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Need info on Roscrucians and possibly related subjects

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posted on Jul, 9 2005 @ 07:45 PM
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I've just been tossed into the deepend of a subject that I KNOW nill about. I've got a very thin education in the lore surrounding some of the subjects that have come up, but nothing solid.

I'm hearing a lot of stuff about Roscrucians, Moon Children, The Book of Enoch, Nephilim, Enochian Magic, Dr. John Dee, and even Aliester Crowley, among other things.

In the broad strokes, it has something to do with a breeding project by the Roscrucians to create a race of trans-humans. I don't know if I believe a word of what I'm being told- my skeptic hairs are standing straight on end.

I'd be very appreciative of whatever you all can tell me from either side (skeptic or believer), especially to explain the history of the Roscrucians and what the connection to all of this other stuff might be.

If anything compelling comes out of this, I'm thinking about a research project, but first I just need to know what in the heck it is I'm researching here. It looks like I'd be reading for months if I wanted to go right to the source on all of this stuff.




posted on Jul, 9 2005 @ 07:54 PM
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Vagabond,

A search of Advanced Book Exchange (or any of the other used book sellers will likely turn up a copy of the following)


"The Rosy Cross Unveiled" by Christopher McIntosh (ellingsborough: Aquarian Press, 1980.

In my opinion, it's one of the best books on the subject.

Regards



posted on Jul, 9 2005 @ 08:33 PM
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Here's some good online information:

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Jul, 10 2005 @ 12:48 AM
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I spent a few hours in Strong's Concordance and in Wikipedia tonight to connect the dots.

If I understand correctly, what I am basically looking at which prompted my question is a theory which says that Nephilim gave man all of his technology (From Book of Enoch)

That because Gnostics take the side of the fallen angels (who they see as being rebels against a tyranical minor god named Yaldabaoth, who owe alliegience to a higher, unknowable God who those with gnosis will return to upon Christ's return), the Gnostics and subsequently the secret societies they formed to hide themselves from the church became the sole keepers of the knowledge imparted to us by the fallen ones.

And that members of secret societies such as Da Vinci, John Dee, Francis Bacon, America's founding fathers, etc have been using these secrets to drive the course of human history.

Last but not least, it is being suggested that the Roscrucians are trying to create a trans-human race called moon children, possibly descended from Nephilim.

I have a few problems with the theory that seems to be being presented to me (which I had to put a lot of research into just to make heads or tails of), but I'm interested in what you all might think about it, for or against.

My major problem with it is that I thought Gnostics saw the body and the world as evil, and that as such they would not try to advance it.
A second problem is that Gnostics don't take the OT literally, so all the fallen angels stuff wouldn't be likely to be accepted by them.
Last but not least, the connection between Roscrucians and Masons seems to be taken forgranted in all of this without proof, which makes much of the cause for theorizing potentially illegitimate.



posted on Jul, 10 2005 @ 01:36 AM
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The Rosicrucians look spooky with their dresses,
and, well, my uncle being both in science and being
Rosi until his death, your allegations are kinda scary,
but from what I get in the stuff that I have here, they believe in human
power to heal and do experiences as such.

If they did anything close to what you describe, it
was probably more an allegory meant to find
ways to prolongate their lives. I dunno.

It's definitely bizarre but it seems harmless.


Cheers,

Cedric



posted on Jul, 10 2005 @ 06:35 AM
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Originally posted by The Vagabond
Last but not least, the connection between Roscrucians and Masons seems to be taken forgranted in all of this without proof, which makes much of the cause for theorizing potentially illegitimate.


Very true. And to further the confusion, there's are several branches of Masonry that have the title, Rosicrucian or Rose Croix/Rosy Cross in them. One is the Masonic Rosicrucians.

We do not confer "Masonic Degrees" per se, but limit our membership to Masons. It's called Masonic Societas Rosicruciana in Civitatibus Foederatis

www.yorkrite.com...

It's not a "mystic" organization like some of the so-called "Rosicrucian" groups.

Another reference to be found is of course, the 18th Degree of the Scottish Rite the Degree of Rose Croix

and finally the second degree of the Royal Order of Scotland (a highly coveted invitational Masonic Organization) is called the Rosy Cross and members are called Rosicrucian Knights.



posted on Jul, 10 2005 @ 07:05 AM
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Aren't they some kind of cult that takes control of your whole life and finances? I read that the order would have died out had it not been for a few good Masons.



posted on Jul, 10 2005 @ 07:08 AM
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Quote: "My major problem with it is that I thought Gnostics saw the Body and the World as Evil."

No they saw MATTER & Materialism as a Root Cause & Source of Evil, Ignorance & Suffering. Both Buddhists & Gnostics Believed that it is our DESIRE for & Attachment to these things that Traps us in Illusion - in this World of Suffering & Re-Incarnation (Samsara). This leads us to Perform Negative Actions - which then leads to Consequences/Retribution. This Chain of Causes & Effects is called Karma!

