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Creation, where is the evidence? I see none.

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posted on Jul, 18 2005 @ 09:45 PM
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I've spoken dozens of times on this board about the "flat earth myth". Few people in the history of civilization have actually seriously thought that the Earth is flat.

www.stnews.org...
www.bede.org.uk...
www.sfu.ca...
www.lewrockwell.com...

Zip




posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 04:01 AM
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if so people throughout history have believed there's a flat earth, then why now, are there still people that believe in flat earth, even societys and groups haved formed?



posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 10:11 AM
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Please provide links for this claim. Mankind's first clue was that the moon is round. His second clue was that sails on ships appear before hulls, lighthouses disappear, mountain tops appear before coasts, etc. The knowledge of Earth's shape is ancient. I am not, of course, claiming that nobody in the history of civilized society believed that the Earth was flat, but I am definitely asserting that the number of people to think so is "very few" and FAR fewer than the myth has us believe.

Zip

[edit on 7/19/2005 by Zipdot]



posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 10:28 AM
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www.talkorigins.org

wikipedia

flatearth

also if the bible is interpreted literally then yes you will find that it says the earth is flat.

[edit on 19-7-2005 by shaunybaby]



posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 10:35 AM
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Wow. Just, wow. I'm surprised I didn't know about these guys. Anyway, I still stick with my qualifier "civilized society."


Zip



posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 10:53 AM
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I don't mean to derail or anything, but I really got a kick out of this part of the membership application of the Flat Earth Society:



Age ______ RACE ______ Sex ______




Zip



posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 01:04 PM
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www.creationevidence.org...
this link (I think, was years ago that I saw the presentation at church and remember the link) has artifacts pre-flood era that upon metallurgic analysis show that it ( a hammer, not saying its Noah's mind you lol) had been forged in 2 atmospheric pressures where today we only have 1. "There were giants in those days" that would be explained by growing up in double the atmospheric pressure we have today.
I have proof enough to convince anyone, the problem is that sometimes people won't know a fire is hot no matter how many times they'd been told, and will ultimately touch it to see for themselves.
Think about the Earth, the Moon, and the Sun. The moon is 400 times it's diameter away from the Earth, and coincidentally, is also 400 times its distance from the Earth to the Sun which is why an eclipse perfectly blocks the Sun. (My numbers might not be correct, its been quite awhile since I learned this and age seems to fog the brain when trying to recall
but it is a harmony that fits too perfectly to be chance)
Now I know this doesn't really prove that there is a God creator, however, I feel I should share something with you all that left me no doubt as to there being a God.
March 4th 2005, I came home from work to find my 37 year old stepson had shot himself , point blank in the heart with a 9mm hollow point. You don't have to believe me, I can post a link to the on-line community that set up a memorial for him, complete with a pic of his headstone.
I witness to everyone, anytime I get the opportunmity to do so since this is a powerful message. The way I tell it is this:
When you stumble into that pit of despair
And the situation is so hopeless that nothing you can do will ever change it
When you cry out in anguish "Oh Lord, I don't know what to pray for"
I prayed for calm.
Something that simple, and it blessed me in ways you couldn't imagine. It was like a wave that started at the top of my head and slowly descended down to my feet. (It wasn't uncontrolled like that chill down your spine, it was slow, controlled... definitley supernatural!) By the time it was at my knees I was filled with forgiveness, understanding, and most importantly a clarity of thought... not to mention that I just knew that everything would be alright.
He was my wife's only child and she had commented numerous times that if anything ever happened to him she couldn't deal with it.
First thing I did was call her to tell her not to come home, not to drive, I'd call her when it was ok. She was dumbstruck, didn't know what to do so
she opened a phone book to call someone even though she had numbers on her cell. First page it opened to was the R's and she just saw Robinson who were also members of our church. She dialed them and was told they had just left to go to a church function about 30 miles from town... she hung up. Not more than a minute later she got a call from the same people she was trying to call, he had forgotten his wallet and when he found out someone had called, had *69'd the number on his phone and called her back.
Long story short, we both felt like the hand of God had guided us throughout the entire ordeal. Now I said I was filled with forgiveness, the night before he shot himself, he was speaking to his wife who had told him she wanted to be single, his 13 yr old daughter (1 of 3) said "don't come back, EVER!" Yeah, I could forgive, understand, and the most amazing thing was the clarity of thought. I truly believe I have been touched by the hand of God... and it was as simple as a silent prayer for calm.
You don't have to believe me, I don't expect anyone to... the point of my testimony is that should you ever find yourself in those dark moments, try it... HE won't let you down. ... and I'm not letting Him down. I still feel goosebumps and get moved to tears thinking back on it...
All you gotta' do is believe.
So yeah, I believe in my creator. And as for the 7 days of creation, 1st day there was light... you can't measure His day as an Earth day, there was no Earth.
Also, people tend to disbelieve creation because geneology can be traced back in the bible 6,000 years and yet the Earth is billions of years old.... who ever said we are the 1st or only civilization created upon this Earth?
Pole shifts occurred (thats definitley a different thread, there is plenty of proof that I won't go into here)on average about every 10 to 12,000 years and everything gets wiped clean. (IMHO, the last shift was how the Grand Canyon was created, when the oceans spilled over their basins and washed over the land masses)
Last point, oil is created by decomposed tissue... think of how many must have died to create the vast pools deposited around the world... incidentally, oil reserves are expected to run dry in the next 200 years.
Sorry to be so grim, but creation/evolution is really life and death in a nutshell.
"Seek and you shall find, Ask and you shall be answered"



posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 02:15 PM
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the moon is where it is because of the earth's gravity. the earth is where it is because of the sun's gravity. believe it or not the reason why we get an eclipse is purely by chance. if god did put the moon there and the earth here and the sun over there...why bother making them exactly so an eclispe would even form?...why even make a moon at all, why even make other planets where life like ours cannot flourish? why make anything in the universe that we cannot see with the naked eye...did god fortell that one day we'd have telescopes thus created things in the universe that were too far away for us to see with our eyes? why make an asteroid belt that fires asteroids nearby? there should be a reason behind everything god creates if there is a god. there doesn't need to be a reason why the moon is where it is, or the sun is where it is in science, is there because of chance, and we are here because of that 'chance'.



posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 02:45 PM
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there should be a reason behind everything god creates if there is a god.

I am not God so I can't answer these, but you can ask him when you see him.
As to why the other planets were created ... it would only be my conjecture but I feel there is a reason.
Who are we to say that life indigenous to these worlds doesn't exist? Did life (as we know it) once exist on Mars that half a million years ago could sustain life as we know it?
Are all things in harmony and without having the outer/inner planets we would be out of balance and our world (that is so finely tuned to sustain our meager lives) would wander off its trajectory? Does the moon not also fall into creation "created a firmament in the night..." that we won't have utter darkness when the sun goes down?
Some things you just gotta' take on faith.
"Blessed are those who believe and yet have not seen"

In all honesty, I firmly believe in life on other worlds... I have to. I saw what we are nowhere near technologically capable of doing. Once you cross that barrier, you see things differently, I assure you.
Perhaps Jesus's enitre sacrifice for us was to give us a moral conscience... to learn to get along with each other. How else can we accept beings from other planets if we are unable to even get along with each other?
If there is no God, then there was no Son of God... sorry, but my love for Jesus and the sacrifice he made for all of us prevents me from the denial that permeats society.
God gives us free-will to decide for ourselves.
It's like the way I would train dogs or bring up children. I want them to listen to me out of love and not because they have to out of fear or intimidation... how else would I know for sure that they are devoted to me?
And as far as that goes... dogs do for their masters out of love and love alone. Humans are a different breed. I apologize for the digression, but to me, love is one and the same for everything. If you got it you got it.
If you don't, you are always seeking "something more"
I guess I could end this with
"For the Love of God"
... perhaps that explains it all?



posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by keybored
Think about the Earth, the Moon, and the Sun. The moon is 400 times it's diameter away from the Earth, and coincidentally, is also 400 times its distance from the Earth to the Sun which is why an eclipse perfectly blocks the Sun. (My numbers might not be correct, its been quite awhile since I learned this and age seems to fog the brain when trying to recall
but it is a harmony that fits too perfectly to be chance)

No it isn't remotely a perfect fit. The moon moves in an elliptical orbit, not a circular one, and hence the moon is sometimes further away from the sun than the sun's diameter is larger. When this happens during an eclipse, you get an annular eclipse. Only 25-30% or so of eclipses are total (depends whether you include hybrid ones).

www.mreclipse.com...

