"One must understand that the content and the interpretation of all sayings of the Biblical Revelations of Jesus Christ have been completely and totally misunderstood from the very first day of their conception. All interpretations given through Emanuel Swedenborg. Through him, one important aspect of that Revelation was interpreted properly with the inappropriate perception by Swedenborg that his interpretation contained the entire meaning of that Revelation. (Let it be known now that what was revealed through Swedenborg about the content of that Revelation was only a limited aspect of the whole picture). Swedenborg was permitted to consider his interpretation as complete due to the fact that time, no one was ready to know more about other aspects of that revelation. However, the aspect of that Revelation, as revealed through Swedenborg, was the very beginning of The New Revelation which is being continued in its transmission at this time. All other available interpretations of that Revelation have never been inspired by The Lord Jesus Christ directly or indirectly. Therefore, they are to be disregarded.

First of all, most interpreters of that Revelation assumed that all events described in it relate to the physical planet Earth and the destiny of humankind as it will unfold in the process of its history. Nothing is farther from the truth than this false assumption.

Secondly, most so-called Christians assumed that the Revelation of Jesus Christ given through John was the final one and nothing new can be revealed any longer. And if it is revealed, it must be from the negative and misleading source. This false assumption stems from a totally misunderstood statement recorded by Apostle John in the last Chapter of the Revelation of Jesus Christ, Chapter 22, verses 18 -19. It says there,

'For I testify to everyone who hears the words of
The prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these
Things, God will add to him the plagues that are
Written in this book; and if anyone takes away from
The words of the book of this prophecy, God shall
Take away his part from the Book of Life, from the
Holy city, and from the things which are written in
this book.'

This statement was taken literally and not spiritually. The meaning of these words relates solely to the content of the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Basically, it denotes two things:

1. The spiritual conditions of the multiverse (all infinite varieties of universes, beings and existences in Creation) at the time of that Revelation was ready to perceive, to know, to understand and to apply only that which was contained in that Revelation. If anything were to be taken out of that Revelation, it would mean spiritual deterioration and concealment of vitally important truths which were necessary to be revealed in their fullness within the spiritual limitations of that time. Anything less would mean the end of the possibility for the spiritual progression. Such an end denoted spiritual death. On the other hand, if anything were to be added to that Revelation, it would mean a premature exposure of the spiritual concepts and ideas for which no one was spiritually ready for. Adding anything more than one can take or comprehend may and will result in misunderstanding, distortion, misinterpretation, perversion and ultimate spiritual profanation. This also results in the spiritual death.

2. The above-quoted statement does not indicate that no new revelation will be granted in the future. It limits itself only to the content of its own statements. This is obvious from the words ‘adds to these things and takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy.’ It does not speak about any other things, or any other prophecies. This implies a very important spiritual rule: Each period of time is limited by its own spiritual quality, content and style of life which requires its own specific truth as revealed in the Revelation tailored to the needs of that time. This is a Principle of Accommodation. It states:

'Any true Revelation, given by the Lord Jesus
Christ, is accommodated to the spiritual quality and
Level of spiritual maturity of each particular and
specific time.'

So you see, if we weren't given the whole revelation at one point, it was for our own good. We weren't ready spiritually. Also, what was given to us, was meant to be in pure symbolism. The Old Revelation, by the necessity of the spiritual state existing at that time, was written in pure correspondences and obscure symbolism. Taking into consideration what was going to happen after the First Coming of Jesus Christ, it was necessary to conceal the true meaning of the revealed truths in the obscurity of human language in order to prevent the negative state and its minions from the proper understanding of what was being said. That way, they could not interfere with the process of the works of the Divine Providence of The Lord Jesus Christ."

-to the original poster,

well, much of what youve said is correct, atleast in my opinion, however the deciet that we're "falling" for is so cunning that even though we're all suspecting these plots against humanity, the evidence we've collected aparently isnt enough. all we do is discuss it on the internet.

your preaching to the choir buddy. so am i. whatever. its just, weve already lost any real capability to combat these issues. were left to protest and plea to world governing powers, which usually have corporate interests as top priority. i.e. not yours.

lets get organized people. our only hope is in the proles. i mean grassroots. it is the story of our age.


