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JJ's Story

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posted on Oct, 11 2005 @ 12:40 PM
Hi LoneGunMan,
So how DID you come to believe in so many gods?

posted on Oct, 11 2005 @ 03:38 PM
That's really cool, just me 2! Was there an immediate turning point, where you recognized that God is personal, and not just a universal entity, or was it a gradual revelation through your experiences of praying for others?

posted on Oct, 11 2005 @ 05:05 PM
Hi JJ,
Thank you for the "U2U"! I tried to reply back but after writing a really long message, I clicked "send" and it said that I had to have at least 20 posts to be able to send messages to anyone exept the admins. :-(
My reply to you got deleted!!! :-(

Anyways, to answer your question, it was a slow revelation. Every time I prayed about something, I would get almost an immediate (within 24 hours or less) answer.
Here is one example:
I don’t get a chance to read the newspaper very often, but God made sure that I read this one!
One day, just as I was due to get off work Gary called. I put him on “park” so I could pick his call up on another phone and talk to him without any interruptions. The showroom was pretty busy so I went to the only phone that was available. As I was talking to him, I noticed a headline on the newspaper on the desk I just happened to be standing in front of. “House of Representative Member Walks Out on Prayer.” After I hung up the phone, I read the whole article, which stated that two of the members of the House of Representatives walked out of the session because they opened in prayer “in the name of Allah, the God of Moses, Abraham, Jesus, and Muhammad.” I was SHOCKED!! I went around the dealership and showed it to a few of my Christian friends. They all had different opinions about it, but no one seemed as concerned as I was. Feeling frustrated, I had to talk to other Christians right away!
Then I had an idea! I drove down the street to “Evangel,” where I was sure that the employees there would be Christian and would have a strong opinion. The clerk told me that the name “Allah” is just another name for God. My argument was that if that was one of His names, then shouldn’t it be in the Bible somewhere??? And what about Muhammad? His name is not mentioned in the Bible either. She wasn’t much help! At that point, I knew in my heart that something just wasn’t right, so I got into my car and prayed.
“Dear Heavenly Father, I know that YOU are the one and only God and not this “Allah.” You and he are not the same God! If I am right, please play “It Is You,” by the Newsboys before I get home today.” In Jesus Name I pray, Amen.

You know what? That was the VERY NEXT SONG!!!!!! My heart was elated!!! “YES, YES!” I shouted out loud. (And yes, I cried yet again because I had heard the voice of God--MY GOD!) The song after that was “Awesome God” to which I happily sang along!

I am writing a book about all of my experiences with God so that other Christians who are like I used to be would realize that He really does "talk" to you if you know how to listen for His Voice.

posted on Oct, 13 2005 @ 02:12 PM
I don't think we have permission to condemn those who are investigating other beliefs such as paganism because they haven't been enlightened yet. Same with people in churches or denominations we don't agree with. Only our Father in Heaven knows and He prohibits us from judging one another.
I had a bad start in religion, as a child I was involved with a school friend's extremist fundamentalist home-made church and left after a traumatic event swearing off religion for all time. When I was 17 I saw some literature my father had and asked to read it. He cautioned me not to take it too seriously. I believed what I read so I read some more, and even more. All the time believing but trying to find some way to reject it. Finally after over 40 years of running, I was baptized and I am a believer.
I don't judge anyone because I was there once. Anything I see that I think is "bad" or "wrong" in another, I can find in myself. There is hope for all, it is called "Judgement" not "condemnation" that we will all be resurrected to face.

posted on Oct, 13 2005 @ 05:58 PM
Where did you read that I was condemning anyone?

As for judging:
Matthew 7:1-2 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

The following is an excerpt from a daily devotional written by Brent Riggs at

"The Bible does NOT say "don't ever judge". It says "don't judge in a way that will bring judgment on you". If you judge unfairly or hypocritically, then you will be judged the same way. We are to CONSTANTLY judge things against God's Word and pronounce things wrong where the Bible declares it wrong, and good where the Bible judges as good. But we are to only judge by God's Word. When we judge by OUR OWN standard, then we are inviting God's judgment on ourselves.

Using the "don't judge" hammer is one of the favorite techniques of people today. Do not be intimidated by it anymore; however, you need to be able to accurately correct them with the Truth of what God's Word says."

posted on Dec, 5 2005 @ 08:00 PM
i'd like to tell you all about my conversion to Buddhism from Christianity.

i had enrolled in a Catholic prepatory school, a prestigous academic institution in my eyes no matter what religion i may become, and was incredibly excited about discussing religion in an intellectually stimulating theology class. the bible had always interested me, and i read it quite frequently. however, the religious classes i had before were far from intellectual, and this lead me further into my readings of the bible. i ended up with an amazing teacher, and learned alot about my faith, however, something started to feel off, out of place. i thought this was merely the weakness of humanity at first, and soldiered on with my faith.

the summer after my freshman year i took a trip to Rocky Mountain National Park as part of an elective class. one day, while we were quietly hiking, i began meditating, though it was something completely involuntary. i was in this silent, contemplative state for 2 hours. i've always been the smart hyperactive outspoken type, so it worried my teacher. he asked if everything was okay, and i said everything was more than alright. while in my thought process i realized the flaws inherent in Christianity and after much more thought i became agnostic. during this period i looked at every religion i could think of, and in the process discovered even more.

