Abhay IFV from India

Originally posted by chinawhite
have you ever been to tanknet.com the site is full of tankers and engineers. this is for people that have to much time on their hands

yes i have and its full of chit-chat nothing more.

I also ran search on the Arjun's armour peitration figures and it returned nothing.

go read some of those books. very informative

The DRDO has not disclosed anything on the arjun's armour numbers. And those are books on Russian tanks, etc. How do you suppose they get details of the arjun's armour numbers.

yeah as much as what DRDO publishs

Look man, the numbers on that site give the extent to which a bullet penitrates a tanks armour. The lesser it penitrates the better for the tank.

From the numbers it says that the penitration of a bullet against the arjun and the M1 are the least.

That means that these tanks have very good armour.

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
Instead of blatantly concluding that the Kanchan is not a good armour, why dont you provide a few non-homepage links to back your claims. Clearly if the Kanchan was so bad, then there would be hundreds of non-homepage articles like the ones you found saying unplesant things on the arjun.

I find the journalists blatantly and ignorantly saying how good the Kanchan armor is without knowing anything. Like Mirza said, this stuff is top secret, so can I ask you how those guys even know anything about the protection levels the Kanchan armor gives? Obviously, the Kanchan armor was tested behind closed doors, thats why there aren't hundreds of articles about Kanchan. It is only speculation that the journalists do, after all they know nothing about the Kanchan armor except that it is a top secret composite. You try to say that the Kanchan armor is so significantly better than modern day tank armor, but you have no specific details on why it is better. Even saying that tested against other tanks does not give details, they could even be testing it against the T-55's armor

Originally posted by Stealth Spy


The range at which it will hit a normal tank.

short

and how can you decide that ?

because the disscusion in india is which tank to buy

first of all its the T-90S and T-72; and he meant the protection. He referred to the other 2 tanks because this international journalist : Harry B saw the Arjun along side the T-72 and T-90S at an expo. So in his view too its got better protection thanother contemporary tanks.

From personal observation, the build does appear to be much stronger than that of the T-72 or T-90S.

the meaning of what he wrote is it looks sturdier. he never mentioned contemporary tanks only T-72 and T-90 which were also at the show

Its the armour that it talks of not the gun or the mobility.
And it every article that says unplesant things about the mobility speak highly of the armour.

Instead of blatantly concluding that the Kanchan is not a good armour, why dont you provide a few non-homepage links to back your claims. Clearly if the Kanchan was so bad, then there would be hundreds of non-homepage articles like the ones you found saying unplesant things on the arjun.

but when he mentioned the other things as unbeatable he threw he creidtiblity out the window because he diffinetly doesn't know what his talking about

provide links to non-indian webpages filled with ignorant propaganda. i didn't find any articles saying bad things about the arjun you did. and it mention that is was good not better than.

Originally posted by Stealth Spy

yes i have and its full of chit-chat nothing more.

I also ran search on the Arjun's armour peitration figures and it returned nothing.

because they changed server. tanknet was the largest forum for tanks before

The DRDO has not disclosed anything on the arjun's armour numbers. And those are books on Russian tanks, etc. How do you suppose they get details of the arjun's armour numbers.

you can tell from thw weight and how big it is

Look man, the numbers on that site give the extent to which a bullet penitrates a tanks armour. The lesser it penitrates the better for the tank.

From the numbers it says that the penitration of a bullet against the arjun and the M1 are the least.

That means that these tanks have very good armour.

a tank round penerates..

because the M1 is a 1980s tank. the improvents onnly went into the M1A1 later on.

and the reason the arjun has the least is because its no-good

Chinawhite will you provide some non tripod homepage links to back your claims on the Kanchan armour or what ??

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
Chinawhite will you provide some non tripod homepage links to back your claims on the Kanchan armour or what ??

will provide some non-indian claims about the arjun armour

this includes non-DRDO non-hindu times non-some american that said it looked stronger

Look, can YOU provide some non-Indian links to back claims that Kanchan armor is significantly better with some exact details (etc compared to T-90/T-72), and not some journalist. It is not our wish to try and convince you that the Kanchan is inferior, but you should be posting links to try and convince us that Kanchan is in fact better than other modern tank armor.

acig.org is certainly not an indian website.
www.acig.org...