Further, the distance of the moon has been smaller in the past and is still continuing to get larger. It's just pure chance that during our human presence on earth, the size/distance relation of moon and sun seems somewhat tuned.

[edit on 19-7-2005 by Simon666]



posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 02:53 PM
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I appreciate you replies and corrections of my posts. Having said that, I just stated I am not God and anything I say is only conjecture based on what I have learned and read. It seems like a small thing to define (where we came from) and yet since it stirs up such a passion within us all (we all want to know) it seems like a need to know thing... like I said previously, some things you just gotta' take on faith. And Faith is amazing if you have it!



posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 03:08 PM
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Thank you keybored for joining the discussion.

Thank for posting some "evidence" for creation even if it was indirectly.

The site he linked to, which is also linked to Mr. Hovind's site stated among others 10 evidences for creation.

I know that all of this "science" has been proven wrong but I think this is a good a place as any to list them and debunk them for everyones enjoyment.

www.creationevidence.org...


EVIDENCE FOR CREATION

1. The Fossil Record...Evolutionists have constructed the Geologic Column in order to illustrate the supposed progression of "primitive" life forms to "more complex" systems we observe today. Yet, "since only a small percentage of the earth's surface obeys even a portion of the geologic column the claim of their having taken place to form a continuum of rock/life/time over the earth is therefore a fantastic and imaginative contrivance.1" "[T]he lack of transitional series cannot be explained as being due to the scarcity of material. The deficiencies are real, they will never be filled."2 This supposed column is actually saturated with "polystrate fossils" (fossils extending from one geologic layer to another) that tie all the layers to one time-frame. "[T]o the unprejudiced, the fossil record of plants is in favor of special creation." 3

2. Decay of Earth's Magnetic Field... Dr. Thomas Barnes, Emeritus Professor of Physics at the University of Texas at El Paso, has published the definitive work in this field.4 Scientific observations since 1829 have shown that the earth's magnetic field has been measurably decaying at an exponential rate, demonstrating its half-life to be approximately 1,400 years. In practical application its strength 20,000 years ago would approximate that of a magnetic star. Under those conditions many of the atoms necessary for life processes could not form. These data demonstrate that earth's entire history is young, within a few thousand of years.

3. The Global Flood... The Biblical record clearly describes a global Flood during Noah's day. Additionally, there are hundreds of Flood traditions handed down through cultures all over the world. 5 M.E. Clark and Henry Voss have demonstrated the scientific validity of such a Flood providing the sedimentary layering we see on every continent. 6 Secular scholars report very rapid sedimentation and periods of great carbonate deposition in earth's sedimentary layers..7 It is now possible to prove the historical reality of the Biblical Flood.8

4. Population Statistics...World population growth rate in recent times is about 2% per year. Practicable application of growth rate throughout human history would be about half that number. Wars, disease, famine, etc. have wiped out approximately one third of the population on average every 82 years. Starting with eight people, and applying these growth rates since the Flood of Noah's day (about 4500 years ago) would give a total human population at just under six billion people. However, application on an evolutionary time scale runs into major difficulties. Starting with one "couple" just 41,000 years ago would give us a total population of 2 x 1089. 9 The universe does not have space to hold so many bodies.

5. Radio Halos...Physicist Robert Gentry has reported isolated radio halos of polonuim-214 in crystalline granite. The half-life of this element is 0.000164 seconds! To record the existence of this element in such short time span, the granite must be in crystalline state instantaneously.10 This runs counter to evolutionary estimates of 300 million years for granite to form.