The Opposite of Material is the Spirit & the Mind & with-in these is the key to our Freedom. To Know Thyself - to know the Buddha Nature & the Christ Nature & the GOD WITHIN! The Body is Material - Impermanent. The Mind & the Spirit however is Infinite! The Material Sphere of Malkuth is only the BASE SHELL of the World, Reality & Realms - the fact that you think that it is the "Only World" is in-fact the Illusion!


Both the Material & Spiritual Aspects of the Universe must be kept in Balance! The Gnostics Acknowledged that the Demi-Urge is indeed a God - the Ruler of the Material Plane - but that there was in-fact also a Higher God (Nuos - Mind) & that Christ (Chistos) came down to our World to show us the Path (Logos - the Word of God)/Give us Access to this Higher GOD. GOD is LOVE! A Buddha is Perfect Master of the Balance of Wisdom & Compassion!

[edit on 10-7-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]



posted on Jul, 10 2005 @ 07:13 AM
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Originally posted by TgSoe
Aren't they some kind of cult that takes control of your whole life and finances? I read that the order would have died out had it not been for a few good Masons.


To give you a short but accurate answer.

No. They're not.



posted on Jul, 10 2005 @ 08:28 AM
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Originally posted by senrak

Originally posted by TgSoe
Aren't they some kind of cult that takes control of your whole life and finances? I read that the order would have died out had it not been for a few good Masons.


To give you a short but accurate answer.

No. They're not.





I didn't mean to get you all riled up this rainy sunday morning Senrak. Are you a Roscicrusian? I remember you saying what all your achievments are a while back but I can't remember them all now.



posted on Jul, 10 2005 @ 09:00 AM
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Originally posted by TgSoe
I didn't mean to get you all riled up this rainy sunday morning Senrak. Are you a Roscicrusian? I remember you saying what all your achievments are a while back but I can't remember them all now.


Aw, you didn't rile me.
I wish WE had some rain, though...sure could use it.

Yes, I'm Rosicrucian (the Masonic brand) Societas Rosicruciana In Civitatibus Foederatis--VII degree. Also have TONS of info on various other Rosicrucian groups.



posted on Jul, 10 2005 @ 11:40 AM
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At the death of my uncle (rosicrucians), some special advocate
whom no one in the family had heard about was put in charge,
to dispense the heritage.


He came up with company papers given by my uncle company
that were dismantling and opposite to a family heritage testament, and
was angry that as family members we had already
got into to the house and kinda "installed ourselves"
within it at the times of obsequium.


We tried to fight the advocate in court, can you believe this ?


We were certain that he was a rosicrucian.



It was ruled out that the company had every
right to keep everything belonging to it at the condition
that they can buy it from us.


Something was fishy with that lawyer.


Cedric



posted on Jul, 10 2005 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by Centiment
[much really bizarre rambling snipped]
Something was fishy with that lawyer.


Centiment/Cedric,

I do not wish to be rude, but whatever are you babbling about?

Of that ENTIRE post there was only ONE coherent statement...and I have quoted it above.

What do you mean "to dispense the heritage". Do you perchance mean to "distribute the inheritance?"



He came up with company papers given by my uncle company


What does your Uncle's company have to do with the Rosicrucians?



that were dismantling and opposite to a family heritage testament,


What indeed is a "family heritage testament" ?



was angry that as family members we had already got into to the house and kinda "installed ourselves" within it at the times of obsequium.


..installed yourselves within the house at the "times of obsequium"... What does that MEAN? I generally comprehend English fairly well and I haven't the foggiest idea....



We tried to fight the advocate in court, can you believe this ?


I suppose I can...but since I really don't understand anything you've said (with the aforementioned exception of the "fishy lawyer")



We were certain that he was a rosicrucian.


How were you "certain" Do you know what a Rosicrucian LOOKS LIKE?



It was ruled out that the company had every
right to keep everything belonging to it at the condition
that they can buy it from us.


Uhmmm...they got to "keep everything" but they had to "buy it" ? I'm sorry. That's profoundly absurd.

Again, I do not wish to be rude or insulting...I'm merely trying to understand what you're talking about. Is English your first language?

[edit on 10-7-2005 by senrak]



posted on Jul, 10 2005 @ 05:03 PM
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>>>>Do you perchance mean to "distribute the inheritance?"


I am non-english, but that is what I meant.


>>>>What does your Uncle's company have to do with the Rosicrucians?


Money, it seems.


>>>>"family heritage testament"


Well, I meant a standard testament, and company papers
were much abusive on what they think they owned (as the court
ruled out).



>>>>What does that MEAN?


My uncle doesn't live near so we had to stay at his place as
soon he died to arrange everything, because it was closer
to where he wished be buried.

I was very close to my uncle, by the way.


>>>>How were you "certain" Do you know what a Rosicrucian LOOKS >>>>LIKE?


Personal papers. I can't reveal everything.
There is another rosicrusian at the company,
and at some point we were wondering if the papers
were false because they contradicted the testament
vehemently. Something fishy is the best I can tell.



>>>>"keep everything" but they had to "buy it"


They were trying to get the company inherited.

The judge ruled that it belonged to us, but that we were
forced to sell it. At an arranged price by judge and lawyer.

