Top 4 most powerful military's

Originally posted by WestPoint23
I’m going o get flamed for this but to the guy who was listing British losses I would add the US War of Independence to that list and the War of 1812.

Not really Westpoint,

In respect I knew you would comment in some way, how the americans had over come the british, it was just a matter of time. As it has been mentioned, it was a war against a rather small section of the Army. I am sure if I were to say that britain had used more forces, you would be sure to say that the American Forces would still have won, its amazining how the americans fail to mention that they also had French help during this period to combat the British.

As it has been mentioned, the american nation also is not without its faults, Vietnam being one, the Native Americans being another, but as I have mentioned every nation has a dark past. It doesn't bother me, I openly admit the faults and crimes committed in the distant past, I am more interested in the 20th Century, rather than going back to 1100 etc, its a pointless exercise, as with some time I could jump into the histories of most nations to show that they have a "questionable" military record, some America, Japan, China, Spain etc etc Although I do refuse to listen to the comments of a person Evidently baised against any nation, including my own.

I would prefer this didn't get into a pissing match. I think "Which Military's are better, Which aircraft are better etc" Should be banned.

- Phil

Why should it be any different if it’s the Americans or the Ethiopians that have overcome the British? Help from France? Yes during the War of Independence we had monetary help and arms help, no different than the help the British got during WWII.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Why should it be any different if it’s the Americans or the Ethiopians that have overcome the British? Help from France? Yes during the War of Independence we had monetary help and arms help, no different than the help the British got during WWII.

Nothing at all Westpoint, merely pointing out that I expected a comment of that likes from you sooner of later in this thread. I was merely pointing out a misconception that most americans I have met, hold when it comes to their own history, when it comes to americans winning their war with the british on all their lonesome.

Again like I have mentioned, going so far back in time is merely nitpicking to say the least, times change, so have the respective military's not to mention their leaders.

- Phil

Originally posted by gooseuk
I would prefer this didn't get into a pissing match. I think "Which Military's are better, Which aircraft are better etc" Should be banned.

Threads like "which country has the best military/land forces/air forces/navy" are forbidden in this forum, but the moderators haven't locked this thread and let it be 9 pages long.

I would report this thread to a moderator, but the moderators let this thread be 9 pages long.

Originally posted by gooseuk

Originally posted by WestPoint23

.... merely pointing out that I expected a comment of that likes from you sooner of later in this thread. I was merely pointing out a misconception that most americans I have met, hold when it comes to their own history, when it comes to americans winning their war with the british on all their lonesome.


- Phil

Quite right to point that out for purposes of clarrification ... yet to be fair, IMO the intent behind such statements (while perhaps technically vague ) were to express the achievement of beating an empire (the periods equivalent of superpower) with relatively modest resources and admittingly some outside help.

... when it is all said and done, we Americans did WIN our independance at significant risk and cost to ourselves ... irregardless of the logistical, political or strategic deficiencies from our then adversary Great Britain.

... unrealized potential is merely the yardstick for what could have been ... not what is ...

So in a nutshell it comes done to this ... The British probably could have beaten us then if they took the problem seriously enough ...

... they did not and the results are history so to speak.

... btw ... I also not discounting luck and circumstance as decisive factors in war ... but since it is not predictable nor manipulatable, I classify any such effect as pure happenstance and "The fog of war" .

LCKob

Here I present my own Rating

1 USA

Reason : today's stereotype media sources(including ATS ) doesn’t allow you to deny Ignorance ....If you want to prove something true you need the support of something false ...while dealing with the myth industry you become a part of It ..so are we all so is me

Pros : Enough resources, High Technology and Professionalism .

Cons : due to US backed media coverage the international audience is unaware of the cons of US military
however following drawbacks may be noted
1 too much dependence on foreign brains for Tech

2 I am not sure of this but I came to know that US gets a lot of minor parts from other nations –where its cheap . If this is true then it will be a great disadvantage for the US in case of a war isolation . please correct me if I am wrong

3 Questionable training :
The media tries to make us believe that they are the Best in everything but the recent repeated shameful defeats of USAF pilots against the IAF pilots (With so-called “backdated” soviet Equipment ) puts a big question mark on the efficacy of the US military training …when it comes to advanced countries .


