but for a lot of employers it's standard practice to issue a drug test - prior to hiring. Now, if drugs are legalized will there be pressure on employers to stop testing - or not be able to not hire someone who fails a drug test?

Let's suppose pot is legalized: Do employers HAVE to hire pot users??

(just throwing out some 'real' questions that are bound to come up when and if just marijuana is legalized)

Originally posted by Bob88
Out of curiosity to those that believe drugs (any) should be legalized: what about employers who drug test?

This pisses me off more than drugs being illegal. It's a piss poor world when you're judged by your urine. Not only is it humiliating, but it's the ultimate invasion of your privacy. What's next? Genetic discrimination?

Let's suppose pot is legalized: Do employers HAVE to hire pot users??

I would say yes. Just as they're not concerned about hiring alcoholics, they shouldn't worry about hiring pot smokers, unless there's reason to believe they're getting stoned at work. Only then should they be able to take any action against them. They can't fire people for getting drunk on their own time, but they can fire people for smoking pot on their own time. It's just wrong. What I do on my own time is none of my employer's business, even if it is illegal. Unless my employer happens to be a cop, it's not their responsibility to enforce the law with discrimination tactics.


[Edited on 28-8-2003 by Satyr]

Originally posted by Satyr
This pisses me off more than drugs being illegal. It's a piss poor world when you're judged by your urine. Not only is it humiliating, but it's the ultimate invasion of your privacy. What's next? Genetic discrimination?
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It's a great feeling when you have NOTHING to hide.
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Let's suppose pot is legalized: Do employers HAVE to hire pot users??

I would say yes. Just as they're not concerned about hiring alcoholics, they shouldn't worry about hiring pot smokers, unless there's reason to believe they're getting stoned at work. Only then should they be able to take any action against them. They can't fire people for getting drunk on their own time, but they can fire people for smoking pot on their own time. It's just wrong. What I do on my own time is none of my employer's business, even if it is illegal. Unless my employer happens to be a cop, it's not their responsibility to enforce the law with discrimination tactics.
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Employers only do this to protect their assets and their reputation. Why should they risk their butts because you want to use? Alcohol is already part of the drug test. People who use are irresponsable and eventually, once you get comfortable on the job, you will use when you are there. Don't even try and tell me you never took a couple of hits on your lunch or break. BEEN THERE DONE THAT



[Edited on 8/28/2003 by Venus]

Originally posted by Venus
Employers only do this to protect their assets and their reputation. Why should they risk their butts because you want to use? Alcohol is already part of the drug test. People who use are irresponsable and eventually, once you get comfortable on the job, you will use when you are there. Don't even try and tell me you never took a couple of hits on your lunch or break. BEEN THERE DONE THAT

Bullsh*t!!! I am a pot smoker, and I never get stoned at work. People who have jobs that require using their brains don't, from my experience. And no, they don't test for alcohol in most cases because 1) It's not illegal and 2) As long as you don't have a high alcohol content at the time of the test, there's no way to detect it anyway.
In other words, although some tests can reveal alcohol content, they're not looking for it. A random piss test will not show any alcohol results.

If you've "been there done that", then you're one of the irresponsible ones. Irresponsibility does not stem from drug use. It's a character trait, whether you use drugs or not. I get so sick and tired of the stereotypical BS, lumping me into the irresponsible POS category, just because I like to smoke a joint at night, or on weekends.

Oh yeah, BTW, I have been very high at work before, but those were doctor prescribed drugs....and we all know those are ok.

[Edited on 28-8-2003 by Satyr]

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- You may smoke some grass or eat a shroom -
-- no Designer Drugs, they prepare your doom --
-- but still you should keep your head with it --
------- 'cause otherwise, you will regret it! -------
-- You'll become a slave, you'll become a fool --
--- and just because you've abused the tool ---
***********************************A.A.



I should become a poet

Cigarettes suck...taste like crap...don't even give you a high...but...with legal added chemicals worse than crack...you're hooked...why?....money. Alcohol rots your insides and your brain pickles...causes domestic violence...car wrecks...and etc etc...but...it's legal...taxed...and so forth...why?...money! Americans are by nature lazy...they like their luxuries...including drugs and alcohol...legal or illegal...and they cost money...the more money you make...the more you can get away with.

