SM, I was always told to spell it Sowhein, not Samhain or another way, Sohwin.

And yes, I know it was mainly Catholics, but Protestants also had that stereotype and bad crap going around to. Besides, they both christian groups.

And you right, no druids, well, no original. Catholic church killed the last one in 1600's and held a celebration. Well, they held festivals for most killings, this was no different, but after this one the druids left went into hiding. With Druids, yes, performed human sacrifices, but no where near as many as christians did.(hell, bible has many in it)

Druids would perform 1-2 a year, on the summer and winter equinox(sp?) and maybe one other if a drought or some other form of catastrophe had/was happening. And it wasn't them breaking your door down and kidnapping some virgin girl and killing her against her will. With that, person was asked, usually not a virgin girl, it was an honor to be chosen for you and your family, and you could always refuse.

Originally posted by SandMan
Good point, mOjOm, the number phi is in there, just like pi has to do with a circle. It all goes back to sacred geometry which I'm sure nobody or hardly anybody on here knows anything about. If you want to know more about it look it up, too complicated and long to explain.

James, you're confusing Christians with Catholics again. Sigh....... Also, I think you need to do a bit more research on the topic. It's Samhain, not Sowhein by the way. Ha ha, no witches aren't all green with warts and such. Think there's no druids anymore, at least a lot of their beliefs? HA!!!

Sacred geometry is fun. Fi and Epsilon, Pi and the other constants in nature. Did you know that our music scala is made according to fi? And that the navel is placed on our bodies according to fi? Together with the telomeres the symetry of our bodies proove to me that we're designed. The eyes are for example placed in the exact middle of the scull. Our head design is indeed created. How else would you make cells which devides according to fi and epsilon to make the eyes come in the middle of our head? By the way if you halve further, you'll see that where the hair starts is right in the middle of the scalp and the eyes. The tip of your nose is also in the exact middle between your chin and your eyes. And I also believe that the mouth is in the golden proportion between the chin and the tip of the nose, and I guess you have seen the image of DaVinci called Manpower.... The geometry of the species is designed. We are all modeled. Each hair on our heads have been counted.

Just like modern car designers model their new designs in clay which are then scanned in to a computer which in it's turn render it out in 3D, God first modelled Man in clay and then converted it, perhaps using a computer, into the DNA code and built a mother cell which started to multiply and become Man. Woman however was a female clone of Man. The creation record of the Bible is extremely accurate about these things: Only a man's DNA can be used to create both males and females, while the female DNA can only be used to create other females. Perhaps the sacred Name of God, known as the Tetragram or YHWH is the first string of the DNA code in the image of God. The tetragram is just a small part of the Name of God which is an increddibly long word/code. Traditionally devided into "blocks" or "bytes" containing 72 "bits". Is Man's DNA programming based on a 72 bit code? Anyone with some nuclear biology knowledge here who could answer this?

Edit: About the druids, they are still around allright. In my town they have a lodge, the House of Druids, and they use a septagram (seven pointed star, one of the most complex geometric shapes by the way, they still can't make it out mathmatically) in their logo.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

[Edited on 24-8-2003 by mikromarius]

i like to ask other opinion about the pentagram too,it seem pentagram from western more to math in calculation but pentagram in asia is more near to art it any comment about this diffrent

Originally posted by Netchicken
From my deep knowledge on the subject i have discovered that a penticle is 1/2 a tenticle.
pent = 5
ten = ten

Seeing tenticles are on octopuses (octopai?) then a 1/2 tenticle, or penticle, will be on a 1/2 octopus

So it is equal to 1/2 an octopus, which makes it a quadopus.

I hope this helps
[Edited on 15-8-2003 by Netchicken]

And remember, half an octopus has four arms... and fore-warned is four-armed.


(ahem. It's a pun. You know; "forewarned is forearmed?" Four. Fore? Ah... fergetit!)

We now return you to your regularly scheduled spectating.

Originally posted by Netchicken
From my deep knowledge on the subject i have discovered that a penticle is 1/2 a tenticle.
pent = 5
ten = ten

Seeing tenticles are on octopuses (octopai?) then a 1/2 tenticle, or penticle, will be on a 1/2 octopus

So it is equal to 1/2 an octopus, which makes it a quadopus.

I hope this helps


[Edited on 15-8-2003 by Netchicken]

The master geometrist Pythagoras called this symbol "Health" - A lot of Fundamentalists would be shocked to know that in some European Cultures this Symbol was considered "Christian". Normally it is drawn Upward. If you want to perform a bit of that "Black Magick" then you would draw it Upside down - That NEGATES the Symbol - the Same is true with the "Roman Catholic" Cross but not with say a Hexagram or a TAU Cross!

the penticle is a symbol commonly used with pagans and contrary to what most christians think, actually stands for light. wheras the pentagram (an inverted penticle) either stands for darkness.

