Originally posted by madjamjar
OK, My point of view.

Who's to say that Adam and Eve werent actually humanoid, but rather single celled organisms that met and combined and thus created evoloution?

God(and i personally dont believe or disbelieve in Him) could quite easily have created the earth, then populated it with single celled creations with the abilities to combine and evolve.

Seems a lot more likely and can almost fit into the "Adam and Eve" story. It also would get rid of the "genetic mutations" problem and "incest"

Well thats my bacon roll and a packet of crisps worth.

there's always someone. as soon as it gets so unrational and so unlogical about something the bible says (adam and eve), people start to post crazy ideas. i've seen this before in a noah's ark thread. it got to the point that chrisitans couldn't argue without sounding retarded, then someone comes along and says...'what if noah's ark was a spaceship'.

you say what if adam and eve were two single cell organisms, but why try to explain what 'adam and eve' are. the bible clearly states they were two people, like you and i today. if you can't interpret that literally without it being completly wrong then thats that.

its exactly the same with the '6 day' creation. even though it says 6 days! and it cleary states there is sunrise and sunset, day and night during these 6 days, yet some people say these could have been god days. hence a million or more years per day. this is so they can try and fit it in to an old earth rather than the 10,000 year old earth the bible literally intends us to believe.

its all a matter of faithfulness belief. Thats because you can ever have solid proof of Adam and Eves existance other than the Bible. To some, Christians, this is all the proof they need. To others its not. it all comes down to trying to proove something to someone that isnt telling you what kind of proof they want.

Ok, if your a christian and don't believe in the Adam and Eve story (eg: just a myth, a legend, story, etc...) Than you can't possibly believe in the rest of the bible. If Adam and Eve were not true, than they did not sin, which has no reason for Christ to come. So, if you don't believe in Adam and Eve, you don't believe in any of the bible either.

Also, Cain was the first male of the family. There were probably other daughters of Eve at that time. They probably found Cain on his way to Nod. It was either that or a Nephilim (demons of the sort) that married him.

The Bible, however, (well, Gen2, but not Gen1 - Gen1 says something completely different) does say that a human just spawned another one (Adam's rib). I find that to be as ridiculous as you do- zipdot

Well, when you have a higher power in it, than it is easier to explain. According to the bible, God can do anything. It gets ridiculous when that happens when nothing did it.

No, it doesn't, in my opinion, and I am open to competing theories, but I'm not open to the idea that an entity "spoke" the universe into existence.- zipdot

Again, you just can't believe that something higher and more powerful than humans (not aliens) is out there. I mean, it's better than believing in the big bang theory which has no evidence, and that it just went EXPLODE!
And everything came into existence. If you don't believe my theory, yours is even more ridicoulous than mine! Besides, the big bang theory is just an excuse for atheists to explain everything came from nothing.

There is plenty of evidence to back up scientific claims and scientific theories about the history of life. - zipdot

I'm not saying you don't have evidence, you just don't have any more than I do. We all have the same evidence, its just how we fit the evidence into our point of view. I believe that science and the bible go hand in hand. I mean, If God exists (he does), than he created science. My evidence is everything runs in smooth fashion. Theres the circle of life, predator- prey relationships, the earth has an ozone layer, which protects us from the sun, etc...

Whats better, believing that things just popped into existence by mere chance, or that a loving powerful being created us? Just a question.

5aret

Originally posted by soapydodger
its all a matter of faithfulness belief. Thats because you can ever have solid proof of Adam and Eves existance other than the Bible. To some, Christians, this is all the proof they need. To others its not. it all comes down to trying to proove something to someone that isnt telling you what kind of proof they want.

