childhood "vaccinations"

My girl has a 9 month year old daughter whose already been introduced to half her vaccinations, if you can call them that. In the next few days she's scheduled to get more. The mother of the 9mnth yr old is only 16 and her mother will be taking her to the appointment. I'm trying to convince her that it is not illegal to refuse these shots, that it is only useful for trying to get a child into the public school system. I don't think she's talked with her own mother about my opinion yet, but I know when the cats out of the bag, I'm going to get opposition from every angle, doctor, mother, siblings, etc. If not because their nature is to believe a doctor over an 18 yr old high school grad of '05, but also simply in spite of me because they're not happy with me or any of their daughter's other decisions; ya know, after having a kid under aged and all...difference is unlike them, I care with unconditional love, so...

First, the public school system is ridiculous in itself, along with the irrelevant requirement of immunization records needed for acceptance into these schools.

I've read hundreds of articles on thimersal and I know all about that, I simply need evidence or an article proving or at least showing that this mercury based preservative is still being used in these vaccinations, because doctors these days have made the widespread belief that they're not. I'd like the names of the very vaccinations that contain thimersal and their make up and how I can show it to a doctor's face, if possible, otherwise I'm just looking for a well written article of some kind.

I dunnot believe that the mother's doctor is conspiring or even aware of the harm done by childhood vaccinations. I believe that doctor's know what their schooling teaches them, and naturally when one questions their authority on the matter they raise their "well I'm the one who has a degree" attitude. The medical schools themselves don't even know what they're teaching anymore. Could anyone provide an article on this topic as well maybe?

Also, beyond thimersal, what other vaccinations contain harmful effects? It is simply just not natural to say that an infant HAS to get the immunizations. Aren't we born with an immune system? Who the heck said, and when and WHY, did they begin to say that all children must go through this crap, especially, who has the right to say what a child needs in a society that has lost itself so badly that it thinks of war as a necessity? In a society that ignores its own youth, and no wonder it runs rampit, with drugs and premarrital sex. In a society with such refined food that causes an overproduction of hormones in children and growing teens. In a society that #s, sleeps, eats, and baths and throws its trash all in the same place. Where the Department of Defense has the largest corporate budget than any other, while completely ignoring the cries of the medical system and education system.

Its not natural. It harms the brain, these shots. Shuts off part of the mind, kills the imagination, has a docile effect, just like our flouridated drinking water. Stunts development in infants. Can someone help me with artcles on these issues, thimersal and other vaccines, to help convince these people who think so arrogantly that they're COMPLETELY right and sure, that in actually no one is sure? Or that at least the medical profession should not be trusted to its word, because it itself trusts in its own word which isn't even true fact!?

whatever the case, I appreciate all the help I can get and I'll be around on these boards for favors in return.

Thanks

kindly advise the actual vaccination the child is scheduled to receive. You can then research the likely manufacturers and try to find out whats in the shot


"My girl has a 9 month year old daughter whose already been introduced to half her vaccinations, if you can call them that. In the next few days she's scheduled to get more. The mother of the 9mnth yr old is only 16 and her mother will be taking her to the appointment"

so are you the grandpa ? I only ask for HIPAA and legal reasons.

I'd like to offer as contrary examples all the people born in the 1920's-1940's (who had a whole battery of shots and yes, they certainly did contain mercury) and those of us who grew up in the military. I don't know how many injections my brother and I got, but I believe it certainly was triple the number that people get today, and perhaps as many as five times the number.

It seemed we were getting smallpox innoculations every time we turned around.

If they were THAT harmful, the military dependants would have a staggeringly high proportion of autism and other problems. Parents and grandparents born in the 1920-1950 decade would be autistic, or dead. You can do a little research for yourself by simply asking people born 1940-1970 how many people they knew who died after getting vaccinations and how many autistic people they know. The answer will, for most of them, be "none."

And check the military brats. As I said, we had up to 5 times the immunizations that the rest of you did from the time we were born.

[edit on 28-6-2005 by Byrd]

I've read hundreds of articles on thimersal so shouldn't you be educating us ?and I know all about that, I simply need evidence or an article proving or at least showing that this mercury based preservative is still being used in these vaccinations, because doctors these days have made the widespread belief that they're not. I'd like the names of the very vaccinations that contain thimersal so ask the doc what they plan on using and their make up and how I can show it to a doctor's face, fyi, the doc has every right to have the PARENT sign a refusal letter if you confront them like this if possible, otherwise I'm just looking for a well written article of some kind.

I dunnot believe that the mother's doctor is conspiring or even aware of the harm done by childhood vaccinations. they have to maintain certification, they read new journals constantly I believe that doctor's know what their schooling teaches them, and naturally when one questions their authority on the matter they raise their "well I'm the one who has a degree" attitude. The medical schools themselves don't even know what they're teaching anymore. really ? Could anyone provide an article on this topic as well maybe?

