childhood "vaccinations"

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posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 12:39 PM
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Hey all. I haven't read this entire thread cuz the posts are a long and sorta boring. but here's my two ta three cence. I have never been vaccinated in my enitre life. I am now 13, and the only serious thing I have ever gotten is whooping cough. I actually have a stronger immmune system than most. All you have to do to get out of vaccinating your children or yourself is make a religious pledge, stating that it is against your religion and morals to get vaccinated. Thats what my mom did.




posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 02:55 PM
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if you put the chart opf people recieveing vaccinations next to a chart of the rise in autism they are exactly the same, nice lil bit of info that might help



posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by Annacryst
if you put the chart opf people recieveing vaccinations next to a chart of the rise in autism they are exactly the same, nice lil bit of info that might help


Why don't you find those charts to illustrate your point?

I'm sure they're not so difficult to find online



posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 04:05 PM
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rather than find a single chart heres a plethera of articles ect on the issue of vaccinations and autism. the actual chart i saw on a health channel special a while back so heres the best i can do for now autism.about.com...



posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 04:30 PM
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From your own links....

"The medical community has relied mainly on epidemiology - the statistical study of large populations. These studies have overwhelmingly found no link between autism and MMR. Opponents claim that some of these studies might have flaws, but there are over a dozen epidemiological studies in different countries that use different techniques that have reached the same conclusion."

BBC article

Another about.com link to study "disproving" link

Non US-based study results

Another BJM (British Journal of Medicine) excerpt:

"These findings provide no support for an MMR associated "new variant" form of autism with developmental regression and bowel problems, and further evidence against involvement of MMR vaccine in the initiation of autism. "

MMR & Autism study

However....

This page does suggest a possible link between autism in certain at-risk children and the vaccine.

To wit..

"Deth and colleagues suggest that exposure to thimerosal, even in doses as low as those contained in one vaccine, has the ability to disrupt methylation. The theory is that certain children are more at risk than others because they lack the normal ability to excrete metals like thimerosal in the urine."

So, we have several observations which support that there's no link, and one or two which suggest there might a link, but only amongst certain children who already have a reduced capacity to excrete certain metals..

I'm still following this up; any and all comments always welcome



posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by blanketgirl
Quest,
Obviously you have had good experiences with doctors/medications. That is great, I am happy for you. Maybe you and your relatives are the perfect people for doctors to work with.

Have you looked into any of the factors outside of vaccines that are leading to longer life spans? Ever thought about sanitation? Nutrition? the MAJOR change in the average quality of life in the past 50-100 years?

My grandmother had 10 kids. None vaccinated, most of the current vaccines weren't even out yet. The first one to die was 50 when he had a heart attack.
I'm sorry your grandmother's children didn't fare so well, but that doesn't mean these diseases hit everybody's families so hard. The vaccines we have today are for diseases that were once just considered normal childhood illnesses, their effects have been glorified to us by the people who make money off the vaccines.

Your doctor gets paid to tell you your children run a severe risk and could die if they aren't vaccinated for X... for example: Why on earth would you vaccinate a newborn for Hepatitus A? They aren't even at risk until they are old enough to need the booster shot which most of them never get.

Vitamins were once considered unhealthy, people didn't have cleaning and disinfecting products shielding their homes from the littlest virus and you used to have more children out working in fields tending animals. People now are broke but more developed countries don't have so many malnutritioned bodies who can't fight off illness like they used to.

Then you can look at something like Polio in the US, after the redid the vaccine because the original was killing people (but remember, it was extensively tested before being released...)
Documented cases of Polio were in rapid decline BEFORE the vaccine was put out. There is no way to know how effective it really was in the population because the disease was on it's way out before it got to any of the people who needed it.

I trust that your grandmother has many wise things to say, but her thinking vaccines are the reason children survive doesn't make it the reality.


Originally posted by QuestForSafety
I think your completely hypocritical, I have FACTS to rely on, such as average of 2 out of 6 children surviving before vaccinations were invented, and now an average of nearly 6/6, with minor decimal problems.

So that's that I guess, if you want to believe your own life experiences over the world's data, then fine, let's go to life experiences.

EVERY child born into my family, distant family, ect, has lived, and has been vaccinated properly, to ensure health.

