I am going with Mr Lincoln.
Hes always getting a bad rap from the historical revisionists casting the south as a victim.

Originally posted by EastCoastKid

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
We'll leave the voting open for two weeks to give the poll maximum exposure.

Excellent!

Masked Avatar's idea killz!

Yes, absolutely....everybody must stay a-BREAST of the situation, dontcha know.

Sorry....this crazy Canuck couldn't resist.

Lincoln should have been drug out of the White House and shot in the street.

Most of you who complain about our rights being taken away and America becoming a police state can trace it all back to good old "honest" Abe.

He destroyed the Country our Founding Fathers intended and replaced it with what we have now. And spare me the "freeing the slaves" crap, he stated MANY times the South could KEEP them if they stayed in the Union.

The slavery issue was 1860s WMD ie just a lie to get the public on board.

I dont want to hi-jack this thread so if any want to debate this I will take it up on another thread

Sorry Grady

Yall go back to voting now

Originally posted by Amuk
Lincoln should have been drug out of the White House and shot in the street.

'

You're right Amuk. Shooting the man in Ford's Theatre just gave the theatre a bad name. Dragging him outside before shooting him would have been much better for the nation and thespians worldwide.

I'm casting my vote for Edison--mainly because

1) I like listening to music, and he basically got that ball rolling with the phonograph.

2) I like being able to see when it's dark.

3) He indirectly invented the diode, which in turn led to the transistor, which eventually made it possible for us to have most of the modern conveniences we take for granted. Had it not been for that, we wouldn't have computers through which to host this poll, nor to vote. Of course, everyone knows Al Gore created the internet, so might have to take that into consideration too...

4) I'm a nerd; inventions generally strike me as more interesting than politics most of the time.

On a side note, I would like to see more info regarding what you--Amuk--were talking about Lincoln. I'd never heard anything but massive praise for him, but of course I've never really seen much reason to learn more than the usual stuff needed to pass a history test in school. Anywhere I could read more about that perspective?

EDIT: wording

[edit on 7/19/2005 by MCory1]

double post

[edit on 19-7-2005 by Amuk]

Amuk is basically saying he would rather have seen the United States disintigrate than stay together and become the power it is today. I respectfully disagree with that position.

And I do understand those issues regarding Lincoln and civil liberties. We have the luxery of evidence (of Lincoln's actions) to support that when there was an end to armed conflict, Lincoln directed the powers he had assumed in war be rescinded. Legal normalcy was restored.

History proves he did the right things.

The voting is closed.

George Washington Carver-0
Howard Zinn-2
Norman Borlaug-1
James Madison-2
Lieutenant General Lewis Burwell (Chesty) Puller, USMC-0
Huey P. Newton-1
John F Kennedy-3
Abraham Lincoln-5
Anna Nicole Smith-1
David P Schippers-1
Grandma Bailey-0
Ronald Reagan-2
Thomas Edison-2


There you have it folks. Abraham Lincoln has won the ATS Greatest American of All Time poll by a whopping two votes ahead of his nearest contender John Fitzgerald Kennedy.

Thanks for that excellent thread.

You managed it well and it was interesting as well as educational. I just wish more people would have seen it and participated.

Good job to all who participated, too.

I've asked Skeptic Overlord and the Council to consider giving us a poll forum in PTS. I've used this thread as an example, too.

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
I just had to say, the next time you openly joke about the shooting of one of our presidents, do not get offended if you hear likewise disrespectful talk of Bush in the future. Or any other.

I couldnt care less what you say about Bush or Clinton, or Reagan or who ever, its a free country (kinda)

where did you get the idea I was a GW worshiper? It couldnt have been from any of my posts


PS.....

who said I was joking



[edit on 24-7-2005 by Amuk]

Originally posted by Amuk
I couldnt care less what you say about Bush or Clinton, or Reagan or who ever, its a free country (kinda)

What do you mean by kinda?

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
What do you mean by kinda?

I am reserving judgement till after they implment the Patriot Act 2

Originally posted by Amuk

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
What do you mean by kinda?

I am reserving judgement till after they implment the Patriot Act 2

Nice out.

James Madison, no question.

Of the other three presidents mentioned, the first (Lincoln) brought us the Civil War and the draft. He played King George to the Southerners' desire to sdecede (which the United States had done 85 years earlier) and was, in fact the first of the fascist imperialist presidents. The second president (Kennedy) never sponsored a single piece of legislation of any long-term consequence, and, aside from being the point man for America's space triumphs in the sixties, did absolutely nothing for this country that I can think of. The third, Reagan is the best of the three, in that he (along with Karol Wojtyla) pretty much dismantled the Soviet empire, but he's not quite in the same level as Madison.

Borlaug and Carver did wonders in their time to make America the food basket of the world, and certainly Edison is a great inventor.

As for the rest of the people mentioned --- well, I am sure that there really are people out there who think that Zinn and Newton are great Americans, but there are also people out there who like pepperoni-flavored ice-cream, too.

And as much as it grieves me to disagree with my esteemed colleague and fellow veteran (even though he's a jarhead), if you're going to pick a 20th century military man for 'greatest American', I'd go with Eisenhower's boss, General George C. Marshall, or even the original military Program Manager, General Leslie Groves.

Dunno, sounds like Amuk is all for States Rights. Less big government, more little government. Remove the federal laws, and institute state governments with a central body used to defend the whole (military), and judge against the constitution. Make us into a federation, of sorts, instead of a republic.

Lincoln did wonders to end that debate, though. I think that's what he's getting at. That debate was huge for about 75 years in this country, and culminated with the civil war. Yep, that's what I'm saying, you didn't misread me. The Civil War was about states rights, slavery was just the catalyst. Abe wanted a strong central government. He wanted the nation run by the government. You can see that through the poor management of the civil war and just about every other war, or rather police action since. Politicians ran the show, not the people in the know. You can even see elements of that in WWI and WWII, though not so severely as in Vietnam.

So Amuk's for states rights, so far as I interpret his words. If I interpreted right, all I can say is:

Though the means...It really did seem like Lincoln was going to pull what Rooseveldt did with Germany, but instead his replacement pulled a European nation vs. Germany via WWI. I think we would have been better off had Lincoln not been shot.

Oooo...Too early?