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Tide Turning on al-Qa'eda In Iraq?

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posted on Jul, 3 2005 @ 11:26 PM
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Apparently in some areas of the country, yes.
Ran across this interesting article, that no doubt will hardly be seen on ABC, NBC, CBS, truthout, indymedia, etc., etc.

Perhaps we are seeing what the difference is between "insurgents" and jihadist "terrorists"? Time will only tell...



American troops on the Syrian border are enjoying a battle they have long waited to see - a clash between foreign al-Qa'eda fighters and Iraqi insurgents.

Tribal leaders in Husaybah are attacking followers of Abu Musab Zarqawi, the Jordanian-born terrorist who established the town as an entry point for al-Qa'eda jihadists being smuggled into the country.


And went on to mention:


Following al-Qa'eda's seizure of the main buildings a number of residents fled. Arkan Salim, 56, who left with his wife and four children, said: "We thought they were patriotic. Now we discovered that they are sick and crazy.

"They interfered in everything, even how we raise our children. They turned the city into hell, and we cannot live in it anymore."

US delight as Iraqi rebels turn their guns on al-Qa'eda


No matter how the news is slanted, what this particular piece mentions and what it asserts, has very real implications for al-Qa'eda in Iraq.







seekerof

[edit on 3-7-2005 by Seekerof]




posted on Jul, 3 2005 @ 11:40 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
Perhaps we are seeing what the difference is between "insurgents" and jihadist "terrorists"? Time will only tell...


I never understood the media's use of the word insurgent. Insurgent is synonymous with the word rebel. I suppose if they were called rebels all the time people then might start cheering for them. I bet if 50 random people were asked what an insurgent is 40 of them wouldn't know. At any rate maybe after this we will see a change in terminology.

I do wish though instead of hearing "insurgents killed 40 people today at a police training facility" we would actually hear the groups name. After all, anyone is an insurgent if they go against authority.



posted on Jul, 4 2005 @ 12:22 AM
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Originally posted by Umbrax

Originally posted by Seekerof
Perhaps we are seeing what the difference is between "insurgents" and jihadist "terrorists"? Time will only tell...


I never understood the media's use of the word insurgent. Insurgent is synonymous with the word rebel. I suppose if they were called rebels all the time people then might start cheering for them. I bet if 50 random people were asked what an insurgent is 40 of them wouldn't know. At any rate maybe after this we will see a change in terminology.

I do wish though instead of hearing "insurgents killed 40 people today at a police training facility" we would actually hear the groups name. After all, anyone is an insurgent if they go against authority.

Thanks for the highly relevant post Umbrax...changed my perspective on the whole war. I agree, hearing a name associated with the killing of 40 people would change EVERYTHING!



Seekerof, nice post. I agree with your assesment that this is a story very unlikely to make it on any of the 'mainstream' media outlets, perhaps maybe that weirdo Fox News. That in itself should raise a lot of questions in the minds of Americans. Why are we only shown one side of the story--that being the current death count and today's bad news from Iraq.

Both groups are responsible for specifically targeting innocent Iraqi men, women and children, but it is nice to see that a line is being drawn. Hopefully this will bring the average Iraqi to think more about the situation with these people and perhaps even lead to a more vocal stand.



posted on Jul, 4 2005 @ 12:49 AM
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Its interesting and not all that surprising. I am just finishing a book titled 'Ghost Wars" that deals with US intervention in Afganistan from the Soviet invasion to the rise of the Taliban In it:

Many Afgan warlords and like have come to the same conclution that the Jihadists (Which is an incorrect interpretation of what the Quran actually says mind you) are interested in nothing but thier narrow world view and will create as much chaos and havoc as possible.

Most of the attacks against Iraqi policemen, suicide bombers, etc are no doubt foreign fighters etc.


Good Find


[edit on 7/4/05 by FredT]



posted on Jul, 4 2005 @ 01:21 AM
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When the body count goes down, and stays down, then I will be able to imagine this news is anything but a flash in the pan hope about the occupation.



posted on Jul, 4 2005 @ 01:36 AM
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With the tactic that the foreign fighters are using its no surprise the local people are rising up against them. They do more harm to the Iraqis then they do to the US, they kill way more Iraqis then US soldiers.



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 11:32 PM
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A further update to this is mentioned in a WashingtonPost.com article:


Rising up against insurgent leader Abu Musab Zarqawi, Iraqi Sunni Muslims in Ramadi fought with grenade launchers and automatic weapons Saturday to defend their Shiite neighbors against a bid to drive them from the western city, Sunni leaders and Shiite residents said. The fighting came as the U.S. military announced the deaths of six American soldiers.

Dozens of Sunni members of the Dulaimi tribe established cordons around Shiite homes, and Sunni men battled followers of Zarqawi, a Jordanian, for an hour Saturday morning. The clashes killed five of Zarqawi's guerrillas and two tribal fighters, residents and hospital workers said. Zarqawi loyalists pulled out of two contested neighborhoods in pickup trucks stripped of license plates, witnesses said.


