POLITICS: Reagan Voted Greatest American of all time

This is Reagan's most famous speech, "The Boys of Pointe du Hoc" in June 6th, 1984, please read it:
Reagan's speech, June 6, 1984

This is the speech that few usually reserved Secret Service agents guarding the President that day were moved to tears, unheard of in the history of the US Secret Service.

Reagan was genuinely a real person as a politician and as the President. Sure he had his faults and detractors over the years, but Reagan won grudging praises and respects from those who regarded him as a formidable foe. As a young man, Reagan was a lifeguard who saved several lives from drowning (in those days - 1920s to 1930s - lifeguard service was rare around the country).

On the day of an attempt assassination on his life, Reagan calmed an upset Nancy with this: "Honey, I forgot to duck,".

He deserved the "Greatest American" because he was a part of the America's Greatest Generation, contributed himself to the national causes over the years, for his unwavering faith in the greatness of the American nation and for his larger role on the international stage as President. There won't be anyone like him ever again, perhaps not for a very long time.

Ronald Reagan was a great American. One of the greatest? Yes THe single greatest? Nah he has alot of company.

So why Reagan? He represented a time an age of the past that Americans had always looked to. Yes many will point to his hollywood training, but the man had a certain cahrisma about him. Look to the last two "Big" speakers in the WHite House Clinton and Reagan. Clinton was an excellent speaker as was Reagan. But with REagan, you really got the feeling that he was a true beliver in what he was saying.

For modern presidents Reagan wins hands down. I don't think that you cna easily or fairly compare them from different era,

While I am now one of the admirers of Ronald Reagan, I don't think it should be forgotten that Reagan snubbed the dedication of the The Vietnam Veterans Memorial. Apparently, that act didn't hurt his general popularity, but at the time, it didn't win him many friends among veterans of the war in Vietnam.

Reagan was also quite the actor, and admirable trait for all American Presidents. Why he would be touted as the Greatest American, in my eyes, proves the propoganda expounded over the years lauding presidents to a level paramount to any other world leader. The man was a failed persident bar his supposed dealings with the soviets, and even that is a spurious accord. Reaganomics is a failed economic system, and it dictated itself quite evidently; his domestic policies were deliterious, and the man himself was suffering throughout his last term; not fit to be leader.

Martin Luther King would have taken my vote.

Luxifero.

[edit on 4-7-2005 by Luxifero]

my vote for best american would go to jerry lee lewis.
he married his thirteen yr. old cousin, he had two wives die of a cracked skull on the swimming pool deck(just an accident, really), he poured booze all over grand pianos and lit them on fire, he waved a gun at elvis, he was mean, evil, and an arsehole.
and yet, he's considered to be a 'great american'. i LOVE IT!!!!

or elvis, himself. the 'king' of depravity. long live the king.

'greatest american'. what a CROCK!

the only thing reagan was good for, was taking a bush bullet.

Well most Americans have forgot about his wild spending in office. The national debt skyrocketed during his terms exceeding former presidents' spending many times over and this was a republican to boot.

Maybe this is why most Americans liked the man. He gave the average Joe Blow of the time the illusion of a better economic future. They just didn't see that he was borrowing that future from their great grand kids making it their responsibility to pay all that borrowed money back.

He brought us Bush Sr. who followed in Reagans footsteps spending money raising the debt even more.

Then we had Clinton. He actually put us on the road to paying off all those bills.

Bush Jr. rode Clintons coat tails on the domestic front when he first went into office by claiming the republicans were responsible for the debt coming out of the red and gave no credit to Clinton who was the one that really pulled it off. If 9/11 wound not have happened everyone would be praising Clinton for pulling this country out of the hole.

As far as greatest American, I think that should go to someone other than a politician. A true leader. Someone like WWII General George S. Patton who had real balls, not Reagan.

This man was a B movie actor admired for his physique.

He spent the course of the war in Hollywood, making training films, due to an astigmatism.

He was responsible for the rise to power of the Bush family, because of his decisions regulating the oil economy and his appointments/endorsements.

He restarted the war on drugs for cryin' out loud! That was possibly the largest economic/social policy mistake of the MILLENIUM! It's cost this country untold suffering and hardship. It's turned this nation into a holding tank for SEASONING ABUSERS and POWDERED PLANT SALESMEN!

There are simply no words to describe my frustration at the fundamental inability of people to look past the media whitewashing of the past.

Trickle down was a fraud!

He bungled the AIDS crisis because he considered it a Gay Plague!

Reagan policy tacitly condoned Apartheid in South Africa, funded Contras, not to mention everybody's pall UBL!

Have y'all forgotten this? Were never told about this? CONDONE this?

Call me curious, but I gotta know.

All the posthumous beatification of this man was sickening when you consider the man's legacy. Let's just forget about all that because we like his wife and he was a funny guy.

