a good point that could point all crop circles in the direction of a hoax...

Originally posted by mpeake

Originally posted by Dulcimer
ShadowHasNoSource made another good point.

when crop circles have interlaced or woven crop, the skeptics go quite. id like to see some skeptics explain the interlaced crop.

obviously a simple board and string method will not produce the result.

What proof do you have that says the rope and board method cannot create an interlacing crop pattern? Just picturing the method in my head makes perfect sense on how it could be done.

If you were to stand in a tall grain field you would begin to picture how hard it would be to do. First off a single person making a circle with a board would have to stop, change direction, stop change directions over and over again while maintaining whatever symmetry or shape they are making, slowly weaving out a pattern.

Boards do not explain stems that seem to be bent over perfectly without damage, almost steamed into place. Bend over a grown wheat plant and try recreate some.

Two or more people working on the circle could probably pull off the weaving seen in images. Again it would be hard to maintain shape when weaving the crop.

Alot of time no evidence of distubance is found on the soil (IE footprints, disturbed marks (dont you think at least something would be found, scapres from the board apparatus, foot prints something).

I think the biggest indication, and ive never seen it talked about, that could show evidence of a fake is moved stones.

Any stone in a field of crop will most likely be where it was for a long time, if the crop is tall and hasnt been distrubed (machinery). If any rock was seen out of place (it should leave a dent in the soil if its large enough) it could indicated that something disturbed it (feet, the boards) and that it could be a fake.

I never see anyone look for that though.

I cannot prove anything.

I point out another thing for the skeptics.

Irrigation lines.

Ever notice how most crop circles are near the edge of a field (easy access) or centered around at least one irrigation line?

Those are the wheel tracks you see cutting through fields, they are used to water the crops. Walking in them would allow you to get to wherever you want without disturbing the crop. They also could serve as a method of measurement because they have a constant width.

notice every crop circle image in this thread does indeed have irrigation lines.

Originally posted by Alexander Tau
Thanks Hal, be good to hear what you find.

I am not trying to pick nits here, but the level of 'proof' required for someone who claims to have hoaxed something is quite often very low. So just as we look hard at the claims of people with pictures or stories I think we should do the same in the reverse direction.

I was able to get a little more info on the clip I posted earlier. The video known as “The Oliver’s Castle Video, and was released on the 11th of August 1996, by John Wheyleigh. The video, which shows balls of light flying over a field where a snowflake crop circle appeared, created quite a stir at the time, but soon many became skeptical. At first John wanted to remain anonymous, but was tracked down later and found he worked at a video studio, and also admitted later he was the one who filmed it and that the video was a hoax. There is a lot of technical analysis available along with the story of how they tracked him down at these sites.

Crop Circle Research
The Oliver’s Castle Video Debate

I had no idea the video caused so much controversy at the time. I still say some CC’s are real, but not this one. Still we learn from mistakes as much as we learn from accomplishments.

Originally posted by Hal9000
I had no idea the video caused so much controversy at the time. I still say some CC’s are real, but not this one. Still we learn from mistakes as much as we learn from accomplishments.

I also have a mistake.
Earlier I had posted some photos of swirled centers of Crop Circles. I had believed that that was evidence of an authentic CC.

As it turns out these swirls are found in man made circles.

www.korncirkler.dk...

A team of hoaxers were caught making these at night and had to flee, leaving two partially completed crop circles.

Here is one of the swirls found in the man-made CC.

I'd encourage ya'll to look at
www.bltresearch.com...

These people are severely on top of their game with accurately researching and getting scientists involved.

I've been in a genuine formation before, and observed many of the anomalies such as weaving of layers, and bent (not broken) stalks. There was also a slight static cling to the area inside the formation. I dont see any way possible to have weaved this pattern by a human hand. I dont mean the shape itself, but the top layer laid right, the next layer down left, the next layer down right....and you could lift the layers like carpet. Not to mention it was not laid at ground level, but the fused and bent stalks were about 12 inches off the ground...not flat to it.
Friggin ponderous.

Fine work Hal.

From the first link:

However, the animation bit (where the crop circle actually appears) seems to be non-interlaced, only consisting of a single field. This then reverts back to interlaced at the end of the sequence.

That is what I mean by solid evidence, if true then we have a hoax. But 'seems to be' is not good enough, the eye makes mistakes. Tracking down the person involved has to be the real vital factor here. Someone with the tools makes the conclusion of fake a good bet.


The picture from the link below is also pretty good, real circles do not have such errors.
cropcircleconnector.com...