6. Human Artifacts throughout the Geologic Column...Man-made artifacts - such as the hammer in Cretaceous rock, a human sandal print with trilobite in Cambrian rock, human footprints and a handprint in Cretaceous rock – point to the fact that all the supposed geologic periods actually occurred at the same time in the recent past.11

7. Helium Content in Earth's Atmosphere... Physicist Melvin Cook, Nobel Prize medalist found that helium-4 enters our atmosphere from solar wind and radioactive decay of uranium. At present rates our atmosphere would accumulate current helium-4 amounts in less than 10,000 years.12

8. Expansion of Space Fabric...Astronomical estimates of the distance to various galaxies gives conflicting data.13 The Biblical Record refers to the expansion of space by the Creator14. Astrophysicist Russell Humphries demonstrates that such space expansion would dilate time in distant space.15 This could explain a recent creation with great distances to the stars.

9. Design in Living Systems...A living cell is so awesomely complex that its interdependent components stagger the imagination and defy evolutionary explanations. A minimal cell contains over 60,000 proteins of 100 different configurations.16 The chance of this assemblage occurring by chance is 1 in 10 4,478,296 .17

10. Design in the Human Brain...The human brain is the most complicated structure in the known universe.18 It contains over 100 billion cells, each with over 50,000 neuron connections to other brain cells.19 This structure receives over 100 million separate signals from the total human body every second. If we learned something new every second of our lives, it would take three million years to exhaust the capacity of the human brain. 20 In addition to conscious thought, people can actually reason, anticipate consequences, and devise plans - all without knowing they are doing so.


Sorry for the extra long post, but I think these misleading arguments are a great place to start a search for evidence of creation.

When I have more time I will debunk them point by point unless I'm beaten to it.



posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by keybored
www.creationevidence.org...
this link (I think, was years ago that I saw the presentation at church and remember the link) has artifacts pre-flood era that upon metallurgic analysis show that it ( a hammer, not saying its Noah's mind you lol) had been forged in 2 atmospheric pressures where today we only have 1. "There were giants in those days" that would be explained by growing up in double the atmospheric pressure we have today.
I have proof enough to convince anyone,

If you think you have real proof.. please provide DIRECT evidence instead of expecting peple to sift through the creationalist $ite you have provided.. as well as a link to the 'giant' fossills you are refferring to.

the problem is that sometimes people won't know a fire is hot no matter how many times they'd been told, and will ultimately touch it to see for themselves.

Belittleing the 'opposition' by comparing them to naive children does not validate your point of view.. it just shows you are more willing to discredit the individual rather than their points.

Think about the Earth, the Moon, and the Sun. The moon is 400 times it's diameter away from the Earth, and coincidentally, is also 400 times its distance from the Earth to the Sun which is why an eclipse perfectly blocks the Sun. (My numbers might not be correct, its been quite awhile since I learned this and age seems to fog the brain when trying to recall
but it is a harmony that fits too perfectly to be chance)

Any harmony that may be shared between the sun, moon and earth would exist because they all share the same orbit.

Long story short, we both felt like the hand of God had guided us throughout the entire ordeal. Now I said I was filled with forgiveness, the night before he shot himself, he was speaking to his wife who had told him she wanted to be single, his 13 yr old daughter (1 of 3) said "don't come back, EVER!" Yeah, I could forgive, understand, and the most amazing thing was the clarity of thought. I truly believe I have been touched by the hand of God... and it was as simple as a silent prayer for calm.
You don't have to believe me, I don't expect anyone to... the point of my testimony is that should you ever find yourself in those dark moments, try it... HE won't let you down. ... and I'm not letting Him down. I still feel goosebumps and get moved to tears thinking back on it...
All you gotta' do is believe.

Thats a very sad story and I'm glad you found something to give you some hope during that difficult stage.. however there are many other faiths [and non faiths] that have provided people with similar hope.. your story doesn't negate them. I, myself became an atheist.. though I am very spiritual. The fact that all life on our planet came from a single cell gives me a powerful connection to all life that brings a level of empathy into my own that I wouldn't have otherwise.

So yeah, I believe in my creator. And as for the 7 days of creation, 1st day there was light... you can't measure His day as an Earth day, there was no Earth.