what i finally decided on were a set of parameters for a 'true' religion

1) no motivation by fear (of either the unknown or punishment)
2) no religions that suppress the questioning of beliefs as a lack of faith
3) a religion devoid of a central religious text
4) a religion which did not outline the same path for all

i had found that religion in Theravada Buddhism, there was no eternal damnation because you had an infinite number of chances to better yourself. there was no central religious text to imprint specific messages to all followers, and the only "path"was there to guide you towards your own goal. if i expressed my disdain for the beliefs at any time, the religion would allow me to leave without damning me.

i had found something that filled my desire to have a more personal relationship with my spirituality. my religious trek lasted about 2 years, and now i feel more at peace than ever before.

i thought that some might find this an interesting way to get into the head of someone who went in the opposite direction.

posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 03:43 AM

Originally posted by Amuk
I have recently returned to the fold. My wife of 25 years, who has the patience of a saint, has cured me of my evil heathen ways. She explained to me after a recent NDE that we would not be together in Heaven unless I did.

Its not as noble as the rest of yalls battle with Satan, but I couldn't stand the thought of being separated from her for eternity.

Maybe not noble, but such a simply expressed motivation of pure love speaks volumes about who God is and what He has given us, by giving us each other and a bit of His heart to each of us for the purpose of sharing...

Until the time comes when we can personally return it.

I truly think that God gives us matrimonial type love as an express lead-in to His type of love. When it's truly of devotion and unity it is the only thing that can give us a hint of what is to come, IMO. If I had one wish, I'd wish that every single soul could experience such a thing....maybe they will....I do hope that very thing quite often. I'm glad to know you have been blessed like that, thanks for sharing.

posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 04:16 AM
I do apologize for this being so long...but this is my testimony and my witness of what God has done to help me:

This is what God has done for me… About 5 years into the relationship, I got pregnant. When I gave word to my fiancé, he was not happy. He wanted me to have an abortion and made me call clinics to set up appointments. My heart was trouble for I did not want to go through that. But went praying for a way out. Before and during this time of trouble, I read my bible to look for words of guidance to help me. And I took that scripture when Jesus said, “Verily, verily I say unto you, he that believeth on me, the works that I do, the same shall he do, and greater works then these shall he do, because I go unto my father. And whatsoever ye ask in my name, that will I do, that the father might be glorified by the son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.”

We arrived at one clinic and death was the feeling I felt there. The women there had no smiles, their men the same way. The door opened and a young woman walked out with a lollipop in her mouth as what they gave them when it was all over. I was sore distressed. My name was called and they told me to go fill up the cup. I prayed in that bathroom for the Lord to help me. I was asked to go to a room where they check to see how old the babe is. I lay down on the doctor’s bench or shall I say bench of death. The lady talking with me put this jell on my belly and used ultrasound to search for the babe. As she moved the insturment around she kept making a funny face like she couldn’t find it. She found the “fetus” (as what they call them) eventually and said, you need to come back in the 7th week cause it is the size of a grain of rice about 5 weeks old.

My fiancé, wanted me still to come back in the 7th week. A few days after that mess, I went for an appointment to seek prenatal care. While there I saw all the little babies and how happy their mother’s and father’s were. I felt love and happiness there. My name was called and I went in for an ultrasound. The result was this, I was 11 weeks pregnant and I saw the babe’s heart beating. I wanted to cry. I got my two pictures and headed back home. That grain of rice was actually 3 inches long.

We went again to the death clinic on the date given us but my mind was not there but on the picture of the child. This time, I remember seeing only me and him there and the receptionist at the window, no one else. As if it was a holiday. She took us in a room to look at the procedure of what I would go through. I was not paying attention. After that, she took me by myself and she knew I didn’t want to be there and told my fiancé, the technicians are not in today and you would have to come back another day. He was furious when we left. Maybe the receptionist was an angel.

There was one more time to go back. This time, I was not going. I prayed, Lord I’m ready. I was given advice to call some shelters and called one by one and nothing. Till I called a place, which said they were out of beds, but I said, someone wants me to have an abortion. Then she said, oh no, we will find a bed for you. She gave me the address and I took 3 days worth of clothes for my journey and left a letter with the extra picture of the babe that I got from the hospital.

Once I reached my destination, I knocked on the door and was greeted to come in. I had sat down and looked with my teary eyes to the left and saw bibles and literature. This was a “Christ” based shelter. The lady in charge was not there yet but I waited patiently for her arrival. When she got there, we sat and discussed the situation. Dinner was being prepared and she told me to make myself at home. There were other women there, with children and without. They were very nice to me and some had even more sad stories than mine.

During my stay there, I began to notice something was wrong. Not with the women who were homeless and had problems, but with the speakers. It first started, when a man with two women, one his wife, came to the house where we were and had us sit down to watch a program. One about teenagers coming to know Jesus and one about John Hagee and his method on how the kingdom of God was going to come. I watched and was into it but had my doubts. After the program was over, they started talking about Benny Hinn. How he touches people in the name of Jesus and are cured of their problems. And how they too did the same thing and had to remind people to give praise to God and not them. I’ve always had a bad feeling about that guy and others like him.

I proceeded to ask for prayer from them, I suppose cause I was still upset. But the way they did it was odd. The old man got behind me, his wife in front of me and the other lady on my left standing next to the wife. Then she started speaking some strange murmuring. The wife put her hand on my head. I felt a strong presence of something in the spirit and she tried to push me backwards but I did not go back into the man’s arms like the deceivers on T.V. show. For in my mind I was saying this isn’t happening and I played it off as if something happened in their eyes. The woman on the left said I was going to meet an evangelist (I never did). Then the man brought me to the couch and said, She’ll be out for a while. I stayed seated and once they left, I went to the bathroom and prayed.