Doctors are now prescribing drugs that were once used in psychiatric wards...Xanax...Prozac...etc....and drugs which are synthetic forms of illegal drugs like Codeine and Vicodin which are forms of heroin. Go to your doctor and tell him you have been having panic attacks...VIOLA!!...you gonna get high!! On the bottles reads "May cause drowsiness"...or pretty much "Don't make any friggin' plans"....you pop a couple pills...hop into your nice big comfy SUV...and now have become a weapon. You don't ever hear of potheads causing a riot or beating their wifes...they are too damn relaxed or too busy eating..hehe. The FDA would love to have drugs legalized...more money for them...they already OK'd millions of dugs that could do a person harm...but no one will really know until 10-20 years down the road when someone dies from the legal drug.

Everyone has their "drug of choice"...whether it be drinking...smoking...toking...even shopping...that person has a right to choose what their obsession...ambission...whatever it may be...is...LET IT BE! For example...I drank beer for a couple years on a regular basis...started having siezures...not good...so I quit...wasn't meant for me. Doctor prescribes anti-anxiety drugs...made me want to sleep all the time...not good...too damn busy. Anti-depressants surely weren't made for me....blah..blah..blah...blah....sometimes would tell the same story over and over...not a fun person to be around...hehe. Pot...hrmm....relaxing...fun...hungry...but the short term memory has gone to crap..no biggie...just become obsessive compulsive so not to forget anything. Crack...oooo...eeee...fun...for about an hour or so...no way...you might as well roll up a ball of Saran-Wrap and smoke it. Seen horrible things happen to people on heroin...just plain horrible...don't know why anyone would want to that to themselves. Cause and effect...they should have a rating system for any drug...and if the rating goes too high...pun..hehe...making death the worst....then make it illegal.

The commercial that cracks me up the most is the teenagers at the party...one boy and one girl sitting on the couch smoking pot...jamming the music...neighbor knocking on the wall. Then ooooh baby....somehow pot became a rape drug...wtf?....and get this...the police start to knock on the front door...and the two of them don't even care?...no...don't think so...paranoia would kick into full force by then. TV should be considered a drug...my brain can only handle so much of the BS on there anyways.

Finally...legal or illegal...people with money who want drugs...get it...and it's their right...it's the consequence of their actions thereof of whether or not it has become a crime. The laws are all backa$$wards when it comes to drugs. Oh well...that's my opinion.

The only problem with legalizing drugs is that it supplies large amounts of money to the kind of people who should not have power. If all drugs were legalized drug lords would rule about half the world in a month. I know many people think that everything would just be fine and dandy and people could grow their own weed but when it came down to other drugs the market is cornered and the people running that market do not enjoy competition. Many think that these drug lords and manufacturers would wither and die but that is simply not the case.

You don't seem to get it. What's the difference between a drug lord and anyone who has power and wealth? Bankers, fortune 500 companies, etc. Besides, who the hell is going to waste time getting drugs from dangerous drug lords, if they can grow and manufacture drugs themselves? Or get it from a company who is on the up and up, and doesn't make it their practice to kill people? If drugs were regulated, and sold cheaper, drug lords would have no place in the US. As a matter of fact, what would be the point in being in that business, if all drugs were readily available? You don't see very many moonshiners anymore, do you? Sorry, but your logic only seems to support what you want to believe. The reality would be much different. People can't just start their own pharmaceutical company, can they? How would this be any different?

Let's suppose pot is legalized: Do employers HAVE to hire pot users??

Absolutely not, Bob. The employer has the right to hire whoever he wants, and personal lifestyle choice is not to be, nor ever should, be protected by civil liberties laws. If you dont want druggies in your work place, dont hire them.

