Black Ribbon For London

Ok let’s not turn this into a bad thread,

You have to realise that some people deal with tragedy in different ways,

We all cope in different way’s Sometimes when things happen in this world we feel helpless, we want to do something to help.... but we don’t know what,

Soooo out comes the banners.. the flag waving the notes of condolence,
And also on site’s the Avatars, black bands... as a way of letting all know that we feel for the loss of people, Its just another way of coping, doing something,
And doing something together, Now you can choose to wear something or not in your avatars, but please allow those who feel the need to do so... to do so...

It’s their way of reaching out and helping, its there way of dealing and joining together,

Please respect that,

Originally posted by Kriz_4
Frankley I find it sick. djohnsto77 I actually find your avatar offensive, as a British person.

As an American I find practically every single one of your posts offensive.

I'll give a moment of silence and prayer.

Originally posted by kinglizard
How about you let people mourn and show support for their countrymen. How about you stop looking for fight and have some respect for these people.

So bringing up the point that these people don't mourn for those their governments and media deem "less then human" is equivalent to "looking for a fight"? In other words, it is now offensive and equivalent to "looking for a fight" to say that people in other countries are just as real, just as human, and just as deserving of sympathy as any other person on the planet? And it is perfectly okay to be so arrogant as to propose to mourn only a select few that you judge as "better" than others, that you judge as more deserving of our sympathy than others, simply because those select few happened to be in your country or in an allied country?

Yes, the 50 or so people killed in London are much more important than 300,000 or more innocent Iraqi civilians mercilessly slaughtered by the US war machine. Apparently there is no question who deserves to be mourned in your eyes.

Originally posted by asala


Soooo out comes the banners.. the flag waving the notes of condolence,
And also on site’s the Avatars, black bands... as a way of letting all know that we feel for the loss of people, Its just another way of coping, doing something,
And doing something together,

Which of course helps neither the victims, nor helps to determine who the perpetrators are and why they are doing what they are doing. So this does nothing except create an comfortable and feel-good illusion that you're doing something. This is kinda like an Ostrich that buries its head in the sand - at least it's coping, right? That's all that matters!

Now you can choose to wear something or not in your avatars, but please allow those who feel the need to do so... to do so...
It’s their way of reaching out and helping, its there way of dealing and joining together,

They are not helping anyone but themselves! They are not reaching out, they are "reaching in", since they are only trying to make themselves feel better - waving a flag or wearing a ribbon helps no one but the person who does it and is therefore satisfied that he somehow "helped". If your family member, loved one, or friend was killed in some bizarre explosion, and you had no idea who did it or why, would you prefer someone helps you figure this out and hopefully prevent this from happening to others, or that they wear a ribbon for you? I'm sure it's "nice" to know that other people care, but the problem is, if the only way they show their concern is by waving a flag or wearing a ribbon, does it really amount to concern? If your loved one dies and you don't know who killed him, do you show your concern by wearing a ribbon, or trying to find who did it and why? Which action helps more?

Not all of us live in London and can materially help aiding the wounded, comforting survivors, or in the investigation personally. No matter how insignificant an avatar or signature on this website may be in the scheme of things, it's still a symbol of solidarity with our British brethren who've suffered so much in this tragedy.

I find it a much more tasteful way to respect the dead than spinning fantastical conspiratorial theories that blame Blair, Bush or some other boogie man while exonerating the terrorists that are obviously responsible for this tragedy.

Pin Or Pennant

For those of my fellow Americans who may be ribboned-out but still want to share your thoughts, I snarfed a picture of a flag pin off the 'Net and am using it in my avatars.

Here's a GIF with transparency:

To each their own.

My attitude about all this is that true friends draw closer together when times are hard, and that's exactly what we do.

Everybody copes with tragedies in a different way, and most people are only aware of the magnitude of it when it hits close to home.
There are quite a few british members on this board so naturaly threads like these understandable. We all feel with you, that goes without saying.
The biritish people here who are wearing some kind of sign in their avatars have every right to do that, for it is THEM who have been hit.
So I shall not diminish your sorrow. There is time for grief, and this is it.
There is time for finding out the truth, that time will come.

But to all the others , while you are wearing the buttons, ribbons, support avatars and all that, think that the people who truly understand what Londoners feel are Iraqis who go through this hell EVERY SINGLE DAY.

If we are going to wear signs of sorrow, then we should wear it for all humanity, for all the unnamed victims who have no representatives on message boards to start threads like these.

I have chosen not to put anything special in my avatar because the hell on this earth didn't start with London attack or 9/11, it was always here.
I have lived through one and today we mark the 10th anniversary of our 9/11.
Every day is 9/11 for someone on this Earth. Keep that in mind.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Not all of us live in London and can materially help aiding the wounded, comforting survivors, or in the investigation personally.

