London Bombings

There is no need to apologize, for your neighbours to the North do not in fact hold contempt toward America or Americans as a whole, only to those who inspire bloodlust and the likes of philpott who sees anyone in disagreement with that agenda as the enemy, which would include at least half of his fellow Americans.

look here , you have no right to downtalk america, our people, or our leader! you arent from here, so keep your mouth shut. no, philpott and the likes do NOT see those who disagree with us as enemies, just people like you who disagree with us and then call us idiots for it just because you think your better than us.
im not saying philpott was in the right with this argument, but he was definitely more mature about it than you were. grow up, everybody.

[edit on 10/7/2005 by Kitsunegari]

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
It is at this present time that I realise and acquiesce that Canada must now exponentially increase its commitment to military development, not for the purpose of complementing our neighbour to the south, but to provide defence against it.

It is not that SomewhereinBetween disagrees with anyone that she might be considered the enemy. It is because of the statement above. By making a statement like this and then climbing to the moral high ground to mock one who disagrees, she is doing exactly what she is accusing me of, but, of course, a careful review of the thread reveals all to the more coherent among us.

SomewhereinBetween is projecting herself onto the world and her thoughts into the minds of our leaders because she fears that the terrorists will come for her next. Because of that fear she will betray anyone, even her closest friends to spare herself any discomfort. That's pretty admirable, don't you think?


[edit on 2005/7/10 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by syntaxer
First of all, there is no article or evidence which pre-dates September 11th, 2001 containing the Terrorist organization name Al-Qaeda, they simply ceased to exist! I Dare anyone here to prove me wrong.

Sure, No problem!

Al-queda in the 90's link #1

Pakistan helped al-Qaeda members launch their operations in Afghanistan in the 1990s and even secretly ran a major training camp used by Osama bin Laden's terror network, according to US intelligence documents made public here.

Al-queda in the 90's link #2

The claim that al-Qaeda played a role in the Balkan wars of the 1990s came from an alleged FBI document former Yugoslav leader Slobodan Milosevic presented in his defence before the Hague tribunal last week. Mr. Milosevic faces 66 counts of war crimes and genocide.

*snip*

Balkan experts say the presence of al-Qaeda militants in Kosovo and Bosnia is well documented.

And the funny thing is...like last time with the state.gov link, you cannot claim these are Gov't bias sites. Hell Prisonplanet.com is about as left-wing as left-wing can get.

Im saying the info on the sites are true....I don't think it is. Im just saying that you're incorrect about your assumption that Al-Queda is not pre-9/11.





[edit on 10/7/2005 by SportyMB]

Hey Sporty, I tried that but it looks like syntaxer will not see the truth...

What I don't understand is why Al Quida is stupid enough to attack a nation days away from pulling out their armed forces in the middle-east? The U.K. had the final decision to pull their forces out because of public uprises against the war. Now, Al Quida is the leading 'terrorist' group in the world, these people are NOT stupid, no matter what your prejudices may think.

Why, would such highly trained 'terrorists' attack and provoke MORE bloodshed in their homeland when the people they attack are days away from getting out of their homeland? They do not benefit, so WHY? I will tell you why, its a matter of Cui Bono. (Latin for 'who benefits') The easiest way to figure out a perpatrator it to find out whom benefits from the act!

Who benefits from the war on terror in general? We get to keep the 'terrorists' at bay, We get to provoke more fighting to meet our oil demand, We get to establish our ways of government in foreign land and insure democrasy in more parts of the world to supply our mass corperatization.

COME ON PEOPLE! Get a grip, we had provoked the war, we committed 9/11 and now, WE are bombing england! It is all for fuel, democrasy and control. HE lied, THEY died, keep the peasants TERRIFIED!

Originally posted by SportyMB
And the funny thing is...like last time with the state.gov link, you cannot claim these are Gov't bias sites. Hell Prisonplanet.com is about as left-wing as left-wing can get.

You misunderstood my objective, I'm after the existence of Al-Qaeda documents which predates September 11th 2001. Written about Al-Qaeda before the actual WTC attacks happened, and preferably from a source which hasn't cried wolf.

Ala'the US Government!

In the wake of the Sept. 11 terrorist strikes on the United States, NATO began to worry about the presence in the Balkans of the Islamist terrorist cells it had supported throughout the 1990s.

These are a dime-a-dozen my friend.