Yes, you probably want to find out exactly which vaccinations the child will recieve.


In regards to people 60-80 years ago being fine with their vaccines, not only were people getting completely different vaccines, but child mortality rates were generally higher, so people wouldn't have reason to blame the vaccine as opposed to some illness or whatever.

I do find it a bit fishy that we have a number of vaccines that as they were introduced predictable side effects become a chronic disease for that generation.
Take Chrone's disease... people 30 years ago didn't have it so much, yet it is common in my generation, the same group who got the first MMR shots. (vaccines for diseases that live in the intestines...)

You may want to talk to her about the possibility of delaying some vaccines.
My daughter is 2, and I decided that whether or not it was a direct result, there seemed to be many people suggesting that vaccines were more harmful because the child was so young...

so she didn't get any vaccines until she turned 2. At that point her brain/blood barrier was fully formed and she wouldn't be a SIDS case, and I knew whether she would be autistic before I started. Seeing as how I think it's getting close to 1%, I wanted to know if it was going to happen while she was unscathed, rather than see it and have to wonder.

In today's world, there are so many vaccinated children it is truly more dangerous not to vaccinate-
non-vaccinated people are more likely to catch terribly diseases while they are older. Most diseases we vaccinate for are truly deadly for adults (much more so than children)
I fear the shingles outbreak we will probably get in 10-15 years. All the people who didn't realize they needed the chicken pox booster...

Originally posted by syrinx high priest


"My girl has a 9 month year old daughter whose already been introduced to half her vaccinations,

so are you the grandpa ?

I think that was slang, like my girl, my boy, my hommie bling and the others.

I was always skeptic of vaccinations especially the one that left the pock marks on the upper arm. When I was a kid a Jewish store owner in my neighborhood who had a numbered tattoo on his arm told me that my mark on my arm was so I could be identified as an American. This was after he explained to me that the tattoo was to identify him as a jew.
Always kept that with me until I finished high school and learned more about life.

Educate yourself, and then ask yourself this:

Is the admittedly small risk of (insert side effect) truly worth your child being at risk for measles and rubella? Both of these conditions can result in fatal complications with much, much more frequency than the vaccination program.

Blanketgirl - Crohn's disease is not a new condition; generall, what we see is simply an increase in diagnosis and reporting of the symptoms, and the new naming of a group of symptoms that were previously listed elsewhere

MMR & Crohn's Disease - no link

MMR & Crohn's - no link found (pdf file)

More linkage about MMR

As with every vaccine program, there will be side effects; some of these may be catastrophic. But these complications are incredibly rare - your child would face a much higher risk of death and/or serious disability resulting from measles, mumps or rubella, and the potential effect on an unvaccinated community could be devastating.





[edit on 29-6-2005 by Tinkleflower]

Stick to your guns Cosmic Fury.

There are few areas of human endeavor filled with so much disinformation as the field of medicine and most especially innoculations.

School districts only parrot policy propaganda when it comes innoculations being mandatory. You can typically get your child into a school by simply refusing to get your child innoculated (read the fine print, the mandatory part is only just slightly mispresented by administrators ), and if you run into an innoculations are mandatory fascist, can always use the fallback of objecting on religious grounds. You do feel a sudden surge of religious fervor don't you?

It is commonly accepted, that the child enjoys the safeguards of the mothers inherited immune system for the first 18 months.

As with most things medical, the process is driven by $. That's right, good old $.

I have the unique pleasure in life of working with autistic children, and absoutely 99.9% of the information put out by the medical industry with regards to innoculations+autism (and its causes ), is just pure nonsense. It is all about the $.

It has become a industry of huge proportions creating all of these autistic children. Look at the immense infrastructure to support this 'disease'. Special schools, special counsellors/therapists, etc. etc. etc. = $$$

Pre 9/11 there was an emerging body of research pointing to the direct link between autism + innoculations. The class action lawsuit of all lawsuits was forming down Texas way, like a big ole storm supercell. Naturally, the one of the very first things to happen as a result of 9/11 was the blocking of lawsuits against vaccine manufacturers.

If I can be of any assistance Cosmic Fury...

That doesn't really explain the studies performed around the world, by non-US interests, who've come to the same conclusions; not every nation has a health industry so controlled by pharmaceutical companies etc.

A global conspiracy?

Unlikely.

As in all things, you tend to find what you seek.

So too, Tinkleflower, you seem to have found...

'A global conspiracy? Unlikely. '

what you seek...

'Dream always of a peaceful, warless, disarmed world - Robert Muller'.

