Very good find.

It's still early in the hybrid game to know if it's a doomed undertaking though. Like the article said, if gas goes over $3.00 in the US and stays there then it will begin to make sense, if it drops below $1.50 then hybrids start to lose their advantage.

Eventually it will go over $3.00 per gallon, I dont think the price will go down much.

[edit on 5-7-2005 by BigPimpin]

If gas goes to $3 or more per gallon, I won't be happy about it but it will be about the same price I paid when I was in college back in the 80's when you factor in inflation. However, I now get 2 to 3 times better gas mileage in the car I have now versus the car I had back then. So, I still won't be spending as much money on gas. I hope at least. My real concern is very high home heating costs via natural gas. I'm not sure if it's cheaper to use a bunch of space heaters running off electricity or just use the gas.

Well what about

'hydrogen' ??

I thought all they did was release water?

Is there anything wrong with them?

I'm thinking of getting one. I feel bad driving the dodge truck cuz I know what is happening to the island of tuvalu because of bad choices and over use...

yes, while I was gone I turned into a treehugger.. but for good reason.

Originally posted by tbare
Well what about

'hydrogen' ??

I thought all they did was release water?

Is there anything wrong with them?

With current technology the only way to create hydrogen requires large amounts of energy usually derived from fossil fuels. Hopefully future technology will find a way around this.

In 10-20 years every car is going to be a Hybrid in one way or another, it's just the way the sector is going and its a crying shame that Detroit is ignoring this trend.

Originally posted by sardion2000
In 10-20 years every car is going to be a Hybrid in one way or another, it's just the way the sector is going and its a crying shame that Detroit is ignoring this trend.

Why do you say Detroit?

The private sector is going to be the one ultimately responsible for the way these cars will be presented... It's up them, not a city. However, Detroit and other cities and states/provinces should help in glamourization (dont care if its not a word) of these earth friendly and tuvalu friendly vehicles.

If I was govenor of michigan i would allow a tax write write off or something benefical to the consumers who voluntarily make good choices to help out with the climate change problem.

Because it's a real deal no matter what the dis information guys who are hired by the gas companies say.

This would be a clear indictator that switching to a vehicle that isn't so insane to run would be the smart thing to do.

I know I can't talk because I drive a gas pig, but I know that is going to have to change... and soon. I have a year lease... hopefully I won't have to drive it that much.

we also have a mini which is only 20 bucks to fill and it lasts a long time.

The new honda civics get a good 40-45 miles per gallon and the hydrogen cells just cost to much to produce vastly. A hydrogen car was said to cost over a hundred thousand.

I would like to interject when the article says that these hybrids aren't measureing up to there advertised mpg. In places like california and the midwest where there are vast expanses of road and freeways it is hard to keep your car under 30 mph... I hear thats the cutoff point at where the car stops relying only on electric and reverts to both the gas and electric motors to drive the car... so driving on the freeway would kind of stifle the usefulness of the hybrid hence the lesser highway mileage on certain hybrids like the prius... however in places like New York or the Japanese cities which it was designed to operate in, the bumper to bumper traffic keeps the cars electric motor humming from the constant slow speeds and frequent braking (braking is what charges the batteries)... I mean you could drive a hybrid but if your doing 90 on the freeway it kinda kills the whole point... As far as hydrogen powered cars go, I read in a thread somewhere that each fuel cell uses too much platinum in the current state to ever become practicle for mass production... And Detroit... don't even get me started on Detroit... The ford explorer hybrid does less mileage than my scion xb... and my xb is almost as spacious on the inside as the ford but just a slitely smaller boot... and less ground clearance of course but hey how many soccer moms actually take their explorers offroad... and hybrid trucks? Well extra torque from an electric motor might help but like the article said it's not something they would do for the environment...
I can't be suprised at detroits inability to compete with japanese and european companies when it comes to this field... they've been buddies with the oil business for too long...too much of their money is spent on trying to sell their cars cheap (GM employee discount) and heavy marketing of useless vehicles like the H2 hummer ....and the H3? PUHLEEEEZ... GM is a company that should have gone under a long time ago if it wasn't for uncle sam's defense contracts... They just aren't fit to make passenger vehicles and national pride blinds most americans from this fact... the more gas you guzzle the more money goes to terrorists... remember we get alot of oil from the Saudis...

[edit on 9-7-2005 by OYG]

I've always thought of hydrogen as a way to store energy and not a source of energy. After all, you can't drill a hole and pump out pure hydrogen, it's always bonded to something else. Breaking that bond requires energy.

I just don't buy the propaganda that this is the clean fuel of the future. Sure your tailpipe is only dripping water, but at what cost? If the energy to purify hydrogen comes from a coal fired power plant the loss/gain ratio looks the same as far as the environment is concerned.

And if I'm not mistaken, most hydrogen produced today is coming from natural gas.

I may be totally off on this and need to do a bit more reading, but I just don't see any huge advantage to hydrogen.

Originally posted by OYG

I can't be suprised at detroits inability to compete with japanese and european companies when it comes to this field... they've been buddies with the oil business for too long...too much of their money is spent on trying to sell their cars cheap (GM employee discount) and heavy marketing of useless vehicles like the H2 hummer ....and the H3? PUHLEEEEZ... GM is a company that should have gone under a long time ago if it wasn't for uncle sam's defense contracts... They just aren't fit to make passenger vehicles and national pride blinds most americans from this fact... the more gas you guzzle the more money goes to terrorists... remember we get alot of oil from the Saudis...

If you remember GM stocks were labelled junk status, thats why they are offering the discount. Their designs just aren't evolving the way dodge and japanese cars are.

My father works at GM in canada and he says they are probably going to be laying off another 30 000 next year and eventually he says they want to get out the 'manufacturing sector' and just sell cars.

That's why they aren't really doing anything. Sure their headquarters are in Detroit, but thats cuz they got the property dirt cheap. that city is in a big financial crisis, their mayor in inept, and well, GM and Ford just can't keep up.

I don't know what they have to do with hybrids, just the mere mention of them on this thread is alittle bit puzzling to me.


Back on the hybrid topic though, nyc from what you posted is a good place to purchase one due to the bumper to bumper traffic, but for the midwest, ie/detroit, you have alot of suburbanites driving 40 mins on i75 everymorning to get into detroit, and it is a busy stretch of highway, i don't know what vehicles they can switch too but something needs to be done because you have alot of truck owners who like their hemi's, and from a graph I saw, detroit is on the list of most populated cities in the country.
i'll find a link.. but it's sickening.