Aliens as Paranormal Beings: My experiences

When I first registered with ATS I wrote up my own 'close encounter' experience.

Now, years later, I think that I should share another experience that, though not an 'abduction', was apparently both real AND a dream.

To be short, the night before the Columbia disaster I had a very intense, very realistic dream where I was floating above the shuttle Columbia with an extraterrestrial in what appeared to be an object with a transparent, round hull. The being looked me in the eye and then jestered down towards the shuttle... and began to emphatically move his hand back and forth as if to say 'see what I am pointing at?'

Then, without words, he (or it) made me feel that something bad was about to happen to the shuttle and that I was being told this, ahead of time, so that I would believe in something else much later on.

Now... years later... I've come to believe that this was a 'real' experience but that it was also in my mind... simply because the 'ET's are just as likely to be paranormal or psychically projected beings as they are to be alien in an otherworldly sense. In other words... I think that what we think of as 'ET's exist in an objective sense but that we can experience them in a purely paranormal or psychic way.

Why have I shifted to this 'mental' school of thought? Because there is no way that I could have been abducted in the timeframe involved (i had stayed up late).

Anyways... I felt like I had to share this in the wake of all the PY stuff. To be honest, I think that he may be in contact with ETs but that he is possibly misinterpreting what they are saying (or that he has 'run away' with a few ideas and gone overboard).

This was the hardest post I've ever had to write.

[edit on 30-6-2005 by onlyinmydreams]

I am standing in line right behind you...onlyinmydreams.

I COMPLETELY believe that ~some~ of the Aliens are of a VERY paranormal nature. I think what we sometimes see as ghosts are them...maybe THEY are the ones whos voices we may hear out of nowhere......I think they DO talk to us and comunicate to us through our DREAMS.......

Ya ya ya call me wacky.......but I am right in line here......just wait till some of the other members see this and join us in our line...I believe it will be a LONG one indeed.
Even if they wont admit to it on this thread....

[edit on 30-6-2005 by theRiverGoddess]

So you were given a prediction as to the fate of the Space Shuttle Columbia? Interesting, but it is odd that they would let you, somebody who has no public visibility, see this. Letting one human who doesn't communicate with other humans on a large basis (other than semi-anonymously on the internet) doesn't seem to serve much purpose. Your assumption that this ET was letting you know this to get you to believe a future prediction without question sounds like a good theory, but again, you don't seem to have much public visibility.

So what good is it to tell a human like you this information? Unless there is some type of mass effort in which you are a but a single cog in a future information distribution scheme. Its sort of like a Chicken Little scenario. Who exactly is going to believe somebody of your stature? Though since our governments are engaged in what appears to be a covert information war on the subject, human civilians turned into Chicken Littles is about the only way to get any type of ET information to the rest of us. Not a very good method of distribution, but I guess ETs are taking what they can get without causing a mass disturbance with full disclosure.

So what did this dream ET look like? A typical grey? And was that the full extent of this prediction? Have any other predictions been given to you yet?

Originally posted by Frith
Interesting, but it is odd that they would let you, somebody who has no public visibility, see this. Letting one human who doesn't communicate with other humans on a large basis (other than semi-anonymously on the internet) doesn't seem to serve much purpose. Your assumption that this ET was letting you know this to get you to believe a future prediction without question sounds like a good theory, but again, you don't seem to have much public visibility.

Well, to be clear, this wasn't so much a prediction of a possible future as much as it was almost like a real-time 'broadcast' or communications check. Due to timing, there was no way -- even if I was the President -- for me to have been able to stop the accident. This is because the descent of the shuttle began in the early morning and I estimate that I had this dream somewhere between 5 and 7am central time. And... even if I had some sort of high profile I couldn't have done anything, anyways, because the information wasn't specific enough (for instance I was not shown a closeup of the damaged wing).

...which gets to your point: The aim of this 'contact' was clearly not to get me to save the shuttle or warn NASA. It was, like I wrote before, probably some sort of way of 'letting me in' on what's going on or a demonstration of whatever type of link people have with the 'ET's (or paranormal beings). It also may have been a form of encouragement or confirmation that weird things like this are real: After all, this communication was specific and timely enough not to have just been an accident or imaginative dream. And, most importantly, it seems to have been set-up in a way that made it clear that it was either paranormal or 'telepathic' in nature. This, in itself, may have been a form of 'revelation' about the nature of the 'aliens'.