As for my grandma? She tells me out of 8 kids she had....(Yes she was a baby machine), but I asked her why, she said because back in her day it was just what happened since they didn't have the vaccinations they do today, the kids would get some disease, causing anything from severe high fever, to lack of brain function, then boom, they'd die. Out of all her children she only has 3 left, and she says she can take it more easily, because all the others died when they were young, and she realizes now if she would have known about vaccinations in her time, she would have listened, and had them for her children.


So you want to go back to 'the good old days' type of arguement, where our lifespans were less than HALF of what they are now, on average. Both Canada, and US have improved tremendously, particularily Canada with average lifespan to be 80 for women, and 76 for men, last time I checked.

So you can basically spout all you want, but if things *Were* back to the 'good' days, where people thought it was a legend to survive past 40, then....it would really be a world with massive death in it, since people would need to have many babies hoping they all survive........

Like the world WAS.

If you want it back that way fine, and if you feel you need to interfere with your daughters plans, go ahead, but I HOPE you do your research to extreme degrees, beyond old times, and nostalgic memories on the farm, before you make a final consideration.



posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 05:43 PM
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Carpel Tunnel Syndrome.

Let's do surgery! We'll make the channel bigger.


My mother had intense pain, after this surgery on both her wrists, her pain is alleviated, and she can actually USE her wrists again, and lift things once more, when before she had lost the ability to do so....

As for the rest of your slosh.......I think Tinklflower put it fine about how BlanketGirl deals with things too, your the one brainwashed by the 'old ways being the best', and by the way, this day in age, NO doctor would EVER recommend spanking a child, this type of harmful behavior is from YOUR 'good old days' mindsets.



posted on Aug, 6 2005 @ 11:38 AM
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>'Golemina - at the risk of a warning, do you have anything to offer other than a post filled with..uh..twaddle? '



Working with autistic children, besides having infinite patience, I parse behavior at about 20 levels... There is absolutely nothing you can say (or do) that won't elicit amusement.


This tendency of yours to seem to want to verbally lash out at people that dare to come back in discussion (see your other threads
) more than once is typically brought out by a left/right brain integration struggle. This inability to speedily coordinate... (Your left brain has something clever to say and you're essentially suppressing it.). you're basically timing out and tend to serve up an anger-based response.

Though starting to seriously drift OT, this dysfunction of yours is EASY to fix.

I am here to help and I would be more than glad to help you get started on a simple series of exercises that will help you resolve this little problem of yours.


Just think of it as making you a more capable advocate...


>'Don't you see you're being as extreme as the person who demands antibiotics for a common cold? '
That is quite the leap... Extreme? Antibiotics? Where are you getting this from?


>'Or did we hit on your agenda? I can stick smilies throughout a post, too - it doesn't change the message, believe me.'

Again with the disinformation tactics... Let's stick to the issues.


>'Ideally, it'd be about balance, surely? Not decrying doctors/medicines "just because"?

What you seem to refuse to want to even consider is that it should be about what really WORKS.

What you seem to refuse to want to even consider is that it should be about what is good for the patient... You know... REAL people... REAL human beings.

What you seem to refuse to want to even consider is that NONE of us would be here discussing this topic if MDs weren't mass damaging/killing LITTLE KIDS with vaccines and then just sweeping ANY adverse info under the rug (generating BILLIONS of dollars worth of profits for the Pharmos) using EXACTLY the same methods MDs used to use to support the tabacco industry!

The ultimate act of suppression occurred on the heels of 9/11 when in the name of 'nation security' the manufacturers of vaccines were indemnified from punitive lawsuits. Meaning that the most victims of vaccines could receive, IF they won their legal case, was $250,000.

In the ultimate Catch-22, the very first legal hurdle you have to overcome is to substantiate that an adverse reaction was recorded immediately following the 'innoculation'!


Food for thought for the more open-minded readers in this thread...

thinktwice.com...

Several other things to consider...

The Japanese fully understand that a child enjoys his mom's inherited immune system for the first 18 months of life and haven't bought into this $ystem of innoculating newborns and wait until the childs immune system becomes functional...

Edward Hooper does an exceptional job in documenting the introduction of HIV/AIDS into the human population via some seriously sloppy lab work and mass innoculation trials on Africans in 'The River'... Hugely long , tedious and dryly written, but well worth the read.

It has been noted that though somewhat rare when doctors go on strike... well, the mortality rates go down!