Its is not a matter of faithfulness belief. It all depends on what you accept as evidence. Religion is something you cannot nessacerally "prove" or "disprove." You get you're point of view from how you are raised (eg: a christian family, agnostic family, etc...), what you're rational is, and what you have been exposed to. (eg. religous television all your life, sunday school, Atheistic television, etc...) Thats why it's so hard to try to convince people to your beliefs. They have been raised one way all their life. My evidence that God exists is that there cannot be design without a designer. Thats my theory. You may have another belief, and I respect that. You can't nessacarilly "prove" or "disprove" religous theories.

Some people won't accept that God exists because he is beyond our understanding, and thats not logical. Well, think of this:

A cat does not have the intelligence to understand how we create a house, it thinks it is impossible. Well, it cannot come to the conclusion that we did not create it, because we did. But a cat can still think that in it's mind. It's just the same thing with God. This is just an anology. Don't take it literally. Think about it. It makes sense.

I hope this brings out some clarity. You see, deny ingnorince does not mean fight and debate to see who is correct, but to go out of the box and hear other people's beliefs, and respect them and their beliefs. I believe in some things, you believe in others. That does not mean we should fight over who has enough evidence, whos right, etc.. because we just simply will not get to whos right at all. This is because we simply cannot argue over our beliefs. This is not about evidence, this is about hearing other peoples theories and respecting them, and trying to see where they come from. I know the atheistic beliefs and their reasons, and I respect that. It is hard to understand the bible when you have not been raised with it.

This does not mean we should not back up our reasons and theories with some evidence, so we don't start creating myths and legends, and this does not mean that we should not challenge other people's beliefs. I just don't like people every time I say one of my theories to try to disprove it and dismantle it at every moment possible. Thats not deny ignorence, thats deny everyones beliefs other than your own. I hope I have not offended anyone in this post, and again, this is just my opinion.

I only have one more thing to say, and that is:

Deny Ignorence

5aret

people always say there is a huge lack of evidence for evolution, hence they assume this proves the creationist theory. however, you don't need to be a scientist or have an IQ of 170 to understand or see evolution is a huge factor of life. whether its the fact that we share a common ancestor with apes, or how we have domesticated the wolf and thus have played god and created new species. you really have to deny a great deal of evidence and as it would seem prety straight forward and obvious concepts that point towards evolution.

to accept evolution you have to accept the world is of a great age, and already that contridicts the bible if interpreted literally. another thing that would contridict gods creation is the fact that species die out, and new ones come in to existence. the animals etc that live today weren't around 1 million years ago. certain species similar were, like crocodiles and sharks, of which are some of the oldest species still around. its hard for some people to comprehend that the world is of a great age, as even just one million years is almost impossible concept for the mind to grasp, as our life span is a mere 70ish years. darwin explained this with a roll of paper 87 feet long to represent one million years. from the point at which darwin published his natural selection theory, just 2 inches was the birth of christ and 6 or 7 inches would be from the start of mankind...the rest of the 86+ feet is so endless and some people find that hard to grasp, hence why we have religion. it puts the mind at ease because we've become so evolved that we understand death and need that comfort of heaven or an afterlife. however, if you want to face facts, humans are no different to any other living creature. we live, we die. why do we think we're so different or special that we're going to heaven or an afterlife...

Originally posted by shaunybaby
whether its the fact that we share a common ancestor with apes, or how we have domesticated the wolf and thus have played god and created new species.

Where has it been proven that we came from apes?
What new species have we created?
Thanks

It is absurd to beleive everything in the bible! The bible isn't there to be believed! This is where you can seperate analysists from idiots. The bible is a set of STORIES to be interpreted and acted out in everyday life. Messages within the STORIES help us become better people. I do believe in a God and I'm sure he is annoyed that so many people have taken the bible literally. I believe in a Jeses but not the Jesus who walks on water or feeds ten thousand with 2 loaves. The Jesus I believe in was a really kind man who did a ton of charity work at the time. His belivers then expressed his work through stories, each with it's particular message. E.g when Jesus fed like ten thousand with hardly anything, he didn't really do that, the message is that if we all share our possesions and commodities such as food, noone has to go hungry.

