NEWS: Series of Explosions Rock London 07/07

Originally posted by dubiousone
dh -

Don't misunderstand me. I am not saying that this was an act of Musilin or Al Qaida terrorism. You may well be correct in your assessment.

OK - I accept a large measure of your statement - just not an association with the London bombings

We have to keep the story straight on that

The Role Of Stupidity On ATS

Originally posted by dh
I'll reiterate this as long as stupid people come along and suggest the work of the mythical al-Qaeda

Only stupid people agree with those who call them stupid.

Only stupid people assume that everyone who disagrees with them is stupid.

Only stupid arguments need to be defended by claims that those who disagree with them are stupid.

The pattern is clear: stupid is as stupid does, and stupidity begets stupidity.

If you are looking for the agreement of people who are not stupid, you will not earn it this way.

I recommend bolstering your arguments with facts instead of discrediting them with insults.

[
Only stupid people agree with those who call them stupid.

Only stupid people assume that everyone who disagrees with them is stupid.

Only stupid arguments need to be defended by claims that those who disagree with them are stupid.

The pattern is clear: stupid is as stupid does, and stupidity begets stupidity.

If you are looking for the agreement of people who are not stupid, you will not earn it this way.

I recommend bolstering your arguments with facts instead of discrediting them with insults.

They're only stupid in the sense they've been stupified
It's not a question of intelligence, rather a question of whether you accept the main media as proof, whether you accept that little implanted mantra in your head - al-Qaeda/muslim terrorists - or whether you deny it
It's not a work of genius
It's just seeing what is, and what it's all about

Originally posted by dh

We have two pieces of evidence to support the idea that the bombings were committed by agents of the security services, both mentioned before

The warning to Netanyahu not to attend his meeting given before the bombs went off

The deployment of 1000 personnel employed by a security consultancy agency to an exercise on 7/7 at the exact time and with bombs exactly 'hypothesised' at the exact locations where they exploded

Both conclusive evidence of foreknowledge in my mind, and at the very least enough to transform a theory into a strong possibility

I'm constantly astounded at the perpetual bleating about al-Qaeda and Muslim fundamentalists here. That's why I've been giving the anti-mantra

Anyone who has studied 9/11 in any detail will have recognised the forces behind the 7/7 attacks the instant they caught them off the telly

It took me about 3 nanoseconds to know who was behind it , and the same is true for thousands of others
It's not about 'pet theories' it's about recognising and understanding the form

And yet people jump in and give it with the now essentially racist 'Arab terrorist' crapola

Amazing - it's complete blindness to the way the world is, its self-denial and submission and surrender to the controlling forces

What's wrong with you people, you like being taken for complete buffoons?

BTW, Ozzy, to the best of my knowledge, the only rock star to have performed personally for Bush and unsurprisingly (though Bono may well have bent over forwards for him, so to speak). His thoughts have, therefore, zero credibility

''The deployment of 1000 personnel employed by a security consultancy agency to an exercise on 7/7 at the exact time and with bombs exactly 'hypothesised' at the exact locations where they exploded''


Correct! take note, as i saw it said early that day on tv by one of the people that had been on the exercise! (he was interviewed, but then was quickly moved off)

I have seen they wont mention it on tv, past the bit i saw briefly early that day...




[edit on 10-7-2005 by ThePunisher]

Conspiracy theories are one thing. Paranoid delusions are another. Lies are in a category all their own and are completely reprehensible. Most of what passes for theories here are just lies and damned lies, at that.

Personally I don't trust the CIA & I am willing to say that there might even be some small Rogue Factions with-in the U.S. Government - but I am not going to Denounce the WHOLE Entire U.S. Government!

Generally I believe that most Public Officials are good people at Heart & are in-fact trying to protect us (even though they have to deal with Red Tape Burocratic Nonsense) - Terrorist Cells are being broken up & Plots Dismantled all of the time!