And besides the official Govt. of India website says :

All round protection from anti-tank ammunition is achieved by the newly developed Kanchan armour to a degree much higher than available in present generation tanks.

pib.nic.in...

and moreover the links i gave you earlier are of reputed newspapers.

These are official sources that i have given you and not homepages that you give me back.

Now when a government webiste says something you know that they are serious.

When did the western media get its hands on the arjun to evaluate it ??

If the western media publishes it then it takes it from the official websites.

And the details in the homepage imply that the Arjun has one of the best armour. Think about it yourself.

And since you two specifically wanted a non-indian site and wanted details of the Kanchan being tested here it is. And as far as i know wikipedia is certainly not Indian.

The turret and glacis are heavily armoured and use the "Kanchan" (gold) composite armour, tested and proven against all Anti-tank rounds the Indian Army is expected to face in future battlefields.

en.wikipedia.org...

How do you like that. ?

Now its your turn ........................

[edit on 9-7-2005 by Stealth Spy]

Originally posted by Stealth Spy

And besides the official Govt. of India website says :

All round protection from anti-tank ammunition is achieved by the newly developed Kanchan armour to a degree much higher than available in present generation tanks.

pib.nic.in...

and moreover the links i gave you earlier are of reputed newspapers.

These are official sources that i have given you and not homepages that you give me back.

Now when a government webiste says something you know that they are serious.

When did the western media get its hands on the arjun to evaluate it ??

If the western media publishes it then it takes it from the official websites.

And the details in the homepage imply that the Arjun has one of the best armour. Think about it yourself.

you wouldn't believe any offical chinese reports or ofical israeli reports why is this one different??

i would hardy call hindutimes or india today reputed newspapers. journalist dont have the faintest ideas of what is good. they read the brochure of the thing and report back..


heres from the offical indain paper.

he superior armour defeating capability of the indigenously developed Fin Stabilized Armour Piercing Discarding Sabot ammunition and 120 mm calibre rifled gun give MBT Arjun an edge over contemporary world tanks

how has the arjun got an edge over anything when nearly every other tank in the world has the same thing.

clearly its just propaganda

and this

Brahmos a Supersonic Anti-Ship Cruise Missile developed by Defence Research Development Organisation

its a varient of a russian missile. but they claim its developed byDRDO

[edit on 9-7-2005 by chinawhite]

Originally posted by Stealth Spy

The turret and glacis are heavily armoured and use the "Kanchan" (gold) composite armour, tested and proven against all Anti-tank rounds the Indian Army is expected to face in future battlefields.

en.wikipedia.org...

How do you like that. ?

Now its your turn ........................

[edit on 9-7-2005 by Stealth Spy]

look at the links to where wikipedia got its links.

*commander looks like hindu.com again*

www.hindu.com...
www.hindu.com...
www.hindu.com...
www.123bharat.com...

The design is similar that of the Leopard 2A4 Tank, because of the design consultancy by Krauss Maffei and the involvement of several German firms. This has led some to dub the Arjun as Leopard I, with the I standing for India. Despite the similarities, the differences have pushed the Arjun to its own niche, causing the tank to be deemed "too expensive" and "different". The complimentary tank T-90S of Russian origin, could thus be produced in significantly more numbers.

yeah ok its so indegenious it had to hire germans and it ended up looking almost indentical to a leopard 2

Seems a bit puny to have all that weaponary inside. I know keeping the weight/size down for air delivery reasons is important but this one seems a little out of sorts for Battle Tank consideration.

Dallas

And besides the official Govt. of India website says : All round protection from anti-tank ammunition is achieved by the newly developed Kanchan armour to a degree much higher than available in present generation tanks.

You won't believe OFFICAL Chinese sources, so why should we believe your official Indian sources? Besides, we do not know what armor the Kanchan is tested against.

and moreover the links i gave you earlier are of reputed newspapers.

