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Could ATS play a role in Bush's Impeachment?

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posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 04:18 PM
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I recently stumbled on a site called www.votetoimpeach.org. There are several threads stating that Bush and Co. should be impeached. This site actually lets you cast a vote for impeachment! I've attached a quote off of this site stating the reasons. Personally, even if voting on a web site doesn't do anything I'll feel better for having made my opinion known!



PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH AND OTHER NAMED OFFICIALS OF THE UNITED STATES HAVE COMMITTED IMPEACHABLE OFFENSES OF UNPRECEDENTED DANGER TO THE CONSTITUTION AND PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES.

Draft Articles of Impeachment of President George W. Bush and other named officials of the United States charge the most serious crimes known to law and history. Nothing in the experience of the impeachment power under the Constitution compares. The conduct charged threatens the Constitution, the United Nations, the rule of law and the lives of unknown thousands, or millions of people by their act and example.

The alleged impeachable acts of President George W. Bush include:

1. Ordering and directing "first strike" war of aggression against Afghanistan causing thousands of deaths;

2. Removing the government of Afghanistan by force and installing a government of his choice;

3. Authorizing daily intrusions into Iraqi airspace and aerial attacks including attacks on alleged defense installations in Iraq which have killed hundreds of people in time of peace;

4. Authorizing, ordering and condoning attacks in Afghanistan and Iraq on civilians, civilian facilities and locations where civilian casualties are unavoidable;

5. Threatening the use of nuclear weapons and ordering preparation for their use;

6. Threatening the independence and sovereignty of Iraq by belligerently proclaiming his personal intention to change its government by force;

7. Authorizing, ordering and condoning assassinations, summary executions, murder, kidnappings, secret and other illegal detentions of individuals, torture and physical and psychological coercion of prisoners;

8. Authorizing, ordering and condoning violations of rights of individuals under the First, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth and Eight Amendments to the Constitution and of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, and other international protections of human rights;

9. Authorizing, directing and condoning bribery and coercion of individuals and governments to obtain his war ends;

10. Making, ordering and condoning false statements and propaganda and concealing information vital to public discussion and informed judgment to create a climate of fear and hatred and destroy opposition to his war goals.

President Bush is accused of Crimes Against Peace, War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity. No crimes are greater threats to the Constitution of the United States, the United Nation Charter, the rule of law or the future of humanity.


I don't feel it's a hard decision. If Bush and Co. are truely innocent, the impeachment should bring that out and they would be vindicated of any wrongdoings. If they are guilty......then bye-bye Shrub! At any rate, the site looks fairly legit' to me. Like many .org's they do ask for money. They won't get any from me, but they get my vote.

[edit on 28-6-2005 by FreeThinking1]




posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 04:21 PM
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The United States Constitution gives the sole power of impeachment to the U.S. House of Representatives, not to ATS or any other website.

Nothing is going to come of this...



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77
The United States Constitution gives the sole power of impeachment to the U.S. House of Representatives, not to ATS or any other website.

Nothing is going to come of this...


You may be wrong, if enough people stand up, the H.O.R has to listen.



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 04:28 PM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77
The United States Constitution gives the sole power of impeachment to the U.S. House of Representatives, not to ATS or any other website.

Nothing is going to come of this...


Very true. But who is responsible for the people working in the House of Representatives? The people. They may not listen and as you say maybe nothing will come of this. I feel it's better than simply posting it on a site. At least this way your opinion may join others' in the events leading up to an impeachment. I think it's worth a shot.



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 04:31 PM
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Well, I think you're as like to find pro busher as you will anti bushers here at ATS, we are a diverse and whacky group.

I personally didn't vote for bush, but as far as impeachment goes considering the neo-con stranglehold I doubt he'll be impeached.

And look at it this way, if they try to impeach him and it doesn't stick, do you want your name on a list of those who were for the impeachment.

Can you say super audit?


Spiderj



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 04:34 PM
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Actually, I have just finished putting together a thread on PTS on this subject.

If you read the Declaration of Independence It States the following



But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.


I invite you to review the thread as It deals with the possibility that the US Goverment as well as the Supreme Court are in violation of the Constitution and as such, RIGHT but their DUTY of the American citizen to overthrow the present government and replace it with one that once again conforms with the will of the Constitution.

To Arms! To Arms A Call for all Americans! Time to overthrow the Goverment!
Hope you enjoy



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 04:35 PM
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In spite of statements at variance with this, the weight of public opinion on the criminal actions of the POTUS and key players in the administration is certainly a major factor in impeachment and removal from office. And this can have some basis in integrity, not just in rats deserting a sinking ship or the less tainted politicians making an attempt to save their careers.

www.votetoimpeach.org is one of hundreds of websites looking at the specific issues of impeachment. It happens to offer people a chance to register their opinion.

