Bob Lazar, some credibility at last?

Sounds like an excellent topic for a research project.

I've been one of the few Lazar supporters here for a while....mostly just on gut instinct I'm afraid. The more things add up with him, the more other things tear him down. Quite the enigma, and now he's pretty silent on the matter....

By the way, if you're looking for his old site (now offline), here's an almost exact replica of the former site....

web.archive.org...

for those wanting to learn more of his previous claims...
(EDIT: it seems buggy at times...)

Note for researchers, Bob's company is in Sandia, NM (United Nuclear Scientific Supplies, LLC) and was founded in 1986 (even though their site says 1998)...

There is another United Nuclear (United Nuclear Corporation)in Gallup founded in the 70's and this is a different entity, so be careful to not mix these two up... This latter company has been fined by the NRC before, and dealt with the EPA, etc. but it's a different company than Bob's...

On another note, I've been doing some cursory checking to see if I can confirm the following...

1. approximate financial power of this company
2. physical facilities as claimed
3. proof of government R&D contracts
4. verification of supplying to the military, etc.

Haven't found anything concrete yet, so I wouldn't assume this is a mutli-million dollar company yet. This may have been due to some confusion with the other company of the same name, and also in NM (which IS a multimillion dollar company, but is in Gallup). The fact that the site uses PayPal instead of their own secured system is one indicator it may not be a very large company or have government R&D contracts. However, I haven't seen anything one way or the other yet that is concrete...just an FYI.....

[edit on 6-9-2005 by Gazrok]

Gazrok - Unfortunately I haven't had time to look into it yet but the operation as its desribed on their site looks like a Drop Ship company. Drop ship companies generaly don't buy,store, and ship from their facilities. They take the orders and forward them taking a % off the sales price. Those are interesting products to drop ship though. Pretty niche market. It can actually be a profitable business if marketed right.

On another note, they could "technicaly" sell to those government facilities. If those agencies purchase indirectly through their same drop ship network or directly from their prime supplier, the statement 'legaly' holds up.

Gazrok - Unfortunately I haven't had time to look into it yet but the operation as its desribed on their site looks like a Drop Ship company

That was the impression I got as well...

Initially, I had heard about big government contracts, etc. but I started looking into the company just a little today, and I didn't see anything to support such a claim. Again, I think some confusion could be caused with the OTHER United Nuclear company, which IS a big time contractor, etc.

It wasn't until actually reading both the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) docs and the NRC (Nuclear Regulatory Commission) docs about THAT United Nuclear, that it became apparent the two companies were completely different....

[edit on 6-9-2005 by Gazrok]

The pros and cons of the Lazae story are interesting. If he didn't work for area 51, he knows too much.

Element 115 may be the key, some scientist was on C2C awhile back and said that the element did effect gravity in experiments. Lucky guess on Lazar's part? Doubtful.

Most physicists vehemently disagree on a stable form of 115. However, the reports of it being created in the lab haven't been confirmed (because if so, it only existed for a fraction of a second). Lazar contends that it exists in a stable form, just not here on Earth. I'm no physicist or chemist, and it's been some years since my college chem class, but until we can say for certain we've made some, I'd say the jury is still out on it...but strongly leaning towards Ununpentium being "Unobtainium"... (at least in a stable form).

I saw a story in a link once that claimed 115 had been announced as formally discovered. It wa snot called the name lazar said. I thought it was a reputable source and even showed it to someone who doens't follow any of this... hmmm....

Bob Lazar is an enigma. Apparently he

1). Has more than a high school education, whether it is formal or not. One without any education doesnt tend to go around inventiong solar powered hydrogen generators, so there is definately a bright light on in his head.
2). Still has some financial and business connections with the black side of the military. His company openly claims to have contracts with military entities that cant be discussed in public.
3). He was willing to put himself and his family through a horrendous period of ridicule and scoffing for much longer than was needed to prove his point. I would have given up on the Area 51 claims long before he did, which to me is a profound indication of his passion about the subject matter.
4). Has had some of the more subtle claims he has made about Area 51 corroborated by other sources since he "came out". Small details like procedural base operations and personel types etc.
5). Is still a successful man irregardless of what anyone else wants to think. Has not wavered in the least bit by the debunking and ridicule. No, he wont talk about the late "80's and early "90's anymore but he seems to have motored on just fine.