It also, more than just making me believe whatever dream I may have in the future, appears to have been a demonstration of sorts... as if they were saying "we will communicate this way in the future." Now... to be careful, though... I have to be straight forward and say that this is my interpretation. Only the stuff about Columbia was directly intuited to me.

As for the idea that this is how they are slowly making people aware of their existence... I have to say that this makes sense but, to go back to my original idea, I don't know if it is meant to acclamate people to the idea of physical aliens as much as it may be meant to get them used to the idea of beings that exist in other or higher states of consciousness (or beings that are 'mind' itself and that are able to interact with other minds in dreams and as manifestations that appears as aliens).

As for the being itself... like the one I saw in my room as a boy it was very similar to what is often described as a 'gray' but it was extremely white. It was white as snow or porcelein.

I have had other dreams about these beings, but I do not think that they were 'real' in the sense that they involved interaction with actual beings (even at a mental level). Strangely, these types of dreams have involved 'grays' (who are, again, really snow white) with golden eyes (imagine the color of the gold foil that covered the bottom of the lunar lander). These beings are immensely powerful (or so I sense in these dreams). In one dream I vaguely recall being in a lab (though one that looked like it was built by humans) while being tasked with studying an 'infant' version of one of the Goldeneyed aliens. I had to lift it out of a 'crib' that had a liquid basin. While testing its reactions (by waving a piece of paper near its eyes) I suddenly felt an extreme sense of shame, as if it was wrong to almost be 'goading' or 'toying' with this being. In some ways I felt like how a father must feel after he's just made frun of his own kids... only to feel regret.

well I don't think that your perspective on what aliens might be,will sound anymore more ludicrious than most ideas on this board. And i definetly know that your story is pretty believable to us that have had alien or paranormal encounters. I personally had many paranormal experiences, and the one thing that bothers me on this board, is that when someone says they saw lets say their spiritiual guide,friendly ghost , jesus or god in a dream, people say wow. but as soon as they mention seeing demons, aliens people say they should get their heads checked! if they should get their heads checked for one it should definetly apply to the other.

but anyway, i came to this board after years of being interested in the paranormal, satanism,demons, angels,visions, real life testimonies. and the only thing i can say that links alot of paranormal experiences and alien encounter stories is that most people always talk about how heightened their senses are and how powerfuil their emotions are whether they be fear or love. it's almost like they are going through different levels of hypersuggestibility and emotion is the tool being used to get them there(the extreme emotion is being used as a catalyst to overload their conscious mind).

of course i've yet to understand more than that, if i knew more i'd write a book and be rich!

and rivergoddess is right, you'll see more people posting thoughts on this and i hope it bring you some ease.

All my experiences with "Them" lead me to agree with you. They are here as much or more in spirit (paranormal) as they are in a physical sense. I hope Earthsister will comment on this thread.

wow what a read!

i dont really know what to make of any of this...

my opinion is that you probably recieved a telepathic communication
it may or may not have been intended for you
*it could have been sent to thousands of people*

next time you have a dream of this sort; Post It Right Away
dont be afraid of being ridiculed or anything; our judgements are worthless anyways

i do want to say that i firmly believe aliens are of Physical construct
perhaps they have abilitys or technologies that can simulate what we call "paranormal" or "supernatural" phenomena

hmmm but i must get this one thing straight with everyone

Paranormal or Supernatural is impossible
it cannot exist

If a Ghost or Alien exist; it is Normal and Natural
Not Paranormal

Everything that exists is totally normal

lol quite a play on words there eh?

good post tho onlyinmydreams; thanks for sharing it with us
and no we wont laugh at you

Good evening, Hozer and Everyone. As soon as I read the first post I was planning to comment. I am happy and excited to read about these things being discussed on ATS. Nobody can ignore the progressiveness of this remarkable website.

onlyinmydreams, you have my full support, and I assure you that your alien dreams are real events that you are actively participating in. Record them in order with every detail. No matter how strange things may seem to you, nothing is random or casual. If you write them as soon as you recall them, this will preserve their integrity and leave you clear to focus on subsequent encounters. The more factually you write, the more you will recall, and the more clearly you will recall. If you pay close attention, you will quickly learn the differences in sensations and patterns between your nonsensical imagination and actual encounters, and it sounds like you are already doing this. Your alien contacts will show you exactly what you need to learn. You know them very well, and are doing much more with them than you recall yet.