Although Hague prosecutors have challenged the veracity of the document, which Mr. Milosevic identified as a Congressional statement from the FBI dated last December, Balkan experts say the presence of al-Qaeda militants in Kosovo and Bosnia is well documented.

Great! So let's find these apparant documents which predates Sept 11th..

Originally posted by Jedi_Master
Hey Sporty, I tried that but it looks like syntaxer will not see the truth...

fabricated truth i think you seek not?

[edit on 11-7-2005 by syntaxer]

syntaxer, just so I can make sure we are on the sheet here,
Are you saying that Al-Qaeda did not exist pior to September 11 2001?

You misunderstood my objective, I'm after the existence of Al-Qaeda documents which predates September 11th 2001. Written about Al-Qaeda before the actual WTC attacks happened, and preferably from a source which hasn't cried wolf.

Ahh, I see now, unfortunately that's hard to come about considering that the documents are most likely classified and if they are
on the net they are most likely (as you said) from some 3rd rate bias website with a clear agenda (left or right). And I agree, Prisonplanet.com does cry wolf....Alot.

And yes, I misunderstood you...articles that pre-date, I didnt catch that.

First of all, there is no article or evidence which pre-dates September 11th, 2001 containing the Terrorist organization name Al-Qaeda, they simply ceased to exist! I Dare anyone here to prove me wrong

My search continues, I will produce valid sources to debunk your Al-qeada is not pre-9/11 theory.

sporty


[edit on 11/7/2005 by SportyMB]

Originally posted by syntaxer
First of all, there is no article or evidence which pre-dates September 11th, 2001 containing the Terrorist organization name Al-Qaeda, they simply ceased to exist! I Dare anyone here to prove me wrong.

Besides what others mentioned already...
I did a quick scan through this thread and I don't think anyone has mentioned the US embassy bombings yet.

There's also Ahmed Ressam and his millinium plot

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
I did a quick scan through this thread and I don't think anyone has mentioned the US embassy bombings yet.

Along with the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, the 1996 Khobar Towers attacks in Saudi Arabia, and the 2000 attack on the USS Cole in Yemen, the Embassy Bombing is one of the major anti-American terrorist attacks that preceded the attacks of September 11th. The comparatively restrained response of the Clinton Administration, which included the cruise missile strikes of Operation Infinite Reach and the arrest and prosecution of some of the perpetrators, has sometimes been cited as a factor in emboldening al Qaeda to undertake the September 11th terrorist attacks of 2001, and also raised political debate in the United States about whether to respond to terrorism with a military or law enforcement paradigm.

I challenged in providing documents and/or articles that predates, in origin, September 11th 2001. argh.. Unless your source had the ability to forsee the future? Both sources/articles were written after 9/11, proving my theory RIGHT once again.

There's also Ahmed Ressam and his millinium plot

Just days after the terrorist attacks in the U.S. on Sept. 11, 2001, investigators interrogated Ressam at the federal detention center near Seattle. They reportedly showed him pictures of the 19 hijackers. He said he knew none of them but did provide other names of people in so-called "sleeper cells" in North America. Ressam has also added significant new information about Al Qaeda's interest in chemical and biological weapons.

Surely, If one wanted to investigate the history of 'Al-Qeada' there would be factual documents written about their terrorist organization before the year 2001 right? Of course, unless they were a fabricated enemy of the US government is the point i'm trying to make!

I can easily uncover material about John Lennon before he became a Beetle right? Why can't I do the same for Usama Bin Laden and his association with Al-Qeada?

[edit on 11-7-2005 by syntaxer]

Looks like my work here is done, Good work ThatsJustWeird

Wow, I can't believe I did not think of that...the Embassy bombings.

CNN article on Embassy Bombings

Also for those who whould like to see articles and documents that pre-date 9/11, here ya go
Enjoy!!

the wealthy Saudi businessman who heads the worldwide terrorist group "al Qaeda."

Here's another link with MANY pre 9/11 Al-Qaeda info and articles

Pre 9/11 article on Al-Qaeda.

Al Qaeda does pre-date 9/11......




[edit on 11/7/2005 by SportyMB]

Originally posted by SportyMB
CNN article on Embassy Bombings

October 16, 2001 Posted: 8:01 PM EDT

Also for those who whould like to see articles and documents that pre-date 9/11, here ya go

Enjoy!!

