When will 'Above Top Secret' planes be made public?

It seems most of us are sure of the existence of the new secret planes out there (Aurora, etc) but when do you think everyone else will be? The F-117, B-2 and (although it wasn;t particularaly secret) the F-22 were all ushered in relatively quickly (granted the testbed programmes might wel have gone on for a while).

Anyhow just when do you think these planes will be made public and when will they see action (have they already been used over Iraq or Korea for instance (Would they if we invaded Iran or Korea tomorrow?)

Also what do you think the next black plane to become public will be? What are Skunkworks and the like working on right now?

Thanks guys

[edit on 28-6-2005 by John bull 1]

The U.S. aerospace firms do take their time in finally reveiling their latest projects.

One of the most recent "outings" was Boeing's Bird of Prey technology demonstrator displaying breakthrough low-observable technologies and revolutionized aircraft design. This was unveiled October 18, 2002.

www.boeing.com...







Something I always stand by when discussing why these secret programs, and Boeing themselves say in the press release above, [The Bird of Prey] was revealed because the technologies and capabilities developed have become industry standards, and it is no longer necessary to conceal the aircraft's existence.

So far all those aircraft conspiracists, until we see hypersonic aicraft and anti-gravitic "Back To The Future II" style hovering cars in our everyday existence, expect Area 51's goodies to remain classified.

[edit on 28-6-2005 by SimonGray]

excellent post thats the first time i have seen them pictures

yeah great pics, thanks

Originally posted by SimonGray
The U.S. aerospace firms do take their time in finally reveiling their latest projects.

Black aircraft projects are also yanked out of the closet for political reasons as well. Lyndon Johnson revealed the existence of the SR-71 (but not the A-12) and Carter also released information about the F-117 to counter claims he was soft on defence.

The Bird of Prey has one of the smallest radar cross sections of any "stealth" aircraft ever built - it's RCS is supposed to be exponentially smaller than that of the B-2 or F-117.

The Bird of Prey was also a technology demonstrator for the X-45 UCAV program - what this potentially means is the X-45 UCAV is going to be one incredibly stealthy aircraft.

Also, regarding the original question on this thread; Even though the Bird of Prey was made public during the Bush administration, I would not look for any other revelations of advanced technology flyers during this administration as the are very secretive, and probably have less to gain politically by revealing high dollar military tech as they did right after 911 when the country was looking for a boost in morale and the assurance that the military was advanced enough to take on the task of the war on terror.

I would look for more revelations from the next administration - especially if it's a democrat admin. since they are generally seen as being weaker on defense and they would want to squelch such claims, possibly by revealing a secret aircraft.

Edited for my crappy spelling:

[edit on 6/29/2005 by bios]

Originally posted by FredT
Black aircraft projects are also yanked out of the closet for political reasons as well.

How right you are, Fred! The Same is true of the once Top Secret B-2 Spirit. These planes were revealed because of politics. A lot of things came out during the 8 years Bill Clinton was the president, because he still had some of the "Hippy Mentality" in him. It was his way of trying to say "The Cold War is gone, it's time to let go of the old secrets!"

Right now, we are at war! Until the War is over, I don't see even a slight chance of anything new coming out of the shadows. Noone EVER shows their "Ace in the Hole" when they are playing defense, unless they are ready to play it. It's more likely that they might choose to use one of these "secret weapons" on a covert mission where they can deny it.

Originally posted by SimonGray
The U.S. aerospace firms do take their time in finally reveiling their latest projects.

Black Project aren't reveiled by contractors. Only the US Department of Defense has the legal authority to decide when a Black Project can be made public. Aircraft like the B-2, F-117, and Bird of Prey, coudn't be discussed until the Pentagon gave the contractor written premission.

Is it me, or do those pics look waaaay fake? Especially the first one. I wonder about the legitimacy of the press release, even if it was real. Could we have here a black project covering a black project?

Originally posted by soulforge
Is it me, or do those pics look waaaay fake? Especially the first one. I wonder about the legitimacy of the press release, even if it was real. Could we have here a black project covering a black project?

You seem to bring up 2 interesting points:
1. Legitimacy of the Bird of Prey:
The Boeing Bird of Prey is a legit project, as stated before it was a tech demonstrator for the X-45 UCAV.
It is on display in the Modern Flight hangar of the National Museum
of the USAF at Wright-Patterson AFB. So in that regard it is not a "fake".

2. Black Project covering a Black Project:
There were rumors and reports of a "swing-wing" stealth aircraft in the late 1990's preceding the revelation of the Bird of Prey. This elusive "swing wing" was assumed to be a replacement for the F-111 and the media and enthusiasts had dubbed it the "Switchblade".