Interesting, no?
Continues on with:


The leaders of four of Iraq's Sunni tribes had rallied their fighters in response to warnings posted in mosques by followers of Zarqawi. The postings ordered Ramadi's roughly 3,000 Shiites to leave the city of more than 200,000 in the area called the Sunni Triangle. The order to leave within 48 hours came in retaliation for alleged expulsions by Shiite militias of Sunnis living in predominantly Shiite southern Iraq.

"We have had enough of his nonsense," said Sheik Ahmad Khanjar, leader of the Albu Ali clan, referring to Zarqawi. "We don't accept that a non-Iraqi should try to enforce his control over Iraqis, regardless of their sect -- whether Sunnis, Shiites, Arabs or Kurds.''

Page One of Article

On Page two is mentioned:


The fighting in Ramadi suggested a potentially serious threat to Zarqawi's group, al Qaeda in Iraq, which is made up of Sunni extremists from inside and outside Iraq. The insurgency has increasingly targeted Shiite civilians along with U.S. and Iraqi forces, particularly with grisly suicide bombings that have killed scores of Shiites at a time. Zarqawi's followers see Shiites as rivals for power and as apostates within the broader Islamic faith.

Masked men distributed leaflets that declared the city's tribes would fight "Zarqawi's attempt to turn Ramadi into a second Fallujah," referring to the nearby city that U.S. forces wrested from insurgent control in November. Statements posted on walls declared in the name of the Iraqi-led Mohammed's Army group that "Zarqawi has lost his direction" and strayed "from the line of true resistance against the occupation."


Further mentioning:


Separately Saturday, Zarqawi's movement posted statements in Ramadi pledging to kill Sunni clerics in the west for urging Sunnis to take part in the country's next elections.

"We, al Qaeda in Iraq, announce that we will apply the religious punishment for apostasy upon whoever calls for creation of the constitution. You, preacher at the podium of prophecy, be a speaker of truth, doer of good and rallier for the rule of sharia," or Islamic law, the statement said.

Page Two: Iraqi Sunnis Battle To Defend Shiites

What is interesting to note here is that Zarqawi's and Al-Qaeda's plan is create/agitate a civil war between the Shi'ites and Sunnis, which is apparently not working as intended. The continued targeting of Iraqis, be they civilain or Iraqi security forces by Zarqawi or Al-Qaeda forces, is growing tiresome among the Sunni and Shi'ite tribes. As the Iraqi constitution draws near and Sunni and Shi'ite clerics openly decree their acceptance of it, Zarqawi and Al-Qaeda's typical response is to threaten and intimidate with violence.

In line with the 'a' typical Zarqawi and Al-Qaeda thinking and methodology, all who oppose them or their directives are seen and classed as infidels, this would include the Sunni and Shi'ite populace. This will be their undoing in the end, when all is said and done.





seekerof



posted on Aug, 14 2005 @ 11:55 PM
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What a great find! Thanks

Its time for the "Rest of the Story"


Can you hear the Tulipwalkers crying?




posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 12:01 AM
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If its true, well, it good news.

Finally ppl in Iraq are willing to draw to the conclusion that,

"If you want to fight, fight it yourself, and not rely on "Foregin supported talents", which screws up your ideals and replace it with theirs"



posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 12:16 AM
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Great story,

Finally i feel the general population will see the difference between terrorist and insurgant. For too long people have painted the two with the same brush.

The terrorists in Iraq are a small minority who are out to create discord and chaos to undermine the US invasion by killing innocent Iraqis. Although i disagree with the war and its false pretenses, i condemn the killing of innocent people no matter what the cause is (and yes that includes if the cause is to topple Saddam).

The insurgents however target mainly the US and coalition forces and are rebelling against the puppet government and the occupational forces. Like the terrorists, they are fighting against the invasion, but unlike the terrorists they are not out to cause a split and discord in Iraq. Their targets are military or political, which in my eyes gives them much more credibility. The insurgents, i feel, can be likened to the French Resistance in WWII.

Hopefully this sort of news can make people see the difference between those with a valid means of acheiving their cause.



posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 12:24 AM
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Great post. Let's hope this attitude grows. Should make it easier to separate the jihadists from the "insurgents." Time will tell.

-koji K.



posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 01:24 AM
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Seems bizarre to me that proof that the chaos in Iraq has degenerated into Civil War is greeted as though it's good news.

The title of this thread suggests that Al Qaeda is starting to lose the war. I've not seen evidence of that.

There are great swathes of Iraq which US troops dare not go. They are under the control of insurgents and the resistance.

It shows the desperation of those who still maintain invading Iraq was a good idea when they are simply relieved that muslims are killing other muslims as well as killing US troops.

But then for the apologists for this illegal war there is no more ground to give. They must continue to defend the decision and even put a gloss on bad news.

As for the quote by Arkan Salim, 56, who left with his wife and four children, and said: "We thought they were patriotic. Now we discovered that they are sick and crazy.

