Drugs?

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posted on Sep, 2 2003 @ 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by Venus
You need to wake the F*%& up !! If you are so strong and without defects then why do you smoke weed? If you are so unhappy with the laws in this country, why are you still here? It is my belief that you are so defensive about this issue because you got caught. Please...if you will....tell me the story. How much did you get caught with and what was the "OH SO BAD PUNISHMENT" you received. I see you are free to post on the internet...I see you are allowed to speak your mind....I see you are still using and doing whatever it is you think is right to your own body. Other then protecting society (which is me and mine) what others ways is the government keeping you from smoking weed?


I like smoking pot. It relaxes me. I've always been rather high strung by nature. I was also born with Tourette's Syndrome, and I believe certain illegal drugs have played an enormous part in all but alleviating what was previously a much worse problem.
The gov't is not keeping me, or anyone else, from smoking weed. They just want to destroy your life if they do happen to catch you. And 99% of the time, it's because of some other incident when they do. I don't want to go into any major detail about my personal life, but I'll give you a for instance. (Well, I wasn't planning on going into detail, anyway)

When I was busted, about 8 years ago now, it was because I was driving my car on an icy road in the south. Well, I'd lived in the north, where driving on the ice was normal every day activity....just part of life.
There was a huge downgrade, which then immediately turned into an upgrade. Any idiot knows that if you don't get enough speed to make it up an icy hill, you'll slide back down to the bottom. This is a real problem if you just came down a hill of the same size. See?
At this particular time, I happened to run upon a very slow moving vehicle. It was a brand new white Bronco, similar to the kind O.J. made his famous dash in.
I knew there was no way in hell my little Maxima was going to make it up that hill unless I got up a little speed, and this guy was going to cause me to get stuck at the bottom of this ravine! So, I passed him.
As I passed him in a legal passing zone (not exceeding the speed limit, mind you), I noticed the city police stickers on the side of this vehicle.
To make a long story short, they pulled me over, I had an open beer. (It was my first one. I wasn't drunk or anything.) So, they asked me if they could search my car. I said "No", and they decided that I was under arrest, even though I'd managed to stand on one foot and touch my nose on glare ice without so much as slipping. They found a container of mercury in my glove compartment, which was for a set of vacuum gauges I used for syncing motorcycle carbs. They then accused me of making bombs!
It wasn't long after they trashed my car, that they found about half a gram of weed in my console. So, off to jail I went. I blew a .07 on the alcohol test, and the state limit was .08, so I would've been ok there, if it wasn't for the weed they'd found. It seems, if you're caught with any kind of drugs, they won't drop a DUI, even if you blew under the limit.
Anyway, years later, and after an appeal, they charged me with both possession and DUI, and proceeded to take every cent I could possibly save for the next few years. (Not to mention how much money I'd spent on a lawyer after they determined that I made too much money to have a public defender. You really have to be unemployed to receive free legal representation, so, if you don't have tons of money, you're pretty much screwed.) As if all this wasn't bad enough, they made me pay to go to DUI classes and AA meetings, which I was expected to get to, even though they took my license.

7 years after, I went to a concert with some friends. I hadn't even smoked pot in quite some time. The smell was everywhere. People were passing joints like it was no big deal. Well, someone passed me one. Immediately after I took a toke, two undercover cops walked up and told me I was under arrest. I found out later that the man who handed me the roach was a cop. (Entrapment has no meaning anymore - they call them "stings") Since I'd had some trouble in the past, this was now a felony. (BTW, it turned out to be .09 grams) Although I got the charges dropped by jumping through multiple hoops and once again spending my entire life savings (and then some), they again made damn sure my life was ruined for at least the next 5 years. Keep in mind, I've never committed any violent crimes, larceny, or anything else that could even be considered to harm or violate anyone else in the least.

Why don't I leave the country? I have no fu*king money!!!



Originally posted by Venus
You say that like it's a bad thing

Yes. That's a sickening thing, when you're agnostic. Being court ordered to take part in religious meetings? It's just one more example of idiots trying to force their beliefs on me.
Being how I look down upon people who are so desperate they're willing to put all of their blind faith into anything, I didn't fit in very well at all. I felt like I was in a room full of fake people....grasping onto whatever shred of hope they could find. People tend to confuse hope with faith, IMO. It's a common mistake.

