Germany's Awesome Power.

Germany is a very astonishing country, many times they have been destroyed only to rebuilt in a relatively short amount of time and come back for more =)

And about WW1, some people think the US came in and saved the day. Not downplaying their significance, certainly victory would not have been certain without American involvment. But the USA forces coming in the western front to save the day? The American Expeditionary forces faced an already battered and tired Germany. Blockages by the royal navy have crippled the German economy, people refused to do labor, there were no reserve troops left, riots were breaking out, when America entered the war, Germany was just waiting to be pushed down.

Yeah, they did helped finish off the Kaiser's army. But it wasn't THAT astonishing.

Originally posted by SilverDeath
Germany is a very astonishing country, many times they have been destroyed only to rebuilt in a relatively short amount of time and come back for more =)

And about WW1, some people think the US came in and saved the day. Not downplaying their significance, certainly victory would not have been certain without American involvment. But the USA forces coming in the western front to save the day? The American Expeditionary forces faced an already battered and tired Germany. Blockages by the royal navy have crippled the German economy, people refused to do labor, there were no reserve troops left, riots were breaking out, when America entered the war, Germany was just waiting to be pushed down.

Yeah, they did helped finish off the Kaiser's army. But it wasn't THAT astonishing.

I find it astonishing that the US is still owed debt from WWI and WWII.

The USa took advantage of others suffering during the world wars. I have stated this in other threads and yet noone has challenged this argument. The USA sold supplies to the struggling countries and eliminated it's European economic competitors. Slowly one by one the European powers fell and the USA grew strong off supplies being sold and arms. In ww2 the USa only converted a fraction of it's now powerful industry to wartime industry, estimated 30 percent of it's industry. While the other 70 percent kept on manufacturing and boosting it's economy. This occured while the European powers had over 85 percent of their industry in wartime mode. They bore the brunt and sacrificed their economy for the good of the world.

That is why the US made a statement by producing nukes to scare Russia at the end of the war sicne russia had produced a huge conventional army because of industry change.

This is the sole reason why the USa is the strongest nation today. If it wasn't for the worl wars the US would be behind Britain and Germany.

Originally posted by Uk_United
The USa took advantage of others suffering during the world wars. I have stated this in other threads and yet noone has challenged this argument. The USA sold supplies to the struggling countries and eliminated it's European economic competitors.

The rest of Europe was either getting invaded by Germany or having its trade lines attacked by Germany. Without the US sending over supplies its very doubtful that the Allied Countries would have survived as long as they did.

Slowly one by one the European powers fell and the USA grew strong off supplies being sold and arms. In ww2 the USa only converted a fraction of it's now powerful industry to wartime industry, estimated 30 percent of it's industry. While the other 70 percent kept on manufacturing and boosting it's economy. This occured while the European powers had over 85 percent of their industry in wartime mode. They bore the brunt and sacrificed their economy for the good of the world.

You have to remember US had a deep recession in the 1920s and WWII was seen as a European problem by many Americans. The US was still owed high amounts of money by Europe on WWI debts.

That is why the US made a statement by producing nukes to scare Russia at the end of the war sicne russia had produced a huge conventional army because of industry change.

Russia and US were singing from the same hymn sheet by the end of the war. 26 million or so Russians had been killed in WWII, hardly a major threat to the US.

This is the sole reason why the USa is the strongest nation today. If it wasn't for the worl wars the US would be behind Britain and Germany.

The USA was the strongest Economy in the world by far before WWI.Germany was the strongest in Europe and the rest of Europe saw this threat thus stopped Germany expanding its territories other than a few in Africa. There is no way they could of out expanded the US economy seeing as the US is self sufficient for natural resources and Germany is heavily reliant on outside sources.

According to history books and sites the ranking of economic and military stats looked as follows:

1.Germany
2.Britain
3.US

During ww1 the US took over the European powers. IF germany had not devastated herself and if Britain had retained her empire they would of been ahead. Remeber Britain controlled 1 third of the world's population and one quarter of it's landmass while having complete power on the trade routes East.

Sorry I emant to say that the ranks are based on military and economic power combined.