With no sun there is no light.. and with no light there are no days.. how can a day exist without light?

Pole shifts occurred (thats definitley a different thread, there is plenty of proof that I won't go into here)on average about every 10 to 12,000 years and everything gets wiped clean. (IMHO, the last shift was how the Grand Canyon was created, when the oceans spilled over their basins and washed over the land masses)

It would have taken millions if not billions of years for it to form.. a sudden 'wash' of water would not have have eroded it.

Last point, oil is created by decomposed tissue... think of how many must have died to create the vast pools deposited around the world... incidentally, oil reserves are expected to run dry in the next 200 years.

The whole planet is consuming oil at a ridiculous rate.. whats your point?

[edit on 19-7-2005 by riley]



posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 04:14 PM
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Originally posted by keybored
Having said that, I just stated I am not God




I am not God so I can't answer these


o.k we get that you are not god, you need not tell us, as we already had a pretty good idea in the first place that you were not god.



posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 05:09 PM
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My apologies if any were offended by my posts. I in no way intended to belittle anyone with them, I merely analogized in the clearest way I saw. As to that site, I stated it was from memory when I had seen the presentation. ( I should have taken the time to go there first but in all honsety, I was conviced from the presentation we viewed years prior)

After going to the site I see discrepancies in what was presented (at the church) and what is listed as proof. Also, the contention that the world is thousands of years old doesn't sit well with me since I don't buy the theory postulated there either. I apologize for not reviewing the website before posting it, although I am sure that is the site representative of what we had gotten the presentaion from. Over the years they had obviously changed their tune.

I still believe in creation however, and my referrences to things like oil was to demonstrate that a lot had to die in that one spot in order to form the pool in the first place. God destroyed the world with water once. Or perhaps there is a different solution that one of you have and if so I would like to hear it.

The Grand Canyon theory I will stick by though, that comes from me and I am convinced that if you took a volume of water as large as the ocean and ran it across the Earth in a matter of hours/days/weeks, however long it had taken, it would erode the soil at its weakest (most soluble) point and this to me would account for the amazing depths to which it had changed the topography. The water receded and still runs through it but I find it doubtful that over millions of years the direction didn't change and it still continued to erode down the same course. .. no, I am convinced it was a lot of water that ran through there in a hurry. Niagra Falls continues to erode and "wander" on a course yet it didn't cut deep, merely directionally and the falls itself is moving so that one day there will be no more falls, but it still didn't cut a mile deep swath.

You know, the question was asked for proof of creation. I asserted it was God who created all and that is something I take on Faith. (I'm not so sure of that website however) To answer it any other way if you think about it is really impossible. .

Perhaps the easiset way to prove creation is to disprove evolution. Where is the missing link? Perhaps man is the missing link between ape and alien? That is where the evolution solution lies. I still prefer the creationist theory. (Although maybe God was/is an alien?) I guess you see where this leads, nobody can be certain one way or the other. Perhaps one of you have a better theory?

Lets look at it another way, all of us can be traced back to a common ancestor and if as Darwin would have it we came from apes, then why are there still apes? If we evolved then how is there that throwback? You don't see cro-magnon still walking the Earth. I guess that raises another question of where cro-magnon came from. I wasn't there to record it and only have the biblical records to rely upon which is still where my Faith lies.

The dinosaurs got taken out of the picture and isn't it possible that there was a lapse between God creating Earth and creating man? (It was never stated with any time-line other than as days, and maybe the records got misconstrued much like "one day I am going to get off the 'puter and cut the grass?"
I don't think you can rule it out simply because Darwin had the answers... he wasn't there either... and until someone comes up with that missing link between man and ape, I'll stand on creation.



posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 06:43 PM
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Keybored, thank you again for commenting and bringing your perspective to the debate.

One thing to keep in mind is that evolution being a fact does not invalidate your christian beliefs. The catholic church accepts evolution but does not accept abiogenesis.

Man did not come from apes, apes and humans share a common ancestor. Modern apes are as different from this common anscestor as humans are.