From my perspective, people like you are the entire problem. You and your kind are responsible for laws that attempt to inflict your narrow thinking on me and millions of others like me. It's a desperate attempt to control the uncontrollable. We'd all be so much happier if you and yours could just learn what me and mine have always known. Live and let live.

[Edited on 2-9-2003 by Satyr]




posted on Sep, 2 2003 @ 04:45 PM
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Originally posted by Satyr
Yes. That's a sickening thing, when you're agnostic. Being court ordered to take part in religious meetings? It's just one more example of idiots trying to force their beliefs on me.


Had you been paying attention....you would have figured out that there is nothing religious about AA or NA.
BTW - You blew it! If I didn't know all this about you, I would have loaned you the money to get out of this country. But you'll just spend it on weed so nevermind...



posted on Sep, 2 2003 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by Satyr
[From my perspective, people like you are the entire problem. You and your kind are responsible for laws that attempt to inflict your narrow thinking on me and millions of others like me. It's a desperate attempt to control the uncontrollable. We'd all be so much happier if you and yours could just learn what me and mine have always known. Live and let live.

As you try to fall asleep tonight....remember this....I WILL BE PRAYING FOR YOU



posted on Sep, 2 2003 @ 04:59 PM
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Originally posted by Venus

Originally posted by Satyr
Yes. That's a sickening thing, when you're agnostic. Being court ordered to take part in religious meetings? It's just one more example of idiots trying to force their beliefs on me.


Had you been paying attention....you would have figured out that there is nothing religious about AA or NA.
BTW - You blew it! If I didn't know all this about you, I would have loaned you the money to get out of this country. But you'll just spend it on weed so nevermind...

Unfortunately, it takes alot more than a plane ticket to move out of the country. And yes, I realize there's alot more to AA, but the sickening smell of desperation fills the room, and if you don't share the same problems as those in the group, the program is quite ineffective. It's like sending someone to a class on bicycle riding safety to learn physics.



As you try to fall asleep tonight....remember this....I WILL BE PRAYING FOR YOU

This will now conclude any further attempts to communicate with you. You're a lost cause. I hope you and god will be very happy together.

If anything, I should feel sorry for you. However, I don't.

[Edited on 2-9-2003 by Satyr]



posted on Sep, 2 2003 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by Satyr
This will now conclude any further attempts to communicate with you. You're a lost cause. I hope you and god will be very happy together.

If anything, I should feel sorry for you. However, I don't.

OH MY GOD......I WAS THINKING THAT EXACT SAME THING ABOUT YOU.....
He does work in mysterious ways...doesn't he?



posted on Sep, 3 2003 @ 12:36 AM
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Thanks for sharing, Satyr.


Seriously, I've re-read my first message on this thread and realised that my unfortunate choice of words may have resulted in a sweeping generalisation and I regret this because that was not my intention. How AA got bought into this, I have no idea but that's beside the point. Those were my personal views and ones that came out wrong, at that. I do not think that all people who take drugs have a problem with it.

Just wanted to clear that up.



posted on Sep, 3 2003 @ 12:41 AM
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Wow...where to start?
Yeah to legalization (the dispair casued by drugs I heard earlier sound like a healthy argument for natural selection) seem that if they were legalized, the people that dealt with it the worst woudl self destruct adn (hopefully) not prcreate, causeing a world that was less dependent on drugs. Second point, I like recreational drugs (especially booze, and if that legal, at least herb should be too...it causes far fewer problems)

Second....AA and NA etc...12 step programs are a religion. The belief system is focused on a higher power (or an inner power...same thing in this context). It is focused on groups being focused on self determination, similar to Christians as a group feeling that they each individually can determine their fate, but need to group to accomplish it. AA is a system that works (but its for quitters! lol) Seriously, the reason it works is becasue it is a daily, life encompassing experience, that ties you to others while convincing you that it is up to you alone day by day internally. A very religious experience (when it works) and very bogus (when it doesn't)



posted on Sep, 3 2003 @ 01:04 AM
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Well, AA was brought up by Venus, who has had serious demons to battle, from the sounds of it.