Spiritual means "of spirit" natural, and psychic- it does not mean religious. Although, you can have a spiritual experience with anybody, including God, Angels, family, friends and people you know who have died, and even animals. It does not matter what race or world a person comes from, he is still body and spirit and you can meet him by spirit to have a good talk or share an important lesson. There is always a purpose to these events and knowing about them physically. They are always designed for you to learn from, in one form or another, whether you realize what that is at the time or not.

The races visiting Earth are trying to talk with particular individual humans one-on-one, which is the only way they can circumvent govt control to educate the public to open a relationship between our worlds. There is a biological barrier between all races, though, because we cannot share each other's atmosphere, so they can't just show up physically for us where we are. It takes them a great deal of planning and technology to secure a place to arrive physically, and then there is still always risks of harm. The amount of time they can maintain any physical exposure here is very short, and the chance of discovery by uninvolved people is high, as well as the ability of govt to trace the activity to the human. It is far easier and safer to just meet by spirit, which is the normal way all races meet together world to world. Only, when they meet together they don't have to sneak, like they do for us. When the alien people meet us here, they are usually out of body, and when we go onto their ships to meet, we are the ones out of body.

All humans have four states of consciousness, and we are active in all four at all times, but we are only well aware of one of our states- the physical state. This is what is normal for humans now, and is right where it should be at this point in our evolution. If and when something we are doing in our spiritual states comes to our physical state, the "memory" of it comes from within ourselves, up through our states of consciousness, and this is what makes it seem and feel like we imagined it, as in a dream. The goal for the human who has ongoing alien encounters, is to accomplish spiritual-to-physical awareness of the events, preferably at the time of the events. However, even when some of our encounters are physical, most of our encounters remain non-physical. That means that for years, a human will have awareness of his encounters but dismiss them all as imagination, or spirits, until he finally pays attention and sees and hears his alien contacts physically.

It makes no difference to the reality of the encounter whether we are awake or asleep, either when it happens, or when we recall it physically. We are always "dreaming." Encounters can happen at any time. But, it is just easier for us to recall encounters when we are asleep, and it's easier and safer for the aliens to have encounters with us when we are asleep.

The races visiting Earth are much further evolved spiritually than we are, as well as every other way. They use their spiritual abilities at all times without limits on their awareness. The basics of these are communicating telepathically and meeting out of body. When the alien races initiate encounters with us, they can cause us to be more aware of them spiritually, and to use our abilities more than we can accomplish on our own. We can talk with them telepathically and see them out of body, even if we can't accomplish that as well with other humans.

Many people have alien contact and never know it. And if you have it, there are always physical signs of visitation surrounding the events, even all through your whole life. But face to face meetings and clear communication that can develop into the personal, professional and educational relationship between you and your alien contacts, depend on the unity and agreement of yourself between your states of consciousness.

Think of yourself with your shadow. Your spirit is like your shadow- it's you, a part of you, except that it's older and more intelligent and capable than the body part of you. And it goes out all the time and has a blast in the Universe when you aren't looking.








[edit on 7/1/2005 by EarthSister]

Earthsister,

That was very interesting. Thank you for taking the time to write a long and thought-out post... especially for a thread that I was unsure of at first. You'll have to forgive me if I don't understand or take up on all these spiritual issues immediately, as I have always considered the ET issue to be one only of ships and hard science... or something that was entirely fake (depending on the period in my life).

My thinking when I began this thread, though, was that all of this might be more than just 'aliens' and spaceships... I have begun to think that the ET/UFO phenomena might be part of some larger psychological (though very real) development that we can't understand yet. This change in thinking was motivated by some of the writings of Carl Jung and Jacques Vallee.

