Wake Up People, We Are Being Decieved

You are right I do take myself far too seriously. see last post heheh

Most ancient text, not only biblical is going to be found in environmentally controlled rooms for their own preservation. A good portion of biblical text is likely to be found in the Vatican vaults. I spent several evening speaking with a couple of professors at UMCP about what they have to go through to get permission to view original manuscripts that are held at the Vatican. You almost have to get a permission slip signed by God before they will let you in to the older documents.

As for our Declaration of independence on display, yea, I think it is an original. Then again it is only less than 300 years old. That’s nothing compared to the dead sea scrolls, manuscripts of Homer, Dante, Plato, Roman Legal Documents from 1st century, etc.

This is were I may disagree with you, I felt that what he meant was more than just being sick of the corruption and hoping for change, looking at the words and phrases he chose are indicative of someone who would not be far from lashing out physically against someone who he considers in opposition to his views. If this is not so, then I do apologize.

Unfortunately, being that this is a text environment we cannot guess at inflection, which makes determining meaning difficult unless you say exactly what you mean. And I am not psychic so I cannot "know what people mean" unless they say, precisely what they mean.

Change is overdue. Or rather government evolution is overdue. Change.... People are afraid of change and people lash out violently when they are afraid so I fear for average people when the zealots get up in arms because it is they that suffer. In unstable environments it is the extremists on either side that are so wrapped up in their glorified self-riotousness that they never see the pain they cause.

I do believe it is time for new views and for someone with the strength of character to lead us out of our current political monopoly. I simply do not wish or advise that it be done by force.

Your thoughts?

Originally posted by MrBunny
Logically can you honestly say that when he commissioned the James translation that he would not manipulate the text as he had done in so many other things?

To form this opinion only proves you have not studied the histoy of the formation of the Textus Receptus, nor the individual Erasmus, who compiled the scripts. Over the years, I have spoken with many individuals like yourself who verbally suggest nonsense, and this is always based on a lack of applied work. It's easy to say such things based on how you view the extant's, and yet to believe this proves you have never studied the scripts, nor the history.

I also find it amusing how others are so easily swayed, like Conspicuouz, who actually believes what you said, that the Papyri are sealed up somewhere where others cannot study the script. You have spoken to professors who have told you as much? I believe you misunderstood them as you do many things here. Anyone can read the Papyri (just not physically handle the Papyri), there are many images available from the Bodmer library, all you need to do is ask. Please do not suggest that we need to physically handle the Papyri, to insure the images we have are not fake, as you will be insulting a thousand years of study and individuals who have spent their entire lives dedicated to the extants. Your comments are simply childish in this respect, as would be of Egyptian chronicles.

Originally posted by MrBunny
The original text is likely in the Vatican vaults and only viewable by a VERY select few for translation and interpretation.

The Papyri for Revelation, p.47, is at the Beatty library. The rest of your comment is extremely stupid:




Can you read Greek? LOL.

Originally posted by MrBunny
Taking all the factors into consideration, somehow you can still say that the prophecies of Revelations are not interpretation but rather exact dictation to be considered literal.

First off you had no factors. Dictation? One only needs to read the script for themselves, just as you would read the Tibetan book of the dead. There is no upheaval over the Tibetan book of the dead, and yet there are many documents in several languages, over a two thousand year period, that record Revelation with little variance. Some call the preservation of thousands of manuscripts in different languages, reading near identical to one another, a miracle, divine intervention. If God does exist, don't you think He would possibly preserve what He wishes to say to man throughout history? This is not news to men of logic, and wisdom, who take the time to indulge in such things, rather than smear things they know little about.

This is no different than a gasoline engine. Many pretend to be mechanics, when they know very little of how a motor works.

Strength of character comes through experience. It's evident you are lacking this quality.

Originally posted by DiRtYDeViL
The mark blah, blah, blah. The Bible blah, blah, blah. Religion is what got us into this mess. If you really want to believe in the hog wash then who is the roman empire of our times? Dah that’s an easy one and it isn’t the European union. With that being said who acts like Nero, came from the same background as Nero and even looks like Nero. You have your great deceiver that most of the brain dead Jesus freaks voted into office. Dam you all to hell for supporting the Antichrist!

[edit on 2-7-2005 by Thomas Crowne]

I have to agree with dirtydevil

This may explain the reason all these evil folks begin to look like this fellow with age.

The new Roman empire will be under the control of the Dragon, The Beast and The False Prophet along with the "TEN KINGS"

Dan 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; 22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom. 23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. 24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are "TEN KINGS" that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. 25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. 26 But the judgment shall sit, and "THEY shall take away "HIS"dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end

Revelation 17: 9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, "HE" must continue a short space. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. 12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are "TEN KINGS", which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as KINGS" one hour with the beast. 13 THESE ( "MEN" ) have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

These verses clearly show that it will be "TEN KINGS" (MEN) , not "Kingdoms" that will rule along with the "DRAGON" "THE BEAST" and "THE FALSE PROPHET"

Notice that their total is "13"

Is it by chance that "THE TEN KINGS" are mentioned in the "13th" verse of the 17th chapter of Revelation ? And that 13 + 17 = "30" which is 10 times the other number I often refer to " 3 " ?