Obviously the USA might have overtaken Europe in terms of economic factors soley since the US economy was a peacetime economy and their military was very scarce. Countries like Britain however had an empire to run and needed a large navy.

In 1914 USA had no overseas alliances. The President had declared a state of nuetrality because they were concerened about the large amount of citizens born in Austria and Germany. Many political leaders wanted to extend USAs isolationalist policy and their secretary of state was pacifist and refused to increase its armed forces.

Of the WWI war debt Uk still owes $14.5 billion and the rest of Europe owes $18.5 billion. None of this is getting repayed. In 1916 exports to Europe earned the US $3.2 billion. Hardly a good business ideal.


As for Germany they wanted to expand and no other country wanted Germany taking any economic gain. Thats why Germany ended up with only a few African countries.

So if WWI was to be avoided then Europe would have to made deals with Germany but what if they didnt want this and put Germany under sanction, crippling its economy due to Germanys heavy reliance on outside sources for natural resources. This however is one of the main reason sanctions werent used. Germany was one of the biggest buyers of goods in Europe so who else would buy if Germany wasnt.
Europes answer.....Slap Germany down and put it in its place where it was wanted.

Uk United...you are joking right. The US owes Europe its finest blood and its production gratis..automatically ..like a default setting on this computer. If not we, just as another default setting ,must allow Europe to heap huge guilt burdens on ourselves to compensate and then expect handouts gratis.
I will tell you UK United...Americans ..historically are a very ignorant people when concerns history ..almost any history ..even our own. But there are a handful of us who do know the history of certain things. I for one know some of the history of the Crown. I dont mean the Royals. I mean the Mercantile group who operated out of Olde London surrounded by the Bank of England and its subsidarys , like the Soong family of China, also Lloyds of London ..who insured merchantile shipping world wide.

The history of England when serving the merchantile association of London or the "Crown" is a shady confidential history often shrouded in rewritting of history...some of it is involved in the Opium Wars which many Americans ignorantly think is England trying to fight opium production and distribution. It is exactly the opposite. Nations and foreign diplomacy were created and destroyed on the Opium buisness as England and the Crown controlled her trading empire. England/the Crown did not brook any interference in its world wide buisness and always kept for herself the "Lions" share while distributing very little to her colonies. The Crown colonies themselves were some of the worst ...verses say the Commonwealths.
The Ottoman Question in the begining of the 1900s is another example of very shady British dealing in geo politics.
Since about 1898 the United States has become a world wide partner in the Crowns buisness and a bootlackey to do the protection buisness when the Crown gets in over her whoreish head and British forces cannot handle it themselves. The United States replaced the role of the French in the Crowns buisness by the end of WW1 when the French were bled out in the trenchs of Europe and could not support the war effort. I is not widely known but the French lost so many men dying for the Crown against the Hun that the French army went on strike. Soon the United States was politically induced to enter the war and replace the French and it has been so ever since.

Go back to the first Gulf war and watch the Videos..if you can even find them or read the reports. George Bush the senior was going to do very little....about it..until Margret Thatcher came to America and the two met at the Aspen Institute, a British think tank, and when George Bush went in he was a dove ..coming out he was a Hawk. George got his orders from Maggie and she straightened him out as to where the power lay. I noticed it right away.
The United States through olde English family ties going back to the Deleno family and others who have maintained British Colonial era loyalties and by 1898/99 begun to secretly give up the Monroe Doctrine and join England in a global strategy titled "Anglo Saxon Superiority and Rule of the World." Through Economic conquest ...controlling manufacturing , banking , insurance , and trade routes....in any commodities.
This has been the role of England and particularly the Crown since the defeating of the Spanish Armada and the demise of Spain as a world wide power.
The other name of the Crown ..the mercantile association is "The City"

UK United ..you use the same standard technique as do our very liberal left internationalist politicians..it comes from the same stable of thought. Someone owes you ..if not ..you heap great burdens of guilt/victimization on them.
I dont buy it...from our whoredom politicians here ..much less from Europe.