In fact, here is a short clip from an interview the French UFOLogist did decades ago. Though it would seem to be different than the version of events that you are talking about, EarthSister (because you are ultimately still talking about physical ships and aliens), I still think that it hits on many of the same notes:

from
www.nidsci.org...

*
But by 1969, when he published Passport to Magonia (Regnery), Vallee's assessment of the UFO phenomenon had undergone a significant shift. Much to the consternation of the "scientific ufologists" who had seen him as one of their champions, Vallee now seemed to be backing away from the extraterrestrial hypotheses and advancing the radical view that UFOs are paranormal in nature and a modern space age manifestation of a phenomenon which assumes different guises in different historical contexts.
" When the underlying archetypes are extracted," he wrote, "the saucer myth is seen to coincide to a remarkable degree with the fairy-faith of Celtic countries … religious miracles… and the widespread belief among all peoples concerning entities whose physical and psychological descriptions place them in the same category as the present-day ufonauts."
In The Invisible College (E.P. Dutton, 1975) Vallee posits the idea of a "control system." UFOs and related phenomena are "the means through which man's concepts are being rearranged." Their ultimate source may be unknowable, at least at this stage of human development; what we do know, according to Vallee, is that they are presenting us with continually recurring "absurd" messages and appearances which defy rational analysis but which nonetheless address human beings on the level of myth and imagination.
*

Funny... I've done a 180 in terms of UFOLogy in one week.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
wow what a read!

i dont really know what to make of any of this...

my opinion is that you probably recieved a telepathic communication
it may or may not have been intended for you
*it could have been sent to thousands of people*

next time you have a dream of this sort; Post It Right Away
dont be afraid of being ridiculed or anything; our judgements are worthless anyways

Yes, that's an interesting idea... Have any of you guys ever heard a story like the Columbia one? It would be interesting if this was a 'grassroots' way to get people's acceptance.

And, yes, I will report anything else ASAP... though years go by between such dreams (though, following ES advice, I will be writing down any weird dreams I have with regularity now).

The only journell I am keeping at this stage in my life is a dream journell.

Sometimes I do write things in it from waking life, but for the most part it hold only strange dreams.......Things I can't shake once I wake up. They seem to want to be recalled somehow, though I've yet to find an actuall use for these recollections.

onlyinmydreams

As Muzzleflash said, everything is actually normal. All the things we know, and all the things we don't know yet, are all normal. There is no "super" normal except in our own minds.

There are "invisible" things, and invisible natures to things, all around us all of the time, some of which we can witness, but that are beyond our understanding yet- and whenever we do witness them, we naturally create or go get things to believe about their nature, some true things and some not true things. The things themselves are not "mysterious" as an adjective to describe them. They are only mysterious to us, in our own minds, and only until we understand them. Once we become aware of them, we can start to study them, and begin to stretch our understanding and expand our science to include their nature. Once we figure them out well enough, we take them out of that "realm of the unknowns" and bring them into the circle of things that we know. The only change is in our minds.

My favorite example of this is when Pasture discovered that germs cause diseases. Nobody could have done that until the microscope was invented- until we were intelligent and capable enough to invent such a device. At that time, it was commonly demanded that demons caused diseases, and people who dared teach otherwise were imprisoned and killed over it. We should have, but could not have learned right then, that the demons only came out of our minds- out of our not knowing the nature of what we witness, but even still today people believe that the demons are real entities. These are the same people, the same minds, us, that are dealing with the evidence of our visiting races and all the things about them that we witness, that are beyond our understanding yet.

Once we developed technology to discover DNA and genetics, a whole new "world" began to open for us in our knowledge and understanding of life around us. But what if further advanced people came to Earth from their worlds and showed us genetics before we figured it all out ourselves? Would we think that everybody else in the entire Universes had genetics, and not us? So consider that what we need to know right now, that the aliens are showing us now, is something else that is KEY to understanding the nature of ALL life, but not just the physical nature of it. What they are showing us, we just do not recognize for what it is yet, even though we are witnessing it on Earth and in ourselves. We are still ignoring it and disbelieving it and demonizing it. We call it magic and call the alien people magic when they show us it.