But yes, AA is only for religiously minded individuals, IMO. People who don't buy into the whole greater power philosophy will feel very out of place at an AA meeting. I even tried to explain to them that I was agnostic, and don't believe in a creator. They immediately alienated me and proved how little they understand my stance on their perspective. They said, "Well, whoever your god is....". So, I told them, "Look, I don't believe in a "god" or a "higher power" or anything." So, I ended up trying to sneak out of the room while they all prayed to their version of whatever god or higher power they simultaneously decided everyone must believe in. They all acted like I was a disease after that, and I'm sure some of them had the nerve to pity me. Typical closed minded, christian mentality. I just can't stand the phoniness.



posted on Sep, 3 2003 @ 10:39 AM
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This was taken directly from the NA website.
Narcotics Anonymous is an international, community-based association of recovering drug addicts with more than 31,000 weekly meetings in over 100 countries worldwide.
"NA is a nonprofit fellowship or society of men and women for whom drugs had become a major problem. We meet regularly to help each other stay clean. ... We are not interested in what or how much you used ... but only in what you want to do about your problem and how we can help."
Membership is open to all drug addicts, regardless of the particular drug or combination of drugs used. When adapting AA's First Step, the word "addiction" was substituted for "alcohol," thus removing drug-specific language and reflecting the "disease concept" of addiction.
There are no social, religious, economic, racial, ethnic, national, gender, or class-status membership restrictions. There are no dues or fees for membership; while most members regularly contribute small sums to help cover the expenses of meetings, such contributions are not mandatory.

Narcotics Anonymous provides a recovery process and support network inextricably linked together. One of the keys to NA's success is the therapeutic value of addicts working with other addicts. Members share their successes and challenges in overcoming active addiction and living drug-free productive lives through the application of the principles contained within the Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions of NA. These principles are the core of the Narcotics Anonymous recovery program. Principles incorporated within the steps include:

admitting there is a problem;

seeking help;

engaging in a thorough self-examination;

confidential self-disclosure;

making amends for harm done; and

helping other drug addicts who want to recover.

Central to the Narcotics Anonymous program is its emphasis on practicing spiritual principles. Narcotics Anonymous itself is non-religious, and each member is encouraged to cultivate an individual understanding-religious or not-of this "spiritual awakening."
*********************************
It sounds to me that you had a bad experience with meetings because of where you attended. Each meeting is different due to the people that attend. I was told (taught) that your higher power could be "ANYTHING". Anything you believe in that inspires you to get well. I have NOT ATTENDED a meeting in about 2 years because I chose not to focus on my addiction every single day. I am still recovering and will always be an addict and I know I can return to the fellowship any time I need too. I feel sorry for those of you who had bad experiences and don't feel like the program worked, but for me...it did...and still does. My obligation to NA is to carry the message to other addicts that the program works and there are people that understand exactly what you are going thru. I was NEVER arrested or COURT ORDERED to attend and I think that makes a big difference in the recovery process and how you look at NA in general.


[Edited on 9/3/2003 by Venus]



posted on Sep, 3 2003 @ 10:49 AM
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Originally posted by MessedUpAnnie
Safe Injection Site

I'm glad Vancouver has this safe injection site. At first I was disgusted, especially since my tax dollars are paying for this. But, now I realize that these people aren't going to stop doing drugs just because I want them to and at least the used needles won't be in the playgrounds anymore.


But the addicts that just shot up will be. Maybe they can play with all the little kids! That would be nice....wouldn't it



posted on Sep, 3 2003 @ 03:09 PM
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Venus, so now you have traded your drugs for religion?

Whats the difference? both are addictive dangerous drugs that # up the human mind. My unlce turned Jesus freak after he got off the heroin.

I prefered him much better as a lying, stealing drug addict than a high on Jesus religious kook.

You simply traded one drug for another.

"Religion is the opiate of the masses"

-Karl Marx-

How sad but true.



posted on Sep, 3 2003 @ 04:15 PM
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Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Venus, so now you have traded your drugs for religion?

Whats the difference? both are addictive dangerous drugs that # up the human mind. My unlce turned Jesus freak after he got off the heroin.