I hope Ive made myself clear. Interpretting the bible literally only breeds fanatics and war.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
you can see, its so obvious we have created new species of dog, because most of the species would not survive in the wild. like the chihuahua and many others, they have been crafted by the hand of humans, and domesticated for our own needs. or perhaps when you asked 'what new species have we created'? you were actually saying, that god had created all these species of dog, which is so wrong, you could not be more wrong.

[edit on 3-7-2005 by shaunybaby]

There are many different looking dogs. Different sizes, shapes and colors, yet they are still all dogs. They are of the canine species, kind, sort.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
if you want to see signs of evolution, lets take some races. for example, the masai from africa, eskimos, the chinese, japanese and the stereotypical european white man. all these races have changed to become suited to their surroundings for one reason or another. they may all be human, yet look absolutly completly different from one another. the masai average height is about 6'2''. the japanese height would be about 5'8'' or smaller. the masai are black, most native europeans are white. eskimos have learnt to live on a mostly raw fish diet. its all about survival depending on your environment. that is the reason for such changes and differences between these races.

You are talking about variations in mankind. From the Biblical perspective All are descended from Adam and Eve, and after the flood all are descended from the 8 people saved on the ark. The genetic material for these variations was in these people and over the years and especially when God seperated mankind at the Tower of Babel these variations caused the races.

When I speak of evolution I am talking about something turning into and becoming something else(and I'm not talking about a caterpillar becoming a butterfly). That doesn't happen. There are plenty of different looking people in all shapes and sizes and skin colors, but they are all still humans.

Originally posted by Uk_United
It is absurd to beleive everything in the bible! The bible isn't there to be believed! This is where you can seperate analysists from idiots. Messages within the STORIES help us become better people.

You don't believe the Bible is true, and have no problem calling some people idiots. I believe the Bible is true and do not callothers names. Seems to mean by your words in that post you have made a clear statement.

If you don't believe the Bible you are allowed to put others down and make them feel bad while exalting yourself at the same time.

It's the ones who do believe the Bible is true that find the deeper meanings in what it says. And we take to heart what God tells us in it. We learn to love others instead of insulting them.

i didn't say the difference between different races meant we were all a different species. i was merely pointing out variation. natural variation. how humans have changed to fit their surroundings. because at one point in time we would have been one set species that we evolved from. yet we have many many races of completly different features. this is factual evidence that you don't need to be a scientist to see with your own eyes how mankind has changed and will continue to change. darwins theory of natural selection, survival of the fittest...read up on it. the human race is a weak species. in the wild only the strong mate, and survive, yet with the human race everyone and anyone is aloud to have sex and thus weaken the human race. why do you think people are lactose intolerant?...its because cows have a only been domesticated for a few thousand years. however, some of our bodies have evolved to digest milk. that's maybe the most obvious evidence for evolution. if there was no evolution then we would all be unable to digest milk.

Originally posted by Uk_United
It is absurd to beleive everything in the bible! The bible isn't there to be believed! This is where you can seperate analysists from idiots. The bible is a set of STORIES to be interpreted and acted out in everyday life. Messages within the STORIES help us become better people. I do believe in a God and I'm sure he is annoyed that so many people have taken the bible literally. I believe in a Jeses but not the Jesus who walks on water or feeds ten thousand with 2 loaves. The Jesus I believe in was a really kind man who did a ton of charity work at the time. His belivers then expressed his work through stories, each with it's particular message. E.g when Jesus fed like ten thousand with hardly anything, he didn't really do that, the message is that if we all share our possesions and commodities such as food, noone has to go hungry.

I hope Ive made myself clear. Interpretting the bible literally only breeds fanatics and war.