You call Hindutimes a reputed newspaper? It is INDIAN. What do those journalists do anyway? Read the brochure and offical report and believe it dumbly.

Now when a government webiste says something you know that they are serious.

When did the western media get its hands on the arjun to evaluate it ??
If the western media publishes it then it takes it from the official websites.

So the North Korean government says that they have ICBMs to strike inside the US. That means they are serious, no?

Exactly. And, when did the Indian media ever get to shoot rounds at it? All the Indian media did was go around reading brochures and asking some INDIAN GOVERNMENT reports.

And since you two specifically wanted a non-indian site and wanted details of the Kanchan being tested here it is. And as far as i know wikipedia is certainly not Indian.

The turret and glacis are heavily armoured and use the "Kanchan" (gold) composite armour, tested and proven against all Anti-tank rounds the Indian Army is expected to face in future battlefields.

Indian sources, they copy those and paste inside Wilkipedia. Besides, what anti-tank rounds do the Indian army expect to face? Some detail will be useful, for now it is just too inconclusive.

Originally posted by W4rl0rD

And besides the official Govt. of India website says : All round protection from anti-tank ammunition is achieved by the newly developed Kanchan armour to a degree much higher than available in present generation tanks.

You won't believe OFFICAL Chinese sources, so why should we believe your official Indian sources? Besides, we do not know what armor the Kanchan is tested against.

and moreover the links i gave you earlier are of reputed newspapers.

You call Hindutimes a reputed newspaper? It is INDIAN. What do those journalists do anyway? Read the brochure and offical report and believe it dumbly.

Now when a government webiste says something you know that they are serious.

When did the western media get its hands on the arjun to evaluate it ??
If the western media publishes it then it takes it from the official websites.

So the North Korean government says that they have ICBMs to strike inside the US. That means they are serious, no?

Exactly. And, when did the Indian media ever get to shoot rounds at it? All the Indian media did was go around reading brochures and asking some INDIAN GOVERNMENT reports.

And since you two specifically wanted a non-indian site and wanted details of the Kanchan being tested here it is. And as far as i know wikipedia is certainly not Indian.

The turret and glacis are heavily armoured and use the "Kanchan" (gold) composite armour, tested and proven against all Anti-tank rounds the Indian Army is expected to face in future battlefields.

Indian sources, they copy those and paste inside Wilkipedia. Besides, what anti-tank rounds do the Indian army expect to face? Some detail will be useful, for now it is just too inconclusive.

i think it is very ironical that some people give thumb down to product by giving reason publish in news paper but simply ignoring the fact of plus point made by same paper questioning the news paper's integrity

Indian newspaper has totally freedom to publish news than chines which totally publish under strict vigil communist $ucker.

$ukere blindly ignoring the fact made by us .

it doesn't make indians less unlieky to make propaganda. it doesn't matter which system a country has. its giving undeserved prasie

Originally posted by mirza2003

$ukere blindly ignoring the fact made by us .

what facts. i just see some quotes from indian websites that states the arjun is using the kanchan armour

and stop posting dubble post to give answer.

you qustion the newpaper intregra. and i made it clear.

Originally posted by mirza2003
and stop posting dubble post to give answer.

you qustion the newpaper intregra. and i made it clear.

And they have tested the Arjun? All they do is copy offical sources. Hardly credible at all.

Oh well...believe what you want... I rest my case.

[edit on 10/7/05 by W4rl0rD]

Originally posted by mirza2003
and stop posting dubble post to give answer.
you qustion the newpaper intregra. and i made it clear.

i questioned the papers intergrity. and i want a response from you

you said they have freedom to publish what they want and they choose to publish propaganda.

please go to china and watch their media try to read a chinese newspaper.(in english)

The Chinese Media: More Autonomous and Diverse Within--Limits
www.cia.gov...

stop posting that link again and again...

The India media is more credible than Xinhua or any other news agency..
What they "choose" to publish is their wish..
They are INDIAN afterall..
See... there are indian sources and there are chinese sources..
And then there are western sources...
Bias will ALWAYS be there..

ANd will somone summarize this kanchan bit for me.. TO much of flaming to sift through on this thread!!