[edit on 6-8-2005 by golemina]

[edit on 6-8-2005 by golemina]

[edit on 6-8-2005 by golemina]

[edit on 6-8-2005 by golemina]



posted on Aug, 7 2005 @ 06:33 AM
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Originally posted by Kushi
All you have to do to get out of vaccinating your children or yourself is make a religious pledge, stating that it is against your religion and morals to get vaccinated. Thats what my mom did.


You can do that in the US and still enrol your kids at school? Huh, I had no idea


Interesting though; England never had any certification requirements when it came to enrolling your child at school, and the idea seemed odd to me (as an immigrant to the US) to begin with. But I digress.

About Edward Hooper.

Some of us have indeed read the book.

And some of us have indeed taken the time (years, in my case) to read other theories, hypotheses and rumours relating to HIV.

Let's just take another look:

The earliest documented case of HIV-1, the type of HIV that set off the global pandemic, was a 25-year-old merchant marine from Manchester, England, who died of AIDS in 1959.

The sailor, according to the medical journal the Lancet, had traveled to Africa in 1955 but had returned to England before the Wistar polio trials had begun in Congo in 1957 (Wistar being the makers of the vaccine used in Hooper's hypothesis).

He had left Congo before the trials began.

Perhaps more importantly though, the vaccine in question was made from kidney cells from the macaque monkey, and the SIV/HIV link comes from chimpanzees....not the macaque monkey, who don't actually carry SIV.



posted on Aug, 7 2005 @ 10:13 PM
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Tinkleflower,
something you might want to look into more (which would probably save you time) is not the idea that a single vaccine alone causes autism, but that the buildup of metals that children get from a number of vaccines is the cause.
In my opinion, it seems a lot of people who are about to stuble on to something fall critically short by selling out to the idea it is just the MMR.

Growing up I was always taught that mercury tended to stay in your system, it treated like common knowledge. I was told this by parents, teachers and at one time a classmate. That is why you aren't supposed to break and thermometer and play with it, because trace amounts will stay with you and over time they add up.

It is my opinion that those trace amounts, if they get into you early enough could cause autism. I would suggest it happens around the MMR shot because that is about the age and point in the vaccine schedule when the child has just had enough.

I find it interesting to look at the stories from parents who took their "normal" healthy child to the doctor who within hours or days of a shot would stop talking, making eye contact, or whatever and the child was never considered normal or healthy again.
From what I have seen that sort of story is more the norm than the exception.


Originally posted by Tinkleflower
So, we have several observations which support that there's no link, and one or two which suggest there might a link, but only amongst certain children who already have a reduced capacity to excrete certain metals..

I'm still following this up; any and all comments always welcome





posted on Aug, 7 2005 @ 10:18 PM
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You quoted my post, but did you read any of it? I was talking about how the old times sucked. How people didn't have sanitation or do things that kept them healthy...

As far as the farm goes, I'm talking about kids shoveling feces, up to their elbows in dirt and barely rinsing before shoving candy or food into their mouths, people using outhouses and having no medication or vitamin supplements.

If you think of that as nostalgic, well I don't. I don't even know how to approach that one.

but immunizations are far from the only thing thrown into the mix as far as our healthcare.


Originally posted by QuestForSafety
Like the world WAS.

If you want it back that way fine, and if you feel you need to interfere with your daughters plans, go ahead, but I HOPE you do your research to extreme degrees, beyond old times, and nostalgic memories on the farm, before you make a final consideration.



posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 01:04 PM
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dont forget what happened to Hatter back in the day from soaking there beaver pelt hats in mercury, thats where the alice in wonderland character originated. Mercury=Madness i guess



posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 02:01 PM
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We know that mercury is a health hazard. This isn't something we've just discovered.

Mercury poisoning attacks the nervous system, causing drooling, hair loss, uncontrollable muscle twitching, a lurching gait, and difficulties in talking and thinking clearly. Whilst autism sometimes shares some of these symptoms, it doesn't generally involve hair loss and the more common physical symptoms associated with mercury poisoning.

Sure, it's possible a buildup of mercury (from vaccines) can cause certain symptoms in children...but if that's the case, we'd find correlating lower rates of autism in places where those vaccinations are not used, and we don't see this.



