American Police Are Out in Full Force! Do You Feel Protected or Invaded???

Originally posted by Djarums
How interesting this all is.


And buddy let me tell you... if your real gripe here is people getting ticketed because they REFUSE to abide by a democratically passed state law requiring the use of safety belts. Move out of that state.

Is it possible that some places are operating on a quota system or using a heightened police presence to give more tickets? Sure it is. But you have no right to complain about seat belt tickets and the like. If it is the law in your state, you have to wear one. Period.

So if Congress passes a law that is unconstitutional ... then i should have to abide by it without question? Is that what you are saying? Because you sound like a sheep. Remember that there were laws protecting Slavery, that doesn't mean that the LAW was right.

As a citizen of The United States of America, it is MY responsibility to keep a watchful eye on my own government. When the forefathers wrote the constitution they seperated the balance of powers, and warned us that one day we could be fighting against tyranny here in our own country.

The 2 party system has failed. When 1 Party controlls the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches of Government, where is the balance of power?

So if Congress passes a law that is unconstitutional ... then i should have to abide by it without question? Is that what you are saying? Because you sound like a sheep.

I'm gonna do my best to do this in a non-nasty way. Even though you headed off in that direction with your petty "sheep" comment. I'll address it in a civilized way without insulting you. Just because I don't take to the streets with "fight the power" signs does not make me "sheep" nor will you use that term to refer to any member of ATS.

First of all, the seat belt law is what i was talking about. It was passed by the properly elected state representatives of the state it is relevant to. If you do not like the law, you are welcome to make that your platform and run for office with the intent of overruling and repealing it. It is not up to you, a disgruntled citizen who refuses to listen to a law that saves his own rump in a car accident, to decide what is or is not "constitutional".

Do you know anything about how our government is set up? We do not have 250 million legislators. You elect representatives to act in your interests and pass laws reflecting what's best for the people. If they don't do that, they get voted out.

You can not decide for yourself that the seat belt law is unconstitutional and decide that no one is allowed to pull you over and enforce it. You can disagree with it, as it is your right to do so, but that does NOT mean you can decide it should not be enforced.

If you wish you may petition the court system of your state to do that.

It is not within your rights to make the decision for the rest of your state which laws are/are not constitutional and which laws are/are not enforceable. We have a system invented 200+ years ago that addresses this. We do not have 250 million Supreme Court Justices.

A country of your design would be very interesting.

Incidentally, if you're going to use the argument that all laws are corrupt because someone other than those you like is in power now there's really nothing to discuss here. Shockingly, different parties have controlled different branches of government over the last 200 years, and holy crap we're still around.

[edit on 7-13-2005 by Djarums]

Wheretohide, again you have to realize you are making a mountain out of an anthill. If they were to pass a law that the majority of people in the U.S. thought was blantly unconstutional then there would be an outcry by the masses of american people. They have not done this though. There are really no laws that currently affect your way of life/freedom. A seat belt law hardly does that.
The only possible laws i can think of that might do this are the laws against gay marriage as they are based on religion when it comes down to it. Maybe they are or are not right when it comes to spirituality but then that depends on what someone believes in spiritually. Personally I feel gays should be able to marry as even if it is or is not wrong spiritually, it's not up to me or anyone else to "enforce" on someone else how they should live if they are not hurting anyone else. Even if I or someone else may believe it is wrong, it is not up to me to say that another person has to believe what I believe in.
On a larger scale that is why the terrorist are doing what they are doing, because they believe that things should be done in the way that the religion they believe in says they should be done (that and other things of course).
However, other then the laws against gay marriage, what other laws out there can you actually say interfers with our freedom in a way that actually affects our way of life?
Again a seatbelt law hardly does that, you know?

[edit on 13-7-2005 by GREGNOW]

Originally posted by Djarums
We do not have 250 million legislators. You elect representatives to act in your interests and pass laws reflecting what's best for the people. If they don't do that, they get voted out.

