New Forum For The Debate of Origins and Creationism

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posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 09:17 AM
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conspiracy
n 1: a secret agreement between two or more people to perform an unlawful act [syn: confederacy] 2: a plot to carry out some harmful or illegal act (especially a political plot) [syn: cabal] 3: a group of conspirators banded together to achieve some harmful or illegal purpose[syn: confederacy]
Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University


The United States is singularly unique in experiencing the phenomenon of "creationism" and/or "intelligent design" advocates seeking to eliminate the teaching of evolution science in favor of non-scientific philosophy.

Over the past year, with the evangelically charged U.S. election, the creationism movement has gained new momentum along with an increase in posts here on ATS. From a purely objective standpoint, the issue of an organized group seeking to diminish or replace a widely accepted scientific topic with one of pure philosophy and faith fits the description of a "conspiracy".

Just as we've added the "Peak Oil" forum for the increased topics related to diminishing oil reserves and increased demand, we've now added a new forum dedicated to the discussion of the origins debate, as well as the discussion of other alternative ancient origin stories.




posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 09:23 AM
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This is an awesome idea. Can't wait to read the threads once the forum gets going



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 09:59 AM
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I am quite excited about this forum, particularly because Skeptic is acknowledging that the replacement of scientific discoveries with "faith-based" tales is indeed a conspiracy.

I have several friends from other forums I will try to invite over here.

Zip



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 10:05 AM
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Sounds great!


Can't wait!

In favour of CREATE!

IX
helen



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 10:08 AM
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I keep wondering why the creationist folks are so hung up on the evolution aspect (or lack of such). The Universe is so incredibly rich in all kinds of phenomena, which really beg a question about how they ever came to be. Even the structures of the matter disctribution detected in large scale sky surveys.

My theory is that most of these people don't know much about science in general... While the evolution is on the surface because well, animals are easy to observe.



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 10:11 AM
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Having taken part in discussions on this topic before on message boards, I am a little afraid of this one.

I hope we can keep the discussion to the area's in how "intelligent design" (AKA idiotic theory IMHO) activists are trying to force it into schools. Because when the debate becomes science Vs. religion the debate becomes almost pointless, those that believe in "intelligent design" (which let's face it is just fake science to prove creationism) will not take any evidence that contradicts their belief.

And the whole debate over evolution is it a theory or a fact is mind numbing. The fact that these people do not understand what a scientific theory is and presume that the use of the world "theory" means it is not a fact is painfull to debate. Gravity is a "theory" that is inforced by imperical evidence and therfore considered a "fact", but someone could just as easily argue that it's gods love that keeps things on the ground and that newtons laws are just "theories".

Evolution is a fact, Dawins explanation of how it works is a theory. Personally I think that Darwin was wrong on a few things, but evolution is as much of a fact as anything can be in this subjective reality.

There you go, I think I just successfully started this debate off.



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 10:23 AM
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Does this forum also allow he debate of religion vs evolution/science as well or is that still in faith and spirituality



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 10:28 AM
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Originally posted by Shenroon
Does this forum also allow he debate of religion vs evolution/science as well or is that still in faith and spirituality


This forum is exactly where that should go.



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 10:39 AM
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O.K thanks here are some threads for moderators to move here then-

Below Top Secret 2.0 » Faith, Spirituality & Theology » Debunking religion (mainly Christiantiy)
Below Top Secret 2.0 » Faith, Spirituality & Theology » What is true or false in the bible
Below Top Secret 2.0 » Faith, Spirituality & Theology » Who do you believe in god or aliens or just evolution
This might be better here or in FAith and spirituality and there might be othere threads to be moved here apart from these but i guess its a start



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by parabolee
And the whole debate over evolution is it a theory or a fact is mind numbing. The fact that these people do not understand what a scientific theory is and presume that the use of the world "theory" means it is not a fact is painfull to debate. Gravity is a "theory" that is inforced by imperical evidence and therfore considered a "fact", but someone could just as easily argue that it's gods love that keeps things on the ground and that newtons laws are just "theories".


Hopefully we will be able to get a large amount of "basics" (definition of a theory, what comprises the scientific method, etc.,) out in the open in sticky threads. For every new "Can evolution be proven?" thread, there are 6+ pages of people (not saying who
) ignoring fundamental definitions, observations, and requirements.

Zip



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 07:12 PM
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Sounds like the ATS adminstration has already made up their minds about the subject. So, now that Creationism and by a falsely assumed-association Intelligent Design have become ATS-sanctioned conspiracy, what is their left to discuss?

I guess we are discouraged from discussing how Intelligent Design may not be a conspiracy. In my opinion, the conspiracy is the movement to debase the important additions that can be derived from Intelligent Design.