The following Sunday, a woman came to pick some of us up so we could attend her church. When we got to the church, I found out that she was the wife of the preacher there. The first event that took place was music being played. Nice perky music that would get anyone going in the morning. I even sang and clapped my hands. When it was time for prayer, I felt this strong presence like the first time and it stayed with me for a while. It was warm and comforting at first and I wasn’t sure if it was true. The members of the church were saying come Jesus, come. It was time for the preacher to preach. When he finished, more praying. Again, something was wrong. The preacher starting uttering some strange speech, and so did his wife. That warm comforting presence tried to come upon me again but could not. There was a bench where a woman started wailing in tears, the preacher started crying too and fell down on his knees. Then, I was reminded, that Satan himself is changed into the fashion of an angel of light. When it was time to leave, the preachers wife came up to me and said, How do you like our Pentecostal church? I remember her siting behind me on another isle, so she must have targeted me cause I was singing more than the others who were with me.

On another day, in the morning time, more speakers came, this time it was two women. I had a strange feeling about them too. As if they were hiding something. But I sat down to listen to their story. One of the women was the Director of the shelter. She proceeded to talk about a story and after it was done, she started crying. All I wanted was someone to pray with me so I asked them to pray with me. I was sitting down this time. The same thing happened liked when the three older people came. Her and the other woman started babbling. I played along again. After that I knew they were not from God.

Another time, in the night, while resting on my bunk and thinking of the mess I was in, one of the homeless women told me to come downstairs with her to hear this lady speak. I agreed to go down. When I got there this woman was talking to some younger ladies in their teens. Then she proceeded to talk to the older women there, the ones who watched over us in the night. One of the women had problems with her back and asked the woman to pray for her to get healed. She did but the way she did it was odd. She stood up, got some olive oil, put it in the palm of her hand, and rubbed it on the lady’s forehead. Then started to rub the lady’s back and saying Jesus, Jesus. When that was done, she saw me, I was still upset about my situation and was crying. She sat down next to me and told me that I was artistic, and was going to write a novel some day. I told her that I wanted to get married to my fiancé. Then the bomb dropped. She said, He’s not for you. I started crying a bit more. It was time for us all to go to bed but I went to the bathroom to pray. I asked God to see me through all this and to help me with my problem. I did not accept what that woman told me. For that night I recalled her saying to some other woman that she had left her husband.

Now, I remember in scripture when Jesus said, "Not all they that say unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter in to the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth my fathers will which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not in thy name Prophesied? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name have done many miracles? And then will I knowledge unto them that I never knew them. Depart from me, ye workers of iniquity."

I was getting tired of these speakers and wanted to leave. So I packed my things the next day and left.

When I got back home, things started getting better. We moved to a new place and finally got married. Before the baby came, I prayed the Lord for our baby to be born strong and healthy and gave him to the Lord. When time was come to deliver, I prayed for it to be quick for I did not want to go through a lot of pain as a lot of women go through and the doctor told me in amazement out of 9 women that day mine was the fastest. And our babe was born strong and healthy.

I have prayed too, for an unhardening of my husbands heart toward God and Christ and I’m now beginning to see this when we talk about certain things. We get along very well now and I believe he is for me. If he wasn’t for me, then why did things work out the way they did?

Thank you God my father, thank you Jesus, son of the most hight God for helping me through all that mess and for being there for me each day. And teaching me patience so I can get along with others.

Also, this was shared with me while I was at the place where I stayed by a woman more worthy than the rest: "The thief comes not but for to steal, kill and destroy. I am come that they might have life, and have it more abundantly."

(At the end of my testimony place this): “The spirit speaketh evidently that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, and shall give heed unto spirits of error, and devilish doctrine of them which speak false through hypocrisy, and have their consciences marked with an hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats which God hath created to be received with giving thanks, of them which believe and know the truth. For all the creatures of God are good and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving. For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. If thou shalt put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesu Christ, which hast been nourished up in the words of the faith and good doctrine which doctrine thou hast continually followed. But cast away unghostly and old wives fables.” Found in 1 Timothy 4

“If the truth of Christ be in me, this rejoicing shall not be taken from me in the regions of Achaia. Wherefore? Because I love you not? God knoweth. Nevertheless what I do, that will I do, to cut away occasion from them which desire occasion, that they might be found like unto us in that wherein they rejoice. For these false apostles are deceitful workers, and fashion them selves like unto the Apostles of Christ. And no marvel, for Satan himself is changed into the fashion of an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing, though his ministers fashion them selves as though they were the ministers of righteousness: whose end shall be according to their deeds.” Found in 2 Corinthians 11

“Ye beloved, believe not every spirit but prove the spirits whether they are of God or not, for many false Prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby shall ye know the spirit of God. Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, is of God. And every spirit which confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, is not of God. And this is that spirit of Antichrist, of whom ye have heard, how that he should come: and even now already is he in the world.

Little children, ye are of God and have overcome them: for greater is he that is in you, then he that is in the world. They are of the world, and therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. We are of God. He that knoweth God, heareth us: he that is not of God, heareth us not. Hereby know we the spirit of verity, and the spirit of error.