[edit on 30-7-2005 by Lastday Prophet]

Lastday Prophet, it is good to know that I am not alone, we will continue the good fight.

MrBunny, nobody brainwashed me to think this way. It came to me one day, I am born a philosipher. I ask why, I question authority, and I know my freedoms are being taken away. I also know without a shadow of a doubt that I have the right to be free, as does every person. No person can tell me what to do, it is against my right to freedom. This does not mean that we cannot live in a civilized society. Reform is needed, peaceful preferably. Nobody wants to fight. But understand this, if a revolution is necessary, and if I must take up arms then I will. Why? Because fundamentally before anything else, I was born free, I will live free, and my forefathers fought for their freedom. I will NEVER let their fighting go in vain. At this point my friend, we would have to agree to disagree.

Actually as far as dates are concerned, it was as far back as 1976 that the exact scenario for the planes to fly into the World Trade Centre was played out as a "training excercise" right down to the box cutters. Scary stuff.

Originally posted by vincere7

Can you read Greek? LOL.

Thank you for that image as it does illustrate a point. No, I cannot read Greek. I would also wager that none could read sections of that text that are no longer there. (Upper and lower right that clearly no longer remain cutting into a portion of the text.)

Perhaps you are too thick to get point in all of this. There are inevitably going to be differences in translation as well as inherent flaws in understanding meaning behind text to be able to state an absolute literal understanding of ones meaning because of the nature of written word.

Case in point, Tao Te Ching. By Lao Tsu' (do you read Chinese?) there are many translations of his philosophies all with the general feel for the meaning behind each chapter but even between people who read Chinese there is no absolute agreed translation because of the very nature of the text.

It is illogical and quit honestly delusional to think that one can take any text, translate it, and expect a literal understanding.

Even if you did take the closest matching language path, which would likely, be from Greek to Russian to English. Which fortunately would translate very well as Russian stemmed form Greek instead of the Romani languages such as English and for some reason Russian translates easily from Russian to English. However oddly enough not from English back to Russian because of contextual nuances.

However as I have so often found Logical and Critical thinking skills are often lost on those who are so blind as to sweep anything that does not fit within their scope of beliefs under the blanket of "Divine intervention". It is a sadly convent excuse for anyone to afraid to consider an alternative to the foundation of their belief.

You are obviously educated in this field and for that I applaud you, but it is dishearten to find someone who is so incredibly unable to step outside the raw data that has been ploughed into their brain and to use it to discover a greater truth.

This learning should be used for more than regurgitation but to support new ideas, new theories. Take what you know and then honestly look at the people who have guided this information over the centuries, ask why they did what they did, could they have manipulated it, would they have manipulated it.

Do not be so blind as to think that because someone claims to be holy that they are good. The greatest flaw against the accuracy of the word of god (any god/belief) is the nature of man. Accept that first and accept a clearer vision of the world.




This is no different than a gasoline engine. Many pretend to be mechanics, when they know very little of how a motor works.

Strength of character comes through experience. It's evident you are lacking this quality.



Even worse is when a Chemist who understands very well all aspects of the nature and effects of Gas and it's combustion, thinks that is enough to understand the Engine as a whole.

Do not presume to think that you are even remotely capable knowing the extent of my experience, by stating so only shows your own ignorance.

Originally posted by gottr

MrBunny, nobody brainwashed me to think this way. It came to me one day, I am born a philosipher. I ask why, I question authority, and I know my freedoms are being taken away. I also know without a shadow of a doubt that I have the right to be free, as does every person. No person can tell me what to do, it is against my right to freedom.

At this point my friend, we would have to agree to disagree.

Yes, you are free, absolutely, but that freedom ends the moment that it infringes on mine. I too am free, but that does not mean that I have the right to walk into your house and take your things or hurt your family just because I don't think the laws against theft or assault should impend my freedom.

I will defend my family, my friends, my honor, and myself if it is attacked. That does not mean I will attack others because of a perceived threat.

Example, if I am walking with my wife and someone stupid enough to try and mug us with a knife, bat, whatever, I will very quickly disable that individual with every ounce of training I have.

However, I am not going to kick some guy in the head because he happens to be walking towards us on the sidewalk.

Be aware, be alert, and take all action necessary to legally control your environment. Violence is ALWAYS a last resort and if for defense only.

I have no argument to agree to disagree, I disagree with many people, and such is life, neh?