I find it a much more tasteful way to respect the dead than spinning fantastical conspiratorial theories that blame Blair, Bush or some other boogie man while exonerating the terrorists that are obviously responsible for this tragedy.

for once someone with a bit of sense!!!! well done djohnsto77
some of us do live in London and it is our way of paying repsect to those that have lost their lives, just as some people lay wreaths, others burn their dead, others burn bits of paper as the soul goes forth..etc etc
why is there always someone who wants to turn everything into an argument?
you have NOT been told by the moderators that you HAVE GOT TO use a black ribbon in your avatar? so why argue about it??
either you use it or you dont....couldnt really be any more simple!

for the fellow who wrote ''he is from London and he finds it sick'' im sorry to hear that .
for the fellow that wrote '' what about all the innocent civilians killed in iraq''
my answere to both is .....those in London that lost their lives were also INNOCENT, and i wear a red poppey for rememberance day, does that make you sick too?

Originally posted by Kriz_4
I know that this symbolism is being done with only good intentions, however.

Frankley I find it sick. djohnsto77 I actually find your avatar offensive, as a British person. Its just like all the mini waves people were wearing on their avatars after the tsumami, I found that visually sickening and offensive.

I do know that this is being done with best intentions, but I find it distasteful.

No disrespect meant to any involved in the "bumper sticker" wearing.

SPOT ON mate!!

Originally posted by djohnsto77
I find it a much more tasteful way to respect the dead than spinning fantastical conspiratorial theories that blame Blair, Bush or some other boogie man while exonerating the terrorists that are obviously responsible for this tragedy.

And who are those terrorists that you claim are "obviously responsible for this tragedy"? It seems the only people who truly benefit from this are the governments of US and Britain - this helps Bush's ratings, and it allows Blair to tighten controls on the population by expanding the powers of police and limiting the population's civil rights even more.

Originally posted by Kriz_4
I know that this symbolism is being done with only good intentions, however.
Frankley I find it sick.

Well you know what they say, "Good intentions pave the way to hell". The Spanish Inquisition was done with good intentions. Nazi Germany was done with good intention (Hitler, including the entire country, believed this was indeed best for the world). But good is subjective, you can do anything believing that it's a good thing or "for the best", but such personal subjective perspectives don't change the objective reality of your actions.

In the case of mourning ONLY when those who die happen to be in your country or an allied country? Hypocracy! Why?

When someone else kills many innocents, especially when those innocents happen to be our countrymen, it's a terrible tragedy and we all feel so upset and sympathetic! When we go to another country and blow up a lot more innocent people, ah no big deal, just collateral damage, it happens. In fact, we then start wearing "support our troops" stickers on our McCars because apparently blowing up innocent people in other countries for no reason is actually a great thing, don't you know!

Now, am I just turning things into an argument? Well if you call stating your opinion "starting an argument". I realise the mods aren't making anyone wear any ribbons, I am simply expressing my thoughts regarding those who wear ribbons selectively, and practice what can be called "selective sympathy", which means, sympathizing with some, but having no sympathy for others, simply because those others are in a different country, practice a different religion, or have a different way of life.

911 was also a big tragedy, and the world was shocked and full of sympathy. What about if those same people who died on 911 were systematically murdered one at a time over a period of one year, would this then be so "sad"? No not really, there are murders happening all over the US all the time, they are simply "statistics" and nothing more, most people, unless they are personally impacted by a murder, do not care. But if it's a whole bunch of people all at ONCE, suddenly it's a terrible tragedy and we feel so sorry for their families and everyone else. Once again, what about the families and loved ones of those who do NOT die all at once, but die over a period of time under similar circumstances, do they not matter, are they just "statistics"? This dehymanizes them, and no one would like it if I called 911 just a statistic and no big deal, would they? No, if I were to do that, people would have too many emotional defensive reactions, suddenly it's "wrong", and I'd be belittling the event, and I'd be called every name you can think of, even equated with the terrorists responsible for the event perhaps.

So while the murders of innocent civilians in Iraq and other countries around the world continues, while terrorism in those countries is a daily affair, it seems that they are ignored by us on the other side of the globe, seen as just statistics, and dehumanized by our mainstream media. When was the last time there was a similar explosion in Iraq and everyone started wearing ribbons for those dead? Just because our "leaders" call them "the enemy" does not make them any less human, unless we pretend it does.



[edit on 13-7-2005 by lilblam]

Originally posted by lilblam
And who are those terrorists that you claim are "obviously responsible for this tragedy"? It seems the only people who truly benefit from this are the governments of US and Britain - this helps Bush's ratings, and it allows Blair to tighten controls on the population by expanding the powers of police and limiting the population's civil rights even more.

The 4 British-born Muslims found to have perpetrated it. I don't see how this helps the government, it'd be far better for the war effort if they were immigrants from Iran or something.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
The 4 British-born Muslims found to have perpetrated it. I don't see how this helps the government, it'd be far better for the war effort if they were immigrants from Iran or something.

Well first, even if those Muslims have perpetrated it (can you provide a link to the evidence of that cuz I wasn't aware of that), it is quite possible that they were hired by someone else. Must look above the lackey! The point I was making is, all such terrorist attacks help the government because it helps them tighten the noose on the population and take more rights away and esatblish more draconian laws in the name of "security". So it seems like the only peole that win is the respective governments that get more power and control thanks to the terrorist acts.