Beloved, let us love one another: for love cometh of God. And every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not, knoweth not God: for God is love. In this appeared the love of God to us ward, because that God sent his only begotten son into the world, that we might live through him. Herein is love, not that we loved God but that he loved us, and sent his son to make agreement for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfect in us. Hereby know we: that we dwell in him, and he in us: because he hath given us of his spirit. And we have seen and do testify that the father sent the son, which is the saviour of the world. Whosoever confesseth that Jesus is the son of God, in him dwelleth God, and he in God. And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us.

God is love, and he that dwelleth in love, dwelleth in God, and God in him. Herein is the love perfect in us, that we should have trust in the day of judgment: For as he is, even so are we in this world. There is no fear in love, but perfect love casteth out all fear, for fear hath painfulness. He that feareth, is not perfect in love.

We love him, for he loved us first. If a man say, I love God, and yet hate his brother he is a liar. For how can he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, love God whom he hath not seen? And this commandment have we of him: that he which loveth God, should love his brother also.” John 4

“Judge not, that ye be not judged. For as ye judge so shall ye be judged. And with what measure ye *mete, with the same shall it be measured to you again. Why seest thou a *mote in thy brothers eye, and perceivest not the beam in thine own eye? Or why sayest thou to thy brother: suffer me to pluck out the mote out of thine eye, and behold a beam is in thine own eye. Hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pluck out the mote out of thy brothers eye. *mete: what ever is used to measure, *mote: a speck

Give not that which is holy, to dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they tread them under their feet, and the other turn again and all to rent you.

Ask and it shall be given you. Seek and ye shall find. Knock and it shall be opened unto you. For whosoever asketh receiveth, and he that seeketh findeth and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. Is there any man among you which if his son asked him bread, would offer him a stone? Or if he asked fish, would he proffer him a serpent? If ye then which are evil, can give to your children good gifts how much more shall your father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

Therefore whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, even so do ye to them. This is the law and the Prophets.

Enter in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction: and many there be which go in thereat. But strait is the gate, and narrow is the way which leadeth unto life: and few there be that find it. Beware of false Prophets, which come to you in sheeps clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns? Or figs of briars? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit. But a corrupt tree, bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth bad fruite: nor yet a bad tree can bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit, shall be hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Not all they that say unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter in to the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth my fathers will which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not in thy name Prophesied? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name have done many miracles? And then will I knowledge unto them that I never knew them. Depart from me, ye workers of iniquity.

Whosoever heareth of me these sayings and doeth the same, I will liken him unto a wise man which built his house on a rock: and abundance of rain descended, and the floods came and the winds blew and beat upon that same house, and it fell not, because it was grounded on the rock. And whosoever heareth of me these sayings and doth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man which built his house upon the land: and abundance of rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat upon that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it. And it came to pass, that when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were *astonied at his doctrine. For he taught them as one having power, and not as the scribes. *astonied: astounded, astonished.” Found in Matthew 7

my testimony is here also.

God Bless

posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 02:52 PM
I thought myself to be saved once, but I kept falling in and out. I was trying my best to change my life, but being in the college environment isn't the easiest place to do it. In my ealier years of college, I wasnt out of control, but definately wasnt in control of myself. I dont go to church too much here at school, I dont know why. But I still feel a divine presence in my life. I havent stopped believing, but for some reason practicing Christianity almost completely, other than saying the occasional prayer before a test, lol.
Before I came to college, I used to work with a guy at my summer job, who used to try and push it on me as if I had to believe whether I liked it or not. He was a nice guy and everything, but he was practicing what is called moral entrepreneurship. Which is feeling the need for everyone to believe the same as you whether you like it or not. I cant help but think that was one factor in my distancing myself from the church, I'm not making excuses or blaming anyone else, I always take responsibility for my own actions. But one thing I found about myself was I didnt need the church to go out and do charity work, or help others. Which the church was the only previous outlet for me to go out and do work like this. The church didnt make me into the person I am, it was me all along.
I have in the past year or so, begun to question the saying that God has a plan for us all. Because I feel that no one can determine my destiny but me. But at the same time I remember that God has given us freedom of choice, to make our own decisions, to believe or not to believe. It can put one in quite a quandry cant it? I dont want anyone to have a plan for me. I dont like the idea of someone already having a plan for me, I like to play it by ear because I'm a whimsical person. Can anyone explain this? Why I feel the need to question everything?

posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 03:22 PM
DearWife, thanks for the testimony! I haven't had a chance to read through all of it yet, but I'm looking forward to doing so

ludaChris, I know exactly where you're coming from on most everything you mentioned. During that time when I was trying to establish the divinity of Christ, Christianity became an intellectual endeavor to me, meaning I treated it just like science: not much life application, but a lot of information. A prayer uttered from my lips was...rare. I can't even recall praying for three years, starting one month after I discovered God. Church was out of the question, I had better things to do with my Sunday mornings...Like sleep or get stoned.

However, like you said, there was always that knock. The divine was always present, but for the most part I tried to ignore it, fearing a change to the lifestyle I had grown comfortable with.

I would like to point out something I learned about church after I started going, though. Church isn't so much doing charity, or helping others; it's establishing a base, both mentally and socially. There are times when even the best Christians stumble or even fall; with a community you're part of, though, there's always someone there to pick you up. You're also learning things about the Word that may not have occured to you to even look into. So far as I understand, there's no such thing as knowing God too well.

