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Albert Pike was a Rambling Fool

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posted on Jul, 9 2005 @ 08:49 PM
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Has anyone actually ever read Albert Pike's "Morals and Dogma" so-called "masterpiece". And I'm not talking about that "flipping-through-pages-randomly-and-pulling-out-a-quote-here-and-there-nonesense", I'm talking about really read it. From cover to cover. Well, I've managed to get through the first 3 chapters or so and that was enough for me. So if you ever want some material that is good for boring late at night and causing you to go to sleep, well, this is the book.

Also, I've heard that Albert Pike was a real cheater, he plagiarizes all through that 900-page book. Half of it is plagirism. Can you beleive that? Also, Albert Pike led savages in the civil war to do "war crimes" that I won't even mention (look it up if you want) Thats all, I just wanted to share this with you.




posted on Jul, 9 2005 @ 09:06 PM
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Originally posted by ghostdog007
... I've heard that...


I've heard that just about anything can and will be posted on ATS...

Werd.

Grapevine Monkeys, not just for hearing it through anymore...



posted on Jul, 9 2005 @ 09:31 PM
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Originally posted by ghostdog007
Has anyone actually ever read Albert Pike's "Morals and Dogma" so-called "masterpiece". And I'm not talking about that "flipping-through-pages-randomly-and-pulling-out-a-quote-here-and-there-nonesense", I'm talking about really read it. From cover to cover. Well, I've managed to get through the first 3 chapters or so and that was enough for me. So if you ever want some material that is good for boring late at night and causing you to go to sleep, well, this is the book.


It's only boring to the kind of people who don't have the required intellect to read it. I wonder where that places you...?




Also, I've heard that Albert Pike was a real cheater, he plagiarizes all through that 900-page book. Half of it is plagirism. Can you beleive that?


Actually Pike used lots of quotes and parts from other texts and works because he was writing about the cultures and religions on which those texts were based. But he didn't plagiarize those, if I am not mistaken full recognition was given to the authors and sources.



Also, Albert Pike led savages in the civil war to do "war crimes" that I won't even mention (look it up if you want) Thats all, I just wanted to share this with you.


Somehow I doubt you even know what a war crime is.



posted on Jul, 9 2005 @ 09:45 PM
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I have read a few of Albert pikes Books , and i found them to be very well written. He was a good man regardless what anyone thinks. I enjoy his books and Manly P Hall. I would recommend these books to anyone searching for real truth and understanding. I suppose it all depends on whos doing the reading.



posted on Jul, 9 2005 @ 09:53 PM
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Can we really be this rude to other members? How the hell do you know about the 'level of his intellect' mason? How about the level of your courtesy which I see as severely lacking.



posted on Jul, 9 2005 @ 10:08 PM
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I agree to no "better-man" in my understandings insult
the intelligence of another for sharing a different opinion.



I have not read Pike, but I think that his affiliation
with KKK is very problematic.


Now..don't panic.


This is nothing to do with conspiracy,
but just the foolish entrapment
of american men during a certain
period of their histories.


It could be as possible that none of
this appear in this book, like
no anti-semitism appear in the works
of great artists who in fact, were.


I would laugh loud at kkkfied America today because
that would be very retrograde with the direction
that the mindfull are taking, that the next step in humanity
is obligatory intercultural.


Just like your local YMCA is.


Cheers,

Cedric Dephi



posted on Jul, 9 2005 @ 10:18 PM
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Also...

I know that Af-Am people have been trying
to put the statue down in Washington.


They are a lot of Af-Am in Washington,
so it's probable that within 20
years they will succeed.


You cannot refuse to face
ethics forever.

Pike is barely over a century old.

He could well be sacrificed one day
by the congregation for a
less embarassing figure.


Anything is possible



Cedric Phidel



posted on Jul, 9 2005 @ 11:24 PM
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Originally posted by Centiment
I have not read Pike, but I think that his affiliation
with KKK is very problematic.


Can you find any evidence that Albert Pike was affiliated with the KKK? No one else has been able to...



posted on Jul, 9 2005 @ 11:41 PM
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Originally posted by twitchy
Can we really be this rude to other members? How the hell do you know about the 'level of his intellect' mason? How about the level of your courtesy which I see as severely lacking.


Oh and I suppose "Albert Pike was a rambling fool" is NOT a statement designed to rile up other members? You think THAT'S courtesy, thespian?