To be exactly sure we don't even know what
my uncle exactly wanted anymore.

With another judge, the company,
and that other rosicrucian, would have got everything.


But I am not faulting this to any rosicrucian conspiracy.

I am just saying that it is very probable that
my uncle was a strong believer
and promissed money to rosicricians.
I have no idea how they work, but, I was very
close to that guy and we were all shocked
when we discovered his "secret room".

But he thought I was the person esoteric enough in
the family to get these.


Thanks,

Cedric



posted on Jul, 10 2005 @ 06:48 PM
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Vagabond,

As fascinating as this thread has become (aren't they all, though?)

Here are some other pretty good references for Rosicrucian material. The ones with an (*) are books that I have read and/or have in my library.

Regards
Senrak

* R. Swinburne Clymer, The Rosy Cross, Its Teachings (Quakertown, PA: Beverly Hall Corporation, 1965).

George Winslow Plummer, Principles and Practice for Rosicrucians (New York: Society of Rosicrucians, 1947).

* H. Spencer Lewis, Rosicrucian Questions and Answers with Complete Answers (San Jose, CA: Supreme Grand Lodge of AMORC, 1969).

* Max Heindel, The Rosicrucian Cosmo-Conception (Oceanside, CA: Rosicrucian Fellowship, 1909).

S.R. Parchment, Astrology, Mundane and Spiritual (San Francisco: Rosicrucian anthroposophic League, 1937).

The Way of the Rosycross in Our Times (Haarlem: Rozekruis-Pers, 1978).
R.A. Straughn, The Realization of Neter Nu (Brooklyn, NY: Maat Publishing co., 1975).

* Harold V.B. Voorhis, Masonic Rosicrucian Societies (New York: Press of Henry Emerson, 1958).

* Christopher McIntosh, The Rosy Cross Unveiled (Wellingsborough: Aquarian Press, 1980).

Paul M. Allen, ed., A Christian Rosenkreutz Anthology (Blauvelt, NY: Rudlof Steiner Publications, 1968).

Frances A. Yates, The Rosicrucian Enlightenment (London: Routledge and Kegan Paul, 1972).

*A.E. Waite, The Brotherhood of the Rosy Cross (London: Rider, 1924).



posted on Jul, 10 2005 @ 07:44 PM
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Thanks for all your help senrak.

Centiment- I'm not familiar with your case or the laws of your nation (I'm not sure where you are from) but in the back of my mind, I suspect that your uncles company may have been a sole proprietorship. A sole proprietorship (at least in the US) does not have its assetts distinguished from those of the owner in any way. I wonder if perhaps the company had been inherited by someone else, while the family inherited the rest of his estate, and there may have been outstanding loans the inherited property.
If this was the case, one option before the judge (especially if you couldn't afford to pay the balance of the loan) would be to have the company take possession of the estate, and pay you the equity- that is the portion of the estate's value which had already been paid off and was no longer a company assett.

I'm no lawyer, I'm just trying to figure out how what you described might have happened, and this scenario makes more sense to me than some shadowy religious organization stepping forward with documents that nobody in the family was aware of, especially if the case was presented as a company matter and not as a matter between the a Roscrucian organization and your uncle's estate.



posted on Jul, 10 2005 @ 08:19 PM
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You make sense, but my uncle's partner
is also rosicru and it is obvious they both
invested in the "sect".

I call it sect because if you had all the evidences
I got here, it is obvious these people experience
with healing powers in ways that are far too new agey
to be just a friendshp thing.


My uncle's partner was his lifelong friend, and I
also knew him much. They lived together for a while.

Since then he became unsympathetic to the family.
Actually that all started with him hiding and sending
that other lawyer. Judging from personal
letters that I got, the guy is entirely endoctrinated
in new age stuff, and I think that is how my uncle
got entangled. I mean..I love tarots...I love astrology,
but they are limits to new age.

Why wear costumes ?

Lol....It looks like in that Kubrick film.

But though I wouldn't be surprise that my uncle
participated in group sex, I totally
doubt the rosis are anything spooky or evil.

They are esoteric monks who hide because
they know they got too much into new age,
that is how I see it.

Judging from letters, they were only concerned
with helping each other into their "esoteric paths",
planning to open a small spa for spiritual healing.
(I am lying...that spa exists, but I don't want to tell you
which).


Cheers,

Cedric



posted on Jul, 10 2005 @ 08:23 PM
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Ced, if that last post was a pair of trousers, I would have thought that you soiled yourself.

Do you have ANYTHING to contribute to this site.



posted on Jul, 10 2005 @ 08:28 PM
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You are a vile man with a bad heart.


Do what you have to do and ban me, intrepid.


Ced



posted on Jul, 10 2005 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by Centiment


You are a vile man with a bad heart.


Do what you have to do and ban me, intrepid.


Ced


My heart's fine. Vile is in the eye of the beholder.

Ban you? Not my style BUT I WILL deny ignorance. I see a lot of denying in the near future.

Ball's in your court. You want to play nice or just disrupt the site?



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