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LDS Criticizers

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posted on Jun, 30 2005 @ 11:18 PM
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Why are so many people so urgent to criticize the mormon religion. Most people claim and prove it as a negative thing, because they believe that the only reason the faith is becoming much more vast is because the leaders force the members to go on a 2-year mission to spread the faith, but if people actually knew what was going on, they'd know that the people who serve the missions actually choose to go on them...they are not forced...and also many people refer to the mormons as a cult, but as I understand it, the word cult actually refers to a group of people with a certain togetherness all having the same beliefs...so if this is so..then I guess people could call all religions cults, based on their beliefs..the word "cult" has since its past has created a negative view of its definition as a type of "bad" group, but in actuality it isn't, it is just the people who have the problem...




posted on Jun, 30 2005 @ 11:22 PM
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Most of the people that are "offended" are done so in their ignorance (meaning non-knowledge) of the LDS Church. Others have been offended by the Church, or by LDS Church members in the past, thus grouping everyone into the same category. I live in Northeast Tennessee, so I've heard quite a bit of negative "feedback" (in quotation marks, because it is only one-sided) from people in this area. There are some people that have legitimate claims, some of which are of isolated cases, while others make claims (which may or may not be true) which I can neither prove nor disprove. But for the most part, those "offended" are done so in their ignorance.

Much the same way that people are offended by other cultures such as Muslims, or the way that many people have been offended by "people of color" in the past. Ignorance is to blame for the majority of it, but isn't that what ATS is all about denying? I've noticed quite a few close-minded people here on ATS (regular posters are usually more inclined to be open-minded), isn't that hypocritical? Anyways, I do not plan on going on a mission, nor do I try to convert anyone. If someone has questions, they know where to find me. Otherwise, I live my life like I would otherwise...



posted on Jun, 30 2005 @ 11:29 PM
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It's a religion that's pretty well proven to be completely false through documentation surrounding its inception, such as the Book of Abraham and other texts.

I know many think all religions are false, but this stands out by being completely able to be truly proven a total concoction by a fraud and charlatan.



posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 12:31 AM
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Prove to me it is false.......



posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 12:34 AM
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Well, un like other religions it is not based in extremely old texts, and it is very new...



posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 12:37 AM
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If you were to read information on where the Book of Mormon came from..you would find that the word
"Latter-Day-Saints" is used to refer to the members and believers of this book...the book was created to be used in these times of adultery, murder, disbelief, and guidance...it was made for the purpose of new times...when the Old Testament was first published, many people did not believe in it...but as time passed, they did....and people may not right now believe in teh Book Of Mormon, but as history repeats itself, they soon will....and be yearning to learn of its contents...



posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 01:23 AM
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LDS is only interesting if done the old fashioned way. Polygamy was the only thing it had to offer as an alternative to orthodox religions- oh, and interesting Science Fiction (When We All Hie To Kolob...).

Man, if Joe Smith was around today leading packs of horn dog women all over the desert, I'd join in a minute. Not that I'd believe a word he had to say- belief is irrelevant when you get permission to lead the life of Riley.

Without polygamy (as it is today) LDS is nothing but control freaks spewing bunkum.

Just one Indian's opinion.



posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 01:44 AM
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what nation are you form chakotay? many native americans (or didi you mean INDIA?) embrace the LDS religion because of the history it tells of their ancestors long ago.

others still have difficulty abolishing some of their rituals and culture for a new religion.

anyways, the LDS religion is just as legit as all the others, if not more.



posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 01:51 AM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77
It's a religion that's pretty well proven to be completely false through documentation surrounding its inception, such as the Book of Abraham and other texts.

I know many think all religions are false, but this stands out by being completely able to be truly proven a total concoction by a fraud and charlatan.


I've read quite a bit of Mormon history, both LDS sources and others, and I am not aware of any conclusive proof that the book of abraham is false. Granted, it cannot be proven true either, with what we have.

I'm taking a stab in the dark here, but I think that what djohnsto is probably thinking of is the re-discovery of a few of the 'Joseph Smith papyri' in the 1960s, that had been thought destroyed but were in reality buried in some museum's storage room for decades. (makes you wonder what else might be kicking around in some old museums
) The recovered fragments turned out to be pieces from an Egyptian funerary document called the Book of Breathings. (basically a condensed version of the famous Book of the Dead) There were also fragments of a couple of the facsimiles that appear in the book of abraham.

It should be emphasized that only a portion of the papyri were located in the 1960s; most of them are still lost and presumed destroyed. It is entirely possible (however likely or unlikely) that the lost portions did indeed have the text to the book of abraham on it; it's also possible that it didn't. As a mormon myself, it's no surprise that my opinion is that the lost papyri did have the book of abraham on them.

There are a couple of good books to read on the subject. H. Donl Peterson has written a few; he is a good authority on the subject. There was one book he wrote in the last couple of years (I forgot the name now) that has a good history of the origins of the book of abraham. The book was navy blue with white lettering on it, but I forgot the title, and don't have it handy, since I had borrowed it from my grandma.



posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 02:20 AM
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Why are so many people so urgent to criticize the mormon religion.


This I'm not really sure about. In the years of early mormonism, there were fears of things like the possibility of mormon block voting, concerns over polygamy (which wasn't illegal, yet), concern over a new religion that presented some competition for other faiths, and economic reasons; the early LDS would buy/sell almost exclusively with one another, and large communities of LDS meant that commodities like liquor were hard to come by in the area.

Since the early LDS usually settled together in regions, forming large communities in new areas almost overnight, this tended to worry the residents; they had no idea what to expect. The mormons would also try to change things in the communities, like ban alcohol or whorehouses or gambling establishments (all things mormons find offensive), and some people didn't like that, especially when the mormons were usually the newcomers in an area. Also, in politics, naturally, the mormons tended to vote for people who were either mormons or else friendly to mormons, and this bothered those who weren't.

