Originally posted by golemina
Thank you for at least the kind tone in your 'responses'.
>'Golemnia that is the most FOOLISH thing I ever heard. That hick logic will end up getting your children seriously deformed, permanent physical
damage, or KILLED most likely, since you've already decided the entire medical industry is 'evil'.'
I find it strange that people defending innoculations (and drug-based conventional medicine) always need to use disinformation techniques or
fear-mongering in transparent attempts to sway people to the effectiveness of 'conventional' medicine (or the supposed ineffectiveness of
I don't mean to be rude QuestForSafety, but when it comes to fact, when it comes to the reality of the statements you are offering up in defense of
MDs, you are just a walking propagandist, spouting mostly vague generalizations, with absolutely no valid basis.
You sound like nice folks, but you sound so brainwashed you don't even hear yourselves... Go back and reread your posts... you seem to blindly equate
caring for disease with drugs+innoculations!
Or even better... you read a database! Please, have mercy. I might have hurt myself laughing.
A database? Great... Make sure you give me the 'cures' (or causes ) for autism (in all its forms... all the 'D's) + cancer.
The problem is attention to detail... Some might say I've been blessed (or cursed ) with superior attention to detail. You know... the kind that
lets you REALLY understand certain types of information.
The basic bottom line is most people are simply not able to break thru the veneer that surrounds 'conventional' medicine and see that it is long on
dogma and short on results. With the exception of emergency medicine (those boys and girls simply kick ass ), the supposed efficacy of
'conventional' medicine is an absolute fraud, a statistical manipulation accomplished with smoke and mirrors.
The statement about 'adding years'... would be uproariously funny if it didn't involve REAL peoples lives. I couldn't help but notice, you didn't
bring up the quality of life of those 'added years'.
The truth is you win some, you lose some. What that means for me, is my friends that went conventional in dealing with cancer... They are ALL DEAD.
Those that went with alternative medicine, the have ALL recovered, the ones that were given a death sentence were especially sweet (2x).
(When the health care you are receiving has you starting to circle the drain, go see an alternative practitioner. )
For me the lose was not being able to help those that needed it the most and their absolute blind trust in people who were SUPPOSED to be watching out
for their well-being...
Like I might have said before 'people will believe what they want to believe'...
>'So you decide if it's a doctor's 'guilt trip'.'
Don't worry. Doctors are totally immune to that type dialogue... They have their consciouses surgically removed in the first week of medical
school... You know... in the same procedure where they are taught not to personally identify with the patient!
[edit on 4-8-2005 by golemina]
I think your completely hypocritical, I have FACTS to rely on, such as average of 2 out of 6 children surviving before vaccinations were invented, and
now an average of nearly 6/6, with minor decimal problems.
So that's that I guess, if you want to believe your own life experiences over the world's data, then fine, let's go to life experiences.
EVERY child born into my family, distant family, ect, has lived, and has been vaccinated properly, to ensure health.
As for my grandma? She tells me out of 8 kids she had....(Yes she was a baby machine), but I asked her why, she said because back in her day it was
just what happened since they didn't have the vaccinations they do today, the kids would get some disease, causing anything from severe high fever,
to lack of brain function, then boom, they'd die. Out of all her children she only has 3 left, and she says she can take it more easily, because all
the others died when they were young, and she realizes now if she would have known about vaccinations in her time, she would have listened, and had
them for her children.
But whatever, as you say, maybe there "all out to get us", perhaps the medical community is a bunch of brainwashed people who want to provide people
with no help, just make money by prescribing more drugs...(Even though this has nothing to do with the doctors actual pay).
In MY experiences, and the experiences of the world, MANY drugs, help patients tremendously....for example, the antibiotics I receieved for INTENSE
kidney pain, when my kidney's were dangerously near shutting down, I was younger, and luckily my parents weren't stupid paranoid anti doctor
individuals, so I got the antibiotics, took them, and had to take them a couple times later for affects, but now nearly 10 years later, I have not had
one single kidney infection, or problem since. So personally, since they've saved my life, and those of billions of children who were able to be
vaccinated, I do trust in medicines, not blindly, as I research some, but I do trust in them.
It's interesting someone brought up Vioxx, backpain/joint medication if I'm right, a pain med basically, that's supposed to also help. It WAS
taken off the market, but when you look more deeply at it, simply because more side affects were discovered, not potentially horrid ones for MOST
people, but tiny instances like this cause companies to go berserk, n take things off the shelves. My mother, and sister were both on Vioxx, Jenn no
longer is, but mum actually has the stuff specially ordered, as she's a nurse, and knows the risks, and hasn't found a suitable replacement for that
drug, despite trying various other kinds, which didn't quite work.
So no, I'm not brainwashed, in fact I've flat out refused medications at times, simply because I don't wish to involve their side effects, which
don't outweigh good effects, for SOME particular cases, in other cases, I've gone against doctor advise, and ASKED for a certain medication I
researched, finding that for me, it would have more gains than things possibly going wrong, since I know I'm young n healthy, not likely to
experience liver problems, especially since I take many healthy suppliments, and also antioxidants, to prevent free radical damage, and get rid of
toxins in the body causing harm to cells, or danger.
In the end it comes down to this, are you the brainwashed one? From a few life experiences, as TRAGIC, and SERIOUS as they must have been, perhaps
you don't realize how much they effect you. Going to the extent to say all doctors are frauds, and no medicine really works is just plain foolish,
one day when it comes to something like....say lowering your cholesteral, maybe you'll listen to your doctor, and lead a NORMAL perfectly healthy
life, or maybe you'll refuse, and have a heart attack within a low time frame after....or who knows, maybe you'll get LUCKY, and manage to get
through without problems, just suffering from the minor symptoms of high cholesteral, or whatever, it's only hypothetical.
I just think you should really take a better look at the medical community, not totally toss them away, your personal real life cases involving cancer
may be complete coincidences, especially when compared to....YES mass data, involving millions of people, not just a few friends, who got lucky n made
it on their OWN bodies defences, not voodoo magic of some other practioner, for god knows some of the cures some ppl rant about are just deadly, and
could cause it to spread faster....., and as for your friends dying, I'm really sorry to hear that....I've lost many friends/3 family members to
cancer myself, and it saddens me greatly, but also like you I have my experiences....
HOWEVER, my mothers cousin lived 18 years longer than expected, because the kimotherapy, managed to keep the cancer from spreading, no cure, but it
kept it from spreading FASTER, for all those years, when according to the tests, without treatment he would have died right away.
As for my other family members they were both old, and all I know is that as soon as they said they'd had enough of the treatments, and wanted to try
just going on their own hoping for the best, they both died within a few weeks...exactly what the doctor told them....if they had listened....they
might still be alive today...maybe a bit of hair loss...maybe some weakness from the kimo, or radiation therapy, but they'd be ALIVE, there would be
a chance, and they would be happy to be around longer, I know it, since they miss their loved ones, and I could see that in the eyes of my
grandfather, as he lay dying in his bed, after he gave up on the treatments, it was over......they gave his body a chance to last longer...to prevent
fast spreading.....oncef stopped the cancer was so far it spread so rapidly he literally just died before our eyes...
Anyway.....I've now allowed you to see I quote both statistics, and also personal references, but there's something you missed in my rantlike post.
It was not me being brainwashed, if you look closely, there was plain LOGIC, a thinking pattern was displayed, given as an example, and shown that
logically anyone who cared about their children would vaccinate them.
That's all I can say, in my opinion.