I have *NO DOUBT* that Attacks on Civilians like on 9/11 & Madrid & London are acts of TERRORISM. These Terrorists have no Real Ideology. They only seek to Kill & Terrorize. If they have Legitimate Complaints of Corruption against Governments - then they should handle these Problems *Politically* - Not with Violence!

dh - do you live in the UK? Are you a British Citizen? How can you blame your own Government for these actions? For God's sake what about their Humanity? Don't you think that they have a Conscious? Do you honestly think that they would stoop to such a level - for what purpose? You obviously don't have any Confidence or Trust in your own Government - do you Pay Taxes at all?

dh - how would YOU deal with Terrorism if you were a Government Official?

dh - I believe that you are a TROLL & a Dis-Information Artist - why don't you Log Off & get a Life!



[edit on 10-7-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
dh - how would YOU deal with Terrorism if you were a Government Official?

I hope you don't mind if I answer this.

Modern Terrorism is a symptom of a much larger disease - that disease is the ignorance, poverty and fear which has taken over children throughout places such as Africa and the Middle East. For example, these so called “Muslim Leaders” who wish to bring acts of terror throughout Iraq wait till after an American bombing and pick those children who have lost their parents, family members or any friends - but make sure they are at a young age. They lie to them about the actions of people like Saddam and push American into the light of being the “bad guy” these children then know no better. So who do they believe? The guy who feeds them, clothes them and educated them or Uncle Sam who killed their parents?

Then you have the next lot, the poor terrorist. These are just as ignorant of the truth as the one above but these so called “leaders” now pick from someone in Africa, etc, who has no chance of a good life they then agree and make a deal. If they “bomb” one place, they will fund their education or in some cases their family for the rest of their life. To some people, that’s worth their own life - to make sure their brothers and sisters can get the education they need to leave Africa.

Now the only way we will do this is once in some respects we “Westernise” places like Africa and the Middle East. We allow them to gain their own information and learn why wars were started - remove the awful trade sanctions, debt, etc, and allow them to make their own destiny because until then they will be easily taken advantage of. All these terrorists are, are by products of their environment - yes crime still happens when you can make your own destiny but it sure helps it go down when you can and this is what needs to be done. While there is a massive un-equal distribution of wealth in these areas we will have terrorists, while we kill innocent people and label them as “collateral” damage, we will have terrorists and while the Western World makes itself out to be the “best” way for a Society to live, while torturing people, lying to their people, etc, we will still have domestic terrorists.

Quote: "Modern Terrorism is a symptom of a much larger disease - that disease is the ignorance, poverty and fear which has taken over children throughout places such as Africa and the Middle East.

Now the only way we will do this is once in some respects we “Westernize” places like Africa and the Middle East. We allow them to gain their own information... allow them to make their own destiny because until then they will be easily taken advantage of. All these terrorists are by products of their environment - yes crime still happens when you can make your own destiny but it sure helps it go down when you can and this is what needs to be done.

While there is a massive un-equal distribution of wealth in these areas we will have terrorists, while we kill innocent people and label them as “collateral” damage, we will have terrorists and while the Western World makes itself out to be the “best” way for a Society to live, while torturing people, while lying to their people, etc, we will still have domestic terrorists."



Yes - I Agree with you! Congratulations on your well thought out statement in your post - it was refreshing! So you agree that Democracy is a Better system than the Murderous Thuggery that has been going on in the Middle East for God knows how long now - that is why they find the concept of Democracy so Dangerous! I think that many in the Middle East are starting to get the Idea now & Entrenched Corrupt Regimes like those it Syria, Saudi Arabia & Iran find this Threatening!


[edit on 10-7-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 10-7-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

Originally posted by Odium

Modern Terrorism is a symptom of a much larger disease - that disease is the ignorance, poverty and fear [...]
If they “bomb” one place, they will fund their education or in some cases their family for the rest of their life. To some people, that’s worth their own life - to make sure their brothers and sisters can get the education they need to leave Africa.
[...]
Now the only way we will do this is once in some respects we “Westernise” places like Africa and the Middle East.

(With apologies for the truncated quote).

Hmm,
The White Man's Burden.

With respect, but was it not this line of thought that rather got the west into this in the first place.