[edit on 22-7-2005 by lost]

For I testify to everyone who hears the words of
The prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these
Things, God will add to him the plagues that are
Written in this book; and if anyone takes away from
The words of the book of this prophecy, God shall
Take away his part from the Book of Life, from the
Holy city, and from the things which are written in
this book.'

Jes, these verses are Literal, not Spiritual.
They are simple to understand so that anyone that would add to them will be without excuse when they stand before God.

They are not a parable, but a simple warning.
The Bible is complete, it has 66 chapters, the number of man.

The Bible is clear that at the time the Beast should reign there would be a
'Mark"(an implanted chip "IN" the skin)

A "Number" ( a credit, debit or smart card that would contain the prefix 666 and "Numbers" that identify the user)

The "Number" of his name ( the 3's 13's, 33's, and of course the 6's, which are what the corporations that are part of the Beast system use)

Lost
We can not stop the Beast, for it is written that many shall worship him.
My effort is to reveal and prove the time in which we are living in, that we might repent and be saved, knowing that time is short.

Originally posted by Jes
"One must understand that the content and the interpretation of all sayings of the Biblical Revelations of Jesus Christ have been completely and totally misunderstood from the very first day of their conception."

Based on what assumption? I can state that the only way to understand math is by reading it this way or that, but you see, this is an opinion. There are formulas, with guidelines and rules of how to be applied. It is no different when reading scripture. You must first understand how to use the formulas, or you will get every answer wrong.

Originally posted by Jes
"First of all, most interpreters of that Revelation assumed that all events described in it relate to the physical planet Earth and the destiny of humankind as it will unfold in the process of its history. Nothing is farther from the truth than this false assumption."

In what century was this written? Clearly, this is not what is believed today for Revelation. This statement is an assumption based on zero facts.

Originally posted by Jes
Secondly, most so-called Christians assumed that the Revelation of Jesus Christ given through John was the final one and nothing new can be revealed any longer. And if it is revealed, it must be from the negative and misleading source.

Not the final Revelation from Christ, but a roadmap. Your quoted argument is flawed Jes. We are not arguing new Revelations, but manipulated, and false interpretation of Revelation.

Originally posted by Jes
'Any true Revelation, given by the Lord Jesus
Christ, is accommodated to the spiritual quality and
Level of spiritual maturity of each particular and
specific time.'

This is an absolutely false statement. If it were so - no one would receive the Holy Spirit, as the Holy Spirit is revelation of Jesus Christ to all who believe, and not based on maturity, or quality, but rather faith and belief in what was said by Christ.

Originally posted by Jes
Also, what was given to us, was meant to be in pure symbolism. The Old Revelation, by the necessity of the spiritual state existing at that time, was written in pure correspondences and obscure symbolism.

Symbology and literalism can be understood by what your reading. In essence here is symbology in scripture:

It "looked like" a spinning wheel in the sky.
The beast had a head "like" a lion.

Another example of symbology is when the writing was seen on the wall by Belshazzar. This was actually a Jeopardy question the other day. What was the writing on the wall? Answer: Daniel 5

25: And this is the writing that was written, MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN.
26: This is the interpretation of the thing: MENE; God hath numbered thy kingdom, and finished it.
27: TEKEL; Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting.
28: PERES; Thy kingdom is divided, and given to the Medes and Persians.

The words are symbolic of the meaning or definition. Now what about literalism?

The beast has a lion head.
"I saw," the temple.
There are this many weeks until completion.

Here is a rule to abide by when reading scripture with symbology or literalism:

Anything to be taken symbolically the author will tell you to read symbolically. Anything to be taken literally, the author will describe as such.

Not very difficult to understand. Jes, your quoted definition of symbology was written by an individual who did not understand the difference, or was simply trying to deceive the ignorant, to believe what he was saying. I believe it was the latter.