However, when the squadron patch (as seen in the photos provided by Simon Gray in this thread) was leaked to various media sources these sources thought that the patch was related to the "swing wing" stealth fighter that they had been calling the "Switchblade". That turned out to not be the case as the Bird of Prey aircraft was revealed soon after.

One thought that Intelgurl brought up in a post last year was that the funding for one black project could be a cover for multiple black projects.
Just as you brought up, could the BoP be a cover for another as yet unrevealed black project? One way to find out would be to follow the money trail - if you could find out how much money was allocated for the BoP project.

Although there were reports of a swing wing stealth fighter back in the late 1990's, one would have to be curious as to just how stealthy a swing wing airframe could be and therefore just how practical it would be.
It's anybody's guess though.

bios

Originally posted by soulforge
Could we have here a black project covering a black project?

You raise an intresting question here! A while back, I looked at the very same question with the long standing Aroura Project. I think many of the "Code Names" we here are covers for several Black Projects that are grouped together. If this is the case, Bird of Prey might be the cover for avanced stealth designs including: Daylight Stealth (demonstrated by the Boeing design), Swing-Wing stealth (possibly a Northrop design), Stealth with Forward swept wings (Northrop?), ect.

It is rumored that the Earily Stealth Demonstrators (Have Blue, Tacit Blue)were all hidden under the Umbrilla: Project Harvey. While this is debated, I have seen it in several sources including the book Stealth Aircraft by Bill Sweetman, and the video:Nighthawk: Secrets of the Stealth Fighter.

So Yes, we COULD have a Black Project covering one, or even several other Black Projects!

hurrah I have started a discussion, I'm so happy

I agree with the assupmtion that 1 project probably harbours many. I haven;t heard of project 'Senior Citezen' i na while. Also what about Black Manta is that a seperate project to Aurora or are they sompeting against each other?

i suppose it could be that a black project ends up not being suitable for a certain use but then later it becomes useful for another purpose.

that would also explain why BOP was made public without any real reason, perhaps its rivals (which are still classified) are just so far above it that they can afford to release a plane usine what are now 'industry standards'. Everyone else looks at it and says 'DAMN if that what they let us see what have they got thats secret!'

Shootfighter2001, feel special because the all powerful master Simon Gray spoke to you! :p

The B-2 is still pretty damn classified, all we know is most of the weapons it can carry, we have a rough estimate on it's performance (most of it is still classified) and we have little understanding of what kind of equipment it carries.

the US government isn't letting mcch loose about it...

12 planes are being slated for declassification and four of them are manned according to some new mexico guys in the white sands region.

I remember seeing the Bird of prey when it was still secret. it was at night though so wasnt much to see.

Following the money seems like a great way to track down who is getting funded but I don't know if it could lead to what the actual project is.

One way to find neat stuff is to do patent searches. You can search the U.S. patent office and see full page texts and drawings of things companies like Lockheed and Boeing have patented. You just can't type a search for "Secret Aircraft", you have to do wierd searches like "Aero-elastic Wing" etc.

US Patent Office database (searchable):
www.uspto.gov...


Tips........... Always click on the images link in the patent file.
Search using a company name like lockheed in the assignee field.

Some fun things to see:

A plan to give the B-2 bomber a variable camber nose like the concord.
Patent #6,129,308

A system for controlling a triangle shaped aircraft with the propulsion system placed inboard. The images show something like what the TR-3B thing is supposed to be.
Patent #6,227,498

The links are to long to copy and paste on ATS and the images are protected, you have to buy copies of them from the patent office. Those are just two Northrop things I found.

I hope somebody finds something neat to post, all I seem to do is eat up time reading stuff way above my head.

Good one looking4truth! i'll do so when I have more time...

I don't give this much credibility to this but a couple of moths ago the History channel had a show on modern stealth aircraft and they had this formers DoD guy talking about secret projects and he said there were 16 aircraft currently being considered for declassification and 4 of them were manned.

hmmm cool. Considering is hardly defenitive though is it lol would love to see even 1 though!

They'll try to keep it secret as long as possible... But usually they tell about it sooner or later because they want to brag about it...

Back in 2000 I taped a 2/hr documentary of Nick's (of Janes Defense Weekly) travels through the US looking into the UFO problem.

During his travels he had interviews with the like of Bob Bushman, Lockheed Martin Skunk Works head engineer.

He also had an interview with a Lt General at the Pentagon in charge of black ops funding allocation and was told there are Black Projects that cannot be discussed. (on Tape).

He went on to say that during the first 10-15 years Black Projects remain that way. Then as aviation technology advances the older black projests become 'grey', meaning you will see them flying about but nothing can be said by Military/Airforce people as they are still black.

Then as time progresses proplr will see them more often and they won't be restricted to being kept in high security hangars and flown only at night.

Then from grey they go light grey that's when the high ups announce the existense and name of the formerely Black Project craft but all tech specs remain top Secret..

Dallas