I understand the point you were making, but is not the key to strive to provide opportunity to "Africanise" and "Middle Easternise" these regions, rather than try to impose "Western" values? Market forces would do the rest and you'd have a functioning democratic trading system of some sort in due course.

Does not the British Empire's experience in India provide a historical precedent?


Edit: There is some interesting reading on the history of the British in India which has some interesting parallels. A good summary is here.

[edit on 10-7-2005 by 0951]

By Westernise I mean our so called ability to make our own destiny, protest, etc, that sort of thing and I don't mean push it through with force just that once they can pick what news they watch, what school their kids go to, etc, then it will help the whole problem a lot.

And yes, Seraphim_Serpente, I am a fan of democracy although not the version we have in Britain, etc, at the present moment but think we all need to have the ability to pick and make our Government/Laws as long as they best suit the majority - with of course small exceptions.

[edit on 10/7/2005 by Odium]

Originally posted by Odium
By Westernise I mean our so called ability to make our own destiny, protest, etc, that sort of thing and I don't mean push it through with force just that once they can pick what news they watch, what school their kids go to, etc, then it will help the whole problem a lot.
[edit on 10/7/2005 by Odium]

Thanks, I had thought that is what you had in mind with your post, but this is a useful clarification as removes any potential for ambiguity ...

Originally posted by Koka
Apparently the balloons were all along the Edgware Road leading up to Hyde Park, the venue for Live8, there was what appeared to be Arabic writing on the baloons and some english writing that said "Goodbye London".

It may of been someone leaving to go home. The Edgware Road has a large Middle Eastern Community.

This could be highly coincidental or highly relevant.

[edit on 7-7-2005 by Koka]

I thought the balloon thing was a bit strange so I thought Id have a little search. Weird thing was, I didnt search for "Goodbye London" as I remembered wrongly and looked for "Bye Bye London". I did find this though. Bye Bye London.

They are a company that claims to be the number one guide for Arab visitors to London and one of their offices appears to be in Edgware Road - they may have been doing an ad thing.

What I do find again strange is the address for ByeBye London Ltd, on streetmap.co.uk (NW6 3QT) they appear near a Travistock Center and that had me confused a bit, I was like "Eh? I thought that was somewhere esle".

So, was it Goodbye London or Bye Bye London, 'cos like that would probably clear that bizarre baloon thing... or phone them up, ask if they did any ad thing with balloons on Sunday.

3 people have been arrested under the Terrorism Act

They were arrested at Heathrow airport, we cannot confirm if they were leaving or entering the country.

Met Police have confirmed the arrests and they will not confirm if they are the bombers from thursday

[edit on 10-7-2005 by infinite]

Originally posted by Dae
So, was it Goodbye London or Bye Bye London, 'cos like that would probably clear that bizarre baloon thing... or phone them up, ask if they did any ad thing with balloons on Sunday.

Good find, I will look into it a little more when I have a little more time.

As far as I was told, it was an advert for a play and it said "Bye Bye London".

"pure speculation" to link arrests and london attack. the arrests took place this morning at Heathrow this morning

heres a link to the the 3 arrests in London


www.sky.com...

Three men have been arrested at Heathrow Airport under anti-terrorism laws - but police say it is "inappropriate" to link them with the London bombings.


Metropolitan Police Deputy Assistant Commissioner Brian Paddick told Sky News the arrests were "reasonably routine".

nice one asala

There is probably a 50% chance this is related, but we wont find out for a very long time.

What we need to know is if they are "leaveing" or "entering" the country. That'll help us make our judgements clearly, however I couldn't find it from the article.

Originally posted by Odium
What we need to know is if they are "leaveing" or "entering" the country. That'll help us make our judgements clearly, however I couldn't find it from the article.

if you want me to give my view, ill say leaving because they need to have good intelligence to arrest someone coming into the country.

Originally posted by infinite
if you want me to give my view, ill say leaving because they need to have good intelligence to arrest someone coming into the country.

You mean like the unprecedented sharing of terrorism information from across Europe and the United States? Isnt there enough speculation floating about already?