I also empathize with the questioning you're going through. After I had come to know Christ as divine, I still had a lot of questions about Christianity, the validity of the Bible, some doctrines, and many other things. I would take time to logically puzzle these questions out in my mind and become more frustrated with the whole religion thing. Upon coming to ATS, though, I took a different tact that has proven far more effective at answering those nagging questions. I assault them, delving into the internet finding out as many interpretations of both skeptics and believers, nay-sayers and yay-sayers, and even different interpretations among various denominations of Christianity. After doing this with a few tough questions or contradictions I had come up with or had been presented to me and finding answers every time in scripture, my confidence in my faith increased remarkably. I would not be where I am today had it not been for Above Top Secret.

On your specific question about God having a plan for us... I actually just wrote a paper for school on predestination
From everything I've discovered, scripture as a whole does not support the God controlling humanity on puppet strings idea that Calvinists and Hyper-Calvinists hold. Yet scripture does support that God has a plan for us. Before I go into this, though, I'd just like to say that this is, by no means, authoritative; this is just what I've learned through reading the Bible and reading books on this very subject. Even if it's what you want to hear, I encourage you to look into it yourself.

After Christ was resurrected, He explained to His disciples that He would be leaving, but the Holy Spirit would be coming in His place to act as a guide. God does have a plan for us. There is a purpose for which we were born, and that we are most suitable. However, we can opt out of that purpose. God Guides us to where He knows we will best perform and be most content in that performance, but doesn't force us. So He has a plan. If we reject that plan and go another way, God develops another plan for our lives on the course we decided to take it. I'd be happy to flesh that out more, if you'd like.

On your questions about questioning, the answer is easier. When Christ came back, Thomas didn't believe it was really Him. Thomas questioned. Christ did not condemn him for that, though. He told Thomas it would be better had he just believed, but, essentially, the answers are there if you do have to question. Then, Christ actually had Thomas place his fingers in Christ's wounds in answer to those questions. I, too, am a questioner, and find it very difficult to take anything on blind faith. It's a product of our personalities and life experiences, and God knows that.

Question, but do so while looking for an answer.

posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 02:58 AM
Here's my story...

I was brought up as a born again christian. My whole childhood revolved around Jesus, prayer meetings, bible school and other church events. I was happy and accepted by the church and I truly felt that I was close to "the Lord". Then one day at about the age of 15, whilst in the middle of a prayer session, when it came around the circle to be my turn to speak in tongues, something happened to me. I just couldn't speak... There was a long, uncomfortable silence as everyone in the group just stared, waiting for me to pray, but there was nothing I could do...

From that point it began to dawn on me that I had been conditioned into having a belief system that was just not for me. I began to realise that I had no idea who "I" really was. I knew that God existed, but from that point on, I felt that believing in Jesus as my saviour and devoting my whole life to that belief was a dillusion I could no longer permit myself to have...

Many incredible things have happened to me in my life since then - things that weren't just purely coincidental. The right teacher has always come along at just the right time, when I was spiritually ready to progress. I have undone most of the conditioning of my childhood and have never been happier. It's all part of God's plan though, because everything happens for a reason doesn't it?

I am in no way trying to say that christianity, or a belief in Jesus as your personal saviour is wrong. For many people in the world it is just what they need to follow a spiritual path. Just that, for myself, I no longer feel I have to believe or to disbelieve in anything. I'm open to all information, and no longer have to form opinions or judgements...

posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 06:01 PM
Well I guess I will post a memior I did for english class a while back on this subject. I could go into more detail but making it breif is the best for here.