"Just say NO" to this flagrant disregard for decency. Just because the man's dead, doesn't make him a saint.

Edit - Read the Rest

[edit on 4-7-2005 by WyrdeOne]

Remember that aids had just been discovered and not much was known about it. Reagon wanted to quarantine AIDS patients which in the past would have been done without question. BTW it was Reagons build up of the US military that not only ended the cold war but fueled mr clintons administration when he began scaling it back and selling it off. Also it was the republican controlled congress that helped fuel the economic boom during his years. Yes, clinton did get us back on the road to cutting the national debt and i give him credit for that. remember Reagon is most remembered for helping bring down the soviet empire.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
All the posthumous beatification of this man was sickening when you consider the man's legacy. Let's just forget about all that because we like his wife and he was a funny guy.

Are you angry because you don't like Reagan or was their a person dear to your heart that wasn't mentioned and now feel the need to vent?

I'm trying to figure out why someone would go to such lengths to tear down a man voted best American in a silly cable channel poll? Are you worried that this poll is somehow effecting the majority of Americans? I don't get it. The only thing I can figure with some certainty is that you didn't vote republican in the last election. Aside from that what is the motive for this rant WyrdeOne?

Even though times were tough for my family under raygunomics, the gipper was far from the worst. Could this discovery vote be a possible harbinger for some facelifts on Rushmore?

Originally posted by WyrdeOne

He restarted the war on drugs for cryin' out loud! That was possibly the largest economic/social policy mistake of the MILLENIUM! It's cost this country untold suffering and hardship. It's turned this nation into a holding tank for SEASONING ABUSERS and POWDERED PLANT SALESMEN!

I'm not a fan of the war on drugs and it's myriad effects, but the fact is that the "untold suffering and hardship" is the result of drugs, not the laws against them.

He bungled the AIDS crisis because he considered it a Gay Plague.

This is just a damned lie. Reagan allocated millions for research for AIDS. No governmental bureaucrat or politician has "bungled the AIDS crisis."


[edit on 2005/7/4 by GradyPhilpott]

Lets not forget all the other GREAT things Reagan did:

Some Excerpts from www.thirdworldtraveler.com...
and
www.rise4news.net...

WAR CRIMES!
From Conclusions and Judgment of Brussels Tribunal on Reagan’s Foreign Policy
(September 30, 1984)

2. Grenada. The Reagan administration’s 1983 invasion of Grenada was a clear-cut violation of the UN Charter articles 2(3), 2(4), and 33 as well as of articles 18, 20, and 21 of the Revised OAS Charter for which there was no valid excuse or justification under international law. As such, it constituted an act of aggression within the meaning of article 39 of the United Nation’s Charter.

3. Threat of U.S. Intervention. In direct violation of the basic requirement of international law mandating the peaceful settlement of international disputes, the Reagan administration has implemented a foreign policy towards Central American that constitutes a great danger of escalation in military hostilities to the point of precipitating armed intervention by U.S. troops into combat against both the insurgents in El Salvador and the legitimate government of Nicaragua.

4. El Salvador. The Reagan administration’s illegal intervention inot El Salvador’s civil war contravenes the international legal right of self-determination of peoples as recognized by article 1(2) of the United Nations Charter. The Reagan administration has provided enormous amounts of military assistance to an oppressive regime that has used it to perpetrate a gross and consistent pattern of violations of the most fundamental human rights of the people of El Salvador.

5. Nicaragua. The Reagan administration’s policy of organizing and participating in military operations by opposition contra groups for the purpose of overthrowing the legitimate government of Nicaragua violates the terms of both the UN and OAS. Charters prohibiting the threat or use of force against the political independence of a state. The Reagan administration has flouted its obligation to terminate immediately its support for the opposition contra groups in accordance with the Interim Order of Protection issued by the International Court of Justice on 10 May 1984.

6. The International Court of Justice. The Panel denounces the patently bogus attempt by the Reagan administration to withdraw from the compulsory jurisdiction of the International Court of Justice in the suit brought against it by Nicaragua for the purpose of avoiding a peaceful settlement of this dispute by the World Court in order to pursue instead a policy based upon military intervention, lawless violence and destabilization of the legitimate government of Nicaragua.

7. Mining Nicaraguan Harbors. The Reagan administration’s mining of Nicaraguan harbors violates the rules of international law set forth in the 1907 Hague Convention on the laying of Submarine Mines, to which both Nicaragua and the United States are parties.


By the way...do you know that the ONLY country ever to be convicted of international terrorism was the USA? We're number one! We're number one!

but I digress...