2 Russia
Reason:
there are stereotype US western media backed negative-myths about Russia concerning
1 lack of Fund
and
2 Backdated soviet equipment

having seen the Russian facilities in my own eyes I have every reason to claim that they are all but just media backed myths
if you are interested in my out look read www.abovetopsecret.com...

Pros
1 one of the most talented pool of scientists in the world
2 Rich resources, technology , tradition, culture
3 one of the most diverse military systems in the world inheriting some of the best military units(many of with are almost absent in the countries that consists lower rank in my list ) Like :
1 The best special forces (Spetsnaz) …the beta unit has lost only 4 service men until today there are special Spetsnaz units for the army, air force and the navy who receive the best possible training
2 one of the best weather control technologies in the world
3 secret military cities/sites : according to analysts there are more than 200 of them : no one knows what there is ? according to US analysts they have undergone the most modernization among the Russian military units after the break down of USSR
4 Intelligence Dept (FSB - ex KGB)
Cons
1 Very poor management
2 corruption
3 lack of professionalism



3 and 4 UK and France
Reason : Tradition (that counts a lot )

Pros : 1 rich indigenous technology and Resources
2 professionalism

Cons:
France: since the WW2 has decided to stay off from wars and military spending as it does no good to the nation
UK: in spite of her rich military tradition , prefers to play a second fiddle to the US


5 India
Reason : they are a rising military power
Pros : a good pool of talented population
a developing indigenous medium tech military industry
a big man power

cons :
lack of war resources most importantly OIL
Indian politics
US Pakistan China backed terrorism
too much dependence on Russia and Europe for higher military tech

6 China
Reason : a rising Economy but too much over estimated

pros : economy
a big man power
reverse engineering

Cons
lack of war resources most importantly OIL
reverse engineering
lack of indigenous technology and too much dependence on Russia

of these the top 4 (ie US Russia UK France )will remain world leaders as far as military is concerned unless and untill some effective alternative fuel replaces petroleum because when there is a war you are likely to face an isolation ….so only self sufficient countries can survive ………the other rising powers (India and China ) lacks war resources most importantly oil and their whole military will crumble in case of a War Isolation

apart from this there are a few unrecognized powers with very high efficacy but we have poor knowledge and information to judge their power

1 The Muslim world
a jihad can unite them to a single country …and then they have all
nukes (Pakistan) money fuel etc (only no technology)

2 the EU
future may see a common military

3 Israel
the secret Nuclear power

4 Germany
longing for a revenge…they have all- war tradition ., resources , technology etc the rise of neo-nazism throughout Europe and N America speaks of their influence

5 Brazil
that are they doing with a military budget of 18bn $ ….serving 24 hr free coffee to their military men ?

6 N and S Korea
frankly I don’t have much knowledge

The muslim world??

chinawhite still thinks S Korea is militarily superior to India..

But SK has a little more forex reserves thatn India..

Russia has the Money..

www.mosnews.com...
www.mosnews.com...

[edit on 20-7-2005 by Daedalus3]

EDIT

[edit on 20-7-2005 by Daedalus3]

chinawhite still thinks S Korea is militarily superior to India..

But SK has a little more forex reserves thatn India..

It is. just think oh a american army with half the manpower.

Russia has the Money..

www.mosnews.com...
www.mosnews.com...

[edit on 20-7-2005 by Daedalus3]

that means little when they have debt higher than their reserves.

and they are still figting a war in chechnya

Originally posted by prelude
6 China
Reason : a rising Economy but too much over estimated

WTF. how can you under-estimate the worlds second largest economy PPP and the country with the second largest money reserves.?

pros : economy
a big man power
reverse engineering
Cons
lack of war resources most importantly OIL
reverse engineering
lack of indigenous technology and too much dependence on Russia

more pros. 2nd largest GDP in PPP and 6th in Nominal.
worlds second largest money reserves.
3rd largest RnD spender.
huge amount of indegenious technology.
Large population
advanced IT manufracturing.
90-99% of chinese population educated.
very high growth economy


[edit on 21-7-2005 by chinawhite]

Originally posted by prelude


5 India
Reason : they are a rising military power
Pros : a good pool of talented population
a developing indigenous medium tech military industry
a big man power

these arent good reasons.