Some of these reasons may continue to cause criticism of the mormon church today, but except for a few regions like utah, idaho, and southern alberta, there aren't that many places where mormons have enough numbers per capita to have much influence, so I don't think that's much of an issue, anymore.


the leaders force the members to go on a 2-year mission to spread the faith


Not so. The leaders DO strongly encourage people to go on missions, especially the men, but nothing forces them to, although there can be a strong social pressure to go. I myself never went on a mission, though I am still an active mormon. When I was in the 19-21 year old range, I had some people that would bug me, asking stuff like "when are you going?" but now that I'm 23, I think it's fairly obvious that I'm not. Also, at 23, people who don't know me very well often assume I've gone and come back already, so they usually don't ask.


and also many people refer to the mormons as a cult


Yes, a lot of people do. Whether this is accurate or not depends on how you define a 'cult', since many people define it differently. One definition is that a cult is simply any religion, so if you follow that, then obviously mormons, catholics, muslims, buddhists, and all the rest are cults. A cult can also be a religion that is 'generally considered to be extremist or false' (www.dictionary.com). I'm quite certain mormons aren't considered extremist, and I don't think they are 'generally considered false'; although I think more people believe mormonism false than, say, catholicism, for example, I don't think it's anywhere near 'generally considered false'. Another definition for cult is 'an interest followed with exaggerated zeal' (www.dictionary.com) and if you apply that to the LDS, I think that is accurate. Most active LDS are very serious about their religion, and it is often a central focus in their lives. The other definition that I have seen some people use basically comes down to cult=non-catholic, but the only people I see using that definition use it to bash all sorts of religions, not just LDS.

Ok, people are probably tired of seeing another long-winded dragonsdemesne mormon post, so I'll end here for now. I'll answer any other questions you have, but due to my summer employment, it may take a few days before I see them, so be patient



posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 06:38 AM
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I have some unanswered questions about Mormonism in this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I find it more comprehensive of a discussion.

Pray, train, study,
God bless.



posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 07:02 AM
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Originally posted by prepared4thefuture
Why are so many people so urgent to criticize the mormon religion.


I don't believe what the LDS believe, however let me say that it has
been my online experience that the LDS (mormons) are the NICEST
people to speak with and to have conversations with in chat rooms.
I'd rather be discussing religion with a chatroom full of LDS
than just about any other group. Does that mean I'm a pro-bigot
of LDS people? Yep. Guess so.

(is that a real thing?? pro-bigot??
)



posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 07:08 AM
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Originally posted by prepared4thefuture
Prove to me it is false.......


Prove to me that it is real. Ive noticed that you have 2 threads posted with the same title. Is this some sort of misplaced 'mission" that you are undertaking to impress some elders?



[edit on 7/1/05 by FredT]



posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 07:27 AM
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Originally posted by FredT
Prove to me that it is real. Ive noticed that you have 2 threads posted with the smae title. Is this some sort of misplaced 'mission" that you are undertaking to impress some elders?


Ooh! A conspiracy. You don't say!



posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 07:38 AM
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It's a religion that's pretty well proven to be completely false through documentation surrounding its inception, such as the Book of Abraham and other texts.


My, my, my-citing one thing that can hardly be proved to prove another false?



posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 07:59 AM
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I think Mormonism is is pretty far out on the fringe, but not nearly as far as the JW's, or the Scientologists. The origins of the LDS belief system is a comical tale of felons on the run and mysteriously found-then-lost magical knick-knacks that revealed all truths. Yeah, riiight.

That being said, I have met many Mormons and consider them fine people. They seem to be very level-headed, reserved, and courteous. Althought the thought of my child marrying a Mormon would make me cringe, I would have no problem living next to one, having a Mormon church in my neighborhood, or voting for one to represent me (which I have).



posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 08:16 AM
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Originally posted by Pyros Althought the thought of my child marrying a Mormon would make me cringe


Aren't Mormons not permitted to marry outside of the church? Just clarifying, I don't know. I think it's brought up on that link I cited above.

[edit on 1-7-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 08:20 AM
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I think you do, but even if its not written in stone, can you imagine the pressure from the family???

Here is an interesting site for those recovering from being a Mormon
www.exmormon.org...



posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 08:46 AM
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This page might provide some interesting insight;

And excerpt from another site follows:

"When Mormon apologists did not accept George Lawrence's findings, Mormon scholar Stanley P. Kimball was able "to secure permission from the Chicago Historical Society for the recommended destructive tests."

After scientists completed the chemical and electrical tests, Stanley B. Kimball, writing in the Mormon periodical Ensign, admitted that the Kinderhook plates were a hoax:

"A recent electronic and chemical analysis of a metal plate . . . brought in 1843 to the Prophet Joseph Smith . . . appears to solve a previously unanswered question in Church History, helping to further evidence that the plate is what its producers later said it was--a nineteenth-century attempt to lure Joseph Smith into making a translation of ancient-looking characters that had been etched into the plates. . . . As a result of these tests, we concluded that the plate . . . is not of ancient origin . . . we concluded that the plate was made from a true brass alloy (copper and zinc) typical of the mid-nineteenth century; whereas the 'brass' of ancient times was actually bronze, an alloy of copper and tin." (Ensign, August 1981, pp. 66-70)."

Here we have a Mormon scholar concluding that the plates were not ancient in nature.

More information here and even more, here

Obviously the sources may be considered less than objective; the results of the testing however, is pretty conclusive.

Read, study, and use liberal helpings of common sense.



posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 01:21 PM
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don't mormons believe jesus appeared in central or morth america ?








 
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