Without doubt, it is safer for an American journalist or politician to wag a finger at Milosovic or at the killers in Rwanda or at the Khmer Rouge than it is to confront the guilt that pervaded Ronald Reagan's presidency.
Reagan, after all, has a throng of ideological enthusiasts - many with opinion columns and seats on weekend chat shows. Nothing makes them madder than to hear their hero disparaged.
To suggest that Reagan should be held to the same moral standard as Milosovic also invites lectures about "moral equivalence," a clever construct of the 1980s that meant, in effect, that the Cold War justified whatever American policy-makers did. One must not equate "our" crimes with "theirs."
Ironically, many of the conservatives who today advocate rock-hard moral values and who deplore fuzzy moral relativism embraced exactly that sort of situational ethic in the 1980s.
They did so under the banner of the Reagan doctrine, which held that battling the Evil Empire sanctified all actions no matter what other moral laws were violated, like some Medieval crusade, blessed by the pope and then sent off to slaughter infidels.
In this context, murder of unarmed civilians was not wrong. Neither were assassinations, torture, genocide, rape and drug smuggling. indeed, nothing was wrong as long as it was done in the name of winning the Cold War.
It didn't matter that the Soviet Union was in steep decline before the 1980s. It didn't matter that there never was a master plan for conquering the United States through Central America. It didn't matter that most of the victims simply wanted basic rights that North Americans take for granted.
But even more corrupting in its own way was the slippery refusal to debate the rationalizations openly. While the "moral equivalence" debate captivated some intellectual circles, the Reagan administration's basic strategy was simply to lie.
Rather than defending the atrocities, Reagan and his loyalists most often just denied that the crimes had happened and attacked anyone who said otherwise as a communist dupe.


Damn...that sounds familiar...but we don't say commie anymore these days...do we kiddies...we call it something else. What is it...I forget....


Enjoy the read. LEARNING IS GOOD...Learning seems good to me...learning is hard...but TV says other things VOD...I know it does sweety...I know it does.
Now go back to sleep honey...your government has figured it out - Bill HIcks


There is no friend anywhere - Lao Tse

Originally posted by Voice_of Doom
Lets not forget all the other GREAT things Reagan did:

Some Excerpts from www.thirdworldtraveler.com...
and
www.rise4news.net...

Well. I'm finally convinced. Ronald Reagan is the greatest American of all time.

That's your side on Reagan and I disagreed with you.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
He was responsible for the rise to power of the Bush family, because of his decisions regulating the oil economy and his appointments/endorsements.

Not true. Bush (the senior) ran against him in the primary 1980 election. When Bush was suggested as Reagan's Vice President candidate, Reagan didn't wanted Bush (his VP choice was none-than-other Gerald Ford, the former President! ). Eventually, for the good and unity of the Republican Party at the time, Reagan changed course (on Ford's suggestion) and accept Bush as VP candidate.
Source

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
He restarted the war on drugs for cryin' out loud! That was possibly the largest economic/social policy mistake of the MILLENIUM! It's cost this country untold suffering and hardship. It's turned this nation into a holding tank for SEASONING ABUSERS and POWDERED PLANT SALESMEN!

Not true. The war on drug policy was instituted by President Richard Nixon. Read its history: Source

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
Trickle down was a fraud!

Untrue. Trickle down theory (or effect) have its pluses and minuses (benefits and errors). It's not a perfect economic system nor it was a failure. Source

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
He bungled the AIDS crisis because he considered it a Gay Plague!

Not true. According to Wikipedia's bio on Reagan: It should be noted that AIDS was just beginning to be understood at this time. The term AIDS had been coined that year and was not yet widely used--hence the reporter calling it "the gay plague" instead. HIV, the virus which causes AIDS, would not be identified until 1983.)

Perhaps you didn't read the bio thoroughly. tsk-tsk-tsk.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
Reagan policy tacitly condoned Apartheid in South Africa, funded Contras, not to mention everybody's pall UBL!

Not exactly. Again, you didn't read the bio thoroughly. You missed the part that his administration condemned the military wings of the anti-apartheid movement, the ANC and other groups fighting apartheid in South Africa. This is not a revisionist view. Anti-apartheid violence and rioting in South Africa in the 1980s were getting worse and the Reagan administration was concerned that instability in the African region was undermining economic and international efforts to get both sides (the South African white government and the anti-apartheid factions) to engage in dialogue and negotiations instead of an all-out civil war in South Africa and Reagan was concerned with the fighting in the Soviet occupation of Angola (yes, the Soviet Union was occupying another country while they were occupying Afghanistan in Central Asia) was spreading over the southern African region.

But Reagan made a mistake in support of apartheid in South Africa in his first term. He realized that by the start of the second term, he condemned apartheid and encouraged both sides in South Africa to continue talking to each other instead of fighting.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne"Just say NO" to this flagrant disregard for decency. Just because the man's dead, doesn't make him a saint.

I say yes to Reagan as the Greatest American but sainthood, no. I admit that he had his faults and that he's not the Greatest President there was (the honor is reserved to President Abraham Lincoln, with Pres. George Washington and Pres. James Knox Polk coming in place respectively).