A.T
(-)


[edit on 7/8/05 by Alexander Tau]

Originally posted by Dulcimer


If you were to stand in a tall grain field you would begin to picture how hard it would be to do. First off a single person making a circle with a board would have to stop, change direction, stop change directions over and over again while maintaining whatever symmetry or shape they are making, slowly weaving out a pattern.

Notice you can even see in the CC's on this thread that the radius of the circles are laid down first , then the patterns start.

The Weaving your talking about is called cross-hatching in art class in High school, most sketchers use it.

Boards do not explain stems that seem to be bent over perfectly without damage, almost steamed into place. Bend over a grown wheat plant and try recreate some.

Simple its the same principle that , you can easily break a twig with your hands, but you can't break a handful of them .

The question can also lead to the exact opposite conclusion: if there is no point, then why would people make the circles? You would need at least a secret society with lots of free time and a real obsession to explain all the circles that appear, the number, the distribution, the complexity, etc. Or some space or air-based technology.

Here is my latest theory:

It could be time travellers. Part of some protocol to be able to return to the same place by means of signatures. Why biodegradable? To mark an interval in time. Why slightly irrelevant? Not to scare the natives. Why England? Because England is geologically stable, and would be expected to remain more or less in the same place. Why on the ground? To be seen from the air, of course: time travelling machines would be airborne to avoid ground clutter.

Originally posted by StarBreather
The question can also lead to the exact opposite conclusion: if there is no point, then why would people make the circles? You would need at least a secret society with lots of free time and a real obsession to explain all the circles that appear, the number, the distribution, the complexity, etc. Or some space or air-based technology.

I was thinking more along the lines of College Students.

Originally posted by lost_shaman

Originally posted by Dulcimer


If you were to stand in a tall grain field you would begin to picture how hard it would be to do. First off a single person making a circle with a board would have to stop, change direction, stop change directions over and over again while maintaining whatever symmetry or shape they are making, slowly weaving out a pattern.

Notice you can even see in the CC's on this thread that the radius of the circles are laid down first , then the patterns start.

The Weaving your talking about is called cross-hatching in art class in High school, most sketchers use it.

Boards do not explain stems that seem to be bent over perfectly without damage, almost steamed into place. Bend over a grown wheat plant and try recreate some.

Simple its the same principle that , you can easily break a twig with your hands, but you can't break a handful of them .

Youre missing the mark of "bent" on this. The stalks are not bent as you'd think, but rather curved at a particular angle. Often then not, in the formation I was in, the stalks were bent at a consistent angle. This bend could not be done by hand...no way possible. Hell for that matter, you couldnt bend them back straight either.

Crosshatching/weaving are 2 different things...especially in application to this. I'd pay good money to see someone weave layer after layer, by hand, board and rope, or otherwise. What constitutes legitimate formations is like comparing a chocolate pirate coin to a real one.

The wheat, rye, whatever inside a formation is changed on a biological/molecular level, has been altered so quickly as to cause slight burning in some cases.

Try looking at seeds collected from plants within a formation. If a circle happens prior to anthesis, the development of the seed is stopped or impaired...control samples outside the formation are normal...try doing that with a board and a rope.

What about the magnetic material melted onto soil samples collected inside legitimate crop formations? Gonne get college kids with boards and rope for that?

There is SO much data that this isnt something Doug and Dave cooked up at the pub, but rather something very unusual.

Plenty of hoaxed "art", but more legitimates then you'd think as well.

It's alot more then neato formations in a field.

i'd also like the skeptics to explain the "exploded nodes" phenomenon, in relation to hoaxed crop circles.

i haven't heard any mention or explanation of this yet.

Has anyone thought that maybe these aliens didnt come from miles away to create the circles. I tend to believe their is a race of some kind living in a pararell universe right here on earth. I think they too feel alone however they have opened the cosmic door just slightly. They know there is something out there and making these signs is all they are capable of in trying to get our attention. I think we would have deciphered crop circles if it was not for the jokers who decided to make their own which in turn turned the whole subject into a joke. Sometimes i wonder if these wonderful human circle makers are employed by the goverment in a misinformation exercise.

Or is that me being paranoid???

It pays to be paranoid i think!!!!!!!!!!!

Non exploding nodes have also been observed in documented man made circles.

It usaully happens in Wiltshire south of England, why? They have military bases there for a start and stone hendge. It could be electrical or magnetic, if aliens wanted to make contact they could go straight to a military base. Could be angelic, they are within or above the air in some weired dimention. Circles as such have occult influences so maybe people are openning doors to these spirits into our realm, could all be closes than we think.