Debunking the myth: We are creating terrorists in Iraq

Originally posted by RedWhiteandBlood


The worst revolution in history, the French Revolution, was led by Robespierre, who was a rich diplomat that was more like Howard Dean than anyone.

Seeing as how you brought up the French...

What about the French resistance? They were invaded and oppressed, yet they rose to fight against the Germans.

And once they survived, they didn't go back and try to kill all the Nazi soldiers. The vast majority of them went the civil HUMAN route and had impartial trials and said never again.

I take it you've never seen the footage of concentration camp survivors beating to death their guards after being liberated. I take it you've never heard of partisan groups killing Nazi collaborators after liberation. Theres more but thats all I can think of off the top of my head.

Originally posted by RedWhiteandBlood
Look at what we did to the slaves. Hundreds of years of torture, yet there wasn't no slave uprising in the south after the Civil War.

No slave uprisings? You must not have paid attention in many of your civic history classes in school, history is rife with examples of slave uprisings (in every culture) Source

Throughout history, civilizations that employed large numbers of slave laborers had to take measures to ensure control of the slaves, and always had to sleep with one eye open, figuratively, in case the slaves rose up in revolt against their masters. The Southern United States, with slaves comprising about 40 percent of the population, had good reason to fear slave uprisings and had seen enough demonstrations of what could happen should an organized revolt develop. Many of the islands in the West Indies, including Jamaica, Barbados, Saint Dominique, and Martinique, had experienced slave uprisings that brought on the wholesale slaughter of the white masters and their families and the burning of the great plantations. The most famous of the revolts, in Saint Dominique, was successful in freeing the slaves, who then formed the independent country of Haiti. As recently as 1832, Jamaica had had the latest of a series of violent slave revolts.

EDIT - added emphasis


[edit on 28-6-2005 by CaptainJailew]

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
The fact is this has nothing do with iraq, it has to do with the dislike GW bush, and they dislike that we reelected the guy.

I'd laugh if it weren't so tragic.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Originally posted by RedWhiteandBlood
Instead of posting what should actually be a blog, or a long, uninformed rant, perhaps you could try and enlighten us with facts from credible sources.

What the heck's your problem? I put three posts of the view from the other side and your response is "Go post a blog?". Like experts from the Nation or Mother Jones are credible sources? What about those million posts of saying Bush caused 9/11 that I see here everyday?

Actually yes, the Nation and Mother Jones are very credible sources. They have been read and widely considered long before your entrance to ATS.

You said you were going to debunk something. You debunked nothing. But we all read your angry screed. You write well, btw.

If you want to prove something, post links to some credible evidence or bring some personal experience to the table to make your points.

Without that, you're debunking nothing. You're the right hand side of the page. That is called opinion/editorial (OP/ED).

Creating terrorists no.. not directly.

What the US did succeed in creating is a civil war!

Oh and surprise, surprise they "have to" stick round to police it.



[edit on 29/6/2005 by Corinthas]

Originally posted by Corinthas
Creating terrorists no.. not directly.

What the US did succeed in creating is a civil war!

Oh and surprise, surprise they "have to" stick round to police it.



[edit on 29/6/2005 by Corinthas]

The U.S. is effectively doing both.

But our government isn't helping matters any.

Not since Vietnam has media been such an important tool of any major conflict, including the spy days of the cold war. With modern technologically savy people, it is easier to persuade the younger generations with this "propaganda machine".

Just the last night I watched a 2005 documentary, channel 285 or the Discovery Science Channel. Exploring al-Qaida and their strategy of propaganda. "as Sahaab" means "clouds" in Arabic, and that is exactly how they are broad casting their own propagada machine, like clouds among the electronic air waves. CDs with this anti American media are openly available on the streets of Saudi Arabia and other places through out the middle east. I am not sure what is worse, beheading videos, or how America is portrayed by who ever fabricated as Sahaab.

I am sure, that those who are targeted by the video will only serve to be future threats, as a boy who was taped said;
"One day when I am older, I hope to fight against America."

This sort of thing will only encourage terrorism for the next 100 years.
Only god knows how much longer it will take to correct the problem.


[edit on 29-6-2005 by ADVISOR]

The only problem with your idea RedWhiteandBlood is that when most people say the war in Iraq is creating more terrorists they are not referring to Iraqi civilians becoming terrorists. The war in Iraq is creating new terrorists. Groups like Al-qaida use it as a recuritment tool all over the world and are sending new recruits into Iraq not just to die but for training as well. There are already numerous reports of foreign fighters entering Iraq, fighting, and leaving via Syria in to western Europe for god knows what. We are helping to foster all over the world the very thing we say we are fighting in Iraq.

[edit on 29-6-2005 by Delta 38]

.
Turning predisposed terrorists against the US
There are probably people who are inclined to commit acts of violence, especially where governments are harsh and unjust.
By invading their cultural portion of the world we won't turn them into terrorists, but they will target their terrorism at the US instead-of/in-addition-to their own governments.

Creation of Terrorists
If you take a stable nation and turn it into a lawless chaos controlled by battling war-lords you will train young people that violence is how things are governed.
That is what happened in Afghanistan,
And the likelyhood is that will be what we leave in place in Iraq.

When you create general community hatred by Arabs for the US with things like Abu Grabe, some will advocate and commit acts of violence against the US, and they will be supported by many other of their community

Many unhappy people of the world, including many in the US, like to have someone to focus their frustrations and anger at.
Bush has accomplished no useful objective in Iraq, and has painted a bullseye on the US for a frustrated angry portion of the world.

We are culturally different than the Middle East and rubbing their faces in our military abilities, as well as cultural differences in a war for no purpose is unbelievably stupid.

You are in denial of the law of unintended consequences.
.

The bottom line is the problem/reaction/solution is being employed quite effectively. In that sense, Rumsfeld's war is going swimmingly.

They're all sitting back, getting everything they wanted. The military/industrial complex is screwing us all without a kiss.

And people actually keep cheering them on.. sending our sons and daughters off to be slaughtered and maimed. For that.

It's the foreign policy, stupid!

If my country wer invaded by a Nazi like war horse that was slaughtering families of those who spoke out against a corrupt system I would take up arms and kill the bastards who took my flesh and blood away

Originally posted by The_Doctor
If my country wer invaded by a Nazi like war horse that was slaughtering families of those who spoke out against a corrupt system I would take up arms and kill the bastards who took my flesh and blood away

It has !!!!! bush has Nazi links and there is no physical invasion YET, but all your rigths a loonnnggg gone.
So when are you americans going to wake up and figth back. Before you all are living in prison camps with micro chips ?

Originally posted by Sand_manIt has !!!!! bush has Nazi links and there is no physical invasion YET, but all your rigths a loonnnggg gone.
So when are you americans going to wake up and figth back. Before you all are living in prison camps with micro chips ?

as long as the drive thru's stay open and the cables on.....NEVER!

[edit on 30-6-2005 by nubby]

Well then a big key is to knock out the broadcast of TV to a major population for awhile and see what happens? Would be kinda interesting dont you think? Seriously though if you watch tv what would you do if it was gone for a week, month, or even a year?

its not actually that bad, ive gone without tv fer months at a time ( i also did 2 years once without coke and fastfood), after a week ya get used to it and its sorta like kickin a real lame drug that ya realised ya never really had a good time on anyways, ya just took it cause it was there.....plus you end up doin a whole bunch more stuff instead of sittin on yer fat ass for every spare moment you get......whoa! the nets fargen heroin then by that rational then! HEAVY

Originally posted by Sand_man

So when are you americans going to wake up and figth back. Before you all are living in prison camps with micro chips ?

What do you suggest we do?