Seriously... This is NOT the first time we've had a go-around with mercury poisoning and the 'medical establishment' being 'stumped'! (keywords = teething powder)

Enjoy!

:shk: Having encountered these "Vaccinations are the tool of the devil" crowd more times than I care to count in my 12 year pediatric ICU career, allow me to make some observations:

Some of those have fallen victem to fads etc. or what I call the Oprah Syndrome. Oprah said so so it must be true.

Funny how the anti crowd virtualy ignored Byrd's comments on military kids not having a higher rate of autism or anything else despite recieving more than the general public.

If you feel compeled to not protect your children, please do come see a kid who is dying from measels or any other disease that is easily prevented. This is not a scare tactic, but meerly fact. Most of you have nary a clue as to the suffering kids go through because of thier parents actions or in this case in-action.

Objection on religious grounds? Then skip public schools, go to whatever parochial school your "god" is taught at

[edit on 7/3/05 by FredT]

Let's just pray that nobody else has to witness a child dying from measles-induced encephalitis.

Honestly - let's be realistic.

The risks of these diseases to our children is infinitely higher than the risk of vaccination-related problems.

If you'd prefer to take that risk, that's your prerogative. But at least do so with an informed mind, and not one filled with rhetoric, rumour and/or lack of evidence.

Maybe those of us who have witnessed rubella-induced deafness, death from measles and the like have a somewhat different perspective.

It's true that we tend to find what we seek. Denying ignorance is where it's at, isn't it?





[edit on 4-7-2005 by Tinkleflower]

Originally posted by Tinkleflower
Honestly - let's be realistic.

The risks of these diseases to our children is infinitely higher than the risk of vaccination-related problems.

If you'd prefer to take that risk, that's your prerogative. But at least do so with an informed mind, and not one filled with rhetoric, rumour and/or lack of evidence.
[edit on 4-7-2005 by Tinkleflower]

Any time you introduce any sort of medication (even just something like tylenol) there are going to be people whose bodies reject it. It will have side effects, it will make people sick and people will die.

This is also true with a disease, but I don't see how it helps to deny that there are going to be people for whom these medications (vaccinations) just aren't going to work out.

How do you deny the thousands of vocal parents whose children get violently ill after each round of shots - are told by their pediatricians it can't be the vaccines and then they develop some life long disability from the last vaccine that pushed their body over the top?

Doesn't it seem a bit strange to you that even these obvious cases are denied? If there weren't some large scale problem, don't you think these things would be acknowledged?

I realize that you can site 3 pages that reference the same study that concludes that it can't conclude anything, but that doesn't tell us much.

My daughter's first two vaccines made her extremely ill, I am afraid of what would have happened if I had continued to put those chemicals into her body while she was so young.

I worked in the vaccine industry for a number of years, having first hand experience with manufacturing vaccines for: Influenza, Pneumococcus, Tetanus, Diptheria, Meningitis, MMR, and even Small Pox.

I do not have proof to show you, because I obviously no longer have access to that company, nor do could I post trade secret documents If I did. I can tell you that Aventis Pasteur (now Sanofe Pasteur) tested Thimerisol extensively, for years, and found no evidence of increased risks of autism. Further, they reacted to public backlash and began designing "preservative free" vaccinations. These vaccines are intended for children, and contain NO THIMERISOL. Because they are the largest manufacturer of vaccines, it is very likely you will get a no-thimersol formulation for the most common vaccines.

I myself have had quite a few vaccines while working there. The reasons for your children having "illnesses" after having the vaccines is because your body percieves a threat and attacks it. That's how a vaccine works, after all, it tricks your body into making a ton of anti-bodies for an infection it does not have. This naturally brings about fever, a weapon your body uses against invasion, and severly taps your energy reserves.

The end result? You feel sick, but you don't die. Now you are ready to fight that battle. Imagine an invading army that makes a beach head, and has a child every 24 hours that matures to fighting age right away. That is what you war against when you get sick. If you have a standing army of millions waiting for the small beach head, then you are ahead of the game.

By not taking a vaccination, you are putting a loaded gun to your child's head, because that invasion will succeed. That's why we have this method of immunization. Not only are you giving the child increased risks, but you are giving that microbe a second chance at killing some one else's kid.

Now, some vaccines are rougher on the body than others, specifically older ones, like YF Vax, used by the millitary for Yellow Fever (Japanese Ensephalitis, unsure of spelling). Meninge was rather painful, because of where it was shot, and that muscle was sore for a week.

Imagine an infant that has weeklong pain in the muscle, that's why they get antsy and upset. I saw this reaction with my own daughter when she was vaccinated.

Pneumo was also very unpleasant, it made me weak and feverish for three days, but in the end I was glad I wasn't in a hospital on a resperator because I DIDN'T take it.