You can not decide for yourself that the seat belt law is unconstitutional and decide that no one is allowed to pull you over and enforce it. You can disagree with it, as it is your right to do so, but that does NOT mean you can decide it should not be enforced.

If you wish you may petition the court system of your state to do that.
[edit on 7-13-2005 by Djarums]

I do see what you are saying. The thing is, I guess I see why the system is so flawed by design. We live in a world and in a time where a TRUE Democracy can exist. For the first time in history we have the technology to make this dream a reality.

The problem I have with the seatbelt law is that my greatest value of all is my Freedom. I believe it is my birthright. When the government tells me that I can no longer decide for myself what is best for me, yeah it angers me.

I guess I believe in a world where there is More Freedom. The Freedom of Choice. To be able to do whatever you think is in your best interest as long as it doesn't infringe upon anyone else's freedoms.

Maybe I am just an idealist, or maybe more people should pay attention to the world they think they live in and the one that they actually do live in.

Originally posted by GREGNOW
Wheretohide, again you have to realize you are making a mountain out of an anthill. If they were to pass a law that the majority of people in the U.S. thought was blantly unconstutional then there would be an outcry by the masses of american people. They have not done this though. There are really no laws that currently affect your way of life/freedom. A seat belt law hardly does that. [edit on 13-7-2005 by GREGNOW]

The fact that there isn't an outcry is more of a reflection of people's knowledge of their rights, then it is proof of not infringeing on said rights.

In King County, WA, we just got a new police commisioner. The first thing he did was change the law so that no seat belt was grounds for pulling someone over as opposed to grounds for a ticket after being pulled over.

I understand that seat belts save lives, however it is my right to endanger myself.

Who, other than myself do I endanger by not wearing a seatbelt?

How much more revenue is generated by this law?

Why is it that they can do nothing for you if your car is stolen, yet they are more than willing to give you a ticket for no seat belt?

I'll tell you, there is no money in solving petty crimes.

They should never have the right to pull you over for small things like no seat belt.

I was once pulled over for not signalling 100 feet before turning because I signalled at the red light.

I was told by the cop that he couldn't ticket me for it, yet he pulled me over because of it.

That is outrageous.

I have been pulled over and asked if they could search me numerous times, without probable cause.

That is a violation of my rights, isolated or not.

Originally posted by GREGNOW
You can NOT get a ticket from a cop unless you actually did something that deserved the ticket.

My wife has received computerized tickets from towns she was Never in
The first time she just paid off the ticket as the court date was while she was out of country.
The Second time she fought the ticket, and over 100 people in front of her fighting their tickets
were let go just like she was. The court's excuse "computer error".
She and the other 100 people lost a day's pay, and this has happened twice to her alone!

Two days after fighting the ticket, and winning, she is pulled over ticketed again for
a non working left turn single (after making a RIGHT turn!), just two hours after getting her car tuned up at a garage.

This amounts to Racial profiling something that the police of New Jersey are infamous for.


So don't tell people you can't get ticketed without a reason, because that is an outright lie.

Innocent people's homes have been raided, innocent people have died, the cops don't even
lose their jobs for killing innocent people, they get paid leave. You try to commit the same
crimes and get the same treatment!







[edit on 14-7-2005 by Legalizer]

You guys think what you want "oh yeah, I got nothing to hide, let em search my car no problem." You know I've never had anything to hide any time a cop has pulled me over. Yet twice they tried to bully me into a search of my vehicle after they pulled me over for a speeding ticket. I pulled out of my pocket a little thing called my fouth amendment right. I told the cop on each of the two times that I'd be happy for him to search my vehicle with a warrant. One of the two times the cop just let me go, the other time the cop got really mad and started claiming to "smell marijuana" which is funny because I've never done that in my life. So he sat me in his car for awhile, probably decided he might look like a fool getting a warrant and bringing the drug dogs out for nothing, then let me go without a search. I don't trust most cops as they might plant some coc aine in my car or something and I go to jail for four years, NO WAY I'm letting that happening. I don't care if next time they go through with it and I have to wait 3 or 4 hours for a warrant, and it ends up being a complete waste of time for them, I don't do any drugs or do anything illegal so that's their problem. As long as I still have my freedom I plan to use it.