ATS offers that chance in another way. But unlike a website focused on the impeachment of Dubya, here there could be as many apologists for Bush's criminality as there are people who want to see the President removed from office and imprisoned. They could even be the "silent majority" that was reflected in the last divided US "election" result. But I doubt it.

Here's some ongoing commentary on Bush riddance starting from two years ago:

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by Spiderj
Well, I think you're as like to find pro busher as you will anti bushers here at ATS, we are a diverse and whacky group.

I personally didn't vote for bush, but as far as impeachment goes considering the neo-con stranglehold I doubt he'll be impeached.

And look at it this way, if they try to impeach him and it doesn't stick, do you want your name on a list of those who were for the impeachment.

Can you say super audit?


Spiderj


Yah, I'm done for huh? Oh well, free room and board at one of our nation's fine containment facilities!



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by kenshiro2012
Actually, I have just finished putting together a thread on PTS on this subject.

If you read the Declaration of Independence It States the following



But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.


I invite you to review the thread as It deals with the possibility that the US Goverment as well as the Supreme Court are in violation of the Constitution and as such, RIGHT but their DUTY of the American citizen to overthrow the present government and replace it with one that once again conforms with the will of the Constitution.

To Arms! To Arms A Call for all Americans! Time to overthrow the Goverment!
Hope you enjoy


Great post, thoughtful and well written. I gave you may last Way Above vote for this month.



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 04:42 PM
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I am Pro-Bush. As long as this "neo-con fascist nazi sheeple" is around, I would not sit by and let ATS become a liberal stronghold. No, sir.

If you want to use this site for that, I could say that many people would be turned off by that, and, in-fact, that goes against the site's motto itself: Deny Ignorance.

You, yourselves, by playing and being involved in such a thing, would be doing the exact opposite, well, unless of course you were anti-Bush.

Denying ignorance goes both ways, my friends.



-wD



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 04:47 PM
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Yah, I'm done for huh? Oh well, free room and board at one of our nation's fine containment facilities!


See, that's what we need a little more positvie attitude. Always look on the bright side of life says the man.

Besides, how many americans actually get to go to Cuba, not many I can tell you.


Spiderj

[edit on 6/28/2005 by Spiderj]



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by WeBDeviL
I am Pro-Bush. As long as this "neo-con fascist nazi sheeple" is around, I would not sit by and let ATS become a liberal stronghold. No, sir.

If you want to use this site for that, I could say that many people would be turned off by that, and, in-fact, that goes against the site's motto itself: Deny Ignorance.

You, yourselves, by playing and being involved in such a thing, would be doing the exact opposite, well, unless of course you were anti-Bush.

Denying ignorance goes both ways, my friends.



-wD


I personally don't want Bush out of office. An impeachment would begin a more in-depth probe about the allegations that would hopefully lead to the truth. I think denying ignorance would be to impeach Bush. I didn't vote at the last election [I know, shame on me!], but if I did vote it would have been for Bush.



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 04:51 PM
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Lol, the idea of ATS having any sway in such a matter makes me chuckle. If you believe ATS to be a real force in that respect you havent brought your heads down out of the clouds. As pointed out the HoR is in charge of impeachement, and the HoR like all good governing bodies is powered by money, not any lofty ideal such as "for the people, by the people." If they money doesnt say impeach bush, then they wont lift one single greasey finger to do anything about him, simple as that.



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 04:53 PM
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Originally posted by WeBDeviL
I am Pro-Bush. As long as this "neo-con fascist nazi sheeple" is around, I would not sit by and let ATS become a liberal stronghold. No, sir.


I agree. I would feel like I'd have to leave ATS if it became the official policy of this website to overthrow the duly-elected President of the United States whom I personally voted for.



posted on Jun, 29 2005 @ 08:24 AM
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Originally posted by alternateheaven
Lol, the idea of ATS having any sway in such a matter makes me chuckle.

Got to agree, here. We're really not cited or quoted much and right now, the bloggers are getting much more attention. Since we're an international population and there's a lot of wild stories on the site, I don't think that we get as much credit as the original poster thought.



posted on Jun, 29 2005 @ 08:28 AM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77

Originally posted by WeBDeviL
I am Pro-Bush. As long as this "neo-con fascist nazi sheeple" is around, I would not sit by and let ATS become a liberal stronghold. No, sir.


I agree. I would feel like I'd have to leave ATS if it became the official policy of this website to overthrow the duly-elected President of the United States whom I personally voted for.