The fact that there would be rampant deception as the Beast comes to power is clear in Daniel, it is written :

He(the Beast) shal cause "CRAFT" to prosper Craft interpreted here is a shortform of "Witchcraft" and means "Deception"

Deceptions abound today, here are some.

That 911 was caused by terrorist and not the World Government (ELITE) working behind the scenes.

The UFO deception, there are no UFO's, the credible craft that have been seen were built in area 51 as a part of the Beast's last day deception.
For 60 years now we have been decieved into thinking that there are Aliens and UFO's, yet to date out of the millions of alledged UFO photo's there is not "ONE" Clear picture, not "ONE" shred of evidence whatsoever that provide "Proof" that there are real and yet half of the population have been decieved into beleiving that they exsist.

That they really went to the moon, this hoax was filmed in a disney studio, I have always wondered how they could send television signal back from the moon without the use of a large satellite antenna. Working in the satellite industry in the early 80's we use to use a satellite sighting tool that was about the size of a cigar. To me this is proof of the deception, here is why: How could a simple device of that size magnify the needed amount to see a 30 ft. satellite 22,300 miles away, it is impossible. That along with tranmitting a signal that far without an uplink satellite antenna say alot about the Deception. Also if you arrange the names of the shuttle into a sentence you will come up with this;

"A Colombian Enterprise to Endeavor for the Discovery of Atlantis... and all Challengers shall be destroyed." A very interesting coincidence to say the least.


The deception of "MEDECINE" Most beleive that the pharmacutical industry has our best interest at heart, yet they no longer provide cures for desease's but only offer ways to help us live with them, there is not as much money in curing a desease as there is in providing ud ways to live with them. HOW FOOLISH ARE WE ? almost every medication has a host of side effects which in fact cause further breakdown of our bodies. When I was a child, all we had in our medecine cabinet was, band-aids, mecurechrome(for cuts), castor oil (for colds) and peroxide for cleaning cuts.
Today our cabinets are full of different medecines and we are sicker than ever, and dying younger, yet we are suppose to beleive that these medecines help us. Although many medecines do help releive some symptoms, they also cause new deseases to develop. It is "BIG MONEY" to be made, they don't really care about us or they would find "CURES"

"WARS" Because we are of different "COLOR" We deem one person greater than another because of the color of their skin, yet "BLOOD" is "BLOOD" we are all of "ONE" BLOOD, my blood can save your life no matter what color you are.


I will also share this with you.
The Lord once took me forward in time to the days of the "Tribulation Period" what I saw and percieved was incredible.

It is another deception or rather an "Illusion" we have that we are safe at Home.
I saw the armies of the Beast just go into house after house through the "WINDOWS" We think we are safe because of the strong locks on our doors, but the armies of the Beast will come right through your Windows.
I saw in this vision as they dragged a woman out of her house by chains, took her out into the streets and began to whip her body back and forth against the street like a ragdoll until she died, and left her in the street.
There was such a "GREAT SENSE OF FEAR" in the land, for there was no where to hide from the Beast and his armies.
Many take lightly the Beast, they have no clue of the "HORRORS" he will bring. The mass bloodshed, the tortures, the mind altering technology he will use to make many docile zombies.

There will be no safe haven for those that refuse to take the "MARK OF THE BEAST"

Of a Truth Jesus spoke when he said, that it shall be a "Time of trouble like there never has been, since man has been on the Earth and that there will never again be such a time of Trouble.


[edit on 23-7-2005 by Lastday Prophet]

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
He(the Beast) shal cause "CRAFT" to prosper Craft interpreted here is a shortform of "Witchcraft" and means "Deception"

Deceptions abound today, here are some.

That 911 was caused by terrorist and not the World Government (ELITE) working behind the scenes.

You are attempting to say the anti-christ is alive today, in a man called the beast, and revealed according to scripture. Proof again, what you teach is false. The Jews temple is not rebuilt, and the beast in the form of a man does not control the world, nor proclaimed himself God from Jerusalem. You are using the events of today for evidence of your interpretation of scripture.