[edit on 14-7-2005 by NoJustice]

LEGALIZER, I do hear what you are saying about "racial profiling" as that does happen, however in my point about cops not being able to give you a ticket for something you do not deserve the ticket for, I still stand by that. If your wife got a ticket for her left turn signal not working then it must not have been working. If it was working then all she would have to do is show the cop right there and then that it is working. I find it very hard to believe that if your wife is showing the cop that her turn signal works and he is looking right at it, that he is still going to give her a ticket saying it is not working.
If in the very unlikely case that he still gives her a ticket, then all she would have to do is get his badge number (on the ticket anyway) and then go to his precint and show his supervisor that she just got the ticket but that her turn signal is working. The cop would then be called in for questioning on the matter, plain and simple.
She may have indeed been pulled over because of her race (which is wrong) but that has nothing to do with getting ticket's for something that does not exist, which is not happening.
Also a computer error has nothing to do with cops giving out tickets in her other case.

NOJUSTICE,
First off the cops are probably asking to search your car because of youe attitude towards them (and possiblly because of the area you were pulled over for speeding in).
First off you state you "carry a copy of the 4th amendment around in your pocket". Well, anyone who is carries that around is probably looking for trouble in the first place. What "normal" person carries around the 4th amendment or the constitution in their pocket? That is not normal. The type of person that does that is looking for a confrontation with authorites and waiting for the chance to whip out the amendment from his pocket which means he probably has an attitude when pulled over by a cop.
You also show your abnormal paranoia by saying that you feel most cops would try to plant coc aine in your car. That statement does not even make sense.
First off most cops are not just carrying drugs on them. Second they are in no way concerned with planting it in the average citizens car to "send them away for 4 years".
The only time a cop may plant drugs in someones car is if they know the person is a drug dealer that needs to be off the streets (i am not saying that planting drugs is right, but that is the situtation it would happen in). They may also do it, if they have had a lot of run in with a person and the cop does not like the person (which again is not right).
They more then likely wanted to search your car because of your paranoid and definate attitude towards them (which is clear you have by your own statements about carrying the 4th amendment in your pocket and the statement that you actually think most cops are planting coc aine in the average citizens car).
A paranoid and defiant attitude is often a sign to cops that people have something to hide (even though you may have nothing to hide). It is then the cops duty to ask to search your car and see how you react which is then another sign to them.
The majority of cops in America are not out to get the average citizen. The fact is that you and others are disapointed that this is true as it gives you nothing to yell about as you then feel you have some higher purpose to "fight the power" or something. The truth is that the "power" is not interested in "fighting" you, the cops are there to protect the community. And again cops do not give out tickets to someone unless they actualy have a reason. You got pulled over for speeding and then you got a ticket for it, plain and simple. I would not even doubt with your paranoia and attitude that you actually try to get pulled over so you can then whip out your 4th amendment that you carry in your pocket (again, not normal for a normal person).
Does our "Gov't". do things it should not do? Yes, but that has nothing to do with the cops of america and so far the Gov't. has not doen anything that is afecting the average citizens freedom and way of life. The cops are not out to get the average citizen. Do some cops harrass or do racial profiling? Yes, but not the majority and even the ones that do can not give out a ticket unless there is a reason for the ticket.


[edit on 15-7-2005 by GREGNOW]

I'll be real honest, I don't care what you think. It's the law, and if you choose to let a cop search your vehicle with due processing that's your mistake, not mine. You may as well go start one of those shows that shows cops beating people and they talk down on the citizens like we're cattle. Police have too much power in the first place, so I honestly don't care so save your lectures.