Heaven’s Light and Hellfire
The author and psychotherapist Miraim Greenspan speaks on the "Dark Emotions" of life, depression, anxiety, fear, and dispair, but she says that these emotions have their own value and magesity. Greenspan says that "The alchemy of the dark emotions turns greif to gratitude, fear to joy, and dispair to faith". Many if not all of us can attest to this claim and show the truth in it, I know I can.
The irony in how my faith came to be is a intresting story. My love of God, my happiness, my life came to be out of something so different that they are almost parallels. My faith was not always strong nor was it always great. My greif has lead to gratitude and my dispair to faith.
Just looking at me you can tell that I am an amazing man of lean stature. I am not strong, physically, and this was part of my downfall and eventual rise to glory. I was the one who was picked on in school, I was the one who was outcast, I was alone. My early teen years were eaisly my hardest for the fact of my ridicule. I had my friends but they never understood where I was coming form in my depression. What I really wanted was not to have them understand but I wanted revenge for the people who had brought this "illness" upon me.
How does one go about revenge? I took it upon myslef to gain full control over myself. My probelem was emotional so naturally I wanted control over my emotions. My next downfall was my strength and my tolerance for pain. I solved this eaisly by running until I would colapse climbing trees only to fall out of them and inflicitng other injurys upon myself. This caused me to becoem even more so angry at thoes who mocked me because as they would hurt me I would hurt myself and the pain was twice as much. I believed I was becoming stronger, I was.
Being human I wanted more, I wanted to be the best and make others fear me. I came across something, something that was highly promising. I tried it and it gave me a great boost in my control over myself. I had stumbled across the occult. I learned how to meditate on things and gain and harness their physical power and mental. I learned what I was truly capable of. I for once had power. Nevertheless I was afraid to use it so it built up inside me like a inferno of anger and hate.
There is that common saying that "nothing is free" and that "if you make a pact with something evil it will come back" these are indeed true in my case. It is no question that I had turned away from God at this time. I had no faith in God, but I needed it. Through the course of the time I had fallen out of grace I paied for my "power" ( which I realize now is not real power) in pain. I can distinctly recall times when I would be walking and I would collapse on the ground from a shooting pain in my heart. These pains I remember well. They were like a large steak being driven through my heart and chest. This was not the only pain I felt though. Ironicly I still felt the emotional pain I was trying to rid myself of. I though I was in control and I wasn’t. All this made me do was dig deeper into the things I had befallen.
I eventually came to a point where I realized the one thing that all young people one day come to know. My intelectual devlopment at this time was proablly at its peak. My learning capacity was great. I was also at this time that I realized one day my death would come. With this came fear, fear for my soul. These thoughts on death made me realize that I had done nothing in the past year but become angry, sinful and fix none of my problems. Most of all I was not happy and this lead me to a major delima and turning point.
My problems were now worse and not fixed. I had live under this illusion for a year that I had the power to make myself great when in all actuality I had destroyed myself. I realized that all I wanted was to die happy and to know that I left no pain or suffering to anyone. In my "journey" I had encountered many standards and codes to live by. It was this fact that has made me who I am. In the course of that year I had a code of self disclipine that I had followed strictly. All I had to do was adjust it slightly. My ability to control myself that I had gained allowed me the easy formation of virtues and strong morals and values. I had a code of life now that was decent and christain. This new way of life meant I had my ultimate goal on ture happiness. I had come back to God.
Strange enough when I had realized my sin, my weakness and excepted God my pain stoped. I became happy. I no longer had my dreaded shooting pains in the chest, I no longer was drawn out by depression and greif. I had come full circle and I felt as if I had fullfilled something.
By the time another year had passed I felt ready to die. I had attoned for what I had done, forgiven thoes who had done wrong to me, left no one angry at me, and most of all I felt I had accomplished something. I was happy with my new life and I felt as if no burden would be left upon this world from my passing, I was ready to die.
God had more instore for me though. Now years after I have done things that would have seemed impossible. I am almost always happy and now I have the one thing I looked for in the beginning, strength. My greif has become gratitude and my fear faith. I have had many faith experience seince and all of which would be fit for a memior but thoes are more personal and I do not feel ready to tell the world.
My journey into the depths of sin and then to reconciliation is indeed a story of "Heaven’s light and Hell fire."

Well seince then I have become a student of theology and I am currently plannign on entering the Salesain Seminary next august. You can read about the Salesains here...

posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 06:00 PM
Yes I see what you mean, sometimes its so puzzling that it rattles my brain just thinking of the scale of it all. I guess with me right now, I'll live by the words, "I dont go to church too much, but I know that Jesus truly loves me." If you could elaborate one what you were going into a bit more, its very interesting.

posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 10:01 PM

Originally posted by Mizar

Being human I wanted more, I wanted to be the best and make others fear me. I came across something, something that was highly promising. I tried it and it gave me a great boost in my control over myself. I had stumbled across the occult. I learned how to meditate on things and gain and harness their physical power and mental. I learned what I was truly capable of. I for once had power. Nevertheless I was afraid to use it so it built up inside me like a inferno of anger and hate.

You used the occult to try and inflict fear and maybe a little pain on others? You do realize that the reason the occult did not work for you is that your intent was a negative one dont you? The occult will only work against you if your intentions are not good. Did you not read the Wican Rede? An harm none, do what thou wilt If you do good with the powers of the universe, only good will come of it.

The way the occult works is that if you put negative Karma into it, thats what you get out of it. The universe has a hard time interpriting our intentions, this is why high-magik is so complex. You should never practicing magik unless you are positive of your intentions, for the universe will grant you what you really want, even if your concious mind thinks it is what you want the super-concious mind is the one that gets what it wants.

Sounds like you wanted pay-back. Try that stuff and you will get burnt every time! Thats why so many young people dont last long in the occult, holywood taught them the wrong things about the craft, and the kids always come into it wanting some pay-back.

Pay-back is what they get too. Paid back right in the ole lap!!

posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 10:36 PM

Originally posted by just me 2
Hi LoneGunMan,
So how DID you come to believe in so many gods?

So many Gods... well not to many. I actully believe God is hard to define without giving God dual sexuality. If God made us in Gods own image than God must be both male and female. I call this the Lady and the Lord. Or the God and goddess. It is very hard to describe God from a humans POV. Is God male of female. Is God everywhere at the same time? Does God know the future? Etc.

It is very had to refer to God as him.

Now how did I get to this nature-based religion? I have spent my entire life with my own beliefs ( I thought they were just mine) involving reincarnation and the wheel of Karma. I didnt believe Karma came back on us in other lives, but comes back in our own. I had a hard time with all of the fear-based religions, but I knew there was more to man than just our physical selves. I knew my soul was present, I could feel it.

I have been a church consultant as a profesion, so I could see and here all the different feelings about religion. I could not find anything that was tolerant of other religions or beliefs, that fit my belief. I never even considered Witchcraft at the time. I had no one bit of understanding of it except that I thought they were animal sacrificing satan worshipers! I didnt want to know anything else about them.