When this beast controls the earth, by CLAIMING HIMSELF GOD FROM THE JEWS TEMPLE, then you can use the events of the day to show proof. You say you have been studying scripture for so long? Why then, do you not understand this basic tenet? The Jews temple must be rebuilt first.

One more thing, you probably didn't figure on running into someone who could counter your every claim and provide scriptural proof in doing so. You said you would prove your claims through scripture, and make anyone a laughing stock who opposed you. I called your bluff.





[edit on 23-7-2005 by vincere7]

66:013:001 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up
out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his
horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

66:013:002 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his
feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of
a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and
great authority.

66:013:003 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and
his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after
the beast.

66:013:004 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the
beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto
the beast? who is able to make war with him?

66:013:005 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and
blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty
and two months.

66:013:006 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme
his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

66:013:007 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to
overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and
tongues, and nations.

66:013:008 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose
names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain
from the foundation of the world.


66:013:011 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he
had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

66:013:012 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him,
and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship
the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

66:013:013 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down
from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

66:013:014 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of
those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the
beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they
should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a
sword, and did live.

66:013:015 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast,
that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that
as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be
killed.

66:013:016 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free
and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their
foreheads:

66:013:017 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark,
or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

66:013:018 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the
number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his
number is Six hundred threescore and six.

DANIEL 8:
27:008:009 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed
exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and
toward the pleasant land.

27:008:010 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast
down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and
stamped upon them.

27:008:011 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and
by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of
the sanctuary was cast down.

27:008:012 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by
reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the
ground; and it practised, and prospered.

27:008:013 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto
that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision
concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of
desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be
trodden under foot.
27:008:014 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days;
then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

NO WHERE IN THESE VERSES DOES IT SAY THAT THE TEMPLE WAS TO BE REBUILT BFORE ANTI-CHRIST COMES TO POWER.


27:008:023 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the
transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce
countenance, "THE BEAST" and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

27:008:024 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and
he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise,
and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

27:008:025 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in
his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by
peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the
Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

27:009:024 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy
city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins,
and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in
everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and
prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

27:009:025 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of
the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the
Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and
two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even
in troublous times.
IT CLEARLY STATES HERE THAT "JERUSALEM' WOULD BE REBUILT, IT DOES NOT MENTION THE TEMPLE.
IT ALSO STATES THAT THE "WALL" WOULD BE REBUILT AND THIS HAS HAPPENED JUST LIKE IT SAYS, "IN TROUBLOUS TIMES"


27:009:027 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:
THE SEVEN YEAR PEACE PACT WITH ISRAEL, PROVING THAT THE ANTI-CHRIST WILL BE HERE AT THE BEGINNING OF THE SEVEN YEAR TRIBULATION PERIOD AND WILL BREAK HIS COVENANT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SEVEN YEAR PERIOD, (3 1/2 YEARS) WHICH WILL BE THE BEGINNING OF "THE GREAT TRIBULATION" WHICH WILL LAST 3 1/2 YEARS

and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the
oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations
he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and
that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

DAN:11
27:011:031 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the
sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily
sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh
desolate.

27:011:032 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt
by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be
strong, and do exploits.

27:011:033 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many:
yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity,
and by spoil, many days.

27:011:034 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little
help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.

27:011:035 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and
to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end:
because it is yet for a time appointed.

27:011:036 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall
exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall
speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall
prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is
determined shall be done.

27:011:037 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire
of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself
above all.

27:011:038 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god
whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and
silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

27:011:039 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god,
whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he
shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land
for gain.
THE CORPORATIONS UNDER THE GUIDANCE OF THE BEAST ARE CURRENTLY "DIVIDING THE LAND FOR THEIR GAIN"

27:011:043 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of
silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the
Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.