I never claimed to KNOW the level of his intellect, I am only assuming that he finds Pike's Morals & Dogma boring and poorly written because he does not possess the mental capacity to absorb and assimilate what Pike was trying to say. I wouldn't write a thesis on it, just an assumption.

And while we have you here, twitchy, I would like to help Mirthful Me out by reminding you that you had promised to provide scanned "proof" of a rather absurd claim you made regarding what Freemasonry instructs its members to do in the thread titled "Is there special treatment for Masons from Masons". Were you kidnapped by Iraqi insurgents? Did your dog east the scans? Or did you simply forget to provide these scans for us, like you so adamantly assured us that you would?



And yes Mirth, the scans are comming, so take xannax or something.
I don't make a habbit of lying.


I know this is not the topic of the thread, but you left me with no choice since you did not return to the thread in question. Here's a link to the thread, incase you conveniently forgot:

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jul, 9 2005 @ 11:51 PM
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I will let the Af-Am find it, I am no specialist on the affair.


Afterall, Wikipedia only describes him as advocate to slavery.



It is something I heard very often, so let's just say that I am
victim of anti-mason conspiracy.


But I guess you would fight at the feet of the statues
forever instead of questioning wrether your congregation
shouldn't opt for a more irreprocheable representant.


Sometimes...what really happened from
what goes in public opinion are two different
things. The freemasons are historically
expert at understanding this.


Maybe if there was a big hollywood film
tomorrow showing Pike falling in love with
an Af-Am or a native woman, that would
you could evitate these problems.


Do you have evidences that you
know absolutely everything about
your congregation ?





Cheers,


Cedric Phi



posted on Jul, 10 2005 @ 12:16 AM
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It's only boring to the kind of people who don't have the required intellect to read it. I wonder where that places you...?


I have to agree with you, because it says in the preface that the entire work was esoteric and to be honest with you, I have no knowledge of the arcane, nor do I care about such nonsense. It was once said that Albert Pike was notoriously known to worship the devil, he would where rings on each finger thinking this gave him some sort of powers. Anyway, its all nonsense.
I don't believe Albert Pike was affiliated in any way with the KKK, because their main insurgence came long after he was dead.
Also, Mr. Pike was responsible for treason during the war. If this isnt a war crime than I dont know what is. Also, he was responsible for some of the most despicable and vile massacres when he led an army of Native Americans.
Albert Pike had ideas to destory the U.S. with Aaron Burr. They were both traitors. It was all wishful thinking however. Albert Pike fantacized about a WWIII. He was an egotistical Don Quixote in my opinion.



posted on Jul, 10 2005 @ 12:19 AM
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Originally posted by Centiment
Afterall, Wikipedia only describes him as advocate to slavery.


He was an advocate of slavery and was racist, did not believe blacks should be masons, but he later repented for his behavior and even helped to establish one of the first black Prince Hall masonic lodges in the U.S.



It is something I heard very often, so let's just say that I am
victim of anti-mason conspiracy.


Unfortunately anti-masonry has had a strong voice in the US. I don't blame you, but I do expect intelligent people to do more research before passing on unsupported rumors and myths.



But I guess you would fight at the feet of the statues forever instead of questioning wrether your congregation shouldn't opt for a more irreprocheable representant.


Albert Pike is NOT a representant of Freemasonry. He was/is really only important to Scottish Rite masons in the Southern jurisdiction of the United States. Most other masons could give a rat's behind about him.



Do you have evidences that you know absolutely everything about
your congregation ?


You know that this is impossible to provide evidence for, so why ask a rhetorical question? I know that the anti-masons have absolutely no evidence of their claims, and I also know that the argument you just provided is THE ONLY argument that conspiracy theorists have to support ANY of their claims. Absurd.



posted on Jul, 10 2005 @ 12:37 AM
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>>>THE ONLY argument that conspiracy theorists have to support ANY of >>>their claims. Absurd.



Really ? Lol...I thought it was ONU started by France freemasonry, Nato,
or Washington's presidency...Or the Pyramid on the dollar bill...stuff like that.