Originally posted by prelude
1 one of the most talented pool of scientists in the world

2 Rich resources, technology , tradition, culture

tradition culture? arent they communism?

resources dont mean jack if you cant extract them.

im not to sure about technology but i bet the russians dont make their own CPUs

2 one of the best weather control technologies in the world

weather control good one. releasing chemcals in the air to stop it raining .is that what you call weather control?

3 secret military cities/sites : according to analysts there are more than 200 of them : no one knows what there is ? according to US analysts they have undergone the most modernization among the Russian military units after the break down of USSR

yadi yadi yada. what about these. they are reserved for the russian leadership while the rest of the population dies. kinda unfair.

4 Intelligence Dept (FSB - ex KGB)
Cons

good job on the moscow bombings.

Originally posted by AtheiX

Originally posted by Wodan
Atheix, what do you gain by make them beleave the german forces are strong?

Some of them think Germany can't defend itself.

So what?

Not our problem, we have over 1500 modern main battle tanks, we have In my opinion worlds best reserve system(cuz of the combination with conscription), and could do almost full-mobilisation within two or three weeks, or even more, our industry has to keep in their warehouses always a special amount of vehicles/food/tools/engines etc., for war-case, we have high productivity, etc. etc.
or just think about the "Wirtschaftssicherstellungsverordnung", which would presume our economy under military requierments in a really effective way within a few days.

It doesnt matter if they think, it does matter that we are prepared, for the case!

Originally posted by Wodan
I mean here in germany its not that popular to show off with german military stuff, even while I do it here sometimes, its in germany pretty unusual,

I know and I don't do it often. I am only doing it now on ATS.

Originally posted by Wodan
we have less danger of terrorattacks.

Actually I disagree. If terrorists think we are not strong, don't you think they will hit? Don't you think that countries who in their opinion are not strong are in their opinion an easy target? Don't you think that by making the terrorists think we are strong we cause their fear?

You think from the wrong point of view, if you are a thief, and there is something to steal, but you dont want it, nor you would be able to sell it, will you steal it?
NO, you wont (as long as you arent cleptomanic)

They do their attacks, to seed fear, and to propduce conflicts, so they attack nations that seem to strong, also they attack nations they think that threat their own countries, and so the main aims are the nations that directly harm them, or that are able to harm them directly, which are part of the western world, which they hate so much.


[edit on 21-7-2005 by Wodan]

This is the most stupid article I have seen in this website.
There are 20,000+ engineers in Huawei headquator which is located in Shenzhen, China. Many of my classmates or friends are working there as hardware/software developer and designer. Do you think Huawei will give its toppest technology secret to Indian? NO WAY! Not even mention allowing Indian people to design it.

Now let me tell you something in China:
1. Huawei already defeat CISCO, Nortel, Erricson in China's market, and selling their products to the developing countries.
2. There are 250+ million cell phone users in China.
3. There are 100+ million ADSL users in China
4. Lenovo, the largest PC company of China, just bought IBM's pc and laptop department last year
5. The largest 5 cities in mainland China, including Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Shenzhen, HongKong , ecah of them can be compared with NewYork, LA, Tokyo. Also, concerned with the top 10 highest building in the world, 5 of them are in China.
6. In the last 26 years, from 1979 to 2005, the average GDP growth rate of China is 9%
7. China's 2nd manned SpaceCraft, Shenzhou 6, just launched last week and successfully landing on China yesterday.

I don't need to list other evidences. Now please tell me what does India have, compared to the things I memtioned above.

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
Infact the China's largest tech company Huwai, has a 2000+ people R&D centre in Bangalore and a 800 person R&D centre in Noida and a 300 person one in Gurgaon & one in Hyderabad as well, but i dont know how many people work there (all Indian cities). But the products like routers, ADSL modems,etc that are reserched here are sent to china for manufacturing, where the factory workors put the parts together. And the technical support to the same is provided by call centres all over India.