That is until over a year ago, my wife had a phsycic reader. I always thought they were just scam artists. Well this one was different. She was/is very genuine, so my wife wanted to have me meet her. I met her and was uite surprised, she is very attractive 40 something and is very smart, with a very big heart. After getting to know her, I thought to myself this is one of the most caring people I had ever met.

She told me she was Wiccan. I didnt know what to think. She explained quite abit about it, enough that I was intrigued. So I purchased a book on Witchcraft. It was called Green Witchcraft by Ann Moura. After reading a few books about the craft, it felt like a homecoming. It was everything I had believed nearly word for word. It took a long time for the stigma that my mind had attached to it through years of disinformation about the craft.

I have never been happier or more content than what I feel about being one with nature. It is a very hard religion to follow properly. It is very hard not to harm others, a tall order that must be struggled with dailey. I wont have it any other way though. No free ticket to ride with me, I must earn it. May take many more lives, but one day I will be to my next plain of existance.

Nuff ramblings

posted on Jan, 17 2006 @ 04:39 PM
Well I became a christian at a very young age (12) that's 7 years ago, I was an absolute little # when I was younger, I used to get up to all sorts (seriouslt bad stuff) lol which Is all the more amazing that Im christian now. The things I would be up to now at 19 would be alot different, Im not perfect and still can be that little # I was, Im not an Imoral person Im a beautiful person at heart but I have ADHD where I tended to do things without thinking but I wont go into that lol.

Right so going back 7 years before I became I christian I randomly just picked up a bible of the shelf at my old mans because I was bored lol (he used to own a shop bric&brac) which was out of character for me at the time. I don't know why I did but I did none the less. Now when I started to read It I felt this drug like feeling In my body, It was euphoria, Imense feeling. I think this may have been the holy spirit and I was like
whats going on lol!

Anyway I didn't have any outside Influence before I accepted christ Into my heart and I didn't do the traditional prayer as many christians mention to accept christ, I just said to my self wow this Is what is missing from me I feel whole this (GOD's word) Is like what I know but do not know coming to light and It made perfect sense to me.

Untill you actually experiance It, It is totally unimaginable and to me It's not a faith or religion (mans worst plauge/deception) it's a fact of life, a relationship. Whenever I read the bible I would have this drug like feeling and I became quite Intelegent so to speak, I could actually concentrate on the the text and it sunk in and I could remember it which of course was thanks to the Holy Spirit. This was totaly out of charecter for me as I had ADHD which gave me severe concentration diffulculty and learning diffulculty.

Also I came to really love talking about It and I debated alot (how mad does this sound for a chavy 12 year old with ADHD) with my brother Inlaw who worked In the shop unfortunatly he really dag into me quite fierce at times, he would endlessy try to put my faith down and come out with all sorts of statements against christianity he just wouldn't stop untill he had gotten his point(s) accross and I came away from christianity. He was relentless.

Unfortunatly he succeded due to other extremly dark and sad things that happened to me at the time. My life was great before all this lol, I couldn't hack it. I conciously rejected christ as somthing inside me was ecking at me to do, It was unbearable, I had to.

Two months went past and I couldn't put christ behind me, I kept telling myself it's not real it's just mumbo jumbo, all fantasy. I couldn't no matter how I tried things just got worse and worse for me. At the time I really couldn't understand wtf was going on Inside me, I came to understand that Christ/GOD hadn't forgotten me and I knew I had done wrong turning away from christianity, and what had happened had happened for a reason. I accepted Jesus again into my heart and it was like getting better from a flu, I felt a Billion times better.

To this day Im a christian, I find out the facts for myself, my faith Is not blind, It is stronger than ever and just as Jesus did not turn away from me In those dark days at such a young age, I will never turn from him or GOD.

posted on Jan, 23 2006 @ 10:07 PM
Just wanted to say to everyone... thanks for sharing. I've really found this thread very interesting and helpful.

I've got my own testimonial scribbled out somewhere... i might put it up at some stage... but for now, just wanted to say hi! And i've enjoyed reading

posted on Apr, 9 2006 @ 08:10 AM
yeah, nice readings, much recognition.. I might tell my story someday too. Quite interesting to see that when you give Jesus your life, he really takes it.. all of it.

But anyways.. to the guy who turned from Christianity to Buddishm:
I went from Buddism to Christianity, basically.

your points, and my debuking.. just have to do this, cuz that's what christians do.. get lost sheep back to the flock.. (and not kill them, like those craaazy muslims)

1) no motivation by fear (of either the unknown or punishment)
faith starts with fearing God... sounds weird, but true... every man needs to realise he's smaller than God.. many people don't have that realisation and will have difficulty really following their belief.

2) no religions that suppress the questioning of beliefs as a lack of faith
not really sure what u mean by this.. but my view is: faith is good, religion is bad, mmkay?

3) a religion devoid of a central religious text
The word of God is the bible, Jesus is also called the word that became flesh. Really, if you look from this so called narrow perspective, you'll notice that it's really simple, namely as Jesus said it is.

4) a religion which did not outline the same path for all
Jesus is the only path to God.. all the others lead somewhere else.

I understand you see a need for this in the world... I did to, meditating over the global problems and what would be needed to solve all problems.. But we only live for like 100 years at the most.. after that comes eternity.. you have this life to make a choice.. make the right one. I believe Jesus Christ is the right choice. Nothing has truly debuked christianity so far.

How can you first accept Jesus and then choose to let go all of his words and do something like buddhism? Just trying to understand, since I turned exactely the other way.

posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 10:34 AM
I was raised a heathen, in a dysfunctional, alcoholic, poverty stricken home. I was also pretty well-versed in insanity in others, since my father was probably certifiable.