I athiest but I know a lot of people that take the Bible as a history book. Who's to say they are wrong? You cant proove a negative. You can only supply evidence on the contrary.

if there was some sort of world wide catastrophe and most knowlegde and literacy was lost including all copies of the bible and this information wasn't passed down generation to generation anymore. do you think after a few thousand years, the decendents of the original survivers would create new religions, or come up with the concept of god again?

there is no messiah at the moment. there is no jesus, the son of god who has been concieved by a virgin in the 2st century. there aren't many people going around healing the blind, being ressurected and ascending to heaven at the moment. hence, no one is creating any new religions at the moment. they were all created during a time, of which many cannot begin to understand as we live so differently.

we may not be able to prove the creationist theory or prove the bible completly wrong. we may not be able to prove evolution completly or the big bang theory. however, i think one can be proved using common sense...evolution. religions were created when there was no science, no evolution, the world was young, dinosaurs weren't discovered and the world was flat. in a time when there's nothing else to believe in apart from god, then obviously you have to believe god. fortunatly we've had some genius' amung this human race, who have managed to also come up with ideas about creation. surely it is the same with the few people that wrote genesis in their time about creation, with their own ideas, as it is with darwin writing about natural selection in more our time. the only difference is that darwin's idea is new, its a new belief, its a new concept and most importantly it was 2nd. genesis in a way set a foundation for humans and for some it's hard to break that. before darwin 99.9% believed in some sort of god, the other 0.01% were burnt at the stake for being a witch. people thought witches were made of wood, hence why they burn and this was a popular belief about one thousand years ago. people also thought the world was flat and this wasn't accepted as false until about 500-600 years ago. people make mistakes. the writers of genesis i think have made the mistake. darwin has corrected this, and shown how we really came about, yet this belief needs time. christianity had a 1600 year head start. darwin's book doesn't have prophecies or miracles to try and persuade you his ideas are true, it doesn't need to knock on your door and recruit you, its there to be read by people who want to open up to the new religion. darwinism.

God has said that there was going to be a "great deception" in the book of revalation. I think that great deception is darwism. I do believe in Evolution, to an extant.

Here is my theory:

I believe that there is enough evidence to assume that animals change over time. I do not believe that humans came from chimpanzees. I believe that animals do adapt to their surroundings. I think animals (including humans) have changed over time to survive in that type of enviroment. People believe that just because that evolution might be true, they say that there cannot be a God. I don't think so. I think that animals have changed a little bit, but not to the extent that everything came from one common ancestor. I am not sure to whever the Earth is 6000 years old or 6 billion years old. I believe humans have existed for almost the same time the Earth was created. If the old earth theory is correct, I think humans have been here a lot longer than most people think. Possibly 3 billion years old. I think the dinosaurs might have been with humans and went upon the ark.

Originally posted by 5aret
God has said that there was going to be a "great deception" in the book of revalation. I think that great deception is darwism. I do believe in Evolution, to an extant.

Here is my theory:

I believe that there is enough evidence to assume that animals change over time. I do not believe that humans came from chimpanzees. I believe that animals do adapt to their surroundings. I think animals (including humans) have changed over time to survive in that type of enviroment. People believe that just because that evolution might be true, they say that there cannot be a God. I don't think so. I think that animals have changed a little bit, but not to the extent that everything came from one common ancestor. I am not sure to whever the Earth is 6000 years old or 6 billion years old. I believe humans have existed for almost the same time the Earth was created. If the old earth theory is correct, I think humans have been here a lot longer than most people think. Possibly 3 billion years old. I think the dinosaurs might have been with humans and went upon the ark.

well even when the bible was written there were great deceptions. about 10, maybe 20 or more. every other religion should be a great deception shouldn't it? if darwin is a great deception then so are all the other religions. this being written in the bible in no way proves that its some sort of prophecy that someday there would be a great deception, because when that was written there already were other religions or 'deceptions'.

as for evolution being set in motion by god. i think that's just a lame attempt for christians who obviously know evolution is a process, yet don't want to fully commit to science. hence, we have this new age of christians who adopt the evolution concept and say that their god put evolution in motion.