I prefered him much better as a lying, stealing drug addict than a high on Jesus religious kook.

You simply traded one drug for another.

"Religion is the opiate of the masses"

-Karl Marx-

How sad but true.



Ya wanna know what is really sad? The fact that you only see what you want to see. I didn't trade addiction for religion. I do pray a lot more then I ever did before but I don't think that's a bad thing. I don't walk around pissed off at the world like a few of you do. I don't turn my back on my family like you do. I try to look at the whole picture, not just my part of it. I am trying to convince the few who don't understand that the world you know will not be the same if people are freely able to use hard drugs. All the arguements about legalizing it so it can be taxed and the whole SELFISH attitude that "I should be able to do anything I want with my body" is so unbelievable that it scares me. Your only concern is YOURSELF and what YOU want. What about society? What about the kids growing up in this day and age? What about the elderly who are being robbed of their social security checks so addicts can buy more dope? What about them? None of the people in support of legalization care about anyone except themselves. You want it legal so you don't have to serve time if you get caught. END OF STORY



posted on Sep, 3 2003 @ 05:04 PM
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Illegal drugs have not stopped the elderly from being robbed of thier SS checks. It has not stopped youth from doing drugs.

America, bar none, has the worlds WORST drug problem, and we have the toughest drug laws.

Selfish? what about you? how selfish is it of you to push your own personal problems on the rest of the population? So what if we turn backs on family? if family does things to piss us off and they become irreconcilable differences....why the hell should we not?

if drugs were legal, there would be alot less problems, but u cant see it that way.

You cant see how rich the govornment is getting from this war on drugs. War on drugs has caused so many violations of basic freedoms and rights it pales the patriot act in comparison. Its brutality, and totally un american to continue this charade.

Legalize drugs, period. if you have a problem with it, dont take them. But dont stick your nose inother peoples lives. if they aint personally bugging you, then leave them be. They shpould be locked up in jail, they shouldnt have thier property stolen by the govornment, they should not be thrown in with real criminals simply because they wanna get loaded.



posted on Sep, 3 2003 @ 05:53 PM
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Skadi - I'm sorry - but we need to just agree to disagree. I hadn't seen this earlier on...Please read:


Originally posted by Zion Mainframe
Oh boy another drugs thread...

Yes, drugs (cannabis) should be legalised FOR MEDICAL purposes only.

Great, I love these kids with their fancy drug avatars, you really think you're tough and interesting with an avatar like that, huh?

Blah, that's SO lame.
Here in Holland it's almost as normal as drinking alcohol. The problems caused by drugs are enormous. And by legalising it, the problems will only increase. Why? Well if the drugs are leagalised, you will have to pay tax on them too. Making it even more expensive than it already is.
It will be so expensive that the drug addicts have to steel even more too get some money toghter for their addiction.
Surely it will be less atractive to teens that want to experiment, since it's not illegal anymore there is no element of danger, doing something illegal.
BUT, it will be a lot easier for kids to gain acces to drugs.
I've seen it all, kids that end u doing shi!tty jobs due to their addiction. They fail tests at school, because they are too tired and too stoned to do their homework.
A friend of mine ended up in a mental institute. Another commited suicide.

No drugs for me ever, and it should only be legalised for medical purposes, not for fancy teens, blah



posted on Sep, 3 2003 @ 06:35 PM
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AA and/or NA is comprised of biased people, who have a history of making bad decisions themselves, or were traumatized by family members who have this problem. Drugs and/or alcohol have only increased their inability to think rationally, therefore they close their minds to the possibility that this is not so with everyone on the planet. They succumb to a religion of closed mindedness, and wish to enforce it upon all. Even those who are "recovered" addicts suffer in their weakness, and it shows. Physical addiction is nothing in comparison to mental addiction. Some people don't have the mental addiction. I've known many who do, and they're weak individuals. They were weak before they used drugs, living a fallacy in which they pretended they were strong. I've experimented with almost every drug except heroin, and I can take them or leave them. I've even smoked crack (many times, in fact), and walked away from it because I thought it was the most unsatisfying high I've ever experienced. That was years ago, and I've not even wanted to smoke it since. I've seen many people fall victim to their weakness. I'll just never be one of them, period. I am in control of everything in my life, except the banishment of certain drugs, of which mere possession of could land me in jail, or worse, prison. My only problem with drugs is that they're illegal. If you are irresponsible, yes, drugs can make you even more irresponsible. But the fact that that was one of your original character traits remains. Drugs don't cause irresponsible or careless actions. Irresponsible or careless people who use drugs do.