Sowhein, not Samhain or another way, Sohwin.

i think you will find Sohwin and Sowein are late model phoenitic
corruptions of the earlier Samhain.


the pentagram with the single point up indicates the spiritual , with the single
point down indicates the earthly or marerial.

there are also traditions in which the point up indicates 1st degree, and point down is 2nd degree.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Mycroft, I am surprised!!! Someone on this board besides me knows that the pentacle/pentagram isn't satanic!!!!

Anyways, the points on a pentacle/pentagram= Spirit, earth, fire, water, air(clockwise from top). This is used by witches to signify that the soul is above the material things of this world or a witch that is good with ESP/mind power to show that is what it is good with.

With it upside down it is to show either the fact the person believes the material world is more important than the soul or that they are better with elemental magic than mind power.

With satanists, christians do this. Why? Same reason they stole all their holidays, to get followers. They made the witch god(Hurn, the female has no name, usually just goddess or mother, so forth) and made his image into the image of satan to make people think that Hurn was evil, when witches don't believe in evil.

Christmas? Stolen from witches, was known as Yule. Easter? Stolen, was Ostara. Halloween? Stolen, it was Sowhein.

I'm a generational Witch...I know very well that it has nothing to do with Satanism! I would imagine there are many here that know that truth.

You know, I was once playing around with one of the starry night programs. I put view exactly above the northpole and so far away that the inner solar system was visible. And the Earth was stationary so it appears that everything was revolving around it. The movements sun and planets relative to the "stationary" Earth all had linear indicators. I noticed that the sun made a pentragram like movement around the Earth and that the movement the other planets made looked like the golden ratio.

Funny eh?

I might put a screenshot later.

a friend of mine once told me that the right-side up pentagram means god(spritual force) over matter, and upside down pentagram means matter over god(spiritual force), this one works out well because satanism (as done by anton lavey) is "indulgence not abstinence" and in satanism there is no guilt or actual punishment for doing "bad" things, in wicca supposedly when you do bad things it comes back to you 3 fold, following with christianity's idea of guilting people into staying in line

the pentagram with the single point up indicates the spiritual , with the single
point down indicates the earthly or marerial.

Precisely. If one was to visualize a magical working affecting the material (such as a money spell) in the form of a pentagram, it would have to be inverted. IMHO, of course.

And, as always, good and evil are human concepts. While symbols can represent certain ideas, they are not good or evil in and of themselves. As an example, the swastika is a sacred symbol in Hinduism, yet it was perverted to represent Nazi idealogy. If one considers the pentagram to be a symbol of evil because certain persons use it inverted, then the same must be said of the cross for the same reasons.

Precisely! Very good Pyro & Hecate!!! It makes sense no? Do you see how easy it is form Humans to Manipulate Symbols & their meanings?

The five pointed star so revered and reviled is based on the movements of Venus in the night sky over a period of 40 years. A bit of Googling on Venus will get loads of material.This was observed as far back as 3500 BC and is the symbol that Pythagoras wore.
The cult of Mithras, (which I believe was a stepping stone to the Old Jerusalem Church and later to Christianity), used the Pentagram as a symbol for Venus, which they associated with that Goddess.
There are a very few symbols that are as hoary with age as the five pointed star. One would be the spiral, or triple spiral...another the labyrinth, which predates the Greek application.

Christianity is a newcomer at 2000 years, but Wicca is a babe in the cradle, having only a half century of existance. Wicca is based on a mishmash of very old pagan traditions and cobbled together by such persons as Gerald B.Gardner and/ or the mystics of The Golden Dawn. The best book I've seen on Wicca is 'The Witches Bible' by Janet and Stewart Farrar. Another excellent author is Vivianne Crowley in her book 'Wicca'. (not to be confused with Aleister Crowley who is another founder)

The multitudes of paths down that nature based theological road are as varied as any religion.

Connecting the pentagram to Wicca is like saying the double arches of a Micky Dee were connected to the oldest pyramid in Egypt.

Quote: "used the Pentagram as a symbol for Venus, which they associated with that Goddess." - also known as Ishtar or Astarte!!

Exactly!!! This is the main point of the (Lucifer - the Morningstar - a.k.a VENUS) Controversy that is going on now. All of this info is coming out & there is Nothing that the Fundamentalist can do to stop it. It drives them Crazy! Did you know that one Hardcore Nut actually wrote his own book to Refute the "Da Vinci Code"!!!!

i dont know if anyone said this yet (cant remember) but also the 5 pointed star can supposedly represent the 5 wounds of jesus (wicca is loosely based on christianity, no?) and about the whole "bad" and "good" thing thats what drives most religions, making something "bad" makes people act unnaturally, the '7 deadly sins' (greed and uhh.. 6 other things i cant remember) are all natural things of humans, satanism says if we feel these things, then why are they wrong?

too tired to make words

Quote: "the whole "bad" and "good" thing" = DUALISM!!!

i.e. Good & Evil or Light & Darkness or Positive & Negative - you get the Idea!!!

i read someplace that Venus the planet not the Goddess, in the
course of its travels across the sky, every 4 years i think it was describes
a perfect pentagram.