As to your flood comments, we are looking for proof of a flood not confimation of other theories, so please post some evidence not opinion.

I understand that you believe in creation however I started this thread to see if there was any scientific proof for creation so please provide some if you have it.

Also if evolution is disproven that does not automatically validate creation. You cannot prove a negative. Rren's post was well thought out and a very good addition to the debate. However what validates a creator to him also proves true of all ancient religions.

All myths start out with chaos, then form, then light, it proves no positives towards the christian creation system. It proves the bible as much as it proves greek myths.



posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 07:41 PM
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Originally posted by keybored

I still believe in creation however, and my referrences to things like oil was to demonstrate that a lot had to die in that one spot in order to form the pool in the first place. God destroyed the world with water once. Or perhaps there is a different solution that one of you have and if so I would like to hear it.


During a historical geology class I took a year and a half back, my professor hit on oil briefly. He said that there was some evidence (however very little) to support a theory that oil is actually formed by a process inside the earth but that the research was pretty new. Unfortunately I couldn't find anything on goolge, and I don't have access to my colleges journal database on my moms computer. Supposedly they reopened oil wells that had been emptied and capped off to find that the well was refilling. (Also forgot the scientists name who was pursueing this theory, because it really was irrelevant to the course, and been a while).



The Grand Canyon theory I will stick by though, that comes from me and I am convinced that if you took a volume of water as large as the ocean and ran it across the Earth in a matter of hours/days/weeks, however long it had taken, it would erode the soil at its weakest (most soluble) point and this to me would account for the amazing depths to which it had changed the topography. The water receded and still runs through it but I find it doubtful that over millions of years the direction didn't change and it still continued to erode down the same course. .. no, I am convinced it was a lot of water that ran through there in a hurry. Niagra Falls continues to erode and "wander" on a course yet it didn't cut deep, merely directionally and the falls itself is moving so that one day there will be no more falls, but it still didn't cut a mile deep swath.


Actually, I wish I could find a picture, but it would actually cause a "ripple" (Ripple marks) look. With peaks and crests like that seen in sedimentary rock that was formed while a river with a current was running over it. We have evidence of "catastrophic" floods that have left behind the peaks that are several feet high and look like foothils unless you have an aireal veiw. (Also. "castasrophic" doesn't mean world ending) As for Niagra falls you have had glaciation over the last 20'000 years, you'd be better off comparing it to the Columbia River Basin, in Washington/Oregon. Still it was formed the same way except the Columbia River Plateau is formed of a flood basalt eruption.


Actually here's an example of ripple marks(Scroll down to it)
I believe its from the U.o Pittsburgh
Also I will see if I can find a pic of the aireal veiw to show you what I mean.




Perhaps the easiset way to prove creation is to disprove evolution. Where is the missing link? Perhaps man is the missing link between ape and alien? That is where the evolution solution lies. I still prefer the creationist theory. (Although maybe God was/is an alien?) I guess you see where this leads, nobody can be certain one way or the other. Perhaps one of you have a better theory?


There really isn't much of a missing link anymore. We have a pretty large fossil record with several intermediate fossils that fill in "gaps". But like they say fill one gap you just create two more one in front and one in back.
Also To disprove evolution doesn't prove creation. It just proves that the theory needs to be reworked if an area is disproven. Or a more credible theory has to be given with supporting evidence. So in order for creationism to work it has to have supporting evidence.



Lets look at it another way, all of us can be traced back to a common
ancestor and if as Darwin would have it we came from apes, then why are there still apes? If we evolved then how is there that throwback? You don't see cro-magnon still walking the Earth. I guess that raises another question of where cro-magnon came from. I wasn't there to record it and only have the biblical records to rely upon which is still where my Faith lies.


There are several species of Whale, shark etc. They share a common ansestor. There are several spieces of great ape still around. We share a common ancestor. And We share a common ancestor with



The dinosaurs got taken out of the picture and isn't it possible that there was a lapse between God creating Earth and creating man? (It was never stated with any time-line other than as days, and maybe the records got misconstrued much like "one day I am going to get off the 'puter and cut the grass?"
I don't think you can rule it out simply because Darwin had the answers... he wasn't there either... and until someone comes up with that missing link between man and ape, I'll stand on creation.


