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India-France air exercises : Garuda-2 news & pics

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posted on Jul, 4 2005 @ 02:02 AM
The Indian Air Force is set to further augment its power projection skills -- in beyond visual range (BVR) combat and air-to-air refuelling -- in its second joint fighter exercise with the French Air Force. After the success of 'Garuda-I' -- the first-ever joint exercise with fighters in India -- at Gwalior in February 2003, the two air forces will hold 'Garuda-II' in France after skipping a year.

The 15-day exercise, at Istres Air Force Base between June 16 and 30, will see the IAF's Su-30s competing against the French Mirage 2000-5, which is one of the four multi-role fighter aircraft the IAF is considering buying.

''We have had a fruitful exchange with them, and look forward to learning from their experience and employment philosophy,'' he said, adding the French also would have their first exposure to the Su-30 and were awaiting it keenly. During Garuda-I, we realised that while we were flying the same aircraft (Mirage-2000) as the French, they were using it in a somewhat different way and getting good results...this formed a part of our learning process,'' AVM Mukherjee later told UNI.

Read full article......

Pretty cool...exercises with France, US, Israel, South Africa, Singapore but its the Su-30K's and not the Su-30MKI for some reason.

[edit on 4-7-2005 by Stealth Spy]

posted on Jul, 4 2005 @ 02:18 AM

The indian airforce has sent 6 SU-30-K flankers and 2 IL-78 tanker aircraft to france

and the official site :

Cool pics

^^ Indian tanker(Il-78) refuelling French fighters and vice-versa ?
Cool large pic of the Su-30 K :

Selected BEST pics :

More cool pics :

[edit on 4-7-2005 by Stealth Spy]

posted on Jul, 4 2005 @ 02:27 AM
This is a must read :

Su-30MK versus Mirage 2000: Capability Analysis

now i know why there was no need in sending the Su-30 MKI (India's most adavnced warplane with 3D TVC, canards, new aveonics, new radar)

and this may be off topic(and irritating to some), but here is a new article that has surfaced about the USAF's F-15's loss to the IAF in the 2004 and speaks of the USAF's weaknesses that were supposedly exposed.

Here is the article : Cope India 2004 - A "Staged Dogfight"?

[edit on 4-7-2005 by Stealth Spy]

posted on Jul, 4 2005 @ 03:54 AM
Garuda II reportedly focused on Beyond Visual Range (BVR) combat and In-Flight Refueling (IFR) procedures with IAF Sukhoi-30Ks competing against the Adl’A Mirage 2000-5, which incidentally is one of the four multi-role fighter aircraft the IAF is considering buying and is regarded to be the “unofficial frontrunner” due to IAF’s personal fascination for the type. The IAF was keen to learn and absorb French Air Force's ''experience and employment philosophy,'' as during Garuda-I, the French Adl’A utilised their Mirage-2000 in a somewhat different and more effective way and getting optimum results, especially in the BVR arena. The Adl’A possessed the elaborate BVR experience on the skies over Kosovo and Iraq and consequently refined their tactics.

The IAF was surely pleased to “receive” the knowledge albeit losing the BVR engagements initially. However, in Within Visual Range (WVR) combat the IAF overwhelmed the French convincingly throughout sharing an “awesome experience” in the words of French pilots.

The Garuda II exercises were held on the air base 125 "Charles Monier" of Istres and marked the first deployment of Sukhoi-30s in Europe. The French Adl’A deployed some 12 Mirage 2000-5 and Mirage 2000C variants of the squadrons of 2/5 "Island-of-France", 1/2 "Storks" and 3/4 "the Limousin" as combat types plus a KC-135 IFR tanker. A single Mirage 2000N nuclear strike variant was also reportedly involved. The missions carried on and perfected were flights in mixed patrols including missions of interceptions and close combat under the control of a Boeing E-3F ‘Sentry’ Airborne Warning & Control System (AWACS) platform. The BVR armoury of both sides included active-radar homing and infrared “fire & forget” Beyond Visual Range Air-to Air Missiles (BVRAAMS). While the IAF Sukhoi-30s carried the Russian RVV-AE (AA-12 Adder), the Adl’A Mirage 2000s carried the MICA.

About the cross- refueling

Another set of very important procedures during the Garuda II exercises included cross-refueling exercises with Sukhoi-30s receiving fuel from the French KC-135 tanker. In turn a French Mirage 2000 received fuel from the IAF Illyushin-78 IFR tanker. The cross-refueling exercises meant that if France or India sent combat jets to alternate locations it could ask for refueling support from “Allied forces”. Both the IAF Illyushin-78MKI and Adl’A KC-135 IFR tankers use the flexible and versatile drogue-and-hose refueling system, while the C-135 is also equipped with the rigid boom used by the USAF although a miniature “hose unit” can be attached to the rigid boom if felt necessary. The cross-refueling exercises do point out the possible IAF desire to gear itself up to operate as a part of multi-national coalition forces.
Read full article .......

posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 09:50 PM
Gotta love the way the USAF bean counters run the tanker program. They start getting rid of the KC-135s, which we never had enough of ANYWAY, before the replacement program comes online, then screw up the replacement program, so we wind up even shorter when it comes to tanker platforms. I saw at least four or five incidents where fighters broke here, and sat here for a month or longer because they didn't have tanker support to get them to where they were going.

posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 10:40 PM
Although its no surprise that the Su-30K beat the Mirage-2000 5 in WVR, its hard to believe that it got taken out in BVR.

