Gazrok has it! Seven Pillars of Wisdom there.
And arc, mini-E has left her Brownie & Guides days behind ( probably jazz cigarettes, free love and left-wing politics, I shouldn't wonder: but as long as she doesn't let her Latin slip) but a decade or so later, the uniform was still the same-doubled as an air-raid shelter! But she loved it, and every badge. And, happily, she was proud to be in those organistaions: because slackers and scrimshankers left and attributed their departure to "individualism"!

School is a place of brainwashing, indoctrination, and ignorance. Conformity, identifying with a group, ect, bad things to institutionalize in a place of forced dogma, like schools. People choose who they want to indentify with. School pride and idenityty can always be saved for spirit week, and for people who want to get into that thing.

Inequality is not something you want to mask to hide from peoples eyes so they dont think it exists. let the rich kids flaunt what they have, it brings an early awareness to the structure of societies. it makes one think. Hiding it and pretending it doesnt exist is foolish. let it be hung out in the open for all to ponder.

Uniforms are evil when imposed. Let those who choose to wear them wear them. Military, police, firemen, doctors, nurses, all are choices. School is not.

Thankfully, school uniforms probably wont get too much welcome in the states, when parents realize they gotta pay for the damn things, especially low income parents. K Mart pants alot cheaper.

i had to wear a school uniform and it felt like being a member of a cult or prison. If we didn't wear the uniform, we were sent hom because " we prevented other people from learning". How?? don't even know how we did. We had to wear a blazer,tie, black trousers, black or white socks and black shoes. You are lucky you never went to school in the UK.

You know. having to fight for our tennis shoes and beat the crap out of kids trying to snatch our nikes was a good learning experience.

people are too quick to discredit the valuable lessons of fighting, dodgeball, and creating pen guns in the classroom.

are actually more of a strict dress code...(i.e. black dress slacks, white dress shirt, etc.), so low income could still get their Kmart pants....

School is a place of brainwashing, indoctrination, and ignorance.

Sounds a lot like the workplace, huh? So, if you're arguement is to prepare them for the real world, then this certainly does the trick.

Most people in adult society could care less whether someone is wearing JC Penny, or Abercrombe & Finch, etc. so why put the pressure on kids for this?

You raise some good points Skadi, but I still think it's more beneficial, than harmful.....

I think America and the runaway teen culture have to much of a stranglehold on the education system and popular media. The focus of kids today are almost completely occupied with what they're wearing, driving or listening to. School uniforms were originally designed to level the playingfield from income differences and to remove "object" from the outside world that distract from focused education. I think they are a great idea as long as school is a voluntary process.

On the other hand, I'm all for Japanese teens in school uniforms!


[Nothing is true]

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
School is a place of brainwashing, indoctrination, and ignorance.

Skadi, first off... I apologize in advance for going one on one with you so much, lately, but statements like the one I've quoted force me to do so. Yes, many colleges and universities (like I've mentioned) are mono-ideological, but 'school', in its purest form, is the basis of civilization itself. Without structured learning, without the transmission of knowledge from one generation to another... The human race is no different than any other primate breed. I only wish that I could see a day when the Department of Education was recognized as being more important to national safety than the Department of Defense (as Cicero said, to effect, "Skilled armsmanship ends wars, skilled oratory ends the need for them"). But, like many... you've chosen, skadi, to take a position that dismisses structured education because you don't understand it.

[Edited on 16-8-2003 by onlyinmydreams]

As George Carlin once said about stickers people put on their cars about their children.

"We are the proud parents of a child who has resisted his teacher's attempt to break his spirit and turn him into a soul dead conformist of the consumer culture."

I have to agree with him.

I agree with the idea that there is much more to a person than the clothes they wear. And because of that, Im not worried about the uniforms that the children are wearing now. I'm worried about the next step. Many students and parents are scratching their heads wondering why the uniforms are required in the first place. Low-income families get their uniforms at stores with reasonable prices (Long live Wal-Mart!) and the kids with the means to buy $80 khakis from Dillards will do so. The uniforms are not helping to dampen the social hierarchy at all. So why are they there? I think, and this is just my current opinion, that it is an attempt to gain a tiny bit more control over the children. It may or may not lead to more elaborate methods of control. Your arguments for uniforms are good ones, and I tend to agree with many of them. I do disagree with the comparison of school uniforms to those of military or law inforcement officers. In a situation where intimidation and dominance is the goal, then yes, uniforms do help the cause. Such is the case with the police and even sports teams. School children will group together on their own. They will begin to dress like everyone in their respective groups. That is part of their identity at school. Its not everything, but it is something. I personally don't think that the right to choose what they wear should be taken away from students. But, that is me. One day when I am older and wiser,as I have a feeling many of you are, I might think about my narrow youthful views and laugh.