Look at it t his way UK UNited...American is the only nation dumb enough to go to war and not bring back the spoils of war. You know the ancient title....."To the Victors go the Spoils".
Over and over ..we bring back thousands and thousands of bodies but not new spoils or territories. Only Americans can be educated into this kind of dumbness ..and it takes education to pull this one off. We obviously fight these wars as a junior partner ..for someone else.

This is obvious in Iraq...as the oil to which one would think we would have some kind of access...is not flowing. Otherwise it would be reflected at the pump. The obvious conclusion is that the oil is not desired to flow but be kept off the market for now so as not to depress prices yet keep competitors out. Competitors..ie the French and Germans. The French and Germans had found ways to access oil and work outside the controlled markets. Oil is a controlled market just like diamonds. The "sisters" of oil ..including BP/Shell do not tolerate independents in the oil buisness ..it is a closed shop. They will send nations to war to protect their investments.
This is not a new concept ..it is just not one taught in most schools in lieu of how "wonderful a world it could be if we all just got along"

Take a look at Japan between WW1 and WW2. Japan was the only other nation with a large naval fleet and one equipped with Aircraft Carriers. How did they learn to build them so quickly and even fly airplanes, navigate the open seas. Not a small accomplishment by any means. Only two nations prior to Japan had developed the Aircraft carrier. England and America. The Japanese had to learn this from the English and Americans. The Japanese were induced as were Americans to be junior partners in the British contol of the orient and to be a local policemen function in looking over British or Crown intrests in the Orient. But the Japaneses realized they were getting shortsheeted. The Crown was keeping the lions share. By the 1930s the Japanese decided to go it alone and take the raw materials they needed for their industries. Except that most of the locations in the Orient where the raw materials were ...were in the areas claimed by the Crown. Any look at a map of the Orient in that time period will clear this up.

Uk United..dont ever try to imply to me about America being a hog or taking the world..for itself. Most Americans will sit back in ignorance and dumbness listening to this drivel. Thier problem is that they went to public schools and gotten the standard brainwashing. I did too..but I got over it.
Your stance doesnt wash in the overview of the larger history of England and the Crown.
Some people posting on these boards are so dumb ..they think all this weaponry and technology makes their nations great...it does not. Russia proves this. It is the political will to wisely use or not use it ...and the industries it is based upon.
Political will..if you like..character. Politics means buisnesses...merchantilism.not what we see on the nightly news. Often merchantilism means whoredom...history is replete with this example if one knows where to look.


Thanks,
Orangetom

Post Script.

By whoredom..I mean in the olde ancient sense..not the modern public education nonsense.

Whoredom...the buying and selling of the souls of a people or nation/nations.

remember this when you heap guilt/trips ie victimization on others. It comes across as UN Whoredom.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by Uk_United
During ww2 the might of German blitzkreig failed to defeat a few AA guns and poorly equipped home guard. The British air force was outnumbered almost 20:1 at the start and yet they still won.

Firstly, the British air force wasn't outnumbered 20:1. Secondly, most of the German planes during all of WWII were bombers, while other countries had air forces that used mostly fighters. That's how Great Britain won.

Originally posted by Uk_United
I am most certain Britain would win.

Then think again. Our aircraft is as good as yours, your navy is not the best in the world, our navy is close to yours, we have the best tanks in the world and we are the most disciplined nation in the world. You may win a defense war because of your islandish location, but you will never win an offensive war against us unless the US helps you.

And now to all of you Britons:
You are in no way better than we are, so stop talking about fighting us.

All I know is that Germany was probably brought to where it is now, militarily speaking, because it was the virtual barrier between the Soviet Union and Western Europe. When NATO needed a place to stick its first response forces they stationed them in Germany. The US actually had a great number of forces there during the Cold War. The training and exchange of weapon system technology was given high priority during those years. I'm not saying Germany wouldn't have such great forces if it weren't for the NATO nations, but it sure didn't hurt. I have much respect for their military.

Germany took part in 16 wars (if you count the conquests of German emperors in the Middle Ages as one war). Out of those 16 wars, Germany won 12. So Germany's percentage of winning is 75%. That's one of the highest percentages in the world.