For anyone to say that the King James version of the bible is misinterpretated is misleading to say the least.
These are "FACTS"
The King James version says that there would be a "MARK" given "IN" the hand or forehead.
The "CHIP" can be placed "IN" the hand or forehead, it is currently being used to "BUY" and can just as easily be used for selling. It can be easily scanned by the terminals that are currently in place at most business's.
The King James version also says that there would also be a "NUMBER",
credit cards, debit cards and smart cards are a series of numbers that allow you to "BUY" and on the internet allow you to sell at sites like E-BAY and many others.
These are FACTS that cannot be refuted. There are many other facts fortelling this current generation that are accurately predicted in the King James version. I could list them, but this thread is not about that, but about "DECEPTIONS".

VIN and BUNNY seem determined to take this thread into another direction, I will no longer stand for it. I will begin to hit "IGNORE" for those that would attempt to take this thread off subject. LDP

Absolulty, and this discussion about the context and literal translation of text are at the core of deception.

To say that the King James translation it is irrefutable is in of itself deception for it is not an original text but rather the commissioned translation into English by an individual who had the power, inclination, and predisposition to manipulate the translation to fit his interpretation.

The fact that there are different translations of the Bible is in of itself proof that any one translation cannot be accepted as literal.

Yes, you are free, absolutely

The current state of things proves otherwise.

I said I have the right to be Free, not that I am Free.

[edit on 1-8-2005 by gottr]

Originally posted by gottr

Yes, you are free, absolutely

The current state of things proves otherwise.

I said I have the right to be Free, not that I am Free.

[edit on 1-8-2005 by gottr]

*shakes head in exasperation* sigh.. fine.. remove "you are free" add "You, have the right to be free." read rest of post for the actual point.

religous context.....

Why are some books of the bible not talked about, infact they are completly disregarded because the books don't 'jive' with the current cathoilc message?

[edit on 1-8-2005 by ferretman]

What exactly was your point?

That does not mean I will attack others because of a perceived threat.

This is what the US is doing now. Not only are they attacking a fictional enemy but also our rights.

My point is reform through legal avenews within the system.. not revolution. Not at the cost of the innocent within our country.

Normally, I'm not a nuts and bolts conspiricy theorist! However, I'm beginning to think you might be right. Isn't it just a bit strange how quickly the US government moved on from fighting real terrorist in Afganastan to "looking for" imagionary WMD's in Iraq! Disturbing isn't it?

Has anyone thought that maybe George W. Bush is the one who's taking US all for a ride?

Think about it! First, there is his very questionable background:

*Membership in Skull and Bones since his college days. Skull and Bones is a very secretive society which has been looked into by ATS before.

*A questionable Military Service Record. Many people question if he really served. people from his unit don't remember a Liutenet George W. Bush.

*A very starange and questionable first election to the Priesidency. Reguardless if there was frad or not (which is irrelivent at this point), everyone knows something strange happened in Florida back in 2000

Then, there is the war on terror:

* Why did the military switch from Afganistan to Iraq so fast?

* Where are the WMD's he claimed were in Iraq?

* He helped push the Patroit Act through congress fast didn't he? Strange when you consider that he claims to be trying to "Preserve and Expand" our Freedom. Thoughts?

* Terrorist Aren't using missiles, yet now a missile sheild is a priority?

* He insists on taking action to enforce UN resolutions without their approval. Just a bit odd?

Wake up is right! We're being taken for the ride of a lifetime, and George W. Bush is in the drivers seat! Bush is a hell of a lot sneakier than people give him credit for!


Tim

[edit on 1-8-2005 by ghost]

Bush is not that sneeky.... the people arround him are.

Look who is truely profiting from all this.

Originally posted by MrBunny
Bush is not that sneeky.... the people arround him are.

I beg to Differ! If Bush isn't sneaky, he has to be the dumbest Idiot on the face of this planet! Look at some of the stuff he's done:

-Wars over weapons that don't exist!
-Claiming he had proof of the WMD in Iraq, which still have never been found!
-No bid contracts to Known friends of his adminstration!
-Pass laws that limit the Freedoms he's supposed to be PROTECTING!
-Shifting a war before achiving the main goals and opening up another war front at a bad time!

Either Bush is sneeky or he's stupid! Which is it?

Tim

He is not sneeky.... what does that leave?

I have had to deal with the loathsum little cockroach since before he was even Governer of Texas back when his dad bought his way into owning the Rangers.

He is about as sharp as a sack full of wet mice.

GHOST, in reply to your earlier post concerning Bush being a member of the "Skull and Bones"
If I remember correctly, the Skull and Bones is a fraternity at "YALE"
Bush just gave BOLTON the job at the U.N. (must be short for unamerican)
Bolton also went to Yale, a coincidence I quess, I wonder if he too is a member of the Skull and Bones ? Several of the last Presidents attended Yale.
I am glad you are beginning to see the light and through the deceptions here is a interesting read.
www.hourofthetime.com...

[edit on 1-8-2005 by Lastday Prophet]