Legalizing drugs:

1. Does not mean that druggies will suddenly be free from employment discrimination. Its a choice they make.
2. Does not mean family members cannot yell at, scream, or disown thier relatives for using drugs. The freedom to disapprove of drugs still exists
3. Does not mean that druggies will be immune to prosecution. if they commit violent crimes, they should recieve punishment
4. Does not mean kids will be allowed to use them. legal drinking age, legal smoking age, legal snorting age.
5.Does not mean rehab will disappear. rehab will still exist. Ciggarettes are legal, and look at the booming rehab industry around them

legalizing drugs means:

1. We will no longer throw people in jail or fine them simply for getting high. We need the prison space for nastioer people.
2. Gives the ultimate freedom to people in choosing thier own course of life, including the right to destroy that life. The govornment has absolutely no right to tell people that they cant destroy thier lives and minds
3. That the hypocrisy ends. Look at all the legal drugs that pharmceutical companies manufacture and pump out. Half the cures for diseases cure nothing, but destroy the body and mind further. cancer drugs and anti inflamitory drugs, phycological medications are very deadly and toxic. And worse yet, they dont make people feel very happy. Why is Heroin worse than chemotherapy, which may not cure the cancer, and destroy the body more? Why is cocain worse than prednisone, which causes heart, liver, bone, and brain damage, massive weight gain, and only does minimal anti infamilitory cure?

Good points Skadi! Yeah, I guess employers should always have the right to hire who they want. I mean, they can quietly discriminate against you if they don't like your hair, tattoo, your handshake wasn't firm enough, or 3 million other petty things that may or may not have anything to do with your job performance. That's their prerogative. When I said they should have to hire pot heads, I really meant they shouldn't deny them jobs based on a drug test alone. I think drug testing should be illegal. It is one of the biggest invasions of our privacy. To me, it's the same as if they wouldn't hire me because I don't keep my kitchen clean. Oooooohh...that could mean I'm not responsible, or I have bad organizational skills, right? We all know that an employer shouldn't have the right to pry into your private life. And frankly, who wants them there?
But anyway, I like the way you broke it down. It shows the simplicity of how it would really work, and why it should be so. Nice post!

"Drunks cause far many more problems. yet booze is legal."

Exactly. Legalisation = bad idea.

In my opinion its foolish at best to assume that legalisation of drugs can be of real benefit. I don't think the drugs are bad, I think people are the problem. Immediate gratification is condoned in our society and this is going to cause problems with just about any pleasurable thing we can experience. Why do some people want to give more temptation to young people? What message does that send?

As a recovering alcoholic and addict myself, I can relate to the opinions like "oh well, its a plant anyway" but remember that the plant has a specific use, which was long ago lost on most of us so it becomes just another poisonous plant to pleasure-seeking people who feel the need to gratify themselves. I know because I was one of them.

Oh, I see. That explains your POV, then. All born again sobriety freaks are the same. They all feel that just because they had problems, everyone must be as weak as they are. Sorry if that offends you, but it's the truth. Don't try to drag me into your stupid little AA meetings, capice? I've already been to them. I have absolutely no sympathy or respect for those people, and I sure as hell don't fit in with them. You can hate or feel sorry for yourself, but I don't want, nor do I need your pity. Nothing pisses me off more, frankly. You can go hang out with your sober friends, and go to your sober gatherings. But when you try to influence my decisions about my life, I take it personally.

[Edited on 1-9-2003 by Satyr]

Don't worry Satyr, I certainly won't be trying to drag you anywhere.

If you can't keep your emotions and preferences out of a debate, I suggest you stay away from it.

Originally posted by Sian
Don't worry Satyr, I certainly won't be trying to drag you anywhere.

If you can't keep your emotions and preferences out of a debate, I suggest you stay away from it.

I have no problem keeping my emotions in check. You, and most people who have lost enough control in the past, obviously do. It's when someone like you decides that someone like me is bad, just because you had a problem in the past, I get a bit angry. I'm not the one trying to force you to live your life as I do. You are, through your support of regulating personal freedoms. Leave me and everyone who agrees with me the hell alone. Quit sicking your congressmen and policemen on me. Thank you.
If you don't like drugs, or people who use them, don't hang around them. It's as simple as that. We don't need laws to help keep you or your friends off drugs. The law didn't keep you from having a drug/alcohol problem, did it?