[edit on 17-10-2005 by google_abcd]

[edit on 17-10-2005 by google_abcd]

1.US
2.Russia
3.China
4/5.UK or Japan
6.India

Originally posted by prelude
Here I present my own Rating

1 USA

Reason : today's stereotype media sources(including ATS ) doesn’t allow you to deny Ignorance ....If you want to prove something true you need the support of something false ...while dealing with the myth industry you become a part of It ..so are we all so is me

Pros : Enough resources, High Technology and Professionalism .

Cons : due to US backed media coverage the international audience is unaware of the cons of US military
however following drawbacks may be noted
1 too much dependence on foreign brains for Tech

2 I am not sure of this but I came to know that US gets a lot of minor parts from other nations –where its cheap . If this is true then it will be a great disadvantage for the US in case of a war isolation . please correct me if I am wrong

3 Questionable training :
The media tries to make us believe that they are the Best in everything but the recent repeated shameful defeats of USAF pilots against the IAF pilots (With so-called “backdated” soviet Equipment ) puts a big question mark on the efficacy of the US military training …when it comes to advanced countries .


2 Russia
Reason:
there are stereotype US western media backed negative-myths about Russia concerning
1 lack of Fund
and
2 Backdated soviet equipment

having seen the Russian facilities in my own eyes I have every reason to claim that they are all but just media backed myths
if you are interested in my out look read www.abovetopsecret.com...

Pros
1 one of the most talented pool of scientists in the world
2 Rich resources, technology , tradition, culture
3 one of the most diverse military systems in the world inheriting some of the best military units(many of with are almost absent in the countries that consists lower rank in my list ) Like :
1 The best special forces (Spetsnaz) …the beta unit has lost only 4 service men until today there are special Spetsnaz units for the army, air force and the navy who receive the best possible training
2 one of the best weather control technologies in the world
3 secret military cities/sites : according to analysts there are more than 200 of them : no one knows what there is ? according to US analysts they have undergone the most modernization among the Russian military units after the break down of USSR
4 Intelligence Dept (FSB - ex KGB)
Cons
1 Very poor management
2 corruption
3 lack of professionalism



3 and 4 UK and France
Reason : Tradition (that counts a lot )

Pros : 1 rich indigenous technology and Resources
2 professionalism

Cons:
France: since the WW2 has decided to stay off from wars and military spending as it does no good to the nation
UK: in spite of her rich military tradition , prefers to play a second fiddle to the US


5 India
Reason : they are a rising military power
Pros : a good pool of talented population
a developing indigenous medium tech military industry
a big man power

cons :
lack of war resources most importantly OIL
Indian politics
US Pakistan China backed terrorism
too much dependence on Russia and Europe for higher military tech

6 China
Reason : a rising Economy but too much over estimated

pros : economy
a big man power
reverse engineering

Cons
lack of war resources most importantly OIL
reverse engineering
lack of indigenous technology and too much dependence on Russia

of these the top 4 (ie US Russia UK France )will remain world leaders as far as military is concerned unless and untill some effective alternative fuel replaces petroleum because when there is a war you are likely to face an isolation ….so only self sufficient countries can survive ………the other rising powers (India and China ) lacks war resources most importantly oil and their whole military will crumble in case of a War Isolation

apart from this there are a few unrecognized powers with very high efficacy but we have poor knowledge and information to judge their power

1 The Muslim world
a jihad can unite them to a single country …and then they have all
nukes (Pakistan) money fuel etc (only no technology)

2 the EU
future may see a common military

3 Israel
the secret Nuclear power

4 Germany
longing for a revenge…they have all- war tradition ., resources , technology etc the rise of neo-nazism throughout Europe and N America speaks of their influence

5 Brazil
that are they doing with a military budget of 18bn $ ….serving 24 hr free coffee to their military men ?

6 N and S Korea
frankly I don’t have much knowledge

How in the world did I not see this thread sooner

My rankings:

1) USAF
2) USN
3) US Army
4) USMC

JK


1) USA

Reasons - Huge numbers of state of the art weapons systems. Superior force multipliers. Completely dominant Airforce and Navy allowing for logistical support unrivaled in the history of warfare. Large number of soldiers backed by good training. Nearly 5 times the number of nuclear warheads as the 2nd largest arsenal. Very experienced soldiers and officers. Vast monetary backing. By far the best R&D in the world.