Humans are to a point where we all utilize enough technology, that when we suddenly see something technological that is obviously mega-advanced, we can rationalize that we are looking at something normal to our minds, and know that it is just beyond our current knowledge yet. We could fathom what it is without demonizing it, based on what we know of our own technology. This does not happen for us as well when we witness advanced spiritual natures of our visiting races, because we are still demonizing our own spiritual nature.

Because of their dimensional technologies, advanced races of people can travel vast distances to visit neighboring worlds. They can conceal their crafts right in the afternoon sky over the center of a busy town. They can also stand in person invisibly right inside of your house, and "pop" in and out of your sight if they want to. Before humans could fathom such technologies as the use of other dimensions, all of this was demonized (religion-ized) whenever advanced crafts and advanced people were witnessed by humans. Not because the aliens are demonic and religious, but because the people thought of all unknown things in terms of demons and religion.

People make up and believe in a lot of things that do not exist at all, as well. You can gage the naïveté of the people by how much difference they see between the real things they do not know about and the unreal things they do not know about. To most uninformed humans, these are all one and the same kind of thing, and there they stand with the alien races.

When Vallee approached the reality of these alien things outside then-current knowledge and tried to integrate them into a concept of how they are real, his colleagues thought he was trying to validate untrue things, and the way Vallee writes, it sounds like he thought he was trying to do that too. BTW, he also sounds like he was struggling to explain how what he was witnessing himself could be true, without admitting his experiences. There is no separation of science and nature, or physical and spiritual. There is science to spirit itself, and it's parallel in existence to the physical science we know yet. It is as parallel as our spirit to our bodies. But we ignore it, because "it's not real" and because "it's imagination" and because it's a "myth". We are stuck in an ancient wheel rut that demands that whatever we cannot put our hands and minds around, is either not real, or demonic. More recently we've added the view that it doesn't matter anyway, but we have to do better than this.

Was there a science to genetics or atoms before we discovered them? Were they not real before and only came into existence as we noticed them? Were the aliens really demons popping in and out until the time we realized there are other dimensions? Where do all the demons go every time we discover the real nature of another thing?

Can the races of people who are ahead of us evolutionally travel to other planets even though we can't yet? Can they speak to each other mind to mind? Can they get out of their bodies consciously to meet in the same place with one another race to race? The answer is yes, and the entire point of their showing us is that so can we.

It should not still be this way on Earth. Lots of things on Earth should not still be this way. We are smarter than this. Information that can improve life here should be taught across our planet. The powers of Earth are keeping the common people in control and dependent by keeping them ignorant and confused about these natures, and afraid of "demons" whenever we may witness the spiritual nature of advanced life. The govt power knows that public knowledge, intelligence and education threaten the structure of control that they run our world on. The alien races live a lot better than we do here, and so should we.

Maybe there were only good leadership intentions in keeping the general publics uninformed about the reality of our visiting races, back when our leaders first started to learn that all the "crazy" reports of UFO sightings were actually true. Maybe the govts did not know what the alien races were about and didn't want to scare anyone. But a lot of things have happened, and now they do know what the aliens are about, and now that is why they want to keep the publics so afraid of them.

As long as we are willing to be taught on Earth to put everything that is outside of our current understanding, into a realm of "myth", then that is where all the things will always seem to be approaching us from- out of the realm of myths.


















[edit on 7/2/2005 by EarthSister]

I'm amazed with you responses, Earth Sister. It really makes think, and I mean a lot.
The implications of it are so high that it makes sense that the govt. keeps us far away from the truth.
I didn't even put things in the way you do about our dreams, and spirit.
I don't know if this is right but what if all the reports of abductions by bad aliens are disinfo just to make us fear aliens, and the knowledge that awaits for us?
If it's really true that we're being visited by so many civilizations it doesn't make sense that they would let a couple of "greys" ruin all that they are working for, it makes sense that it is disinfo.

Take a note of every report and check it's autenticity and see if it involves bad treatment, or experiments. I would bet that you wouldn't find any.

If dreams are "true", some of them at least, what are the dreams that we have when we're asleep and we know that we're "dreaming"?In those situations I kinda play with the situation.
It puzzles me cause it happens to me a lot, and it's a weird sensation.