i think there is so much evidence against there being an actual literal noah's ark, where all animals were carried on to a boat for 40 days and 40 nights. the implications surrounding this concept is absurd. o.k so perhaps in other literature there are flood accounts, even though i haven't read any, yet i am told there are. most civilisations existed on flood plains next to trade routes (rivers), floods were common, and were always attributed to gods, and punishment from the gods, the same as drought, bad harvest etc.

i don't think humans have been around for 3 billion years. neither do i think that dinosaurs and humans lived in coexistence with each other. getting normal animals on a boat would have been impossible enough without the added pressure of getting dinosaurs on there. crocodiles that were 15 metres in length. carnivors the size of double decker buses...what's the point in even argueing this...its absolutly absurd. common sense alone should tell you it is.

well, thats an easy prophecy to make, like there will be a big catastrophy.
Many people will interpret it in different ways. couldn't christianity be a great deception, after all the author of revelations was NOT christian.
(BTW i was brought up in a christian family)

I'd like to ask that you all observe proper board ettiquette in discussions please. Differing ideas and theories are no reason to refer to someone as an idiot. You're free to think it but we'd like this forum to exclude any personal attacks.

Thanks.

I just dont understand how you say "I Believe in a higher power and all" but you dont believe that man can understand what God is trying to show them in a vision? what kind of bull are you trying to pull. God speaks to each and everyone of us in different ways....... the bible is "written" by man but the words of GOD HIMSELF!!!! People today just dont understand how the bible is to be percieved but I will tell you one thing it is WRONG to mock the WORD OF GOD if you dont know what you are talking about. So why dont you SIT DOWN and READ IT before you start making assumptions. another thinig it says in the bible that ADAM AND EVE were the first humans on Earth. It says that God made man from the dirt and that he made woman from mans rib. read the bible and the come back and try to have a foot to stand on before making ASSUMPTIONS!

Originally posted by Uk_United
It is absurd to beleive everything in the bible! The bible isn't there to be believed! This is where you can seperate analysists from idiots. The bible is a set of STORIES to be interpreted and acted out in everyday life. Messages within the STORIES help us become better people. I do believe in a God and I'm sure he is annoyed that so many people have taken the bible literally. I believe in a Jeses but not the Jesus who walks on water or feeds ten thousand with 2 loaves. The Jesus I believe in was a really kind man who did a ton of charity work at the time. His belivers then expressed his work through stories, each with it's particular message. E.g when Jesus fed like ten thousand with hardly anything, he didn't really do that, the message is that if we all share our possesions and commodities such as food, noone has to go hungry.

I hope Ive made myself clear. Interpretting the bible literally only breeds fanatics and war.

How can you sit there and say that interpretting the bible literally only breeds fanatics and war? that is absurd. The bible doesnt breed that, WE as SINNERS and people who dont understand or have enough compassion to accept us for who we are or what religious beliefs we have are what BREED fanatics and war. The bible does have stories and each one is interpreted in different ways yes..... but they are not just stories, the are discussions between the men and women of that time and God and the men and women of now and God. God knows everything and sees everything and for you to sit there and say that people who believe in the bible are idiots is uncalled for and rude. i think that you are scared of believing in something you cant see or touch or hear like you can the person sitting next to you. Jesus was not just a man who "walked on water and fed 10's of thousands of people with 2 loaves of bread and some fish" Jesus is and will always be the SON OF GOD and an extravagant man who instead of being selfish and self righteous was compassionate and self giving. He could have been like you and called people who were living in sin "idiots" but he didnt because he knew that God saw what was truly inside of each and every human being on earth and showed them compassion just as God showed us compassion by sending his only Son to die for us and wash away our sins so that we may be with HIM in heaven with spotless white garments. So as I write this I apologize to you for "insulting" you in anyways but also I ask you to apologize to others including myself that you have insulted with your foolishness.