I've only called the cops once when I needed them. I lived in an apartment and my roommates truck was in my neighbors way. He neighbor starting yelling at my roommate, by the way my neighbor was a convinced felon who sold drugs. But we had always been civil. I simply went out there and just asked him to cool down. He pulled a knife on me. He told me he had a gun in his house and that he was going to get it. My girlfriend called the cops and because he was on probation he took off running. The cop didn't bother to go chase him, he LECTURED ME for even talking to him. He said I didn't know what neighborhood he came from. He did nothing to try and catch him. So DON'T TELL ME that I should lay down and kiss cops a** when they don't give a rats a** about solving crimes they only care about messing with citizens and giving tickets. If you love cops so much go be on I really don't care.

[edit on 15-7-2005 by NoJustice]

Originally posted by Where2Hide2006
Its obvious to me Lanotom that this is More than in previous seasons. I have been living here at the Jersey Shore all of my life and I have never seen it this bad. I have always seen increased activity in the summer, but comeon they are everywhere! They are like locusts.

Its almost like the cops are the wolves hunting in packs just sitting on the side of the road, until they see their pray. While us, Deer, are just moving along hoping not to get pulled over. Its a little scary... and I have no reason to be worried.

And it doesn't make me feel any safer from terror... just more affraid of my government.

I totally agree. I too live in NJ. Toms River Area. I have a 1 1/2 hour commute to work each day and have absolutely noticed the increase of police presence pulling over people. Just yesterday a co-worker (his father is a state trooper) sent this email around:

"Just an FYI...

New Jersey will launch a 30-day speeding ticket frenzy. The state estimates that 9 million dollars will be generated in speeding tickets. 1 million will go to pay state troopers overtime. There will be 50 state troopers on duty at all times patrolling the 9 main intersections and highways.

They are the following:
I-295 north and south
1-95 (Jersey Turnpike) north and south
1-80 east and west
I-287 north and south
I-78 east and west
I-195 east and west
1-280 east and west
Rt. 130 north and south
Garden State Parkway north and south

Now 5 mph above the limit can justify a ticket and every state trooper is supposed to pull a car over and write a ticket every 10 minutes. They have issued 30 brand new unmarked Crown Victoria cruisers and they are bringing all their part timers on full time."


So yeah I agree...

Peace

Djarums, regardless of how the government is set up, and I do know how it was set up, any law that is unconstitutional, no citizen is obligated to abide, and no court is obligated to enforce.

Not my words, but the Supreme Court, some decades ago.

Keep in mind something very important; especially when you're dealing with motor vehicle statutes, if you step off your constitutional flagstone, they will not only eat your lunch, but they'll do it in a way so that others watching will surely want to hide their lunch.

[edit on 15-7-2005 by Thomas Crowne]

NOJUSTICE, you obviously do care what i think or you would not bother to post back to what i said.
Also like i said you have a paranoid and defiante attitude. Cops are not out to get YOU, so sorry that you have no purpose "to fight the power", i know this makes you disapointed. Find something constructive to do and help your community or somethiung instead of complaining about things that do not even exist.
You say it's my "mistake" if i let a cop search my car? Why would i be making a mistake? i have nothing to hide and (unlike you) I KNOW the cop is not going to "plant drugs" in my car just for the hell of it. Get real already.
Also i never said i "was in love with cops". I am simply pointing out the paranoia YOU have about cops and the reason there is no reason to have it (or at least why the average citizen as no reason to have it).
I do respect most cops though as they have to deal with paranoid people like you that have unwarrented defiante attitudes.
instead of crying about things you wish were true (that are not), go do something constructive, useful and helpful for your community.


[edit on 15-7-2005 by GREGNOW]

SERUM39, remember the original statement of this thread though. The author is trying to make it sound as though the cops are out in full force and infringing on the average citizens rights, which is not happening. Cops are not just pulling people over and giving them tickets whitout a reason.
Are they out in a larger force in NJ as you say? Yes they are, but that is NOT infringing on anyones freedom or rights. If people are not speeding, they are not going to get a ticket. Is it a "scam" to generate more money? Probably, but it is still not infringing on anyones freedom, rights or way of life.
Would i myself be pissed off if i got a ticket on the highway for only going 5mph over the limit? Yes, i would but it is still not affecting my freedom, rights or way of life. Plain and simple i broke a driving law that i was clearly aware of so i get a ticket.

