What? No Global Warming?

...Those who are often called experts admit to glaring gaps in their knowledge of how all this works. A study last month revealed that scientists can't pin down one of the most critical keys: how much sunlight our planet absorbs versus how much is reflected back into space. The study also showed that a majority of scientists believe that the temperature data supporting a warming planet is not firm and that projections, based on computer modeling, might be wildly off the mark....

~MSNBC - June 2005

I stumbled across this very interesting article, I guess you can take it for what it's worth since it was on the internet... however if you think about it logically the only place you ever do hear about Global Warming is from middle and some high school environmental science teachers and never acual scientists or any news or weather source it kinda makes you indeed wonder about the validity of the whole idea. And if you do indeed think back about what you hear from middle and high school teachers isn't very conclusive and never talk about any immediate threats and if so it is always unbased and hype... Just my 2 cents if you will...

I believe the planet is warming up but the reason is debateable as to what extent man is the reason. The amount of warming has been less than was anticipated as well. I believe the oceans are absorbing CO2. I read an interesting theory within this link www.iceagenow.com... that states that underwater volcanic activity caused the last big warmup with a surge in underwater volcanos warming up the Pacific and Arctic oceans. As oceans warmed up they released a lot of greenhouse gases which they do when they warm up. Arctic ice melted and possibly shut down the gulf stream conveyor in the process which is a mechanism the oceans use to transport heat. After this the ice age started I believe. This process of warming up with greenhouse gases and then an ice age is a recurring natural process that may be happening now.

Considering that 80 percent of the world's volcanoes are underwater and many are active I believe I read, we really do not know how much of what is going on is part of a natural process and how much man has contributed. I'm not even sure if we know how much the deeper layers of the ocean may have warmed due to volcanic activity.

As far as land temperatures increasing consistently, that data may be flawed as well in my opinion. If you take data from the same point over time you might consider that to be reliable information. However, if you add a bunch of buildings and asphalt parking lots (modern city developments) in increasing amounts in the vicinity of these data points, I believe that alone will raise your average temperature. I think it is debateable to argue greenhouse warming based on these temperature data points within cities. Our cities may be warmer but is the countryside that much warmer? Just my two cents opinions.

I am really wondering if there is a big surge in underwater volcanic activity warming the deep layers of ocean within the Pacific and Arctic. This could IMO melt the Arctic ice and shut down the gulf stream. The world will undergo massive precipitation at times and the ice age will be starting. It's possible a cloudy Earth would reflect so much sunlight that there would be planetary cooling IMO. I don't place too much faith in all of the weather computer models either. We have all known a forecast for rain or sun and the opposite happened. It does seem that we live in interesting times. I'm wondering if I will see a liquid Arctic ocean within the next 10 to 20 years or if it will get hot or cold.

The main focus always seems to be in Global warming and if it is man made or a natural occurrence.

I believe this distracts us from the main topic of pollution and its impact on the environment... Contradiction? Not really... If the planet is warming due to natural events then there is nothing we can do except adapt, like our ancestors did. Global Warming is just one of the many possible side affects from pollution. So... Pollution is the real issue... Whether Man made global warming is true or not is irrelevant... fact is human activity is having a massive affect on the planet in many other ways. Deforestation, Hunting of species to extinction, thick yellow smog in city's, fish born with mixed sex organs, intensive farming killing soil fertility etc... I think most people would agree that pollution and human activity is a massive problem, even if they don’t agree with global warming, So, if we stopped worrying about this one subject and concentrated on the impact that we have on the world maybe we would start seeing a reduction in the damage caused through our activities....

Hmmm... hope this makes sense...

And just for the record, I personally feel that Global Warming is down to pollution. It could possibly be a natural occurrence but, if so, we are definitely adding to the problem and maybe accelerating it.

Originally posted by tigerjr
the only place you ever do hear about Global Warming is from middle and some high school environmental science teachers and never acual scientists or any news or weather source

Interesting. I take it you're in America? Here in the UK there are news stories about it every week, and whenever we get anything but dull, boring weather it's attributed to 'global warming' by the media - usually with a quote from a scientist to the effect that 'we expect such events to become more frequent in future'.

Most climatologists and meteorologists accept that some form of global warming is happening. And the fact that we're increasing atmospheric amounts of CO2 isn't in any doubt at all. The question is to what extent the 2 are linked, and what the long term consequences will be.

You might like to check out what the BBC have to say about the subject.

Got a link to that story, agent smith? No MIB cookies for mentioning story and then forgetting the link, you know.

Our president Bush is in denial. It doesn't matter how much science there is supporting global warming, Bush doesn't want to hear it. There's a lot of things he doesn't want to hear -- remember the recent flap about his environmental "guru" rewriting the repots that were given to him so that the White House could release news relases that didn't sound environmentally scary?

Your tax dollars at work creating frauds, folks.

There's a lot more support for global warming than you think Tiger, and it's not only the gradeschool teachers that are giving out information. Every developed nation supports reducing greenhouse emissions by the Kyoto Treaty except the US, and who do you think they get their information from, the highschool teachers? That would be hard to believe considering 179 nations have signed the Treaty. It's not even logical to assume that teachers are the only ones who are spouting infomation about global warming. These teachers got their information from a source and that source is the scientists who have done research on the problem.