The Washington File is a product of the Office of International Information Programs, U.S. Department of State. Web site: usinfo.state.gov...

Nice try! However, my claims are that the U.S Government is/was purposely fabricating the existance of Al-Qaeda.

Here's another link with MANY pre 9/11 Al-Qaeda info

This is fantastic! Excellent find SportyMB. Notice how the links/urls to the articles regarding "Al-Qaeda" simply cease to exist before the June 19, 2001 article? Although you win technically, considering this date and how it predates the Sept 11, 2001 event. However, there are no links as the CBC timeline goes further in time.

Quite suspecious huh? This does play into my theory..

EDIT: The June 19, 2001 url is sent into a page which contains CBC News Online | Updated December 02, 2004 and the opening paragraph starts in " Since Sept. 11, 2001," Clearly written after 9/11.

Pre 9/11 article on Al-Qaeda.

Al Qaeda does pre-date 9/11......

Distributed by the Office of International Information Programs, U.S.
Department of State. Web site: usinfo.state.gov...

Another source relating to a document written by the U.S government


[edit on 11-7-2005 by syntaxer]

[edit on 11-7-2005 by syntaxer]

Syntaxer, stop. Please.
You said articles or evidence. I haven't got time to subscribe to all those newspapers just to see their archieves just for you, but you are being provided with plenty of evidence that Al Q exsisted before 9/11.


al Qaeda

al-Qae·da or al-Qai·da (ăl-kā'də, -kī'də, -kä'ē-də)
n.
An international organization of loosely affiliated cells that carry out attacks and bombings in the attempt to disrupt the economies and influence of Western nations and advance Islamic fundamentalism.

[Arabic al-qā‘ida, the base : al-, the + qā‘ida, foundation, base, feminine participle of qa‘ada, to sit.]


Here's what you're getting mixed up. From that same link and wiki

Although "al-Qaeda" is the name of the organization used in popular culture, the organization rarely uses the name to formally refer to itself. The name "al-Qaeda" was coined by the United States government based on the name of a computer file of bin Laden's that listed the names of contacts he had made in Afghanistan, which talks about the organization as "the base" of the jihad.

You're getting caught up in the technicality of the name. Fact is, no matter how organized or disorganized they are and no matter whatever they decide to call themselves...they still exsist.

Although "al-Qaeda" is the name of the organization used in popular culture, the organization rarely uses the name to formally refer to itself. The name "al-Qaeda" was coined by the United States government based on the name of a computer file of bin Laden's that listed the names of contacts he had made in Afghanistan, which talks about the organization as "the base" of the jihad.

Exactly, the Maktab al-Khadamat "MAK" was real, so was Jama'at al-Tawhid wal Jihad. But how real is "Al-Qeada in Iraq?" or my favorite "Secret organization of Al-Qaeda in Europe?"

Would you be concerned if the U.S Government had the credibility to name "al-Qaeda of the Quicky-Mart" a terrorist organization?

It's all fabricated man!

I rest my case, thank you very much.

Would you be concerned if the U.S Government had the credibility to name "al-Qaeda of the Quicky-Mart" a terrorist organization?

Oh man...that is friggen hilarious

I know it would never happen...but if they did say something like that, I don't know what I would do...maybe move to Canada. Naw, not Canada..it can't be that bad joking

Well for some reason OBL was in and or leading Al-Qaeda , Al-Quisha, Al- Quifa, Al-Qeada, Al quida, Al-quito, Al-taco and all the other AL-Q's you can think of....So no matter what the name, it is the SAME organization with the same people one way or another....same connections and same intent...oh, and all of them have OBL in common.

Just wanted to post this virus alert, of an email claiming to be a video of the London bombings is a trojan.

While I realize many are fully aware of email dangers, I am also aware of the vast numbers that are not.

Story: Virus exploits London Tube bombs

Misfit

About an hour after I saw on my TV screen the terrible news of the bombings I started to think a number of things

1. When Blair or the Queen move anywhere in the UK there is a security operation mounted at least 6 weeks before in the area that they are going to visit in which Special Branch check every manhole cover and seal them off and there is a exclusion zone erected around the venue for about two miles in which members of the public cannot get near

2. The UK police arrested about 5 or 6 people a month or so ago around the UK who were suspected of terrorist activities - If this was the case would it not seem reasonable that if all the world leaders were up in Scotland that someone in the security services would say " hang on? What about the defence of London?" If there was going to be a terrorist attack it could not have happened in Scotland because of the security up there - it would have to be in the next best place - so London was the target

3. Given that the number of deaths and casualties were nothing on the scale of 9/11 how many people would go along with the view that this was a test for the emergency services of the UK who are continually being told that Al Quaeda are planning something on the same scale as 9/11?