Originally posted by Frith
So you were given a prediction as to the fate of the Space Shuttle Columbia? Interesting, but it is odd that they would let you, somebody who has no public visibility, see this. Letting one human who doesn't communicate with other humans on a large basis (other than semi-anonymously on the internet) doesn't seem to serve much purpose. Your assumption that this ET was letting you know this to get you to believe a future prediction without question sounds like a good theory, but again, you don't seem to have much public visibility.

How many people come here to ATS everyday to read about these kinds of experiences? With the way ATS works, a person doesn't really even need much public visibility. All one has to do is post their experience on this board, then a few people will read it, possibly change their positions on a few things, then inform others who are interested. Even if they're not directly spreading a specific story, they're spreading the "moral" behind it.

Maybe onlyinmydreams being a part of the ATS community isn't just a coincidence. I think there are many people here for the same reasons.

EDIT: Also, I was wondering if I could get a link to onlyinmydreams's previous thread about his experiences.


[edit on 2-7-2005 by CloudlessKnight]

InfoIsPower

Thank you, I am glad to hear I am understood for what I mean to say.

Our visiting races were not all always organized into one effort, as they are now. Before they were, some of the races visiting alone were taking advantage of us because they needed things we have and because there was nobody to stop them from taking it. Our govts were refusing assistance with our major world problems directly from a number of our visiting races, but using human contacts to try to gather information about the the alien races.

The leadership of USA recognized an opportunity upon the discovery of two races who were conducting hybrid programs with the use of particular humans. The govt tracked the alien races by putting surveillance on their human contacts and then forced trade agreements upon the two races. The agreements were essentially allowing abductions of these humans in exchange for advanced technologies. These two races were who we call The Greys.

The Greys were not malicious or trying to cause harm to humans, but they were desperate, and now cornered into complying in some way with demands of our leading govts, but they would not give the kind of technologies that our govt was asking for. The rest of the races visiting Earth had only willing and appropriate contact with their human contacts, but because of the nature of alien contact itself, and because of rampant disinformation, ALL personal alien contact, as it was being discovered through the consciousness of participating humans, was generally perceived and reported to be abduction.

Whenever a human had clear, communicative, positive alien encounters, it was not collected as data through an abduction support group. Often the alien experiencer did not even know it was an "alien" but thought a "spiritual being" perhaps a spirit or an angel. For many of these people, their "friends" had been there in their dreams all their lives since childhood. Well-adjusted alien experiencers who knew their alien contacts did not seek help and they were just not often reported or even believed.

The humans who were in hybrid programs had the busiest, most physical and scheduled of alien contact, with very little or no explanation or understanding of what was happening to them. The stories of their fearful experiences were not only mainlined through the grapevine of ufo groups, but sensationalized and exaggerated both in severity and numbers. This was done both by accident by the people who knew about the abductions, and on purpose by those in govt positions who wanted to take advantage of it. Many abductions were done by govt people posing as alien people to fortify the horror stories. Agents themselves posed as abductees in support groups to help spread the worst stories and accusations against all alien races, and to fill in the worst parts of encounters for others who "do not remember."

The most advanced races visiting Earth, who were still organizing all of the races visiting, stopped The Greys from using any humans against their will, stopped the hybrid programs, and relieved The Greys of the trade agreements with our govts. They offered both races of The Greys other further advanced ways to get what they needed without the misuse of humans, and were offered a period of time to comply. One of the races was able to comply and one was not. The one that did not was dismissed permanently from visiting Earth and the other is still visiting. Their real name is The Ancient Ones.

As of that time, in April 2000, the organization of our visiting races was completed and now all of the races that are visiting Earth are working together, and all are working toward a diplomatic relationship with our world. There are still a lot of things to work out, and certain govts are still threatening the alien races with harm to their human contacts whenever they show up. These govts must hide and disguise the evidence of alien life on Earth, such as alien crafts and crop circles, in order to hide and disguise the truth of their own crimes against humanity and against the visiting races.

The truth and intentions of our visiting races are coming out to the public steadily, regardless of govt control, through individuals who have advanced contact. The visiting races are ready to show up for everybody all at once, and the better we can handle it, the faster it can happen, and the easier it will be to sort out.