Anything that bypasses democracy, however great the intentions,


Cedric Phi



posted on Jul, 10 2005 @ 10:19 AM
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Originally posted by ghostdog007
Has anyone actually ever read Albert Pike's "Morals and Dogma" so-called "masterpiece". And I'm not talking about that "flipping-through-pages-randomly-and-pulling-out-a-quote-here-and-there-nonesense", I'm talking about really read it. From cover to cover. Well, I've managed to get through the first 3 chapters or so and that was enough for me. So if you ever want some material that is good for boring late at night and causing you to go to sleep, well, this is the book.


ghostdog,

While your initial post has all the outward trappings of "baiting", Pike's "Morals & Dogma of the Ancient & Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry" plainly states on the title page:

"Prepared for The Supreme Council of the Thirty-Third Degree (Mother Council of the World) For The Southern Jurisdiction of the United States"

In short that means that the book was written expressly for members of the Southern Jurisdiction of the Scottish Rite, see:

www.srmason-sj.org...

(The Northern Masonic Jurisdiction is shown in yellow. Everything else is Southern Jurisdiction)

Unless you ARE a member of that jurisdiction, the book WOULD be boring to you. It's not secret by any means (although later editions actually said it was...for some silly reason) it wasn't intended for members of other jurisdictions nor for non-Masons.

Yes. I've read it. Cover to cover. My personal copy has hundreds of marginal notes, underscores, etc. It's fascinating...but then I've received the degrees of the Southern Jurisdiction and studied a lot of other material pertaining to these degrees.




Also, I've heard that Albert Pike was a real cheater, he plagiarizes all through that 900-page book.
Well...861 actual pages in the book, but if you count the index, etc...



Half of it is plagirism. Can you beleive that?


Yep. Read the "Preface" In fact I'll quote part of it for you. Since it was written for a specific audience Pike was quite liberal in quoting others' material without direct reference. In EVERY edition of M&D since the first edition in 1817 he said on page iii-iv:

"In preparing this work, the Grand Commander (Pike) has been about equally Author and Compiler; since he has extracted quite half its contents from the works of the best writers and most philosophic or eloquent thinkers. Perhaps it would have been better and more acceptable if he had extracted more and written less."

Still, perhaps half of it is his own; and, in incorporating here the thoughts and words of others, he has continually changed and added to the language, often intermingling, in the same sentences, his own words with theirs.

It not being intended for the world at large, he has felt at liberty to make, from all accessible sources, a Compendium of the Morals and Dogma of the Rite, to re-mould sentences, change and add to words and phrases, combine them with his own, and use them as if they were his own, to be dealt with at his pleasure and so availed of as to make the whole most valuable for the purposes intended. He claims, therefore, little of the merit of authorship, and has not cared to distinguish his own from that which he has taken from other sources, being quite willing that every portion of the book, in turn, may be regarded as borrowed from some old and better writer.


Also, Albert Pike led savages in the civil war to do "war crimes" that I won't even mention (look it up if you want) Thats all, I just wanted to share this with you.


If you're really interested in Pike (and not just in "baiting") I suggest

"Albert Pike: The Man Beyond the Monument" by Jim Tresner

You'll find that there was a LOT more to Pike than some narrow-minded information sites present.



posted on Jul, 10 2005 @ 10:36 AM
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Originally posted by ghostdog007
I have to agree with you, because it says in the preface that the entire work was esoteric and to be honest with you, I have no knowledge of the arcane, nor do I care about such nonsense.


If you don't "care about such nonsense" why were you reading it? ..and why would you start this silly thread discussing it, except to "bait"?



It was once said that Albert Pike was notoriously known to worship the devil,


It was "said...that [he]..was known to" Hmmm. Doesn't sound very, uhmm..SOUND, now does it? By WHOM was he "known" to? Pike was a trinitarian Christian (an Episcopalian to be exact) I know TONS of Episcopalians (including myself) and NONE of them are "known" to worship the devil. We worship God. So did Pike.



he would where rings on each finger thinking this gave him some sort of powers. Anyway, its all nonsense.


OK. Again, then...why bring it up if it's "nonsense"? I'm not certain that you're actually trying to troll here, but I am sure of one thing. If you ARE, you AREN'T doing a very good job.



I don't believe Albert Pike was affiliated in any way with the KKK, because their main insurgence came long after he was dead.


Finally something that makes sense.



Also, Mr. Pike was responsible for treason during the war.


