psychotic" because it's origins are of a religous nature?

You can't always put a value on things simply by their costs. Yes many have perverted their religons to do harm to others, but likewise their have been those "enlightened" souls out their who have taken to persecuting the religous. Anything that is the creation of man can be perverted, be it a religon, or be it a movement against religon.

I suggest you read and understand what happens when religon is banished, what it is usually replaced by. Try to understand this term;
Cult of Personality
Yes, the Iraqi people you point out that now have died in numbers greater than 100,000 were forced to live in a secular regime, surrounded by the "Cult of Personality" forced on them by the "enlighted" leader Saddam Hussien. The nation state and it's ruler were god and his judgements were seen everywhere, in the tortue chambers, rape rooms and mass graves.

As I stated before, I DO NOT BELIEVE IN A GOD, so do not write off what I say as being from a "religous nut". In fact I would consider myself what's called a "Weak Atheist" . My only goal in replying was to point out that the stated purpose of ATS is to "Deny Ignorance". It appears Slank, that you may need to study up on exactly what it is you wish to discriminate against before you pass your final judgement.

I do feel that many people who describe themselves as atheists are really just following another religon of sorts. Modern Atheism has all the hallmarks of it at least. The notion of being "enlightened" by your beliefs, the feeling of moral superiority, the ABSOLUTE rejection of any belief other than Atheism, and the classification of supporters of any other beliefs as "heritics" or "psychotic" or "mentally ill". Sound familiar Slank?

To my knowledge Slank, no religon is based solely on violence. It is only the perversion of the religon that gives a madman cover. Atheisim is not immune either, how many people who commit horrible acts will turn to Atheism to avoid facing the guilt or the burden that comes with feeling that you may need to atone for what you've done.

Also on a personal note I hate it when people mix politics and religon. Like equating the war in Iraq and your political beliefs about it with your spiratual beliefs and for that matter someone elses. To say that the loss of life in Iraq is condoned by western religon is a stretch and weak argument made by mixing 3 parts politics with 1 part atheism. Trying to kill 2 birds with one stone, the conservatives and the religous, even though they are sometimes completly different. I don't remember the Pope rooting for war in the middle east, I don't remember any world religous leader doing that in fact. It was the opposite, most prayed for peace.

So if you want to make an argument about religon and an argument about politics, please make two arguments and don't try to fashion them into one. That is how the Romans, the Nazi's, the Communists, and the Terrorists of today have made arguments to persecute other groups. You don't want to fall into that trapped way of thinking.

I see where you're coming from slank and also think the 'end of the world' will not be a happy time at all, rather one of sadness . I've had some visions(?) (highly detailed dreams burned into memory) about it and none of them were reason to celebrate with the witnessing people's sufferings. It put me into a time-crunch that made me realize how important each moment here is.

I do think though, you'd made the point pretty well in the first have of your initial post. All after seems to be a reiteration of that point.

Celebrating Christians may be doing so because they're not seeing the 'end' but rather the moment after the end. There's quite a beautiful promise in Revelation 21. As you said, reveling in death and destruction is sick and reveals the truth behind a person's heart...or lack thereof.

Bottom line - It's each of our responsibility to find out now where we are going to be if there is no tomorrow. Our personal last day could be today.

Pray, train, study,
God bless.


[edit on 11-7-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
Celebrating Christians may be doing so because they're not seeing the 'end' but rather the moment after the end. There's quite a beautiful promise in Revelation 21. As you said, reveling in death and destruction is sick and reveals the truth behind a person's heart...or lack thereof.

Maybe, but don't you think eschatology has something to do with why we're in Iraq right now?

Besides, you get your reward regardless of when the end-times happen, right?

While it's true that not all Christians are giddy about the "end-times", it certainly seems like a large number are these days. I don't know if it's the prospect of not having to die, or the prospect of having all the antagonists wiped away, or the prospect of having one's faith finally vindicated or what, but "psychotic" is an apt label for those who are looking forward to the end while simultaneously believing that the end will be disasterous for all but a small minority.

I have heard many people praying fervently for Jesus to hurry up and come, knowing full well what that would mean for everyone else (in their minds).

It would be interesting to know what percentage of Christians believe in the "end-times", and how many are looking forward to it.

i don't see eschatology as a factor in the war with Iraq, myself.

i don't agree with the war, but i don't think we're over there trying to bring about the end of the world, either... that's just silly.

Originally posted by spamandham
Maybe, but don't you think eschatology has something to do with why we're in Iraq right now?

*flips fervently through the dictionary for eschatology* Nice word, learn something new everyday . Why are we in Iraq? Er, I dunno. I've watched the news just about every day for the past 3 years and I really couldn't tell you. I don't want people to die. Neither Iraqi nor American, neither military nor civilian, neither insurgent nor freedom fighter. "Well saint4God, what do you suggest? What is your solution?" I suppose the day I sit and meet with the president, the U.N. the Iraqi Prime minister and all the other world leaders is the day I'll have an answer to that question.