We are dreaming all of the time, and not limited to the experiences of our body. Our spirit is aware and alert right here with us. and we all travel out of body and go places and do things with others. We mostly meet with our own circle of friends and family members, the same as in physical life. Personal alien contact is not random, it is a natural relationship. For some humans, their circle of spiritual friends and family include people from other worlds.

When you are out of body and conscious of being in both places at the same time, that makes you aware inside of the "dream." The more you pay attention, the less of a part your imagination will play in your perception of your experience.

It's really good that you can be aware in your dreams. It's called being lucid. Keep doing it and see what else happens. Try to get the same sensation during meditation while you are awake. Do it by completely relaxing your body while keeping your mind empty and alert.











[edit on 7/2/2005 by EarthSister]

Great thread. I have a couple of questions for some of the participants:

onlyinmydreams...On the night of the experience you've described, were you aware of the shuttle's impending return? If so, what was the level of your awareness, and had you had any previous troublesome feelings? I must confess that I wasn't even aware of the exact date of the shuttle's scheduled return, so I was all the more surprised when the story broke into the radio show to which I was listening. I'm interested in gauging your level of awareness in lieu of our occasional predispositions towards suggestability, conscious or otherwise.

EarthSister...I'm still fairly new to the site, so forgive me if I'm asking you to repeat information that you've clearly outlined before. In reference to your spiritual awareness, I'd love to hear your understanding of what becomes of our spiritual selves once we leave our bodies for good. I often hear discussions that involve a continuous edification of sorts, yet I wonder if along with enlightenment there is any atonement. Perhaps my need and desire for atonement stands in conflict to ultimate spiritual evolution, but I would feel rather disappointed and devalued as an entity in this universe to think that the evil committed on this earth (or any other planet) isn't brought to bear upon the heads of instigators at some point. I'm not a proponent of cartoonish visions of Hell, yet I honestly believe that Heaven (which I equate with enlightenment) itself would be devalued without a companion Hell of sorts. Once again, is this belief of mine merely proof that I am wholly (and perhaps holy) unenlightened?

Earth Sister

Thank you for the time you spent writing the post.

Your answers fulfill the empty spaces that my questions were used to ocupy.
I can say that I feel great because I believe that your answers are from the hearth.
I have never imagined that so many things could be the way they are, and I used to imagine many them just that way, it's ironic.
I felt sceptic, and I feel regarding many other things, but somehow I believed that that could not be the way things are supposed to be, you know? It's just not right! But now I believe I know the truth, and even if I don't it doesn't matter because I truly believe that way.

No one can ilude me from what I know now, no one can decieve me to believe in something else, because I feel it is the truth deep inside my hearth.
It's like when the body meets spirit, I feel I found myself in some way that the only thing I can do now, and want to, is to develop my capabilities of comprehend.
I just need that. If I want to help and I can't, at least in a direct way, I feel happy just for understanding why it is happening and how.

Lot's of evil and lies are spread by this world, we are the victims of the sistem we live in, we are the black sheeps of a supposedly loyal people. Loyal to their liders, that is the way they want us to be, and that's fine to me if those are leaders loyal to their people, who speak truthfully, and that do not hide good things from us.
The bad things are good to be kept away from the population, in some manner, that's what leaders are for, to help their people and to protect them from bad things.
But no, they do everything to their own good, they are jealous, they decieve, they do not deserve to lead us.

And that's very bad. Right now, that's the only hate that I have within my body, because almost everything bad that happens, the current global situation is their fault.
I don't blame everyone, because from time to time a good leader shows up and makes something good.
But in general that's just the way it is.

I have never meditated, though I have an ideia of how and what it is. I'll do it, or try at least, but I don't believe I'll accomplish something on the first times.
I don't need it, I have time to experience whatever appears. I hope and pray to God for it, but now, I don't need anything else.

I've got what life gave now, and I experience it, who knows what surprises might show up later? I'll wait.

Thanks for the time, and sorry for the big post.



[edit on 2-7-2005 by InfoIsPower]

orpheus descending

Welcome to ATS. We're glad you can be with us.

