Top 4 most powerful military's

no you've got influence and power projection confused..

Influence is what china is bulding in IRan and SE ASia..
Poewr projection is carriers, internationals Army/AF Bases etc etc..

Power projection doesn't necessarily invole troops.. It involves "power".. the ability to strike far away..
Not necessarily the ability to "occupy" only..]

And i don;'t know how many MiGs they have there.. but at least a squadron or two..otherwise it would defeat the purpose of having a far flung base..

Originally posted by Daedalus3
no you've got influence and power projection confused..

Influence is what china is bulding in IRan and SE ASia..
Poewr projection is carriers, internationals Army/AF Bases etc etc..

Power projection doesn't necessarily invole troops.. It involves "power".. the ability to strike far away..
Not necessarily the ability to "occupy" only..]

And i don;'t know how many MiGs they have there.. but at least a squadron or two..otherwise it would defeat the purpose of having a far flung base..

isn't it the ability to project power far away from bases?

The global security website says that India has 10 MK3 LCUs.. I think those are troop carriers.. don't know capacity.. but if escorted by a carrier then they have the desirable reach...

You see a/c Carriers are the key you see..
And if you have carriers then, you MUST have stable supply lines..
You're trying to say that the IN carriers are w/o supply lines.. but that defeats the very purpose of having carriers..

Plus India is slated to have 3 carriers by 2010..

You cannot have carriers w/o adequate supply vessels..
Do the math for yourself...

and what happens when infantry are hidden on the beach with anti-ship anti-tank missiles. landing craft are very venerable to attack since they are big slow and packed with fuel supply weapons.

the problem is supply ships. i cant a large indian supply ship.

[edit on 8-7-2005 by chinawhite]

Well can you see carriers..
India does not posess teleportation technology so when a carrier is say off the coast of Australia.. it must be supplied somehow right?

IN carriers don't shuttle back to port every 3 to 4 days now do they?
Or do you assume that they do??!!



And now please dont say that you can only see 2.. I've shown you what I could find online..

Originally posted by Daedalus3
Well can you see carriers..
India does not posess teleportation technology so when a carrier is say off the coast of Australia.. it must be supplied somehow right?

IN carriers don't shuttle back to port every 3 to 4 days now do they?
Or do you assume that they do??!!



And now please dont say that you can only see 2.. I've shown you what I could find online..

no i think i said a carrier needs to re-fuel every 3-4 days.(conventional carrier)

anyhow try support a fleet of ships with a few supply ships

ok here is a full break down of the indian navy from the horse's mouth

indiannavy.nic.in...

look under ther fleet auxilliaries section to find wht u lookin for.

keep one thing in mind, indian navy's force projection currently only covers the IOR. but as the no. of aircraft carriers increase so will the ships forming the 'carrier battle groups' as will the support ships. this goes without saying.

there are three. less than i throught

ok lets do some quick calculations

range of INS VIRAAT (only a/c with india right now)

6500 miles at 14 knots
1 knot = 1.15mph (roughly)

That means that the VIRAAT can stay at sea for roughly 16 days. definately more than the 3-4 u were talkin about

where did you get the range from?

the Viraat is like the weight of a US heli carrier.

here is the link

www.bharat-rakshak.com...

and btw us heli-carriers weigh in at arond 18300 tns. unlike the Viraat which weighs in at 28700 tns.

it says the maxium range. no manuvering no high-speed dashes. and i dont think they include the use of the fighters. because they uses fuel

a US heli carrier is Approx. 40,500 tons (36,450 metric tons) full load

Originally posted by chinawhite
a US heli carrier is Approx. 40,500 tons (36,450 metric tons) full load

ok firstly thts one BIG heli-carrier we talkin about!!!! i mean its bigger than most a/c out there today! please provide some links preferably with pics so that i can feast my eyes on such a marvellous piece of engineering

Originally posted by chinawhite
and i dont think they include the use of the fighters. because they uses fuel

do u mean to say the fighter use the a/c fuel??? maybe u mean carryin the fighters takes up more fuel. true it does. but then i dont think tht they have range tests for a/c like they do for cars (like in cars there is no air conditioning, no luggage, one passenger etc etc) so in all probability the range given is for standard tonnage.