Counter-argument - The US has matched up against vastly inferior opponents, so results have been exagerated (then again, what world power has faced an equal recently?). All volunteer system produces a very good pool of soldiers with great desire, but after that, would the US react well to conscription? My thought is, only if we were attacked first ala WWII. High dependence on technology means in a drawn out war, force multipliers (that the US relies on to take on superier numbers) could be weakened.

Overall - Simply put, far and away the most powerfull military in the world with huge numbers of superior weapons. More nukes then the rest of the world combined, with the best delivery systems, automatically makes this the most lethal military. Battle hardened soldiers from the WOT gives the US the most experienced military in the world. Most importantly though, the US controls the air and seas, and so always controls the initiative and can deny logistical support to it's enemies.



2) Russia

Reasons - Second best technology pool in the world. Large numbers of hardware. Second largest nuclear arsenal in the world. Large pool of soldiers to draw from. Cold war experience for officers.

Counter-argument - Lots of hardware, but most of it is outdated. Poor monetary backing. Poor logistical support. Poor training in jobs that require a lot of it (example: Pilots flight hours).

Overall - Despite the collapse of the USSR, they still retain a vast nuclear arsenal, and large practical technology base. The soldiers have some experience, and senior officers retain experience from Afghanistan. They lack power projection and large quantities of modern equipment, but those have always been issues for Russia.

3) UK

Reasons - Superb special forces and intelegence. Intensive high level training. Large technology base. Great Navy. Battle hardened soldiers and experienced officers. Top notch MBT, and the second best air superiority fighter in the world. Reasonable nuclear detterent.

Counter-argument - Lack of funding. Small numbers. Some systems getting long in the tooth. Problems with their main battle rifle. Logistical system is shacky.

Overall - Though they lack quantity, they make up for it with pure quality in their ranks. Their technology base is advanced, but they have not procured that technology as much as they should have. Practically, they do not need a large military, because their brothers across the Atlantic would provide that in any large scale war.

4) China

Reasons - HUGE population to draw from. Conscription has given them over 100 million trained soldiers. Reasonable nuclear arsenal. Large numbers of equipment. Under rated and ever improving Navy, especially in regards to submarines.

Counter-argument - Poor technology base, as they have spent the 20th and 21st century copying others technology. Poor logistical base. Though they have high numbers of equipment, a lot of it is obsolete. No power projection to speak of (no aircraft carriers, no over seas bases that I can think of, no global strike ability). Green soldiers and officer ranks would be a dissadvantage over any experienced military. Poor training.

Overview - Right now, they are kind of like Russia in that they lack quality equipment. They have no home grown technology to speak of however, so in an all out prolonged war, they would be at a significant disadvantage. Despite this, they retain hordes of soldiers to throw at the enemy, and huge industrial potential. In a few decades they could challange US supremecy.

Honorable mention: Isreal, India

To stealth spy:
I just found some photos of Huawei headquarter in Shenzhen, China.
And I am sure you will shut up after viewing them.

Get off work( From the badge they wear, they should be the engineers)


cafeteria



swimming pool and tennis court for employees


administrative center


at night



hall


QA center


storage center



WCDMA center


R&D center



R&D/QA/Support engineering training

Originally posted by google_abcd
This is the most stupid article I have seen in this website.
There are 20,000+ engineers in Huawei headquator which is located in Shenzhen, China. Many of my classmates or friends are working there as hardware/software developer and designer. Do you think Huawei will give its toppest technology secret to Indian? NO WAY! Not even mention allowing Indian people to design it.