I suppose that the Mirage-2000 5 just won the M-MRCA deal after that performance : check this thread :

posted on Jul, 6 2005 @ 03:54 AM

that the way

posted on Jul, 6 2005 @ 04:12 AM
Well, I wonder what plaens the indians really are going to buy...?

posted on Jul, 6 2005 @ 05:24 AM
maybe they are holding out for a good deal on rafale?

they reall need to get up to sweden and go up against the Gripen

posted on Jul, 6 2005 @ 05:59 AM
RAfale loses out in the aspect that the Indians don't need a carrier craft.. The LCA is already slated for that role..

I think the Mirage -2000 V will win it in the end..
For many reasons..
US jets are out because India fears a Pakistan-like F-16 story.. where the US suddnely puts a stopper on spare parts if certain national interests are infringed..

good find SS... Keep us updated on all the air exercises scheduled this season..

[edit on 6-7-2005 by Daedalus3]

posted on Jul, 6 2005 @ 11:55 AM
Alright here are something to look forward to :

Indo-US joint fighter exercise in November (Cope Thunder 3)

Indian Air Forces frontline Sukhoi, Mirage 2000 and upgraded Mig Bisons would cross swords with the United States Air Force F-16 fighting falcons in the second series of joint fighter exercises in November this year.

The pilots of the two air forces would match their skills in close range as well as beyond visual range combats over Kalikunda airbase in West Bengal. In their first test of wits, the Indian pilots had got the better of their American counterparts in Gwalior last year.

But the contest that time had been between the US F-15's and the Indian SU-30's and Bisons. And the US air force this time are bringing in their Fighting Falcons that too of Batch 50-52's, the latest upgrades series.

According to top IAF officials, 8 to 12 American F-16's would be taking part in the exercise 'Cope Thunder Three' and India, besides the Su-30MKI and SU-30K, would field the Mig-27s, Mirage-2000 and Mig Bisons.

The US officials have been very keen to have a closer look at India's just acquired SU-30 MKI. In the past, New Delhi has spurned invitations for the frontline fighters to visit America for taking part in multi-nation air exercises.

Some news on the concluded India-South africa air exercises

And details of how IAF jaguars smoked the USAF at alaska

Indian Air Forcebombers returned to base today after wargames hosted by the US in Alaska in which they claimed to have penetrated through US air defence twice, it was disclosed at a “hot debriefing” at their base in Ambala this afternoon. The IAF had deployed six Jaguar deep-penetration strike aircraft to Alaska for the fortnight-long Exercise CooperativeCope Thunder 04-01 that ended on July 30.Air force sources said the Jaguars had penetrated throughdefensive cover and scored “direct hits” on ground targets in ranges in Alaska. The war games involved sorties from the Eielson and Elmendorf air force bases. The war games are hosted by the US Pacific Command Air Force.

and this time there were no constraints for the USAF.

This was the second time the USAF got somked after the Gwalior drubbing. But there were many complaints about that.
Here is a balanced view of it in this link : INDIA 1, USAF 0 (now make that 2-0) Just kidding

[edit on 6-7-2005 by Stealth Spy]

posted on Jul, 6 2005 @ 01:56 PM

Large pics of Su-30 in high AoA (MUST SEE)


posted on Jul, 6 2005 @ 02:34 PM
Thanks for another great post. You always take the time to include lots of lovely eyecandy.
India sure has an eclectic mix of eastern and western aircrafts. I wonder if that doesn't complicate the logistics somewhat. It must have come as a surprise to Alaskans to look up and see Indian aircraft "invading".

posted on Jul, 6 2005 @ 06:17 PM
the Mirage is such a beautiful aircraft

posted on Jul, 7 2005 @ 01:50 AM
Oh yes.. ITs a beaut..
I had this one amasingly cool pic here on ATS when I was arguing with chinawhite abt the role of the Mirage-2000.. It was truly a "sexy" pic..
I'll see if Ican find it.. I think its on the Aircraft forum only..

Another point to ponder.. At a distance the markings of the IAF and French AF look very similar.. esp. when you can't make out the colours!!

posted on Jul, 7 2005 @ 02:30 AM

Originally posted by Daedalus3

I had this one amasingly cool pic here on ATS when I was arguing with chinawhite abt the role of the Mirage-2000.

i never argued with you about the mirage-2000

posted on Jul, 8 2005 @ 12:23 PM
Yeah you did.. maybe you could help me find that pic..
IT was somewhere in between the arunachal and MiG21 bison arguements..


posted on Jul, 8 2005 @ 01:51 PM
Great pics Stealth Spy. Those SU-30's look really nice.

posted on Jul, 8 2005 @ 02:09 PM
The Su-30K only has an old doppler radar and old aveonics. No wonder it lost in BVR.

India should have taken its Su-30 MKI with its 5th gen phased array radar + 3 D thrust vector + new aveonics + canards + best of French, Israeli, Indian components. Then it would have dominated the BVR encounters too.

GREAT pic of the MKI :


[edit on 8-7-2005 by Stealth Spy]

posted on Jul, 8 2005 @ 02:13 PM
My favourite of the lot was the Il-78 MKI refueler !

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