To each is there own, what if the majority does sign it, will you leave? Is it our fault you voted for a liar?



posted on Jun, 29 2005 @ 10:26 AM
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ATS could easily play a role in it, any website could but you would need to gain proof of the actions taken by his direct order or the order of those around him before and then get it published in a National news-paper or on Television.

The main problem is, is getting the proof that he has done something so bad that he should be impeached. Obviously the lies to the people are not enough in America.



posted on Jun, 29 2005 @ 11:04 AM
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Originally posted by FreeThinking1
This site actually lets you cast a vote for impeachment!

Wow! How wonderfully meaningless!


Personally, even if voting on a web site doesn't do anything I'll feel better for having made my opinion known!

What do you mean 'even if'? How do you figure you'r 'vote' has been made known? Its only known to the people that run the site.


If Bush and Co. are truely innocent, the impeachment should bring that out and they would be vindicated of any wrongdoings

You realize that in order to be impeached there have to be actual charges brought up, right? Its not really a trial in the usual sense.


Ordering and directing "first strike" war of aggression against Afghanistan causing thousands of deaths;

Not an impeachable offense.


Removing the government of Afghanistan by force and installing a government of his choice;

Ditto.
p

Authorizing daily intrusions into Iraqi airspace and aerial attacks including attacks on alleged defense installations in Iraq which have killed hundreds of people in time of peace;

These were required the the United Nations.

Authorizing, ordering and condoning attacks in Afghanistan and Iraq on civilians,

This has not happened, and it is not an impeachable offense.

. Threatening the use of nuclear weapons and ordering preparation for their use

Has not happened, and again is not an impeachable offense.

Authorizing, ordering and condoning assassinations,

When the US had the opp to kill bin ladin, they delayed, because they needed to check out the legality of it. So lets see some proof of this accustation.

summary executions

This has not happened.

kidnappings,

The US hasn't kidnapped anyone.

secret and other illegal detentions of individuals

If its a secret, then you don't know that its happened. No one who has been detained has been detained illegally.


, torture and physical

There is no evidence that the administration ordered or was aware of this. There is evidence that they considered the legal rammifications of certain things that weren't normally done, but almost none of those things really class as 'torture'

and psychological coercion of prisoners

Bo ho.

Authorizing, ordering and condoning violations of rights of individuals under the First, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth and Eight Amendments to the Constitution

Finally. SOmething that, if it happened, could actualyl be an impeachable offense. Congratulations to the people who made the website for taking an interest in US laws and the impeachment process.


and of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights,

Not impeachable.

the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights,

Not impeachable.

and other international protections of human rights

Not impeachable. International Laws are not the sorts of things that the president can be impeached out of office for breaking, he has to break US laws, tho I grant that some of these might have the force of law in the US. Care to demonstrate that any of them have actually been broken and that in breaking impeachment is even permitted?


An impeachment would begin a more in-depth probe about the allegations that would hopefully lead to the truth

Actually, it wouldn't. An impeachment doesn't require any sort of investigation. The two houses of congress meet and vote. It doesn't mean that there is going to be some investigation. And the idea of using an impeachment proceeding simply to determine if there is guilt, its ludicrous. You start impeachment after there is a real sense of guilt.



posted on Jun, 29 2005 @ 08:01 PM
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The question, it seems, is "how do I make a difference?"

Internet polls and petitions don't seem to be counted for much at the end of the day in politicians' offices. If I worked for a politician I think I would downplay their significance somewhat, also.

What does affect politicians, even if ever so slightly, and often better than that, is if a citizen does several things:

Learn the routine of lawmaking as it is actually done in your local, state, and national legislatures. Learn the branches of government, read a lot of history, and try to sympathize with your legislator who is working for you. It helps if he or she actually is intelligent. It's incumbent on you to try to be also. It helps to learn about the economy and get a handle on jobs, taxes, and how business routinely is run.

Write your official an intelligent letter or email. If you can't organize your thoughts, it will be discounted. If you can express your concerns clearly, you make your representative's job easier. If your point is good, your representative's secretaries, etc., will be glad to include your correspondence in your representative's mail, and he or she will actually be glad to get your input. If you are honest and don't want to tolerate any dirty dealing, pork barrel, etc., let them know. They will receive the message for what it's worth.

This actually works. More people ought to try it. This is not a cure-all but it needs to be done.



posted on Jun, 29 2005 @ 08:15 PM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77
Nothing is going to come of this...


So, you don't think ATS can be a force for change?

Do you ever look at the numbers of views and posts on threads? There are thousands of people reading you/us. They take what they read and post out into their worlds and maybe, in turn, word will spread.

One thing that aided in bringing an end to Soviet Communism (in whatever measure) was the fax revolution. Anyone ever heard of that? They disseminated information by fax throughout their region.



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