Much respect to you all,

EEI

Structured education and forced education are two different things.

Currently, and for quite a while, schools have been little more than indoctrination centers. Schools arent the basis for civi8lization, the real basis goes from parent to child. In the wild, this basic training of the young ensures the most vital skills and lessons are learned. Once, schools simply tought wisdom and knowldge. Those created schools of thought. Fine.

Now they are centers to teach distorted history, political agendas, ect. There is hardly anything education about schools in this, or many societies. Kids come out indoctrinated, a few resist. Colleges are similar, but are a choice, unlike early education, which is required.

Thus, i distrust and dislike educational institutions in thier current form, and in the proposed future forms. Mind twisting, turning kids brains to jello. Hence, why so many kids know whats politically correct, or, in some towns, whats the good and christian thing to do, but cant find America on a map. Thus, the kids come out good and brainwashed, but really, little more educated.

Schools are a battleground for the young mind. Some conservatives hold sway, some, the libs do. Some are ridiculous. Hardly any teach.

It is niether the right, nor duty, of schools to teach morality, that is the parents duty. nor is it right for schools to try and enforce opinions within students. it is simply thier job to offer knowledge. Schools hardly stick to this basic principal anymore. Thus, the enforce some sort of mindless conformity, or another.

Kids should not be forced to identify with ANYTHING. They should instead be elft to decide what they wish to identify with. once we start pushing towards this and that, well.......we train sheep, not people.

I am fully aware that organized education, in this less than perfect society, is a necessary evil, since most parents cant be around to be able to teach thier kids on thier own, who ultimately, are the ones who should have that authority. Assume nothing.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf


Kids should not be forced to identify with ANYTHING. They should instead be elft to decide what they wish to identify with. once we start pushing towards this and that, well.......we train sheep, not people.

Which is why, when you grew up you left school and joined the army.
Where you wore a uniform.
Hypocrite.

That was a choice, leveler. A CHOICE. Re read the post on choice VS forced.

School is not a choice, kids are required by law.

Youre a very good example of the system supplying the world with good obiedient sheep. baaaaaaah. They sure did thier job on you.

I agree with your sentiments in post 147011.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Youre a very good example of the system supplying the world with good obiedient sheep. baaaaaaah. They sure did thier job on you.

Stupid fool.
I help to run the system.

You're the cattle. Chewing the cud of ignorance.

De-individualised children become de-individualised adults.

Of course you do, leveler, we know this. This is hardly news for anyone, because of your posts, that you pretty much are very PRO NWO and totalitarian govornment. thats your choice.

Your presence on this board was a mystery, but now I think I understand. As a nice herder of cattle, youre mad a few staryed from the herd, and refuse to return no matter how much you prod and goad them. Nothing you can do will return the cattle to you once the cattle have realized thier condition, and ultimately, the fate of all cattle: the slaughterhouse. Tsk Tsk.

As to the issue of school uniforms, though Unbalanced, individuality is only a smaller part of the issue, the bigger issue is choice of indenitification and such. Since school is already forced, and the agenda and quality of schools is base, the less we force on the kids, the better. Let them utimately decide. And, if school uniforms become voluntary, then thats ok too, because thats also a choice. When that choice gets taken away..............theres the problem. then youre helping create a dream society for Leveler.

I think that it is rediculous how school kids harass each other over the clothes they wear,if you are going to school to learn,it would be best to level the field and stop the fighting over who is coolest,the poor kids get snapped pretty bad for not being dressed like the little rich brats.

This is especially wrong because the kids don't have the money ,their parents do.

Our schools mimick our society as a whole.

A lot of kids are damaged by the abuse they get because they aren't COOL,who the fk cares?.

And if uniform were "voluntary" -it wouldn't be "uniform", would it?

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Of course you do, leveler, we know this. This is hardly news for anyone, because of your posts, that you pretty much are very PRO NWO and totalitarian govornment. thats your choice.

You know nothing. My political affiliations are nothing that you suspect.

I pity you. I really do.
Open youre window. Take a look at the world out there.
But you won't because you are too scared. Too bitter. Full of illogical hatred.

You are a sheep to your own fear.

in smaller groups, yeah. But theres another issue of uniformity: oneness. Forced oneness.

Football team players wear uniforms, they choose to. They are uniform within thier own group.

Cheerleaders, band members, sports teams, spirit clubs, girl scouts all wear uniforms, because the CHOOSE to identify with one another.

Choice. If kids wanna wear a uniform, because they choose to idenitufy with thier school, then fine. When everyone is FORCED to wear them, then you have the conformity mill running.

Diversity, not uniformity, is our strength. Different groups, different idenitities, not one big one. Its a recipie for further conformity with society much later.