I am not going to sit on the fence or hang out in the gray, foggy areas of thought about whether or not to believe him and his claims, past or present. I am going to take it all at face value at this point and believe what he is and what he has claimed to experienced in the past to be true. Simply because of what he appears to have accoplished for himself since then. There is absolutely no reason anyone on this planet would willingly continue to be publicly lampooned as long as he was if there wasnt something there, something to his story, his claims. I mean, he was like a man on a mission for what, 4-6 years? To what end? What, did the govt. tell him that if he kept up his shenanigans for a decade that they would make it right for him somewhere down the road??? Wink, wink, nudge, nudge. Hehe, yeah right, our govt. is real good at appeasing individuals isnt it?

IMHO, I think we had better pay close attn. to Bob and others like him. This planet is without a doubt littered with crackpots and inventors selling the next miracle product. But if we arent careful, if we dont stop painting all people with fantastic claims of changing the future or solving some insurmountable problems from his garage in BFE, we will as a race end up throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Some if not most of these people are hands down different, eccentric and a bit kooky in behavior but that shouldnt disqualify them as intelligent. Its called working outside the box and its a lot spookier working that way versus working/thinking using conventional means. These backyard/garage inventors dont have the safety net of corporate money, group mentality (unless one considers the net their group) and dumptruck loads of resources from which to draw upon. OMG, I'm in a rant, arent I? Sorry bout that.....

Summary: Bob and guys like him are worth keeping an eye on, for our own good.

Lazar and his backgroung at S4 is only disputed by some -- not all. As I have said many times see his emp no last three characters. Read Dan Birisch's account at S4 to know Lazar was there. Lazar though now seemingly silent, was at LosAlamos's Lab and in the directory. Though he was hired by a professor to work under the cover of EG&G, Nevada.

Dallas

Seems to me there have been a few Lazar supporters here. But I must suggest with respect, you were not one of them.

Gazrok, you have never in all I have read of your respected UFO/EBE posts suggested you believed Lazar's story re S4. If you do now I think that's great as it shows an open mind from one of the more respected researchers on ATS.

Respectfully

Dallas

I have never found his story credible.

Now, for the record, I knew someone who about that time worked for JPL and made much of his connection with JPL. As it turned out, he was a janitor.

Now, take a good look at that salary. It's not a believable figure for a single month or for a full year back then. A reasonable salary for someone employed in government (as I was then) is about $30k/year. Consultant fees wouldn't be in that small range, either. Monthly wages for a clerk or janitor -- maybe.

He's undeniably an intelligent person, but his actual knowledge is poor. And his claims about element 115 are just silly.

If you study the periodic table, you notice a progression in characteristics (boiling point, melting point, etc, etc.) Nothing that Lazar said about 115 ever matched up to the properties of the real element. And yes, you can measure it even if it's unstable.

I think he picked 115 as the number because he figured we'd never make it. And he quit talking about UFOs after the UFO community itself started branding him a fraud.

Lazar was not a literal janitor, but was assumed a low level engineer by Dan Burisch, which dan said the high level people deemed a Janitor as being a low level engineer.

Dallas

EDIT BURISCH re Lazar/S4:

I saw a guy out on the tarmac outside of the Galileo and 4-1 area who was barefoot. He was just standing and staring off into the distance. This was as we were coming in from a helicopter. They keep you within a very confined walking area. This was before they started taking the buses, we were choppered in. When I saw him subsequent to that when he did the famous (Las Vegas Channel 8 TV reporter George) Knapp videos, it could have been him. This was early on. This was ­ I can't prove it. I couldn't positively identify him. I am aware of his name being mentioned out there and it was associated with the term, 'bottle washer,' which means an engineer ­ but not a Working Group Leader or anything of the kind. They would have said a 'director' or a 'geek.' I was called a geek. His name was mentioned. I heard the name 'Lazar.' I did not hear Bob. I heard Lazar and it was not 'laser.' It was 'luh-ZAHR.' But I never had any interaction with him or anyone else from Galileo, Side Kick or radionics.