4. The Metropolitan Police Commissioner went on TV to try and reassure the public that all they were dealing with was a series of "incidents" Are the public to be treated like complete idiots all of the time - Londoners and people who live and work there have been used to the sound of bombs for many years and this is something they live with daily - even after Reuters news agency had received a call claiming the explosions to be the work of a terrorist organisation the Police Commissioner still stuck to his story and berated the media for scaring the UK people

5 in my view the Police and the Security community are the ones with egg on their faces over this incident as they are so adept at telling the British people that they are winning the war on terrorism and yet their intelligence failed them seriously this time

Why did Blair leave the G8 summit to come to London? What good did he think he was gonna do by coming to the capital and leaving all those other world leaders to stich up the Conference in his absence

You gotta say: Makes you think does'nt it!!

Originally posted by syntaxer
Exactly, the Maktab al-Khadamat "MAK" was real, so was Jama'at al-Tawhid wal Jihad. But how real is "Al-Qeada in Iraq?" or my favorite "Secret organization of Al-Qaeda in Europe?"

Would you be concerned if the U.S Government had the credibility to name "al-Qaeda of the Quicky-Mart" a terrorist organization?

It's all fabricated man!

I rest my case, thank you very much.

What's fabricated? You just said yourself they exsist.
How real is "Al-Qaeda in Iraq"? Why are you asking me? Why don't you ask the families of the thousands who have died by their hand if they're real or not?
You're still getting caught up in the name. Who cares what they call themselves or what the US government calls them!?

Originally posted by NinjaCodeMonkey
I have just been reading that the G8 summit isn't going to focus on the African aid crisis and climate control anymore. They are just going to concentrate on the war on terrorism. Do you think these bombings were an inside job in order to keep up the war on terror and so that Bush does not have to send money to Africa and can keep polluting like crazy?

I second your impression, but not about G8 or Africa. It is more about doing whatever is needed (regardless of promises, expectations and human rights) to keep the Iraqi occupation force. The resistance is getting out of hand and democracy ain't working, so...

In the middle ages, personal wars would last for lifetimes. Occasionally some peasants would get trounced or their villages burnt, but this was not the real goal of the wars. The wars were conducted by an armed elite, for their own reasons. Probably the peasants would believe the garbage told to them, and point at the "bad guys" and call them "terrorists". To them, the terrorists seemed to be hell-bent on random destruction, while in reality the peasants were just unlucky bystanders destined to never understand the world they lived in.

Originally posted by Kitsunegari

There is no need to apologize, for your neighbours to the North do not in fact hold contempt toward America or Americans as a whole, only to those who inspire bloodlust and the likes of philpott who sees anyone in disagreement with that agenda as the enemy, which would include at least half of his fellow Americans.

look here , you have no right to downtalk america, our people, or our leader! you arent from here, so keep your mouth shut.

To the latter demand first. You will enforce such a command how exactly?

Now I suggest you sit back, take a deep breath and ask for some assistance in interpreting my words, for you certainly portray the fundamental ability to do so. I have every right to speak as I choose, thank you, but more than that if the words I have now coloured and bolded for you is representative of "downtalk" then you need to start schooling all over again.

no, philpott and the likes do NOT see those who disagree with us as enemies, just people like you who disagree with us and then call us idiots for it just because you think your better than us..

I see, you reserve the right to label whomever you like the enemy. With that attitude it is no wonder you find it necessary to defend the very simplistic, hedonistic and antagonist unworldy view you embrace.


Philpot- "SomewhereinBetween is projecting herself onto the world and her thoughts into the minds of our leaders because she fears that the terrorists will come for her next. Because of that fear she will betray anyone, even her closest friends to spare herself any discomfort. That's pretty admirable, don't you think? "And I suggest you attend classes with Kitsunegari.

Truth often hurts, and those who cannot deal with truth tend to resort to demands of others to shut up, or threaten them with violence as the two of you have done. In essence your best defence is your own worst enemy.





[edit on 7/11/05 by SomewhereinBetween]