Nobody ever chose evolution because darwin said so. Infact Darwins work was not very popular to begin with. It wouldn't be until after his death that it would be scientifically accepted and even though there are different veiws it has stood upo to scientific scrutiny.



and until someone comes up with that missing link between man and ape, I'll stand on creation.


Well man is ape, we have been lucky enough to have enough fossils to give us a fairly extensive evolutionary history.

Here's a nice site to search
Note this is a Robust Astralopithicus Boisei. homoSapiens are considered to come from the small Graciile line.
here



posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 09:24 PM
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In spending further time thinking about this, I came across an essay in the New Yord times called "Hunting for life in specs of cosmic dust".

www.nytimes.com...
You may need to sign up. Its free. I dont get any junkmail.

Heres a few quotes from the Essay:

"Thoughtful cosmologists have long wondered about the apparent friendliness of the universe to carbon-based life forms like us. The notion that the fix must be in from a creator, however, has always been rejected as unscientific thinking."

"The list of astronomical requirements for life gets longer and more exacting every year: the home star has to be far enough from the galactic center to be away from lethal black hole pyrotechnics, for example, but not so far into the galactic sticks that stellar evolution has not yet produced enough of the heavier elements like oxygen and iron needed for planets and life."

"Among other things, its planet has to have liquid water, a magnetic field to keep away cosmic rays, plate tectonics to keep things stirred, a giant outer planet to keep away comets and asteroids and perhaps a big moon to stabilize its rotation axis."

"Of the 200 billion or so stars in the galaxy, what fraction have the lucky combo to win this cosmic lottery? Faced with the same paltry data, different astronomers get vastly different conclusions, ranging from hundreds of thousands to one, namely our own."

And the line that really caught my eye was this:

"The Discovery Institute advocates "intelligent design," a notion that posits the intervention by a designer, whether divine or not, in the origin and history of life, as an alternative to standard evolutionary biology."


Isnt that interesting concept. Designer intervention. Kinda like total recall.
To create an environment out of that which was in the process. Isnt mankind talking about doing that now?

I have to admit, the probabilities alone of having all the above listed " must haves " for life to exist is a bit lengthy, and lets face it, if one of them is missing, we arent going to live. Plus, luck at all the perfect environments that exist for the multitudes of lifeforms.

Now...add to that, the remote possibility that all of those requirements have been met. Then....enter God. The whole story and all of the mysteries surrounding it. Seems pretty improbable. Mayas. Aztecs. Christianity. Hell, even the Mayans said God was in a spaceship.

Is it possible that God is an interstellare being or entity. It is written in the Bible, that we should only worship the one God. Which makes me step back for a second and say...are there others?

On a final note, I listened to a Geologist regarding Mt St Helens.
When one cosiders Mt St Helens, and what has gone on there over the past 25 years, Geologists will tell you that many of the sedimentary formations, had they not known about the recent eruption, would have estimated a creation time of 10,000 plus years. Literally layers of rock created in a matter of a week. Thats right. A week. Intense heat and pressure. Just how old is this planet. Make you think twice.

Think about it.

Peace


[edit on 19-7-2005 by HIFIGUY]



posted on Jul, 19 2005 @ 10:35 PM
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well look at this point orginism,water,bugs,plants,mammals,primate,human



posted on Jul, 20 2005 @ 12:21 AM
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Remote possibility?

That almost makes sense.

Billions upon billions of systems with the same calculations involved changes it from being a remote possibility to a certain thing.

If it wasn't for the vastness of the universe it might make sense.

However 1 billion to one is a sure thing if you do it a billion billion times.

With so many star systems probability does not come into play. Obviously it can't be too improbable because we are here, despite the so called odds.


edit: the mt. st. helens example would make me think, if it weren't taken into account anytime someone dates something. The unreliability of newly formed rock when dating it is something geologists are aware of. It doesn't make sense that all of the earth was continuous volcanic activity until 6,000 years ago. That makes me think.

[edit on 20-7-2005 by LeftBehind]



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