Now let me tell you something in China:
1. Huawei already defeat CISCO, Nortel, Erricson in China's market, and selling their products to the developing countries.
2. There are 250+ million cell phone users in China.
3. There are 100+ million ADSL users in China
4. Lenovo, the largest PC company of China, just bought IBM's pc and laptop department last year
5. The largest 5 cities in mainland China, including Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Shenzhen, HongKong , ecah of them can be compared with NewYork, LA, Tokyo. Also, concerned with the top 10 highest building in the world, 5 of them are in China.
6. In the last 26 years, from 1979 to 2005, the average GDP growth rate of China is 9%
7. China's 2nd manned SpaceCraft, Shenzhou 6, just launched last week and successfully landing on China yesterday.

I don't need to list other evidences. Now please tell me what does India have, compared to the things I memtioned above.

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
Infact the China's largest tech company Huwai, has a 2000+ people R&D centre in Bangalore and a 800 person R&D centre in Noida and a 300 person one in Gurgaon & one in Hyderabad as well, but i dont know how many people work there (all Indian cities). But the products like routers, ADSL modems,etc that are reserched here are sent to china for manufacturing, where the factory workors put the parts together. And the technical support to the same is provided by call centres all over India.

[edit on 17-10-2005 by google_abcd]

[edit on 17-10-2005 by google_abcd]

[edit on 18-10-2005 by google_abcd]

Originally posted by google_abcd

Now let me tell you something in China:
1. Huawei already defeat CISCO, Nortel, Erricson in China's market, and selling their products to the developing countries.
2. There are 250+ million cell phone users in China.
3. There are 100+ million ADSL users in China
4. Lenovo, the largest PC company of China, just bought IBM's pc and laptop department last year
5. The largest 5 cities in mainland China, including Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Shenzhen, HongKong , ecah of them can be compared with NewYork, LA, Tokyo. Also, concerned with the top 10 highest building in the world, 5 of them are in China.
6. In the last 26 years, from 1979 to 2005, the average GDP growth rate of China is 9%
7. China's 2nd manned SpaceCraft, Shenzhou 6, just launched last week and successfully landing on China yesterday.

I don't need to list other evidences. Now please tell me what does India have, compared to the things I memtioned above.

Impressive to say the least. I must say Huawei is an excellent organisation doing absolutely world-class work, and is definately comparable if not better than the 'best in the west'

But to answer just a little query you raised about what India has, i think the following link is a good example

www.expresscomputeronline.com...

As you can see the Huawei India R&D centre is very important part of its business plans. Now i am not going as far as saying that "all the R&D" is done in India, but yes i think a significant part of it, especially where software is concerned. Huawei is a smart organization, it would not have been where it is today if it had not been so, and it realises the advantage of utilizing the strong software development and R&D culture already prevalent in India.

For that matter many Indian organizations, namely a few like TCS, Infosys etc, are setting up shop in China to provide software services to the large Chinese market, where demand for such services is high and supply a little short.

In todays world it doesnt make sense to compete with one another when countries can work together and use their natural synergies (China-Excellent Hardware Capabilties, India-Excellent Software Capabilties) for the benefit of both.

Oh and about the pictures of the Huawei HQ, you would do well to check out the Infosys Campus in Bangalore too

Prelude is very correct in that one of the biggest factors is military tradition.
The US, Russia, and Israel have very good military tradition, moreso than India and China, who are rapidly modernizing their forces, and seem to have a limitless manpower pool, but in the event of a real war, how many Chinese have fired rifles? How many of them have any survival training. The same with India. I am not doubting their abilities, but the traditional hunting, military service, and nationalism of Russia and the USA make them very formidable foes.

Many will argue USA has had no real test since the actual war in Iraq seemed to be a cakewalk. Some will also note the lack of numbers the US military has next to others.

For those I will mention that any combat experience is highly benefitial and is more valuable than training. The US also does not conscript troops, but has a willing manpower base, and a large one, if it was needed.

Russia also is questioned in their effectiveness, because of seemingly outdated equipment and the Chechnyan experience.

For those, remember the Russians have a VAST amount of equipment in which to modernize and it dwarfs any other nation, even if they are not fully upgraded. Also Chechnya, unlike many conflicts, was urban combat against well armed and organized foes in mountainous terrain with little popular support on the home front, combined with a guerilla war and the need for prolonged occupation and ethnic conflict. I doubt any other nation would have faired better, USA, China, and UK included.