[edit on 6-9-2005 by Dallas]

That account is so inconclusive and self denying its hard to tell if the guy believes what had happened.
When you cut through the grist the best conclusion is that someone with the last name, most likely Lazar was a "bottle washer" at the facility. Although Lazar is not a common last name, this guy really goes out of his way to distance himself from his own testimony.
it could have been him - This was, I can't prove it. I couldn't positively identify him.- I heard the name 'Lazar.' I did not hear Bob.
Is there a way to check the number Lazars or similar last names employed there at the time?

In one of the videos I have (I Think I still have?), there's a video shot of the personnel book and it only showed one 'Larzar, Robert'.

As I have said many times and in a frustating way -- the web and it's UFO/EBE research cults views are and have been for a while, turning into bones and skeletons.

Dallas

I think the largest argument against him is the fact that he said that the inhabitants of Zeta-Reticuli 2 were the silver colored, black-eyed "grey" beings. In the Betty Hill abduction, there were sketches made of the creatures they saw, which were different. Betty Hill also sculpted a statuette of the "leader", that she called Junior. Junior alone is proof this guy is a fake.

Seems to me there have been a few Lazar supporters here. But I must suggest with respect, you were not one of them.

Gazrok, you have never in all I have read of your respected UFO/EBE posts suggested you believed Lazar's story re S4. If you do now I think that's great as it shows an open mind from one of the more respected researchers on ATS.

You'd have to look through a lot of threads. Lazar research is what first brought me here to ATS in fact (many moons ago, hehe... ). While I've constantly pointed out inconsistencies with his story, I've also pointed out some amazing coincidences that seem just too much for him to know. I've pretty much been on the fence with Lazar for a LONG time, ever since I first bought the little Testor model of his "Sport Model" and read the little pamphlet inside.... I've teetered this way and that on that fence, as more info was presented...but I've never said (as far as I'm aware), that he was an absolute fraud.

S-4 is one of the big reasons. There is other evidence to it's existence, though scarce. As a Lockheed brat, one of my best friends was there with his dad (who used to work at Groom) for quite some time. He referred to a rumored area of Papoose Mountain called "the hangar", and this was all WAY before I ever heard the name Lazar (and this "hangar" was mentioned by my buddy in the early 80's, like 81 or 82). In reading the little pamphlet, I thought back to that comment, and was simply stunned. Could S-4 be "the hangar"? Who knows? It's not a very substantial piece of evidence, granted, but it's those little things that keep cropping up with Lazar's story, that keep me on the fence. My gut tells me there's something to his story, even though a logical examination of the facts leans the other way.....

[edit on 7-9-2005 by Gazrok]

My opinion has been similar to Gazrok's. When I first read his stuff many years ago, it instinctively made sense to me and felt right. There has been plenty of debunking over the years and I was surprised to see so much support in this thread.

My MO for ATS style information is to read everything I can get my hands on and file it away and see if things get corroborated by more information.

Rather off topic, I was doing research on the TR-3B and I stumbled upon ATS in end 2004, since then I was hooked

I was on the fence as well about Lazar in the past, I even believed for a while he was indeed a fraud, but this really changed my opinion.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Bob Lazar is an honest scientist and victim of the government, not a disinformation agent.

Purely speculation. It very well may turn out that he was a fraud . Until such a time occurs, nobody can say for sure whether he's genuine or not. Amazing things can be accomplished nowadays with state-of-the-art technology and knowledge of computer hacking. I'd like to believe everything he's said but the UFO community hasn't exactly been known for producing more truth than fiction.

This site seems interesting in regards to Element 115.
I personally don't know much about this subject and i've only started looking into it but this site seems relative to this discussion and takes itself pretty seriously (while having some good backup for their claims):

www.gravitywarpdrive.com...



Figure 8:
Bob Lazar and Ken Wright Displaying
“Sport Model” Flying Disc
Anti-Matter Reactor Model

REally nice to hear something positive about the guy for a change.