27:012:001 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince
which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall
be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a
nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people
shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in
the book. PROOF THAT GOD'S PEOPLE WILL BE TAKEN "OUT" OF THE TRIBULTION PERIOD

You need to walk in Revelation Vin, you are a LIAR and a DECIEVER, BLIND and cannot SEE.

You were wrong on several points:
That the Beast could not come to power before the Temple is rebuilt, please post the verses of scripture that state this.

That the Beast would not claim to be God, I provided the verses above that clearly state that he would exalt himself above every God.

Please post the verses that state that the Beast would stand in the temple and declare himself God !


[edit on 25-7-2005 by Lastday Prophet]

Well, if it were me personally in a seat of power, I would definitely want to be able to locate any kind of institutions or groups being set up with the purpose of instilling some kind of rebellion when I moved to extend my sphere of power.

After reading this entire thread I only have one thing to say - and that is for you Lastday Prophet.

I suggest you read the Book of Corinthians.
Particularly this:

“Not everyone has the power to work miracles or to heal diseases or to speak in strange tongues or to explain what is said. Set your hearts, then, on the more important gifts. Best of all, however, is the following way.
I may be able to speak the languages of human beings and even of angels, but if I have no love, my speech is no more than a noisy gong or a clanging bell…”

Lastday Prophet your reactions to a fellow believer (vincere7) show much about your standing.
Love, or more so the true meaning behind the word, ie. Love is patient, love is kind, so on and so forth, are the first fruits of any true believer.
You have shown none of these fruits.
For one who professes to be a prophet of God - you show little to no fruit at all.

I am persuaded to think you are either a babe (in Christ) or one who focuses on "Revalation" issues in order to avoid the pain of true Christ like growth.

NO ONE who follows Christ would speak to anyone, yet alone a fellow believer ie. YOUR BROTHER IN CHRIST as you have done in this thread.

A little tip - Matt 7:16

"Ye shall know them by their fruits"

Blinded, "Read The Book"

Mark 16:15-18 15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

17And these signs shall follow them that believe;

In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

19So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

20And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

It would seem to me that ALL "MATURE" TRUE Beleivers would manifest "SIGNS" in their Ministry, it is a confirmation.
You and others are "SHALLOW" and thus is why you do not beleive in or operate in any of the gifts of the spirit.

It is far better to be able to lay hands on the sick and have them recover, than to not be able to heal the sick.

It is far better to be able to speak in tongues and recieve revelation than not to speak in tongues.

It is far better to be able to cast out devils, than not to be able to cast them out.

SECOND, VIN has continually called me a liar and a false prophet, this I will not tolerate from anyone. I considered my rebuke of her MILD.

If you read the bible you will find that when the Prophet Elijah was teased by a group of children calling him "BALDY", he prayed and a gang of bears came out from the woods and ripped the children to death. I guess you would say he did not possess love either ?

I see VIN has not answered, I guess her mouth is shut.

Getting back on track
More proof concerning the number 13 and the ELITE
The Space Shuttle Discovery was first set to launch on July 13th, the date was changed to 13 Days later which was the 26th (2 x 13)
The time for launch was 10:39 1 + 0 + 3 + 9 = 13
Also in the time you have 39 which = 3 x 13
The orignal alternate date was the 31rst, a backward 13

But I guess that all the 3's and 13's in the time and date are all coincidental, the same could be said of Apollo 13, that launched at 13:13 military time on July 13th. The Columbia disaster took place on Feb. 1, 2003 or 2/1/03 2 + 1 + 0 + 3 = 6 or 2 x 3 or 33 I am sure all these 3's 13's and 6's are coincidental.


[edit on 26-7-2005 by Lastday Prophet]

I apologize for not answering as quickly as possible, but I have been very busy with my company. The customers come first. Also I apologize for the atmosphere here, as I do not want this to turn into a contest of anguish for fellow believers. Self proclaimed prophet is upset due to being called a false prophet. Too bad. Do you cry over shooting a wolf when it has the flock in it's teeth?