Originally posted by chinawhite
it says the maxium range. no manuvering no high-speed dashes.

ok my calculations may have quite a bit off. check the links below

www.globalsecurity.org...

and

The Indian Navy top brass, however, has given great importance to aircraft carriers in its overall naval strategy. Gorshkov, with a sea endurance of 30 days and the capacity to carry more than 2,000 sailors and officers

www.frontlineonnet.com...


the ranges/endurance for the Vikramaditya and ADS are given as 30 and 45 days respectively, the ADS is given a range of 7500 nm, so one can reasonably state that the Viraat has an endurance of jus under 1 month

Originally posted by puneetsg

ok firstly thts one BIG heli-carrier we talkin about!!!! i mean its bigger than most a/c out there today! please provide some links preferably with pics so that i can feast my eyes on such a marvellous piece of engineering

www.globalsecurity.org...

Originally posted by chinawhite


do u mean to say the fighter use the a/c fuel??? maybe u mean carryin the fighters takes up more fuel. true it does. but then i dont think tht they have range tests for a/c like they do for cars (like in cars there is no air conditioning, no luggage, one passenger etc etc) so in all probability the range given is for standard tonnage.

they say maxium range. maxium possible with out manuvering and not at max weight

Originally posted by chinawhite


ok my calculations may have quite a bit off. check the links below

www.globalsecurity.org...

no they are not. the Viraat is 28000 tons while the other ships are close to or over 40000. thats a big difference

the ranges/endurance for the Vikramaditya and ADS are given as 30 and 45 days respectively, the ADS is given a range of 7500 nm, so one can reasonably state that the Viraat has an endurance of jus under 1 month

my answer above

ok the range is in Nautical Miles. the a/c can move around in circles jus off the Bombay coast and it will still need to refuel only after it has covered a distance of 6500 nm.

so u can put in as many manouveres as u want but tht does not change the 6500 number much. the distance tht the ship can travel is still around tht number. the displacement that the ship travels might be 0 but the distance is still 6500.

he guy any body can provide what is past and present of china navy.
what position he held in international water.l

1 usa
2 prc
3 russia
4 france
5 india
6 germany
7 italy
8 pakistan
9 uk
10 turkey

Originally posted by puneetsg
ok the range is in Nautical Miles. the a/c can move around in circles jus off the Bombay coast and it will still need to refuel only after it has covered a distance of 6500 nm.

so u can put in as many manouveres as u want but tht does not change the 6500 number much. the distance tht the ship can travel is still around tht number. the displacement that the ship travels might be 0 but the distance is still 6500.

we are talking about miles not nautical miles. small difference but still a difference.

again it said maxium range at 14knots. when you go faster you use a lot more fuel. find out if its empty eight or full weight

Originally posted by mirza2003
he guy any body can provide what is past and present of china navy.
what position he held in international water.

the indian navy is not a international navy it doesn't have the power to project power into european waters alantic waters. pacific waters.

chinas navy was geared to be a coastal defence force in the 70s-80s but in the 90s larger ships were built. eg. Luhu Luhai. now newer surface ships are being built eg Type 52C Type 52B and Sovremenny. these ships are built to go out to see not for coastal patrol.

and now a new class of airdefence ship is being built the Type 51C. the question you should ask is why would china build a aegis class ship when chinas navy is cover by land-based aircraft if it was geared towards a coastal force.

Originally posted by styx1
1 usa
2 prc
3 russia
4 france
5 india
6 germany
7 italy
8 pakistan
9 uk
10 turkey

That doesn't sound too right..Pakistan above the UK??!!