My personal view is that if god exists and christians are willing to listen to his rules and ideals but not support cloning is completely hypercritical.

My main point is that lets say we create a hybrid species of half human half dolphin for example.
Now judging from what some christians views on cloning are ("we should'nt play god") what has god done?

He created life but just cause he created us does it mean that we have to listen to his views and rules?

using the above example if we created life and that life became intelligent does it mean we have the right to impose rules on them, mould them in our own image or let them become a independent species?

In my personal belife we have the power to create life lets do it spread life, it just anoys me when christians are against things like cloning and playing god when there god did the same thing.

Happy debating

God = God
Human =Human
God > Human
Human < God
God Rules humans
Humans don’t rule God
Not living up to God’s rules = Sin


Your logic is flawed in that it is wrong for humans to play god, but God is God no playing involved. Him making us does not mean that its ok for us to make a lower species and call ourselves their God, if this where the case then God would have told Adam he was a god to the Lesser creatures of the garden, but he did not he placed them their to have authority and be a care taker.

God is not required to live up to your human idea of what is just, right or wrong its the other way around.


[edit on 6/29/2005 by defcon5]

To most religions which believe in a single God/Creator there is a tendency to separate God from all creation, as if that entity just came along, saw a vacuum, and decided to build a universe there.

Then, when God was finished, He/She/It decided 'job well done' and perched on a throne out there somewhere to watch it all and keep tabs.

But what if God is NOT seperate from creation...?

What if God is the creation? What I mean is...as a Pantheist, I believe that everything, including us, actually IS the Creator.

By that thinking, as we discover the miracles of life (genetics,RNA, etc) we are only imitating the will of the creator and following His/Her/It's example.

very very good reply i did'nt know there was a name for us a Pantheist lol cool

Originally posted by defcon5
Him making us does not mean that its ok for us to make a lower species and call ourselves their God, if this where the case then God would have told Adam he was a god to the Lesser creatures of the garden, but he did not he placed them their to have authority and be a care taker.

Right. Giving man dominion over all life on earth would have been like at least the 26th thing He said if that were the case.

1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

You = Wrong

rant i was'nt talking about all life on earth i was talking about life we created if they became intelligent then it would be the right thing to do to let them live by there own rules

edit:whoops sorry thought u were talking to me

[edit on 29-6-2005 by klain]

Oh I know Klain, using strict Christianity as a premise you're right.

It's an open source code for morality just like Islam. Do any damn thing you want. Start wars, use nukes, pollute the planet. It's all for Jesus/Allah. Just bless it first it.

We can clone, rape, cut off heads, bomb clinics, whatever we want with religious relativism.

that was'nt really my main point but i agree with you
maybe i should of made this more clear my main point was that god created life why do christians find it so wrong for us to? just seems very hypercritical

I fear God and accept jesus as my savior but............I'd go to jurrasic park right now!!! not too close though

i doubt sadly you will find sombody that belives cloning is ok who is a "hard core christian"

I don't think that its hypocritical for christians to be morally opposed to clonning. I don't think that the bible actually says anything about it either, but its not necessarily hypocritical.

Also, keep in mind, most bioethecists are staunchly opposed to human clonning, as are most 'atheistic humanists'.

i dont mean to sound offensive, but people seem to keep missing my point

Here I am trying my best to not conform to any group and along comes some bored labeller to bust my balloon. Now I'm a fraken Pantheist?!? I give up!

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Back to Topic
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Did you notice you spelled hypocritical wrong in your title? No, I'm not nit-picking. I think it's hilarious because Christians are both hypocritical and hypercritical. I should know, I spent 17 years in the church. Christians helped to show me hypocrisy long before I knew politics existed.

"1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:"

Bet you didn't know God had multiple personalities. Our image. Our likeness.

He created life but just cause he created us does it mean that we have to listen to his views and rules?

Christians do have some big egos. Here they think the creator of all this really cares what we do. We have free will. We are creators. It's the Christians and other major religions that want to take that away. And no, we don't have to listen to his views and rules. And no one is going to some lake of fire either. We make our own rules and views. That's what we're here for. To learn by interacting with the Universe (aka God). Those views and rules are then automatically part of God.

using the above example if we created life and that life became intelligent does it mean we have the right to impose rules on them, mould them in our own image or let them become a independent species?

Not unless we are selfish, petty, ego-driven bastages; which many of us are.

In my personal belife we have the power to create life lets do it spread life, it just anoys me when christians are against things like cloning and playing god when there god did the same thing.

Christians, along with the rest of the world that is stuck in their dillusions, no longer annoy me. There are much much greater uses of energy than to be annoyed by people's dillusions. Granted, I occasionally use emotions to shock people. But that's just for fun.

EDIT: Stupid Quotes.

[edit on 7-1-2005 by ShadowHasNoSource]

I apologize in advance. This is a bit off topic. Please forgive me; I'm on a roll.

You know what I'm about to pretend really annoys me about Christians?

They constantly pray for deliverance from evil. So the angels answer the call and take the risks of jumping into these bodies. And then the Christians ignore them because the answers don't conform to some fraken book!

It wasn't too long ago that man was not staring up at the moon never imagining it would one day be visited by us, and not too long later here we are exploring Mars and soon to be nearing the edge of our solar system. Tell a religious person a century or two ago that man would be able to clone life and they would likely be doubting it on the basis that only God has that ability.

So, what exactly can happen in 100, 200, 300 years from now? Man can have the ability to actually be a God. Clone life, plant them on an inhabitable planet, watch them populate, dictate to them, use some awesome power of technology once in a while to keep them in line, teach them to write and tell them to record the power of their god in a book.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
It wasn't too long ago that man was not staring up at the moon never imagining it would one day be visited by us, and not too long later here we are exploring Mars and soon to be nearing the edge of our solar system. Tell a religious person a century or two ago that man would be able to clone life and they would likely be doubting it on the basis that only God has that ability.

So, what exactly can happen in 100, 200, 300 years from now? Man can have the ability to actually be a God. Clone life, plant them on an inhabitable planet, watch them populate, dictate to them, use some awesome power of technology once in a while to keep them in line, teach them to write and tell them to record the power of their god in a book.

whats your point?

I am not even sure how to respond to this post. It would appear the poster is not very familar with Christian beliefs and faith. Humans are not God thus they should not try and play him. To argue that since God played God so can we is not even something that can be debated as it does not even make sense.

If the poster wants to debate cloning, then do so.

Originally posted by defcon5
God = God
Human =Human
God > Human
Human < God
God Rules humans
Humans don’t rule God
Not living up to God’s rules = Sin

Human -> Fear of death,+ imagination
Humans create Gods
God is a figment of our imagination
Therefore :
Human > God

yeh, my point is that its kind of double stardards for christians to be against cloning when it brings life, just the same as god creating us aparently

and my other point is why should we go by gods rules just because he created us every human being knows right from wrong.

this is turning into uite a good debate

Human clones already exist anyway.

Real twins are natural clones.