He was a farm boy snatched up to fight in WWII (yes, I'm that old :ham
who came back to 2 year old me and Mom and continued to fight that war for 50 more years.

He was an abuser, who had probably been abused, though he didn't talk much about his childhood. It certainly hadn't been his mother who was his abuser though, since she was my Grandma and I knew her to be kind, loving and very tolerant.

She sang hymns when I was a kid and staying with her during one of many times that refuge was available to me by the grace of God and my parents many life changes. And though I never remember her going to church, she sent me and whichever of my siblings were there with me at the time. There is a vivid memory I access occasionally of sitting in a balcony in an empty church, seeing the light play through stained glass windows, no sound but the birds and wind outside, and the feeling of such peace as the Bible describes as being "past all understanding".

When I was 14 and living in Nevada, I went to an Assembly of God church with my brother and sister and got the devil scared out of me. I remember coming home and having them kneel down on the grass in the front yard and being scared to death the devil would jump up out of the ground and grab me. I don't think that was a real conversion though.

That occured when I was 30 years old, on the run from the law and a vicious bail bondsman, as well as a psychotic ex-husband, both of the latter having promised to "kill me wherever they found me". I was also the new mother of a 1 year baby boy who was not supposed to have been born since I'd been declared unable to have children at 21. He was the delight and light of my life and I was terrified lest I lose him by being apprehended by any of the 3 terrors hunting me. His father was with me but was a "square" meaning no help at all in staying undercover.

We were in the backwoods of New Mexico at the time, living on whatever we could scrape together by whatever work we could find to do, and my darling baby had to have special formula. We got some credit at the little crossroads store, and got invited to attend a dinner on the grounds meeting at the local Southern Baptist church.

Since we were down to beans and beans, I accepted gladly. Since it would have been impolite and downright ungrateful to have eaten and then skipped the services, we stayed. I don't know where the baby's father went but I attended a "rap group", thinking smart aleckly things, like "what are these farmers gonna "rap" about? Tractors?" and the like, being a very sophisticated ex-con, drug addict, and more.

I chose a seat well in the center of the circle, feeling uncomfortable at not being able to sit in a corner as was my habit. The leader of the group, a little red-headed woman from Texas began by asking us to go around the circle and tell "a little about yourselves". Well, I certainly wasn't about to tell them, and sort of enjoyed thinking what their reaction might be if I did. By the time the turns had reached me, I believe I had something extremely non-commital thought up, but when I opened my mouth, I began to cry, well, blubber would be more honest.

Since I hadn't cried in about 16 years, I was humiliated, embarrassed, ashamed, everything you can think of...nevertheless, I could not stop. Finally, she had mercy on me and went on. However, there was a 2nd round, and this time I was determined that I would annoy everyone with some bad-mannered speech about uncool people and places, and went to open my mouth but started blubbering again, this time with soaking tears that soon had face, nose, mouth, and clothing involved.

She pointed at me and said, "You have a problem you can't handle. If you will give it to Jesus, He will help you."

Got to go, more to come.

posted on Jun, 5 2006 @ 10:52 AM
(Continued from above)

Somehow, I had the impression that in order to do what she said, I had to go to the altar so I went to find it at the earliest opportunity. My crying jag had convinced me I'd reached the end of my coping ability, at the very least, and the reasoning went, if she said Jesus would help me, just maybe He would.

I found the empty hall where the altar was and knelt before it, though I have no memory of why I thought to find an altar or why I knew that kneeling was a thing to do. Maybe I'd learned more in the few times I went to a church service than I thought.

Anyway, I knelt, and I prayed, such as it was, "God, I don't know if you are real, and if You are, I don't know if you care, but I have a really big problem and I'd really like some help, if you are there and you do care."

To make the rest of this shorter, let it suffice to say this: My life did a 180 in terms of thinking and of things working out. I soon became convicned that I HAD to straighten my life out no matter what fell out because I came out of hiding. I continued to attend the So. Baptist church, was given a Bible and inhaled it. The Spirit was working overtime on me, within 6 months, I'd cried a trillion tears, confessed 30 years of wrong living over and over until the details were all a blur, quit smoking, and turned myself over to the very surprised preacher of the church for follow-through by a Christian brother who was a lawyer.

I had jumped parole, jumped bond, and was under subpoena to appear in yet another state on similar charges for that which I'd served my time. Yet, when the brother checked in all the right places, the word that came back was basically, "We don't want her, what are you bothering us for?"

This was such a great miracle, I was no longer bothered by the enemy of my soul about whether God existed or not, nor that He cared greatly for even me. I have still found no way to rejoice in Him sufficiently for such a great deliverance.

I left my baby's father, who had not become converted and whom I could not marry for other reasons, and returned to my parent's home after an absence of 3 years when I'd been unable to contact them in any way. My mother told me she had thought I was dead at the hand of the psycho ex, and when I told her I was a Christian, she was unimpressed. She knew me in the old way and never really got a grasp on the extent to which I'd been converted until the very end of her life when she too finally accepted her need of a Savior and prayed with me for Jesus to come and live within and through her.

I give God all love, all glory, and honor for His great gift of life, liberty and motherhood. I give Him all respect for His great work in me and in others of my ilk, and thanks for His goodness towards me and mine, as well as to all mankind.

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