[Edited on 2-9-2003 by Satyr]

Originally posted by Satyr

Bullsh*t!!! I am a pot smoker, and I never get stoned at work. People who have jobs that require using their brains don't, from my experience. And no, they don't test for alcohol in most cases because 1) It's not illegal and 2) As long as you don't have a high alcohol content at the time of the test, there's no way to detect it anyway.
In other words, although some tests can reveal alcohol content, they're not looking for it. A random piss test will not show any alcohol results.

If you've "been there done that", then you're one of the irresponsible ones. Irresponsibility does not stem from drug use. It's a character trait, whether you use drugs or not. I get so sick and tired of the stereotypical BS, lumping me into the irresponsible POS category, just because I like to smoke a joint at night, or on weekends.

Oh yeah, BTW, I have been very high at work before, but those were doctor prescribed drugs....and we all know those are ok.


Drug testing has become an important safety issue in the workplace for Human Resources and Safety professionals. Over 98% of all the Fortune 500 companies do drug testing.

The purpose is to lessen the impact from drug abuse in the workplace, including tardiness, absenteeism, turnover, attitude problems, theft, deceased productivity, crime and violence.

*****NO ATTITUDE PROBLEMS HERE******

The US Department of Labor estimates that drug use in the workplace costs employers $75 to $100 billion dollars annually in lost time, accidents, health care and workers compensation costs. Sixty-five percent of all accidents on the job are related to drug or alcohol, and substance abusers utilize 16 times as many health care benefits and are six times more likely to file workers compensation claims then non-abusers.

Originally posted by Satyr
Oh, I see. That explains your POV, then. All born again sobriety freaks are the same. They all feel that just because they had problems, everyone must be as weak as they are. Sorry if that offends you, but it's the truth. Don't try to drag me into your stupid little AA meetings, capice? I've already been to them. I have absolutely no sympathy or respect for those people, and I sure as hell don't fit in with them. You can hate or feel sorry for yourself, but I don't want, nor do I need your pity. Nothing pisses me off more, frankly. You can go hang out with your sober friends, and go to your sober gatherings. But when you try to influence my decisions about my life, I take it personally.
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YOU'VE BEEN TO AN AA MEETING? What brought you there? Did "somebody" get busted and ordered to attend meetings

[Edited on 9/10/2003 by Venus]

Yep. I was court ordered to attend what turned out to be the equivalent to redneck, drunken loser, hand holding prayer sessions.

As for accidents in the workplace, you can find statistics to support just about anything you want. Everyone knows that. The US Department of Labor will estimate anything to support their cause. The entire basis for drug enforcement was a farce to begin with. They consistently and successfully fed propaganda to the citizens, and they bought it. Have you ever seen the movie "Grass"? Do you know how many times the "official truth" about any drug has changed? They're still spouting untrue BS about the effects of drugs.

You think that just because I believe my body is mine to do with what I will, that I have an attitude problem??? You're not only insane, you're brainwashed.
By the way, anger is a normal human emotion. If it's brought on by something you're passionate about, it's not an attitude problem. It's perfectly normal. However, I'm not mad. I'm frustrated from seeing too many people that feel the need to inflict their belief system on others....even if it doesn't really concern them directly. You worry about yourself and your own, and I'll do the same, ok?

I suppose you believe that our gov't does 99.9% of what they do "for your own good", eh?

BTW, drugs or alcohol have never caused any problems in my life. Merely having them in my possession has, however.

[Edited on 2-9-2003 by Satyr]

You need to wake the F*%& up !! If you are so strong and without defects then why do you smoke weed? If you are so unhappy with the laws in this country, why are you still here? It is my belief that you are so defensive about this issue because you got caught. Please...if you will....tell me the story. How much did you get caught with and what was the "OH SO BAD PUNISHMENT" you received. I see you are free to post on the internet...I see you are allowed to speak your mind....I see you are still using and doing whatever it is you think is right to your own body. Other then protecting society (which is me and mine) what others ways is the government keeping you from smoking weed?

Originally posted by Satyr
Yep. I was court ordered to attend what turned out to be the equivalent to redneck, drunken loser, hand holding prayer sessions.

You say that like it's a bad thing