Tell me ATS, what else SHOULD I believe.

Edit:
Your statement:

The United States is singularly unique in experiencing the phenomenon of "creationism" and/or "intelligent design" advocates seeking to eliminate the teaching of evolution science in favor of non-scientific philosophy.


This is pure bull#. I like how first of all, you attempt to lump diverse theories under one roof, and then attempt to portray it as an Us versus Them mentality.

[edit on 28-6-2005 by Jamuhn]



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 07:22 PM
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Well, that's kind of how it is. Supporters of science aren't ganging up to ban evolutionary science from being taught in schools... It's "creationists" AND / OR "intelligent design" supporters. Truly, though, in my opinion, evolution is a damn smart way of doing things. Thumbs up, universe!


Anyway, what makes you think you're being discouraged from speaking about anything? This forum wasn't made to encourage atheistic evangelism.

Zip



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 07:24 PM
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Originally posted by Jamuhn
Sounds like the ATS adminstration has already made up their minds about the subject.

Indeed. What else could we conclude about an organized effort to either replace science with philosophy, or teach a segment of philosophy as science?



So, now that Creationism and by a falsely assumed-association Intelligent Design

Only so far as their shared effort to do what was mentioned above.



I guess we are discouraged from discussing how Intelligent Design may not be a conspiracy.

The pure concept of some higher intelligence directing the events of the development of life on this planet is certainly not a conspiracy. But the organized efforts to replace the teaching of accepted science with this philosophy is a conspiracy by definition.



Tell me ATS, what else SHOULD I believe.

Believe in beliefs. Science is not a belief.



I like how first of all, you attempt to lump diverse theories under one roof, and then attempt to portray it as an Us versus Them mentality.

The "us versus them" is unique to the evangelically charged United States, and the efforts of first "creationists" and "intelligent design" advocates to introduce philosophy as science. Unless, you take a peak in private Catholic schools... these kids tend to have evolution nailed... have you talked to them?



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 07:34 PM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Indeed. What else could we conclude about an organized effort to either replace science with philosophy, or teach a segment of philosophy as science?

I'd have no problem if you were exclusive to Creationism. But, from what I have researched about Intelligent Design, it is largely based on numerical concepts and empirical evidence, and is closely related to evolutionary theory. That is not a philosophy.



Only so far as their shared effort to do what was mentioned above.

Wrong again.


But the organized efforts to replace the teaching of accepted science with this philosophy is a conspiracy by definition.

Once again, I would have no problem if you were more specific. But, the Intelligent Design movement is not trying to replace Evolutionary Theory. This is blatantly wrong as they are definitely not trying to do this.

---------------------------------
Intelligent Design Network
---------------------------------


Believe in beliefs. Science is not a belief.

The belief you are promoting is that intelligent designers want to replace evolutionary theory, and represent a conspiracy to undermine science.


The "us versus them" is unique to the evangelically charged United States, and the efforts of first "creationists" and "intelligent design" advocates to introduce philosophy as science.

Intelligent Design again....wrong! Are you admitting to being an evangelical then?

[edit on 28-6-2005 by Jamuhn]



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 07:45 PM
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Originally posted by Jamuhn
I'd have no problem if you were exclusive to Creationism. But, from what I have researched about Intelligent Design, it is largely based on numerical concepts and empirical evidence, and is closely related to evolutionary theory. That is not a philosophy.

---------------------------------
Intelligent Design Network
---------------------------------


Yes, you just linked to the conspiracy. That's perfect. Thanks.



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 07:49 PM
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Haha, well, anyways, evolution theory does not talk about "why". That's a different study, class, mountain in Tibet. Evolutionary theory does not need a "why". Evolutionary theory is all about "how."

Don't get me wrong, the theory answers a lot of "why" questions, but it doesn't contend anything philosophically, as opposed to Creationtelligentignerists - THERE, I LUMPED THEM!

Zip



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 11:34 PM
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This was a good idea..





posted on Jun, 29 2005 @ 12:14 AM
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Creationtelligentignerists ? That's a hell of a word you created there Zip.



posted on Jun, 30 2005 @ 01:18 PM
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i, personally, dont see any conflict between evolutiuon and intelligent design.

humour me for an istant. an intelligence far far superior than ours could possibly seed this planet with the intention of creating intelligent life. now jus the fact that they are of much higher intellectual capabilities they could easily calulate the possible outcomes. then they jus sit back and let nature (eolution) take its course.

i mean its completely plausible. as to what reason for creating life. beats me. hell if i knew i would as intelligent as them wouldnt i



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 07:35 AM
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NCSE "Project Steve"

Excellent resource on these topics.





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