Can we trust such quotes these days or is this another example of recycled material from the US military propaganda wing.

PS. Tip for all Americans. Don't believe any quotes supplied by officials in which "ordinary" Iraqi people declare their love for you.

[edit on 15-8-2005 by John bull 1]



posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 05:37 PM
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Hey John Bull 1, I'd believe anything that came out of those Iraqis mouths, whom you assert are reciting nothing but US military propaganda, than anything that remotely spews forth from non-Iraqis, like George "The War on Terrorism's Lord Haw Haw" Galloway and his take of how Iraq is this and that. Bet.




PS. Tip for all Americans. Don't believe any quotes supplied by officials in which "ordinary" Iraqi people declare their love for you.

But its ok if it Iraqis declaring their love for you British, eh?
A derogatory comment deserves nothing but one in return.






seekerof

[edit on 15-8-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Aug, 15 2005 @ 08:54 PM
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Originally posted by John bull 1Seems bizarre to me that proof that the chaos in Iraq has degenerated into Civil War is greeted as though it's good news.


Not at all, its just like when the elections were held, many braved to actually vote and the country needs to take matters into their own hands. This is a good sign.



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 07:56 PM
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More from Mohammed at IraqTheModel, concerning the Sunnis and their efforts against Al-Qaeda in Iraq:


Al-Qaeda is becoming even more aggressive toward Iraq as a whole and a few dyas ago Sunni leaders were added to Al-Qaeda's hit-list.
I think this reflects a lot of frustration among the jihadists leaders after armed clashes between Sunni tribes and jihadi fighters and the active Sunnis participation in the constitution writing process…now Zarqawi is talking about slitting throats again.

The response from the Sunni clerics didn't take a long time to come and ironically that response came from no less than Fallujah itself.



The Fallujah scholars council represented by its head Hamza Al-Eisawi the preacher in Al-Wahda mosque released an announcement that urged Fallujans to take their role in the referendum. The cleric explained that this is one of their duties as clerics to give advice to the people and he added that the fatwa will be read in all of the city's mosques.
It's worth mentioning that four voters registration offices have been designated in the city and the people have decided to take the responsibility of protecting these offices without interference from the multinational forces. At the same time, Fallujah is witnessing daily lectures and conferences where thinkers and leaders from the Islamic party are educating the people about the importance of participation in the referendum.

Abdul Hameed Jadoo the preacher at Al-Furqan mosque called the people to have their names registered in the offices saying that "the constitution is going to prove our identity as Iraqis"
Abbas Kareem, a former naval officer from Fallujah said "If we se a fair and balanced draft of the constitution then we're certainly going to accept it"....



Mohammed further indicated:


Back to the main topic of this post;last week Zarqawi threatened to bomb, kill and behead all those who dare to show up for the referendum.
Do I need to remind Zarqawi of his previous threats and how Iraqi's responded to these threats?
In an earlier message of hatred he claimed to be defending the Sunni from the Sheat and now he's declaring all Iraqis are his enemies.

The Sunni respond to Al-Qaeda's threats...

News Flash to distractors and Al-Qaeda:
Never, never underestimate the desire and strength of humanity and it's quest for a better quality of life, whether they be the Sunnis, Shi'ites, or Kurds in Iraq....






seekerof



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 08:01 PM
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Do I need to remind Zarqawi of his previous threats and how Iraqi's responded to these threats?


I think in both Afghanistan and Iraq, the people showed how they feel by actually voting under the circumstances at hand.

How many would do that here?


And one thing that NO ONE one the Left has even mentioned, they always talk about all the civilian deaths and etc, but no one talks about the lives that were saved with the REMOVAL of Saddam. SO I would take that as meaning they condoned the actions of that man.



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 08:04 PM
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wow...

that long awaited fight was something that i would like to see...

i thought these guys worked together!?!?!?





posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 08:17 PM
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"We thought they were patriotic. Now we discovered that they are sick and crazy.

"They interfered in everything, even how we raise our children. They turned the city into hell, and we cannot live in it anymore."

Now turn to america, britain, and the coalition.



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 08:20 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan

"We thought they were patriotic. Now we discovered that they are sick and crazy.

"They interfered in everything, even how we raise our children. They turned the city into hell, and we cannot live in it anymore."

Now turn to america, britain, and the coalition.


As I have said many times before, Iraq was the best chance at success in all the Middle East, if it works, we will have a very GOOD ally for many years to come.



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 08:20 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger
And one thing that NO ONE one the Left has even mentioned, they always talk about all the civilian deaths and etc, but no one talks about the lives that were saved with the REMOVAL of Saddam. SO I would take that as meaning they condoned the actions of that man.


Keep driving that wedge it will be the downfall of your Nation. How can we know how many people would have lived or died under Saddam do we have a machine that can look into alternate realities to compare? lol I like how as more and more people are turning against the war you guys on the right side of the tracks seem to be getting more and more desperate, grasping at straws and such.




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