I would like to make it clear that the individual, in his attempt to prove he is a prophet, has failed to mention Christ's name, or to give Him glory of such Revelation, and that is the bottom line. All false prophets try to glorify their position, their name, or a stance, not Christ the redeemer. It has to do with pride.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
NO WHERE IN THESE VERSES DOES IT SAY THAT THE TEMPLE WAS TO BE REBUILT BFORE ANTI-CHRIST COMES TO POWER.

I'll show you the verses. They come directly from the very one you have ignored in your speech - Christ.

Matthew 24

4: And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5: For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6: And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7: For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8: All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9: Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10: And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11: And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12: And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13: But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14: And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15: When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16: Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19: And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20: But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Now if you notice verse 15, the abomination of desolation, as spoken by Daniel the PROPHET, in the holy place, is this:

Daniel 8
11: Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
12: And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
13: Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
14: And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
Daniel 12
11: And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Daniel 9
27: And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Notice how the scriptures goes in order. Lets look at Jesus' words, recorded 500 years after Daniel, once more just so you can try to understand.

Matthew 24
15: When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16: Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Where is the holy place, where the sacrifice and oblations are made? Where in history has there been a place where the abomination of desolation occurred? In the sanctuary. Without a temple rebuilt - you have no sanctuary. This is known by both the Jews, Christians, and Muslims, how is it you do not know this? This is basic doctrine, that the Jews temple must be rebuilt, and the beast must cause the abomination that makes desolate.

Further supporting script:

Daniel 7
21: I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
22: Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
23: Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
24: And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
25: And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
26: But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
27: And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
28: Hitherto is the end of the matter. As for me Daniel, my cogitations much troubled me, and my countenance changed in me: but I kept the matter in my heart.

It's clearly spoken in the book of Daniel, and throughout the books of the bible, the times and laws this beast attempts to change, and how through numerous occasions set up an abominatin of desolation within the Holy of Holies. No temple - no abomination of desolation - no antichrist ruling the world. You see this is the final act of the enemy to proclaim himself God within God's sanctuary. Man however, has failed to understand that God's sanctuary comes to every man when he believes in Christ dieing for his sin, or the things we do bad. You know, what we know as good or bad. These are simple traits.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
IT CLEARLY STATES HERE THAT "JERUSALEM' WOULD BE REBUILT, IT DOES NOT MENTION THE TEMPLE.

The only way you can come away with believing this is by ignoring the words of Christ, not reading the scripture gramatically, but instead allegorically, and by interjecting your own theories.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
You need to walk in Revelation Vin, you are a LIAR and a DECIEVER, BLIND and cannot SEE.

No, I need to walk in Christ, as does anyone who desires salvation, you see that's the difference. You have claimed yourself a prophet, and manipulate scripture for your own diabolical purpose, and you have eposed yourself as such. No man who manipulates scripture openly, or interjects theories of the mind, is a prophet of God. You can only be anti-God by doing so.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
I am not saying that this is the MARK currently, but that it will become the MARK once the Anti-Christ takes center stage after the Rapture of the Church.

You see that's where you are wrong self proclaimed prophet. The scriptures are clear that you must "accept" the mark of the beast. This is what separates your eternal destiny. What you are purporting is that anyone who accepts implants right now are accepting the mark of the beast. This is a lie that causes panic amongst those ignorant enough to believe you.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
It is a "FACT" that the "CHIP" is "IN" their skin, just like it is written in Revelations.

As already pointed out to you the Greek translation of "in" does not mean inside the skin but "upon" the skin. You probably didn't bother to read that though. Your furious anger of being a false prophet is getting the better of you.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
It is a "FACT" that this SAME information is contained in a "MICRO CHIP" that can be placed "IN" your "HAND OR FOREHEAD".

Yes microchips can be placed in your head or forehead, please refer to the Greek translation, or orginal extant writing of the verse you are manipulating in Revelation. However, according to Revelation, you must choose the mark to be place "upon" your skin. If someone gets an implant, as some military soldiers are required to do, you are not accepting the mark of the beast.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
You call me a false prophet, yet I have offered proof to back up my position, YOU HAVE OFFERED NOTHING BUT "DISCORD" AND DECEPTION.