Yes, he and every other person who fought on the side of the Confederacy. The Union didn't think very highly of that sort of thing. Funny that after the Civil War he ended up practicing law in Washington DC, though, isn't it? Why do you suppose this happened?



Also, he was responsible for some of the most despicable and vile massacres when he led an army of Native Americans.


Are you entirely CERTAIN of this? I think you'd better do some more research. ...or rather SOME research



Albert Pike had ideas to destory the U.S. with Aaron Burr.


Well now THAT'S news. Burr died in 1836 when Pike was 27 years old. How about backing up that claim with fact? (I mean other than the Lyndon LaRouche nonsense you're spouting)



Albert Pike fantacized about a WWIII.


Amazing! And LONG BEFORE World War ONE had even happened (let alone World War TWO) Pike was indeed very progressive, wasn't he?

C'mon ghostdog....you're pulling our legs aren't you?



He was an egotistical Don Quixote in my opinion.


"egotistical" huh? You knew him well enough to make that statement?




posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by ghostdog007
Has anyone actually ever read Albert Pike's "Morals and Dogma" so-called "masterpiece". And I'm not talking about that "flipping-through-pages-randomly-and-pulling-out-a-quote-here-and-there-nonesense", I'm talking about really read it. From cover to cover. Well, I've managed to get through the first 3 chapters or so and that was enough for me. So if you ever want some material that is good for boring late at night and causing you to go to sleep, well, this is the book.


I have nothing to add here really, except that I have read the chapters you refer to, and it is anything but boring. In fact I found it quite fascinating, especially chapter 3. While Seb may be lacking a bit in the tact department here, I fully agree with him. The only peoiple that would find this book boring or a waste of time, probably don't have the noggin for it, plain and simple. No one said it was an easy read. But ghostdog, let me say this: There is ALOT in those first three chapters that is incontravertible Truth, and if you take the time to digest and understand what Pike was saying, you can learn alot about this world we live in and the men who inhabit it, and what makes them tick.

I humbly suggest you grab a dictionary and try it again... Oh wait, that's right, you "have no knowledge of the arcane, nor do you care about such nonsense." My bad. Meh. Some people get it, some people don't.



posted on Jul, 13 2005 @ 09:03 PM
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If Pike were here to defend himself he might share this quote:

What is true to the philosopher, would not be truth, nor have the effect of truth, to the peasant. The religion of many must necessarily be more incorrect than that of the refined and reflected few. The truest religion would in many points, not be comprehended by the ignorant. The doctrines of the Bible are often not clothed in the language of strict truth, but in that which was fittest to convey to a rude and ignorant people, the doctrine.

P 224 M&D Thats one of my favorite Pike quotes



posted on Jul, 14 2005 @ 09:21 AM
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>>>The religion of many must necessarily be more incorrect than that of >>>the refined and reflected few. The truest religion would in many points, >>>>not be comprehended by the ignorant.


Lol...

I wonder if the moderators will permit me make
a comparison with Stalline or even Al-Qeada.
without accusing of derailing ?


Maybe then we should start a new thread really
asking:

Did Pike ever wrote about any totalitarian concept of religion ?


Hmm...


Cedric Phi



posted on Jul, 14 2005 @ 09:50 AM
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And for UK readers:

If Albert Pike was a "rambling fool", then Private Frank Pike was a "stupid boy"!!




Courtesy of Dad's Army

Apologies for the insertion of humour



posted on Jul, 14 2005 @ 10:01 AM
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Originally posted by Centiment

I wonder if the moderators will permit me make
a comparison with Stalline or even Al-Qeada.
without accusing of derailing ?


Maybe then we should start a new thread really
asking:

Did Pike ever wrote about any totalitarian concept of religion ?


Hmm...


Totalitarian concept of religion? What does Stalin have to do with religion? He was power hungry, it had nothing to do with religion. As far as Al Qeada, well, we know that they do what they do in the name of "religion", but we also know that the faithful practicers of said religion are vehemently opposed to such atrocities being perpetrated in the name of Allah.

So, what's your comparison?

All Pike is saying here is that unlearned men may well have trouble understanding the finer points of religion, and that the doctrine relayed to the vulgar masses are often "dumbed down" for lack of a better term, so that the basic principles may be conveyed to them. Is this so hard to understand? Would you try to explain trigonometry to someone with a fifth grade education?

[edit on 7/14/05 by The Axeman]




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