Now I can't prove this (if I could then I'd probably be doing something about it), but I'd bet money that there are certain scientists out there getting paid off by the Bush administration to lie about global warming. It would definately cost a lot of money to restrict emissions (although its now proving to be more cost effective in the long run to actually reduce emissions), and it's probably in his best interest to blast off greenhouse gasses without restriction. If you want me to prove what I said about Kyoto I will find some articles, but its been in the news and information is easy to find online.

[edit on 29-6-2005 by zhangmaster]

Think about the consequences of global warming... an eventual ice age... Scientists say that there have in fact been several ice ages in the past. So it is really inevitable, however the reason for me pointing that out is that it is quite possible that we do not have as big an impact as we think. Sure chemists have told us what the atmosphere is made of and what these chemicals do when they mix them in their experiments, but remember their experiments are in ideal and perfect conditions... but can anyone tell me if we live in a perfect world? That is just a personal thought... onto other things, It is perfectly possible that we in america don't hear about this sort of stuff due to the fact that we did not sign the darn treaty (which we should have and at least ACTED like we were caring and doing something). That is entirely possible, however I think it is just that scientists are saying "hey it could happen we just don't know if it is, the only proof we have could also just be natural cycles." and well... you also have to think about the fact that scientific "knowledge" about things changes everyday... In the past 20 years for EXAMPLE medical science has changed what is healthy and un healthy almost monthly, switching back from one extreme to another. Sorry Mr. MIB the link isn't there any more aparently MSNBC doesn't think any news except for today's is of any interest... Once again I will say all the chemists know about our atmosphere is what happens ideally with only the major elements involved - none of the smaller traces present. All I gots to say is that if it is happening we do have ceran wrap, we do have rockets, fix the thing.

Global Warming is a PROVEN scientific fact. Why oh why do people still talk about the issue as if its still in debate. The science, data, measurements are there. It seems only America is Ignornat on this issue.

MischeviouslyStunnedByIgnorance

Global Warming is a PROVEN scientific fact. Why oh why do people still talk about the issue as if its still in debate. The science, data, measurements are there. It seems only America is Ignornat on this issue.

MischeviouslyStunnedByIgnorance

Global Warming is a PROVEN scientific fact. Why oh why do people still talk about the issue as if its still in debate. The science, data, measurements are there. It seems only America is Ignornat on this issue.

MischeviouslyStunnedByIgnorance

Due to the capitalist nature of America, it is not in the interest to hear news on global warming or anything else for that matter that would mean slowing economic growth by means of change in the nightly news. I don't know what you mean when you say it's funny that the only place you hear about global warming is in high school courses. The literatrure is out there. I suggest you look for primary research articles, or even do a google search. There was recently a study on the Arctic Climate Impact Assesment that can be viewed here
www.acia.uaf.edu...

In this report, you will see why it is hard to assess how much heat is absorbed or reflected by the earth. With the changing climate, the natural albedo of polar areas is changing. To put this another way, we know that white colors reflect light and darker ones absorb it. This report points out that with increasing temperatures, the vast majority of sea ice and inland glaciers (not the polar caps quite yet at such the same rate) are melting dramatically. As a result, the light color of the glaciers is replaced by darker land or water that absorbs heat. This processes just continues as the absorbed heat influences the next ice mass.

Similarly I recommend Red Sky at Morning by James G Speth.
Based on your retoric alone, I figure you may just brush off any facts in these works. For you I recommend one last work,
Taking Sides: Clashing Views on Controversial Environmental Issues published by McGrawHill.

The Book addresses the primary issues today in concise form and addresses the points from the traidtional republican and democratic party views. While I feel that one particular article on global climate change seems to be weak in this book, I believe you may be enlightened by some of the other writings in it.

Originally posted by MischeviousElf
Global Warming is a PROVEN scientific fact. Why oh why do people still talk about the issue as if its still in debate. The science, data, measurements are there. It seems only America is Ignornat on this issue.

MischeviouslyStunnedByIgnorance

Of course global warming is a scientific fact. Were it not, we would be arguing this point on a glacier. What has not been scientifically established is the effect of humans on the current warming trend. What has not even been researched is what can be done about it.

I must add here, for all you Bush haters, that the Senate is the govenmental body that enters the U.S. into treaties, not the President. President Clinton submitted the Kyoto Treaty to the Senate, where it was defeated by a vote of 99 to 1. What exactly is the point of continuing to pay tribute to a treaty that is not only not in the best interests of the U.S. economy, but which also has absolutely no chance of passage through the Senate?

If you want to cut CO2 emissions, add another couple of dollars to the gas taxes. Just make sure that you cut income taxes by an equal amount, instead of handing out free money to all the indigents you will create with such a tax.

Harte

Harte

Originally posted by MischeviousElf
Global Warming is a PROVEN scientific fact. Why oh why do people still talk about the issue as if its still in debate. The science, data, measurements are there. It seems only America is Ignornat on this issue.

MischeviouslyStunnedByIgnorance

The GW debate begins and (almost) ends in America. Oil companies like American Petroleum Institute, Exxon, and Chevron funnel millions of dollars in to disinfo. A few months ago I made a thread called Backgrounds of Scientists and Organizations Who are Skeptic of Global Warming. It goes into the big polluters role in creating debate on the subject.