London Attacker 'Home Grown'

Police now searching houses in Leeds - at least one controlled explosion - we may have found where they were.

This is actually interesting since there was an article in Foreign Affairs recently that discussed the inevitability of just this situation.

As a consequence of demography, history, ideology, and policy, western Europe now plays host to often disconsolate Muslim offspring, who are its citizens in name but not culturally or socially. In a fit of absentmindedness, during which its academics discoursed on the obsolescence of the nation-state, western Europe acquired not a colonial empire but something of an internal colony, whose numbers are roughly equivalent to the population of Syria[...] A volatile mix of European nativism and immigrant dissidence challenges what the Danish sociologist Ole Waever calls "societal security," or national cohesion. To make matters worse, the very isolation of these diaspora communities obscures their inner workings, allowing mujahideen to fundraise, prepare, and recruit for jihad with a freedom available in few Muslim countries

There may well be a group of 4 men lured to London
Will the alleged Kings Cross video be released?
Probably - so we must accept that 4 men were lured to London
Did they then suicide bomb the Tube and a bus?
Doubtful - the bombs were mostly planted by agents operating in stationing sheds overnight and the train bombs exploded simultaneously
The sequence of events is plain

[edit on 12-7-2005 by dh]

No evidence at all for either theory - yet. For the moment the official line is sounding pretty good to me.

Assuming for a second it's in the UK's interests to blow up its own people why London? - the economic impact is far too great if it's just to smooth the way for ID cards (the silliest I've heard yet).

Anything's possible but I'd wait a bit longer before the wild conspiracies are aired

You suspect that a few young stupid and angry muslims , duped by the blateral feud, were conned into some London meeting with Mr Islam Big
The life snuffed out of them, and their identities then conveniently placed at the sites of explosions
Such an easy ploy

Originally posted by dh
You suspect that a few young stupid and angry muslims , duped by the blateral feud, were conned into some London meeting with Mr Islam Big
The life snuffed out of them, and their identities then conveniently placed at the sites of explosions
Such an easy ploy

Perhaps, perhaps not.

Usually the "brainwashing" (and I use that term loosely) takes place over many months, if not years, and generally it seems to take considerably more planning for an Al Qaeda-like strike to come to fruition (I'm going on the assumption that Al Qaeda does indeed exist, for the sake of this thread, before anyone asks ). However, it's not outwith the realm of possibility for the above scenario to have taken place.

I refuse to jump on either bandwagon just yet - there isn't anywhere near enough evidence to support the "conspiracy theory", and there's not enough proof that it was perpetrated by four sole Muslim extremists, though frankly, I'm more inclined to think the truth lies somewhere in the "We just didn't have a clue anything like this would hit us - we got caught with our pants down by a real terrorist cell" area of thinking.

My jury is well and truly "still out".

Originally posted by Tinkleflower

Originally posted by dh
You suspect that a few young stupid and angry muslims , duped by the blateral feud, were conned into some London meeting with Mr Islam Big
The life snuffed out of them, and their identities then conveniently placed at the sites of explosions
Such an easy ploy

Perhaps, perhaps not.

Usually the "brainwashing" (and I use that term loosely) takes place over many months, if not years, and generally it seems to take considerably more planning for an Al Qaeda-like strike to come to fruition (I'm going on the assumption that Al Qaeda does indeed exist, for the sake of this thread, before anyone asks

). However, it's not outwith the realm of possibility for the above scenario to have taken place.

I refuse to jump on either bandwagon just yet - there isn't anywhere near enough evidence to support the "conspiracy theory", and there's not enough proof that it was perpetrated by four sole Muslim extremists, though frankly, I'm more inclined to think the truth lies somewhere in the "We just didn't have a clue anything like this would hit us - we got caught with our pants down by a real terrorist cell" area of thinking.

My jury is well and truly "still out".

That's true, but only because they've sought to cover all their bases
They've learnt from previous operations Yet still the MO is self-evident

What I cannot understand about this bombing is there were 4 people and 3 of them bombed 3 London's underground system, Why not the 4th?

It was said the bomber appeared flustered constantly looking into his bag shortly before he blew the bus up. Some people have suggested he could have been disarming the device but I find that doubtful. Just curious as to why he was said to be panicking.

Also as I've said he seems to be the odd one out here and the goverment stated that he blew himself up around exactly 1 hour later than the terrorists on the trains.

This brings up another question; all the train explosions happened at around the exact same time. Were they communicating up to that point when to detonate? Was it coincidence? Or was it an 'accident' and the bombers weren't supposed to be suicide bombers at all?

May have been a 5/6 minute gap in service - assuming he was aiming for Picc line (northbound) - or something else that caused him not to get on the train.

He certainly had loads of time between the Tube evacuation and the detonation to find better, more enclosed space for his bomb than the upstairs of a bus!

Maybe he changed his mind & was trying to turn it off?

Good points.

That's another thing right there. I find it wierd that he was on the top deck of the bus. You'd have thought he would be on the bottom so the whole thing would get torn to pieces.

I'm thinking he was using the bus to get somewhere else, perhaps a more crowded location but got spooked and decided to detonate right there and then on the bus or the bomb malfunctioned.

Lots of theories.

[edit on 12-7-2005 by Ultron10]

Originally posted by Ultron10
What I cannot understand about this bombing is there were 4 people and 3 of them bombed 3 London's underground system, Why not the 4th?

I think the bus bomb will be remembered as the decoy.

It's the only bomb that has people talking, it's the 'image' of this attack and it's the only one which doesn't fit the picture.

Having a bomb go off on a bus and having it attributed to a suicide bomber and/or human error etc etc is painting a level of amateurism to this otherwise extremely precise and professional attack. It doesn't make sense.

Why would he sit on the top level in the back if he was a suicide bomber?
Why would an otherwise professional bombing have this 'mistake' if he wasn't a suicide bomber?

While everyone is focusing on the bus blowing up and looking at the dramtic photo of a twisted bus, no one is talking about the fact all the train line areas had a 1000 man team doing drills for the very same attack, coincidence maybe but it also happened on 9/11.

These boys werent home grown. That home grown statement was forged from Scotland yards assessment of the size of the explosive. They were small in size but high output.

Now it appears the explosives are military grade which changes the dynamics a bit. Most of Al Qaedas explosives come from Serbia.
At least thats what the press says...do I beleive...who knows.

Lets wait and see. It appears the strength of resolve on the war on terror will do just what the bombing was supposed to do. Strengthen resolve.

Theres already strict pressure on the terrorist groups. Why would they pick a soft target like the UK and ratchet up the already high security. Even some of the terrorist docs Ive seen on the net say they wouldnt pick a target like that.

Inside deal. Ill say it now, and I think Im dead on. Nows its a matter of getting a scapegoat in time to make this deal look real.
Gods speed to the British detectives and justice system. The fox is in the henhouse...now go get em...

Peace

[edit on 13-7-2005 by HIFIGUY]

Originally posted by CTID56092
According to BBC Newsnight tonight the investigation is concentrating on home-grown domestic terrorists. Not Al Quida

They think it was a small group/lone bomber (all bombs placed on trains @ King's Cross). Bomber(s) are either UK-born or have spent time here. All just 'unamed sources' but Newsnight is usually very good on defence issues.

c.20 mins into the latest 'programme' (not sure how long this link lasts)

news.bbc.co.uk...

.

This is what started the thread - home grown bombers. This was the evening of 7/7, turned out to be correct! Home-grown was never used on this thread relating to the explosive

BTW all they're saying is 'less than 10lb' - ie they know what 10lb of C4 does to a bus etc.