It further drains their reserves, and yes, it does make them more vunerable to disease while the body fights off the false invasion. There is a risk of allergic reaction to the thimerisol, one of my Neices was permanently brain damaged by it. But quite frankly, that's a very, VERY, unlikely scenario. (On the order of 1 in every 100,000 children may have an adverse reaction due to allergy, and not all of them will suffer any kind of permanent harm.)

Long story short, sometimes very freak accidents happen with children eating grapes, or taking penacillin (sp?), or crossing the street. The same vunerability of life can be found with vaccination.

However, be aware that the alternative is far, far worse.

once i hit high school, i began to refuse them, and actually had to pay for a form from city hall to make it "legit", ridiculous.... i don't believe in them, niether does my dad, who lost a son in his previous marriage because of these "shots". sure the risks are "low", but they are there.

def.

Originally posted by Cucumba
By not taking a vaccination, you are putting a loaded gun to your child's head, because that invasion will succeed. That's why we have this method of immunization. Not only are you giving the child increased risks, but you are giving that microbe a second chance at killing some one else's kid.

But the routine vaccination disease don't kill most people who get them, they can be uncomfortable but do you much more good as the disease than the shot.

It has gotten to the point where it is way over the top. Have you looked at the vaccine lists recently?
My daughter is required to get a vaccine for chicken pox.
Chicken pox?!?

This is a normal childhood disease. It is a million times safer to get the disease as a kid, as it provides a lifetime immunity to chicken pox and shingles, which the vaccine doesn't. The vaccine lasts until the kid is about 15. (they get it at 5) So they loose immunity just in time to get the shingles, which does kill people.

If you ask a pediatrician now, they will make chicken pox sound like the plague... it is a terribly deadly disease and a severe risk to let your children come down with it.
Don't you think some of the other vaccines came out with the same background? Once you get the vaccines, you need them for life because the risk is a million times worse if you catch these things as an adult! In that way, there is tons of money to be made off of those stupid $100/piece things.

There was no vaccination for measles when I was born. In 1955 at the age of 2, I nearly died from this "normal childhood disease." I grew up with people who suffered from polio. When the vaccine came out in the 60s you can bet that my mom had me in line to get this.

Yes, some children do have bad reactions to childhood immunizations. But far more would suffer irrevesable damage or death to the actual disease. I suffer from a major hearing loss due to my disease. Immunization can be delayed to a later date. But that is a decision for the parents to make.

Originally posted by blanketgirl
But the routine vaccination disease don't kill most people who get them, they can be uncomfortable but do you much more good as the disease than the shot.

It has gotten to the point where it is way over the top. Have you looked at the vaccine lists recently?
My daughter is required to get a vaccine for chicken pox.
Chicken pox?!?

This is a normal childhood disease. It is a million times safer to get the disease as a kid, as it provides a lifetime immunity to chicken pox and shingles, which the vaccine doesn't. The vaccine lasts until the kid is about 15. (they get it at 5) So they loose immunity just in time to get the shingles, which does kill people.

If you ask a pediatrician now, they will make chicken pox sound like the plague... it is a terribly deadly disease and a severe risk to let your children come down with it.
Don't you think some of the other vaccines came out with the same background? Once you get the vaccines, you need them for life because the risk is a million times worse if you catch these things as an adult! In that way, there is tons of money to be made off of those stupid $100/piece things.

I'm not talking about Chicken Pox, though it can be quite dangerous. Don't forget, if you get the shingles instead of the pox first, you will have wished you had the vaccine.

I'm referring to the big dangers, like MMR, or Polio.

This whole discussion is a tragic by-product of the simple fact that these work. The fact that a few parents can get away with it by and large is because the majority of 10 are vaccinated so it limits the spread of these diseases. Diseases that routinely killed children are now almost unheard of.

In regards to the poster who talked about the denial of those cases I'm not really sure what denial you are talking about. Before your child is given these shots, you have to give consent at which time the risks are discussed. I know I have a 2.5 year old.

Originally posted by Cucumba
I'm not talking about Chicken Pox, though it can be quite dangerous. Don't forget, if you get the shingles instead of the pox first, you will have wished you had the vaccine.

With chicken pox specifically, most people don't realize the vaccine is only effective into the teen years, at which point you are at risk for shingles, and the number of people who will miss there boosters (needed every 10 years) scares me for the children of the future, they would all be immune if we just let them get chicken pox instead.


Fred T- they have you sign a disclosure of course before the first one (I've only ever seen one of these), but they don't tell you the real dangers. I have had three different pediatricians talk to me about vaccines, and all three times I was told that sometimes the child will be sore, fussy and might get a mild feaver.
I don't know what doctors you go to, but I don't believe most of them tell you that your child could die, convulse or have permanent side effects.