posted on Sep, 3 2003 @ 06:44 PM
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Not trying to stir things up too much but,

The problems caused by drugs are enormous. And by legalising it, the problems will only increase. Why? Well if the drugs are leagalised, you will have to pay tax on them too. Making it even more expensive than it already is.
It will be so expensive that the drug addicts have to steel even more too get some money toghter for their addiction.

From a fiscal standpoint I would disagree.
First of all I AM NOT FOR LEGALIZING HARD DRUGS! (just wanted to make that clear
)
I think there is a revenue source that has been unexplored is all.
Let's look at JUST legalizing marijuana.

Rather than bore you with a huge regurgitation I'll direct you to some info that is well researched.


The societal costs of propagandizing against marijuana and marijuana law reform, funding anti-marijuana 'science', interdicting marijuana, eradicating domestically grown marijuana and industrial hemp, law enforcement, prosecuting and incarcerating marijuana smokers costs U.S. taxpayers in excess of $12 billion annually.

www.norml.org...

Then there is this entire part of it...


Hemp is a distinct variety of the plant species cannabis sativa L. that contains minimal (less than 1%) amounts of tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the primary psychoactive ingredient in marijuana. It is a tall, slender, fibrous plant similar to flax or kenaf. Various parts of the plant can be utilized in the making of textiles, paper, paints, clothing, plastics, cosmetics, foodstuffs, insulation, animal feed and other products. The hemp plant is currently harvested for commercial purposes in over 30 nations, including Canada, Japan and the European Union. Nevertheless, U.S. law strictly forbids its domestic cultivation. NORML lobbies state and federal legislators to lift this ban and recognize hemp as a commercial agricultural commodity.


www.norml.org...

I could go on and on with the money that could be used from these sources but you can find most of it on that site.



posted on Sep, 3 2003 @ 09:50 PM
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Skadi you make some excellent points. And I would like to also point out that regardless of any tax dollars recieved from any legalization, the money saved from cutting back 'the war on drugs' would be staggering. The war on drugs is the worst undertaking of the federal goverment ever (besides possibly social security). I also agree with Satyr, its not the drugs, its the drug users, and they would be just as much of a burden on society if they were not high. As a fan of recreational drugs, and a normal contributing member of society. myself and those that i associate with are living proof. The 'problem' drug users woudl be hooked on something else equally degenerate whether they were on drugs or not. Venus seems to be currently addicted to close-mindedness. That is a terrible drug.



posted on Sep, 3 2003 @ 11:44 PM
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If drugs were to be legalized, it should of been done a long time ago. then I think that the market for them would not be as big. Also if they were leagel, i dont think they would appeal so much to teenagers.



posted on Sep, 4 2003 @ 01:05 PM
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Well...I have spent countless hours now pondering what everyone here has said and I came to this conclusion:
I (having been there) know what will really happen if they legalize hard drugs and the impact it will have on society (which is what I care about - having two children myself that I want to protect). I know that NONE of you will change my mind so I can't expect to change YOUR minds, We are arguing over something that is NEVER EVER going to happen anyways. I do believe that they will legalize pot - which I can live with if they treat it as cigarettes are now. For those of you who have formed an opinion about NA.....I wish you the best of luck and I beg that anyone who reads this, that has a problem with drugs and WANTS HELP...PLEASE KEEP AN OPEN MIND AND GIVE YOURSELF A BREAK. Go to the nearest fellowship and I promise you ...you will find someone that does care about what you are going thru and will help you stay clean. At the end of the day, that's ALL THAT MATTERS. Good luck to you all

~Venus~



posted on Sep, 4 2003 @ 01:31 PM
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SKADI - before you go quoting people like Karl Marx...you should study it first


[Edited on 9/4/2003 by Venus]





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