The only proof offered here is my showing of the scriptures you have manipulated to the audience. The facts of the world merging into a global empire have been applied since the day Christ was crucified. The jews temple must be rebuilt first, and once it is, it could still be generations before a beast proclaims itself God in the temple. You, self proclaimed prophet, offer the deception. You are not a prophet. I am merely exposing a wolf, as Jesus said " Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves." Matthew 7:15

Acts 20:29
"For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.

For those who are Christian here, you'll notice that self proclaimed prophet has a hard time mentioning the word Jesus, or giving Him due glory. Why is that self proclaimed? I already know the answer.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
If you want to debate about the MARK/CHIP, take it to the debate section and I will expose you for who you really are, "A LIAR AND A DECIEVER"
.

We are debating here and now. If you can't handle this do not post in the forum. That's what the forum is for. It is not however, for you to spread one sided theories, and self proclamations, without an answer to such.

Ok, serioulsy.

Do you honesly believe the literal translation of revelations as destined fact?

If so, how can you debate the accurace of proficy on semantics of verse when this has been translated from a differant language which will, by the very nature of translation, change semantics of the orriginal text? How can you truely understand the verse's meaning witout having first hand knowladge of cultural text and social influence.

Example: 666 being the number of Nero who was the beast of the time widely known for slaughtering Christians and in order to make purchases you had to use his mark. The Roman coins with his image.

Finaly, if the proficies of Revelations is unavoidable that means that the future is set and unchangable, in order for the future to be set then mankind must be devoid of free will. If mankind is devoid of free will then the entire word of the Christian god is false as it's entire pretense is that man has freedom of choise.

your thougths?

Originally posted by MrBunny
Ok, serioulsy.

Do you honesly believe the literal translation of revelations as destined fact?

Yes, simply because half of the prophecy has already come true according to what Jesus has spoke.

Originally posted by MrBunny
If so, how can you debate the accurace of proficy on semantics of verse when this has been translated from a differant language which will, by the very nature of translation, change semantics of the orriginal text?

The texts are Byzantine and Greek. What I will point out that for over a thousand years there has been intense study on the Greek extant manuscripts. If you studied such you would not be asking that question.

Originally posted by MrBunny
Finaly, if the proficies of Revelations is unavoidable that means that the future is set and unchangable, in order for the future to be set then mankind must be devoid of free will. If mankind is devoid of free will then the entire word of the Christian god is false as it's entire pretense is that man has freedom of choise.
your thougths?

That's your take of it, from a theology uneducated, non-Christian point of view.

VIN As already pointed out to you the Greek translation of "in" does not mean inside the skin but "upon" the skin. You probably didn't bother to read that though. Your furious anger of being a false prophet is getting the better of you

And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free
and bond, to receive a mark "IN" their right hand, or in their
foreheads:
You are the Liar VIN, clearly this verse says "IN", your interpretation is a deception, the proof of this is that currently a "CHIP" that is placed "IN" the skin is used for "BUYING". This is far more proof than your misguided assumption that it will be "UPON" the skin.

Yes microchips can be placed in your head or forehead, please refer to the Greek translation, or orginal extant writing of the verse you are manipulating in Revelation. However, according to Revelation, you must choose the mark to be place "upon" your skin. If someone gets an implant, as some military soldiers are required to do, you are not accepting the mark of the beast.

You see that's where you are wrong self proclaimed prophet. The scriptures are clear that you must "accept" the mark of the beast. This is what separates your eternal destiny. What you are purporting is that anyone who accepts implants right now are accepting the mark of the beast. This is a lie that causes panic amongst those ignorant enough to believe you.

Again you "LIE"
Please post where I said that the "Chip" is currently the "Mark"
My comments were to the contrary as seen below!

quote: Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
I am not saying that this is the MARK currently, but that it will become the MARK once the Anti-Christ takes center stage after the Rapture of the Church.