I think some people take this stuff way too personally. And I'm not saying anyone in particular. It's just an observation.

Originally posted by soapydodger
Frances army was only saved in WWI by the Dutch wrecking their own rail network once the Germans invaded. This meanyt that Germany couldnt get troops and supplies to the front line fast enough and a stalemate broke out on the Western Front.

Where did you get this information? I sure hope it wasn't your history-teacher or something. If the Dutch blew up theur railroads, it wouldn't have mattered. If you go from Germany to France trough Hollland, it's no suprise you lose the war. You end up in the North-Sea that way. No, the Germans went trough Belgium (you know, where Bastogne is, the country where us troops succesfully crossed German borders with being pushed back). The Belgiums blew up their tracks to slow down German advancement. I just wanted to set this right, don't hold any grudges at the Dutch or something. But seriously, you know about Belgium right?

Originally posted by Uk_United
Are you aware that the situation of Islamic immigration to the netherlands has become so bad that just under 50 percent of the population is now Islamic? Did you know that due to this all dutch restaurants and clothing stores are now going out of business?

Whoever gave you that information needs to be fired from his job, put on your ignore-list or banned from your circle of friends. Why? Because he's serious lier.

This site claims 4.4% muslims.
This one 5.8% in 2004
This site, wich I found trough the official Dutch geovernment site, claims 6%.

Originally posted by Wodan
dumbasses, I dont see where germany did more "bad" stuff than any other european nation...

Why only europe? Didn't bad things happen because of Colombia? Iran? Israël? China? Russia? South-Africa? The USA?

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Now, back on-topic. My beliefs are that Germany made such great progress after every war because EVERYTHING was destroyed. It's the best thing that can happen to you in times of growth like you experience after such wars. You simply have the most modern equipment around. Everything you begin with is state of the art machinery. Throw in a couple of financial geniouses from abroad, the spirit to work and the queest for absolute perfection. That makes a boom on your industrie.

[edit on 19-7-2005 by CrazyOrange]

Germany is awsome and i believe that they have been the best fighters and that have had the capacity to take over Europe 2 times, but both times they failed to have the necessary leader.

Hmm,

This thread seems to depend on history from the middle ages to back up a point, if you wish to do that, so be it, but I have to imform you that this means nothing, army's change, people change, again for you feeling the need to go back to the middle ages to back up a point, it merely shows that you are trying to cover up for the more recent screw ups.

If we where to take wars in this last century, Britain has only lost one conflict in the last 100 years, germany has lost two. That puts a different slant on your figures doesn't it.

As for your military, I have actually have had some time in Germany and worked with some of your Armed Forces, I have to admit that they are a very professional arm, I agree that due to its location after WW2 it was fed all the best technology to help hold back the Soviet Forces, without that I have doubts that this country could have recovered, quite as well as they have now. Your airforce are similar in equipment and close in training, even thought they are reducing the training hours for your pilots. I won't speak for your navy as I am limited as to what I know, but on the most part I was of the opinion that she only had a coastal navy, then on to your army, its well equiped and trained, a respected enemy or ally in any ones book, but I would have to doubt your comment about your tanks, maybe during WW2 not today, I still rate the Challenger 2, Abram and the French Lercu. I am sure you will counter most of my comments here, but what the hell.

- Phil

Gooseuk, I'm not saying I need the Middle Ages to back up the point, but the Middle Ages are also a part of history.

Someone asked "what would happen if Germany gets nuked".

I'll say what would.

Firstly, Germany would investigate and prove who conducted the attack.

Secondly, there would be a forced detention for all Muslims.

Next, all Germany's neighbours would be forced to comply with German regulations, or would face full economic sanctions, which would destroy their economies.

Next, assuming the source of the attack would be determined, that country would face German retaliation. If it was a power like Russia, demands of nuclear regulations would be made. If it was a weak country like GB or Iran, they would be reduced to rubble.

Next, Germany would join the US in attacking any country suspected of harbouring terrorists.


[edit on 13-8-2005 by AtheiX]