Originally posted by spamandham
Besides, you get your reward regardless of when the end-times happen, right?

Stop that. I finally understand what it means to love my neighbor and my enemy and you want me to rejoice in watching an unprecedented amount pain and suffering and not care because I have my reward? Now THAT is making me sick.

Originally posted by spamandham
I have heard many people praying fervently for Jesus to hurry up and come, knowing full well what that would mean for everyone else (in their minds).

It would be interesting to know what percentage of Christians believe in the "end-times", and how many are looking forward to it.

Agreed. I'd also like to know why I'm intentionally being put on the polar opposite of that spectrum.

[edit on 11-7-2005 by saint4God]

Evangelicals and Israel: Theological Roots of a Political Alliance

[edit on 11-7-2005 by spamandham]

Originally posted by Sevenstars_777
the world has never seen so much violence,

Allow me to introduce you to a whole stack of information. Earlier times were MUCH more violent than today:
europeanhistory.about.com...

For instance, you can't run off and accuse your neighbor of witchcraft and watch as they were tortured and burned. And speaking of torture, remember that before the 1700's, it was common to torture people as part of a legal trial, and this included pulling out fingernails, castrating, pulling out their intestines (while they were alive) and burning the intestines, marauding bands of soldiers who came back from the Crusades and found there weren't any jobs so they turned outlaw, Black Plague, cholera, tb, constant uprisings of peasants and nobles...
www.tudorplace.com.ar...

And Native Americans would certainly disagree that this is a more violent time than when Columbus came ashore.
en.wikipedia.org...

...the slaughter of the Jews in Germany..

... you can also look up Peasants of Steding, who were killed (perhaps 6,000 of them) for refusing to pay tax to the Church.

Or Rome during any number of time periods, when emperors murdered citizens (and sometimes by the thousands) and vice-versa:
www.exovedate.com...

There's many nice resources on just how brutal and violent previous centuries were. I realize that you may be unaware of them, and perhaps we need to publicize them more. Today is a far less violent time. The peasants of 14th century England would be amazed at (to them) our world of peace.

My Godness what the hell are you talking about i doubt any christian would want to see that. you are a lier and have no prove whatsoever that what you are saying is true. If any thing we the true christians are the only religion willing to fight the people responsible for bloodshed.

You don't see the irony of "fighting" to end bloodshed? You don't need to fight to end bloodshed... you simply need to negotiate nonviolently.

This Christian website certainly says that fighting to end violence is wrong. Perhaps you'd better write and correct your bretheren?
www.brfwitness.org...

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In a perfect world [barf] people would at least try to preserve and enhance other people's lives and hopefully, maybe other species lives.
Its almost nauseating yet to me that is the ideal.

And any sacrifices people make to higher goals and aspirations are done willingly, by choice, and not taken from them as by a kind of r*pe.

I am caustic in my tirades against blind inhumane religion, because sometimes the only tool you have against a forest fire is by burning a back-fire, starving it of the fuel [self-rigtheousness] that feeds it.

And the psychosis of inconsideration to others is definitely not limited to religions. Stalin murdered millions trying to force communism to work. Hitler used hatred against many minorities including jews as the emotional fuel to power his military aggression machine. The list is very long and very wide.

Part of the reason i am comming down on it is because Religion is currently the social/political wildfire that is gaining strength and threatening to mindlessly destroy many of the best things of modern society. And people need to rise up where religion becomes destructive in intent or action with countering self-rigtheous ferver and bring it back to its senses, such that it has.

If religion turns inhumane then it should expect to be rejected by human beings, and if a human being embraces inhumanity they will logically have to be treated as something outside humanity, no longer human. I think at that point you have lost your soul.
Can God save the soul you yourself did not preserve?

If one's after-life reward means more than the existence in which you live and the world you will leave subsequent generations, feel free to go there as fast as you want, but don't screw up this world on your way out the door.

As to the great and terrible degradations of society that are so often asserted by strident members of the religious community, can you come up with any clear data that supports those assertions? Where you have been reasonably able to set aside other possible explanations?

If you can, i and many other athiests, agnostics and doubters would be more than happy to listen. I think most people that are not blinded by some ideology or other want a better society, without of course suffocating it. Maybe most people degenerate into animal actions without a belief in God. Maybe they do that anyway, and keep the window dressings of religion to hide it, making it more perverse. That i really don't know, and it would be nice to have clinical data that gave some clues about that.

Are the moralities and immoralities a given religion creates different than the moralities and immoralities without that religion? ie. is a religion a net plus or a net minus or no change for a society?

The trouble with today's violence is that it has become industrialized. It is remote and can be very unfeeling. From a nuclear silo you could kill millions with a single launch sequence, And then go home and have a nice lunch. to do list: (1) launch, (2) lunch. They are starting to work on VR controlled drones. Someone else's painful violent death is just a video game to you.
Religion [and other ideologies] by alienating some group of people as being outside the group, subjectively de-humanizes them making violence against them seem less terrible.