I've never been pulled over for anything I didn't deserve. I live near Trooper barracks off of Rt. 80 and have seen an increase at times. Though I don't mind being stopped at DUI check points....or what ever kind of check points they actually are. They are few and far inbetween.

Another thing I'd like to point out is that if the cops were not more "vigil" or "paying more attenion" to certain things after 911, you same people on here crying about things that do not exist would be the same ones crying if an attack happened in or around your city and prior to it the cops were not being more "aware" of things.
First everyone was crying about the Gov't. not being careful enough about attacks before 911 and now since the Gov't. is trying to be more aware, you same people are crying about that. The Gov't. has not done anything yet to infringe on your way of life or freedom. The only thing they have done so far is step up awareness and impliment certain actions to try and prevent future attacks.
Until they actually do start infringing on your freedom and rights, stop crying about things that they are not even doing yet (if they even ever will).
I am NOT a big fan of the current Gov't. we have in power, but so far they have NOT done anything to infringe on the average citizens freedom or rights. And the cops have not done anything like this either, so stop making mountains out of anthills.

protected or invaded ?

thats easy. as a law abiding good guy with a white hat, I feel protected. if you have something to hide, thats your problem.

You should see the hercules teams in NYC. don't mess with those dudes !

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
as a law abiding good guy with a white hat, I feel protected. if you have something to hide, thats your problem.

I have nothing to hide. The problem I have is that the Cops are hiding behind their badges and finding new ways to get around the 4th Amendment. The Government hired more cops because of terrorism, then why are all the cops trying to generate more money for the government by handing out tickets. In New Jersey there are several areas when the majority of the population is Middle Eastern and Pakistani. I want the extra cops to be there and watching them...not sitting on the side of the road waiting to give someone a ticket.

There is no stopping terrorism. The sooner people realize this the better off we'll all be. They're slowly making the police state a reality. It's almost too cliched to bother explaining. Bomb goes off, police come out. Another bomb goes off, more police come out. Another bomb goes off, Iran gets attacked. Another bomb goes off, they suspend rights.

Has any search anywhere in the world turned up a bomb or bona-fide terrorist? What is going on out there? I don't watch TV so I'm not clued in as well as some of you are.

Terrorism cannot be stopped. They will search and seize at will in the name of stopping terrorism, WHICH CANNOT BE STOPPED. Better start building bigger prisons, they're going to be getting fuller and fuller.

Greater "security"=less freedom.

And don't give me this "what do you have to hide why do you care if there are more police and more pull overs--are you a terrorist?"

Give us a break. Get out of the middle east now and the "terrorism" will stop. The US/UK is the real facilitator of terrorism. The New World Order is what they want and that's what they'll get come hell or high water.

"Has everyone in this country lost their #ing minds?" ---George Carlin

some of you people really are just making up things that do not exist. First off where are there any reports of the cops now doing more searches of peoples cars on a mass level?
It's not even happening. Have searches increased? Of course, because of the attacks. But it's not like the cops are now pulling massive amounts of average citizens over just to search their cars. They are not even doing in mass amounts after they pull someone over for speeding tickets.
Cops search peoples cars when the people give them signs that a search search should be conducted.
Signs that a lot of you would be giving a cop with your paranoid and defiante attitudes towards the cops. If a cop pulls you over for a speeding ticket and you are not giving the cop an attitude and you are not in a drug area of town or you do not appear to be on drugs or drinking then you are more then likely not going to have your car searched.
Please show me where cops are just pulling people over in mass quantites and searchiing their cars.

Originally posted by GREGNOW
some of you people really are just making up

We're not making this up. Where are from? This isn't happening there yet?