[edit on 8-8-2005 by Tinkleflower]



posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 02:13 PM
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My daughter is in the process of getting her Hepatitis vaccinations, which is a requirement in the State of Illinois. I asked my doctor why it was a requirement.

He said, it is basically impossible for a child to get Hepatitis unless they are sharing needles, or having sex. Illinois made it state law, so as not to single out a certain group of people living in the inner city of Chicago.

BTW...... our insurance does not cover these shots (Thank you BC/BS!) and they are about $93.00 each. Doesn't matter if it is state required, Blue Cross/Blue Shield still considers this a routine doctor visit.



posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 02:23 PM
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Which type of hepatitis is the vaccine covering?

Hep A can be transmitted through infected food, as well as coming into contact with another sufferer...this is the type more commonly found in childhood epidemics.

B is generally transmitted via sexual activity or blood.

C is only transmitted through blood.

I'm assuming the vaccine will cover A&B? And out of sheer curiosity, is this a requirement before you can send your child to school in the US? (Sorry, I wasn't schooled here - we don't have any such requirements in England!).



posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 02:27 PM
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nathraq,
Just a quick note, you can get the vacinations through the local state health offices. In Tx, it costs me $10 for a visit to get the shots updated.
I do not know what the rate is where you live but I am sure that if you check around you will find the same resources.



posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 02:46 PM
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The actual laws involving vaccines and schools are state mandated.
Each state has it's own set of guidelines and requirements.

All allow medical exeptions, some allow other reasons...
this site has a list (first thing i found on google, don't know what the rest of it is)

Of course, as with any sort of requirement then there are the schools that try to tell parents they can't do that, a lot of people don't know it is possible to not get the vaccines. There are kids who are denied entry to schools because of school board members who don't know the laws.

I tried to look around and find numbers of autism cases in geographical areas vs. where people get vaccines most... nothing good came up. Do you know where we would even find numbers like that?


Originally posted by Tinkleflower
I'm assuming the vaccine will cover A&B? And out of sheer curiosity, is this a requirement before you can send your child to school in the US? (Sorry, I wasn't schooled here - we don't have any such requirements in England!).



posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 03:08 PM
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Excerpt from the BBC:

"The latest research from Japan studied autism rates in over 31,000 children up to the age of seven, who were born before and after the withdrawal of the MMR jab in that country. It was found that autism rates continued to rise after the triple vaccine was withdrawn in 1993, whereas rates would have been expected to fall if the jab was a major cause."

Full article here

More on the Japanese study

Canada saw it's MMR coverage fall from 92% to 84% between 1995 and 2002, but conversely saw autism cases on the rise during the same period.

Linky 1

Linky 2

Something else to consider:

There are improved diagnostic methods and better reporting practices, and the definition of autism was broadened a few years ago. Currently many adults and children are being diagnosed with autism where once they would have been labeled something else or had no diagnosis. Also, children are being diagnosed at much younger ages; this has to explain, at least in part, the perceived increase in cases of autism.



posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 03:38 PM
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I've just come across this:

"MMR & Autism" link researcher discredited

There's more here, but the site is quite a bit more inflammatory (the site is authored by the journalist who actually ran the entire "MMR Lies" story).

Perhaps a telling point is this:

"Unknown to The Lancet, Wakefield was being paid for a second study into whether children allegedly damaged by the MMR could sue. Yesterday the journal's editor admitted the research was compromised by a financial conflict of interest."

But more worryingly:

"...nine months before the 1998 press conference, Dr Wakefield had filed patent applications at the London Patent Office for a new, alternative single measles vaccine and several potential treatments and even "cures" for inflammatory bowel disease and autism"

That is simply...well, "unethical" doesn't quite cover it. He had to find something dangerous about the vaccine, to "prove" that his was safer and a more viable product.

The Lancet's editor said he would not have published the study if he had known of the conflict of interest, and eventually both The Lancet and Wakefield officially retracted the claims made in Wakefield's study.



posted on Aug, 8 2005 @ 04:32 PM
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I have friends who refused to have their children immunized. There is nothing in the world wrong with these children. Of the children, one of them is now 14 yrs old and has never been sick. My other friend's daughter is 5 and never gets sick either. They are mentally and physically in great shape. Sounds like you have done some research into it. Ultimately, it should be up to the parents. If you don't feel right about something, investigate what is raising the questions; causing you to have suspicions or doubt.
JAH bless the children!





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