So between the lowering threshold of ease, distance and more destructive effect of technology and the traditional culture of de-humanizing other people there is a convergence of increasing action almost like a function of physics. Alternately, Ethically, The more power you have, the more carefully you need to be with it.
How often in war has the enemy been cast as baby-killers? mongrels? etc.
Religion uses these same de-humanizing propagandas.
Ever heard, "Those Jews? Muslims? Christians? Gays? Women? Men? God-less Athiests? Infidels"
We all have a tendency to see ourselves as the center of humanity, anyone further from us [the norm] are less human and therefore less worthy of consideration.

Beliefs are like bones. They are somewhat of a burden and somewhat our strength and articulateness. When your beliefs are used as a bludgeon against others it is violence. In the course of events, for survival it may be necessary to use them thus, but it is perfunctory and not moral.

If you forget in verbal or physical violence against another person and what likely effects you are having on another person you have lost/set-aside your humaneness. There may be a few acceptable cirucumstances for this, such as you have pre-determined that this person is a wanton killer, or this person is trying in this instant to kill me or those around me, But short of that, you need to put the brakes on and reflect to see what you have become.
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is if they follow the word of Christ.

Sorry if this burns some people's eyes, but it's entirely relevant. Matthew 5:43 -

"You have heard that is was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven."

So why then, Christian or non, would you be glad to see someone you love suffer and die?

By the way slank, it's starting to sound like you're going through a psychotic episode with this "religion is turning us into robot drones to destroy us" obsession.


[edit on 11-7-2005 by saint4God]

I might have missed this, but Slank do you have any religious background what so ever? Were you raised a particular religion, and then became an atheist or agnostic. Sorry if this questions sound personal but I think it will help me and everyone else understand where your idea of religion is originating from. Feel free to U2U me if you think that it would be "fair" if I explained my take on religion.

[edit on 12-7-2005 by The_Final]

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I think my assertion that there are many psychos that riddle Religious extremist communities and are sheltered and supported by them stands pretty much on its own.

I am not ashamed of my particular background.

I suppose my father as he became disallusioned by Bill Armstrong [if any of you are old enough to remember him] was pretty anti-religious at the time of my formative years. So my early environment was pretty non/anti-religious.

But it is mostly because i am gay and have put up with all the bogus BS of the Religious Right telling me why i am an abomination, an especially heinous sinner. They, due to current social norms, ignore the former sin of pre-marital sex that they didn't use to, children out of wedlock, adultery and many other things, and choose to pick on me and mine. Its hypocracy. Its for plastic suburban phonies. Million dollar Mansion TV preachers, and the idiot poor folks who send them millions in tax-free donations.

Well i am here to tell them what True Righteous is about.
Righteousness doesn't need religion.
It comes directly from our living souls.
It is the gift of a billion years of stuggling living things, that is our inheritence.
It includes 64 billion humans each of whom lived, struggled, had hopes and dreams for their young and/or themselves and died.
Its the dirt under your nails and the blood in your veins.
And i stand for them in all their love, foolishness, grandure, self-sacrifice, and stupidity. Theirs is a drama of life. Their echos are all around us, if we can but see. If you're very quiet you may hear them. You can join the drama with all your heart or hedge your bet and never fully live and breathe. Its your call alone. But is is not a hollow drama, for show, it is the real blood and guts drama inside you. It can be very quiet. You don't have to tell anyone.

I think we have a biological bias for good works, if our early experiences don't steal/destroy it from us or fatigue doesn't overwhelm us.

If heaven is powered by virtue and justice i don't even want to think of where these religious people will end up. The biggest millstone around anyone's neck is themselves. It may operate as a form of physics, not so much the justice we imagine, but the natural order of things. Each thing finds its medium buoyancy.

If you have joy and hope within you, you carry it with you where-ever you go. If you carry a cross in your heart you carry that burden with you where ever you go.

We all perish in the end, if i live in joy maybe i will be strong enough to perish in joy. Something to work for.

I am but a wave in the ocean, let me be a joyful wave. Heck, make it fun! Lets do the wave. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
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Originally posted by slank
So my early environment was pretty non/anti-religious.

But it is mostly because i am gay and have put up with all the bogus BS of the Religious Right telling me why i am an abomination, an especially heinous sinner.

I can understand why you feel the way you do now. But I am sorry if I have missed it but what particular relgions were you classifying as to havine Religious Psychosis. The Catholic Church? Many if not all of the denominations of Christiany? I know that these speak openly agianst homosexuality.


One of my good friends speaks agianst the churchs the same way that you have done for the same reason. I don't take offense when he speaks out, I actually agree with most of what you have said in your last post. Although I don't remember any Church ignoring certain "Sins" such as pre-martial sex, or adultery.

Well thats all for now sorry this post was a lil vague but its just past midnight here.

night