I believe the major advantage of Indian IT industry is that the indian people use English as their official language. And because of this, most western IT companies move their call center and support center to India. Maybe they should thank the British people.

However, China software industry doesn't care too much about the outsourcing because currently China has one of the largest IT market in the world especially in telecommunication and mobile industry.
The first priority task for each Chinese IT company is try to occupy the China's market. Only some big giants like Huawei, Leveno have enough money, time and interest to go abroad.

I have many years working experience in China's telecomunicaion software and I know the 1st and 2nd largest BOSS(Telcom/mobile Operation Support System) in the world are both in China which services for 50 million cell phone users. Such a big and booming market is already enough to support thousands of IT companies.

As I know, the largest software R&D centers of Microsoft and IBM outside US is in Bejing and Shanghai, China.

Also Chinese university students won the Global Championship of ACM software programming contest in 2002 and 2004. ACM is the largest softare programming contest for university students in the world and every year thousands of universities and colleagus including MIT, Princeton, Berkeley will send their best students to attend it. China won 2 championships of ACM in the last 4 years already prove the software industry of China has a very good fundation.

In my opinion, fair and peaceful competition is good for improvement of human's life. As I know, China's goal are the following:
1. Hardware, compete with US, especially in CPU and spacecraft. The second generation of China's CPU has been made out which euqals to Intel P4 in performance. But the average of China's hardware is still 10 years behind US.
2. Software, compete with US and Europe, especially in Oerpation System(Microsoft) and Database(Oracle, SAP). There are many modified version of Linux system in China however China's software is still 15 years behind US.
3. Automobile, compete with Japan and Gemenry. 10 years behind Japan and Germany,5-8 years Behind US.
4. Telecommunication and Mobile market, already NO.1 in the world if only considering the number of customers. Still 3-5 years behind Japan and Korea.
Talking about the average life standard and technoloy level, China is still 20 years behind US, 15 years behind Japan, 10 years behind other western developed countries.

To tell the truth, I like competition. It makes people work hard and get improved.

Originally posted by puneetsg

Originally posted by google_abcd

Now let me tell you something in China:
1. Huawei already defeat CISCO, Nortel, Erricson in China's market, and selling their products to the developing countries.
2. There are 250+ million cell phone users in China.
3. There are 100+ million ADSL users in China
4. Lenovo, the largest PC company of China, just bought IBM's pc and laptop department last year
5. The largest 5 cities in mainland China, including Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Shenzhen, HongKong , ecah of them can be compared with NewYork, LA, Tokyo. Also, concerned with the top 10 highest building in the world, 5 of them are in China.
6. In the last 26 years, from 1979 to 2005, the average GDP growth rate of China is 9%
7. China's 2nd manned SpaceCraft, Shenzhou 6, just launched last week and successfully landing on China yesterday.

I don't need to list other evidences. Now please tell me what does India have, compared to the things I memtioned above.

Impressive to say the least. I must say Huawei is an excellent organisation doing absolutely world-class work, and is definately comparable if not better than the 'best in the west'

But to answer just a little query you raised about what India has, i think the following link is a good example

www.expresscomputeronline.com...

As you can see the Huawei India R&D centre is very important part of its business plans. Now i am not going as far as saying that "all the R&D" is done in India, but yes i think a significant part of it, especially where software is concerned. Huawei is a smart organization, it would not have been where it is today if it had not been so, and it realises the advantage of utilizing the strong software development and R&D culture already prevalent in India.

For that matter many Indian organizations, namely a few like TCS, Infosys etc, are setting up shop in China to provide software services to the large Chinese market, where demand for such services is high and supply a little short.

In todays world it doesnt make sense to compete with one another when countries can work together and use their natural synergies (China-Excellent Hardware Capabilties, India-Excellent Software Capabilties) for the benefit of both.

Oh and about the pictures of the Huawei HQ, you would do well to check out the Infosys Campus in Bangalore too

[edit on 19-10-2005 by google_abcd]