[edit on 7/4/2005 by the_oleneo]

[edit on 7/4/2005 by the_oleneo]

Grady
Matters of opinion are not exactly open to designation as either lie or truth. I think Reagan dropped the ball when AIDS came to town. He chose to rely on stereotypes and ignore the warnings of those who saw HIV/AIDS for the problem it really was. You obviously disagree. I don't think you're a liar because you disagree, I just recognize that you have a difference of opinion.

Here's some reading.
www.thebody.com...

I'm not calling you a liar, which is to say, one who is characterized by lying, but rather that the statement that Reagan bungled the AIDS crises is a lie. From the very beginning, the facts about HIV and AIDS have been disseminated freely, regardless of how much the epidemiology might have confused some lay people in the early days.

Now, more than twenty years and billions of dollars later, the virus still confounds scientists and a vaccine or a cure is still in the distant future. AIDS is not the fault of the "right" or the Republicans and it certainly is not the fault of Ronald Reagan and that article you cite is probably the most biased piece of garbage I've ever read.


[edit on 2005/7/4 by GradyPhilpott]

George Washington Carver is my choice as "Greatest American" what he achieved lifetime is mindboggling. And he seeked niether riches nor fame, living humbly at a university.8/

I put forth the "unknown soldier" as my idea of the greatest American. It typifies that which a politician cannot: foreiting your own life for the greater good. It also honours all that died in all armed conflict and doesnt debase any by choosing an individual.

Originally posted by the_oleneo
That's your side on Reagan and I disagreed with you.

Wonderful! That's what this country is all about.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
He was responsible for the rise to power of the Bush family, because of his decisions regulating the oil economy and his appointments/endorsements.

Originally posted by the_oleneo
Not true. Bush (the senior) ran against him in the primary 1980 election. When Bush was suggested as Reagan's Vice President candidate, Reagan didn't wanted Bush (his VP choice was none-than-other Gerald Ford, the former President!

). Eventually, for the good and unity of the Republican Party at the time, Reagan changed course (on Ford's suggestion) and accept Bush as VP candidate.

That's your proof? Try this one word on for size, "Deregulation." Do I win?

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
He restarted the war on drugs for cryin' out loud! That was possibly the largest economic/social policy mistake of the MILLENIUM! It's cost this country untold suffering and hardship. It's turned this nation into a holding tank for SEASONING ABUSERS and POWDERED PLANT SALESMEN!

Originally posted by the_oleneo
Not true. The war on drug policy was instituted by President Richard Nixon. Read its history: Source

Nonsense, I never said he started the war on drugs, I said he restarted it. His wife was a huge proponent of the war, and fought on the front lines of the media to build support for the criminilzation of 2/3 of Americans.]

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
He bungled the AIDS crisis because he considered it a Gay Plague!

Originally posted by the_oleneo
Not true. According to Wikipedia's bio on Reagan: It should be noted that AIDS was just beginning to be understood at this time. The term AIDS had been coined that year and was not yet widely used--hence the reporter calling it "the gay plague" instead. HIV, the virus which causes AIDS, would not be identified until 1983.)

Perhaps you didn't read the bio thoroughly. tsk-tsk-tsk.

Nonsense. The first journal articles talking about the trend, and the risks going forward, dropped in 1981. From mid-year on it was becoming clear, in the US and overseas, that the 'Gay Plague' was nothing of the sort.

www.avert.org...


Edit: Grady
I maintain it's simply a difference of opinion, think what you like. Now as to this...

I'm not a fan of the war on drugs and it's myriad effects, but the fact is that the "untold suffering and hardship" is the result of drugs, not the laws against them.

No, that's not a fact. The fact is that if drugs weren't made illegal and prosecuted so agressively, about a million Americans be free instead of imprisoned and stamping liscense plates for 7 cents an hour.

When you criminalize garden variety weeds, and shoot at the people bringing them across the border, you've escalated a culinary disagreement into war.

That's an enormous mistake that has caused untold suffering and misery.

If coc aine were pure and readily available (not illegal), overdoses would be rare, and who gives a damn anyway? Their body, their business. Indigenous people have been using coc aine like we use coffee, to get through their 18 hour work days.

The drugs themselves are innocuous. It's our abuse and misuse that makes them dangerous. You don't criminalize hammers because people are idiots and can't hit a nail.



[edit on 4-7-2005 by WyrdeOne]

Just looking at the list of nominees should show anyone that this poll is rather dumb. There are so many people on it that shouldn't have even been considered and so many off it that were truely great americans that the list of nominees is almost amusing. This poll is about like our elections--strictly current popularity and nothing else. I've read several other polls on this question that were conducted amongst scholars & historians that puts Ronald Reagan third or fourth overall.