Originally posted by vincere7

Yes, simply because half of the prophecy has already come true according to what Jesus has spoke.

Originally posted by MrBunny
If so, how can you debate the accurace of proficy on semantics of verse when this has been translated from a differant language which will, by the very nature of translation, change semantics of the orriginal text?

The texts are Byzantine and Greek. What I will point out that for over a thousand years there has been intense study on the Greek extant manuscripts. If you studied such you would not be asking that question.

Originally posted by MrBunny
Finaly, if the proficies of Revelations is unavoidable that means that the future is set and unchangable, in order for the future to be set then mankind must be devoid of free will. If mankind is devoid of free will then the entire word of the Christian god is false as it's entire pretense is that man has freedom of choise.
your thougths?

That's your take of it, from a theology uneducated, non-Christian point of view.

I'm impressed that you know so much about my theological education, that you can assume that it is nil, you must be psychic. Or full of yourself... I am thinking the later.

Half the prophecies have come true from Jesus thus the rest must be true as well.. fascinating as people will argue that Nostradamus' prophecies more than half correct.. so apparently Jesus is only right half the time.


You are absolutely right, people have been studying the Greek and Byzantine (you forgot Aramaic, which would have likely been most commonly spoken by Jesus as well as Hebrew for the 1st century) text for thousands of years for an accurate translation...

Tell me.. if you are sure the translations are accurate enough to argue over language semantics..... why would it take thousands of years of debate and argument which still continues. Why argue over something that is agreed on? Unless it is not agreed on and thus inaccurate.

You did get one thing right.. I am not Christian, but I was, and I took the time to really ask myself why, and I dug, and studied, and researched while allowing myself to not be biased by my upbringing and questioning the beliefs I no longer hold.


So, instead of pointing you unknowing finger at my education and knowledge of theological and cultural history, why don't you try rubbing a few lethargic brain cells together and see if you can't come up with an intelligent logical response.

To the "Foolish" , "Unlearned" , "Spiritually Void" and "Blinded"

These are "FACTS" that are beyond refute.

We currently have a "Microchip" that is placed under(in) the skin, that is currently used to "BUY". It can just as easily be used to sell.

The "King James Version" of the Bible accurately predicted this.
It also fortold of these events, wars and rumors of war, earthquakes in divers places, pestilences and famine, nations rising against nations, and that during the Last Days, "KNOWLEDGE" would be increased.
It also states that the Last Days would be like the days of Sodom , for the first time in history we have"Gay Marriage"

What proves the time that we live in is that, it is only through "TELEVISION" that we could know that there are wars and rumors of war, that there are earthquakes happening in "Different" places, that there is pestilences and famine. We are quickly approaching the "One World Government" all is in place, the nations are gathering together under the guise of terrorism.

[edit on 28-7-2005 by Lastday Prophet]

"These are "FACTS" that are beyond refute"

If they are facts of god, then there is no longer need for faith in god...

"And God thougt, but what am I without faith?" and dissappeared in a puff of Logic. 'Adams"

Ok.. I do not have a degree in Psychology so legaly I can not diagnose.. but if you honestly believe that we all have microchips under our skin....

I sincerly suggest that you go to a local hospital and speak with a doctor about your paranoide delusional thinking, because you are failing to reality test and could therefor be a danger to yourself and others.

Seriously, I hope you go get some help.

Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
To the "Foolish" , "Unlearned" , "Spiritually Void" and "Blinded"

These are "FACTS" that are beyond refute.

Your "facts" are actually your "opinion."

Once again, because someone doesn't believe as you do is no reason to consider you are the only one with "truth" and therefore able to insult others with trollish comments.

Acting like a megalomaniac doesn't mean that you truly know all "facts" or "truth", especially when it is only your singular translation of what you have experienced. There are many translations of religion or the bible and to consider your view of it as absolute "truth" or "fact" only demonstrates your ego and lack of diversity.