My understanding about what you asked is simple, but it's direct from my experiences and conversations with other beings, including spirits, angels, and my alien contacts. Without going deep into it, I will tell you here since it pertains somewhat to the topic of the thread.

My understanding of what becomes of our spiritual selves once our bodies die, is we go into the spirit world to spend a period of time natural to our race. The spirits call it the spirit world, so I do too. It's pretty great there, but this is not heaven. While we are alive and we travel out of body, not all of us goes out- not like when we die. When we die, our entire soul comes out, not just our spirit body.

Humans are in a continuum over a number of lives here on Earth, usually a few lives. Not an endless amount. We normally stay close in life with our family members and friends. Between bodies we live in peace and contentment in the spirit world. The spirit world, for us, is very much like Earth, but there is no strife. Spirits can move freely at will through all of the dimensions, and go and do and create absolutely anything they like just by thinking of it. They are only limited on what they can do during any visits to where we are, which they are told by those who watch over things.

Because of the human condition, we have human problems, mentally, emotionally, physically and spiritually. We are still human, still ourselves, when we die, so there is also the human condition in dying, and sometimes we get stuck and don't cross over to the spirit world. I mean to say that getting stuck is part of the human condition, not part of dying. Those people are lost for some un-predetermined period of time, but no more forgotten than somebody who is "lost" alive on Earth, such as a homeless person or a drug addict. We can help them and so can their loved ones on the other side, and they can help themselves, and God does not forget anybody. To God we are exactly the same before during and after life.

I am told that when we are finished living physical lives is a personal, mutual decision between us and our creator, and from there we go to "heaven" which is where God lives. And I am told that from there, we go on to do even more and greater things, but I don't know what those things are.

There is no hell or punishment like our religions teach us, but God takes care of everybody in his own way. And all of the people in all of the Universes live a life span natural to their race, and then when their bodies die, they go into the spirit world, which to them is their own home, with their own race, and family and friends. And they have a series of lives on their own worlds as well.

Whenever a soul of one race/world travels between lives to spend a series of lives at another race/world, that is always for a spiritual purpose of working between the worlds. On a spiritual and Universal level, this is a large sacrifice, not unlike when a person from an advanced country leaves behind his home and family to dedicate his life working in a more primitive country. Ten percent of the alien experiencers on Earth now are of alien soul, and the rest are offspring of the ten percent.

No matter what we do wrong, God takes each of us home. Atonement is a personal process that we may struggle with in our own way through our lives and existence. Spiritually we continue to evolve regardless of our awareness or atonement, but unity of our states of consciousness requires peace with ourselves. Being aware of what we are doing by spirit and physically participating in it takes a kind of balance, and mental and physical health that is advanced for humans yet. This means living as clear as you can in all ways, but does not mean never making a mistake or going through a rough time. It means overcoming and forgiving our own mistakes, and others their mistakes, in spite of the human condition, and continuing to go on without the burden of old hurts.

Enlightenment is a continuous process. Everything is relative about it. Even the most advanced races in the Universe wonder about life as much as we do. They don't know everything about God either, and they only know what they've heard about dying if they've never done it before.

The concepts that occupy your mind and your effort to figure them out mean to me that you are becoming enlightened.

InfoIsPower

I know how you feel about our leaderships of Earth. If things stayed this way, the worse would probably happen, and that is why the other races are making sure that things change. They are not taking over, and not making us do anything, but giving us the opportunity to change it, and we will. We already are.

This is our own world and it's up to us to make the changes in the way our govts run it. If the other races could do that for us, they would have done it long ago, but then they would own us.

Earth Sister

That's the way I think it should be, we have that right and they respect it.
I don't know how it will be, how is this situation developing at a more precise way, but hope it happens soon.

I just began to sense a whole new sensations around me. Wherever I go I sense something unusual, some energy unkown to me yet. They are everywhere, and are different in many ways.
I hope I realise one day how to distinguish them and maybe interact with them.

This is an interesting thread, and I'm surprised that so few people are related to these events.
Maybe they're still in merge of beggining realising what you already did, Earth Sister.
I am just a random and low level experiencer.