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posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 02:55 AM
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Five words; peace in the middle east. = thanks to George W. Bush.




posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 03:24 AM
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Originally posted by Boatphone
XyZer,

Sounds, like you've been watching to many mike moore movies.


George W. Bush will be looked apon as a great figure in world history!!


I'm sorry to dissapoint you Boatphone, I destest Micheal Moore, he told only half the story..... Yet you immeaditly think i'm one of his fanboys cause i have a different oppinion ? smart...


Please do tell me what your great president has achieved then that he will be remembered by the entire world as the greatest president ever ? (FYI the world is bigger then just the USA)

Letting 9/11 happen ? His ties to the Saoudi Royal house ? his friendship with the Bin Laden family ? His "shady" election victory ?

And if you think that there is peace in the middle east.... then you're not very well informed, and this is because of GW bush you say ...?



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 02:37 PM
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GlobalDisorder, you are walking conspiracy machine. You've made so many outlandish posts since i quit last night.

1) YES! Bush WON the Presidency in 2000. It is DOCUMENTED FACT! After all the votes were counted and recounted (THREE TIMES IN FACT) he was STILL the winner!!! Why can't you liberals accept documented evidence?!? It wasn't given to him. There is no EVIL conspiracy. His father and brother didn't "rig" anything to give it to him. There is no EVIL conspiracy. There's NO evidence of this at all! You MUST be brainwashed by Michael Moore or something. After all Michael Moore makes $$$ off gulible people like yourself.

2) WMD's. Clinton, your beloved President also said that the CIA told him the Saddam had them. This is SAME EXACT information that Bush acted on.

3) Going to War. The Presidents job is to protect the American people, even if that means using the Armed Forces. After 9-11, Bin Laden said that he wanted to get a hold of WMD's to use against Americans. Saddams men were photographed talking to Al Quida agents. Do the math. If you were President and your job was to protect the American people, what would you do? Talk to them????

4) Congress VOTED YES to go to war with Iraq. The evil dark lord Bush didn't use a mind trick on them. Half Republicans and Democrats voted to do this. Once again this NOT made up, it is a fact. Now, the same Democrats that voted YES for war are saying the President lied to them. When they have the same info that Clinton had.

NONE of this is made up, unlike your fantasy tabloids. These are facts, go look them up yourself.



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 06:44 PM
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Faust,
I dont like using michael moore stuff in mydiscussions
But explain wwhy in the REAL footage of officials one by one stnaindg up at the podium, protesting that the election was decided in the courts and not by the people?
Isnt it usual he's the first president to have that sort of criticism about the victory?
Isnt it unsual he has such a warm welcoming from his ' electing ' pubilc on inauguration day?

Of cours recounts are going to say bush won, its the same friggen people whom MADE hmi win that are doing the bloody recount. Use ya head son!

I aint american, and honestly couldnt give a rats ass about your presidents, so stoip telling me my beloved persident and all that crap...
The reason i bought clinton up was hey maybe he did have the same info from the CIA,
but he damn well didnt INVADE...
he never setup patriot missles in washington striking fear into the public about the attack....
Bush seemed to fly of the handle just a lil if u wanna compare him to clinton

And the CIA didnt just willfully hand over all this WRONG evidence against IRAQ prior to '03, why were so many whitehouse officials pressuring the CIA and pentagon? if not pursuading them?

Why are the British kicking such a storm about faked memo's, fraudulant evidence and all this?... are they just making it all up ?

Shouldnt bush be more concerned about WMDs gettnig to terrorist from another country? IRAN maybe..... Pakistan? hey how about their lush lil home in saudi?

with the amount of evidence the Bush admin was able to present on IRAQ prior to '03, didnt seem to me like they had enough to even start a verbal argument let a lone a war.. so what made them so sure that this IRaq and Saddam Duo, whom wasnt really in tune with osama and didnt appreciate each other, start conversing and plotting..

Why are so many hijackers not Iraqi, but Saudi?
If 10 men broke into my house, 8 of them were australian and 2 were foreigners, im sure as hell not going to go and attack indonesia am I...

None of it makes sense...
Dont you think that the familes, friends of dead soilders, the families and friends of iraqi's deserve to hear the truth about why they had to live this horror?
and not just some weak truths that have been criticised and proved fake so many times... that its just a joke people whom try to defend them..



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 06:57 PM
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It just seems so trendy to be anti-Bush....

If I were an American terrorist, I could bomb the Opera House in Australia and the whole world would blame Bush. After all...he planned 9-11, he faked the war on terror, set up the Iraq war to steal oil, set up the Patriot Act to take control, etc, etc...

In light of all that, the guy just HAS to be a genius.


Ooops, sorry...Elvis is at the door. Have to run.



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 07:04 PM
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IF your about being trendy in your thoughts by all means keep trying..


But in the case of all the - anti bush - people, they actually have a reason,
1709 american reasons, and countless iraqi reasons...

What reasons do we have to believe him ?

He hasnt given us a single shred that turned out to be 100% true

unless ur also the gullable sort.



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 10:11 PM
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honestly Global, i'm sure you're a good man and you're intitled to your opinion like the rest of us. I just can't relate to what you're saying. I've seen all the facts about all of this repeatedly and have no idea where you get your information. Most people who step up to podiums and say whatever is mainly because they're sore losers and like to lash out with made up stuff, i've seen it my whole life and not just in politics.

Look on the bright side, this will be Bush's last term. You've withstood 5 years of him. What's another 3?



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 10:46 PM
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So, we're still arguing whether or not Bush won, although the ones who claim Bush stole Florida in 2000 ignore the fact that the Democratic Fla. Supreme Court ignored the law to give it to Gore? Who stole, or attempted to steal, what? In 2000, the crime was avoided, but because the pick of some was denied the theft, some still refuse to get over it? Come on, SON, use your head!

There is nothing but speculation and baseless theories about any theft of any election by Shrub, yet so many prefer to state it as fact. That removes credibility.

We are in Iraq, now. All of you who scream that there are no weapons in Iraq KNOW that before Bush started to move on Iraq, back when your favorite little political darlings said the same thing as Bush, you thought the same thing everyone else thought, and that is Hussein had them. You know he used them, you know he played the shell games, and you know he blocked the inspection teams from unfettered access. Gee, why would he do that?

You know that the Iraqi people are better off, and you know that the world is better off not having Hussein around to harbor terrorists and allow them to train in Iraq. As it turned out, we'll never know where the weapons went to, if they still existed, because the administration gave Hussein MONTHS to get rid of any material. Personally, I believe they are in Syria, but I know no more than any other citizen. Here's what I do know: The Iraqis are better off, they have the chance to govern themselves, and if the Allied forces stick around and train their army and police, they can defend themselves from the Iranian, Syrain and Saudi terrorists who come across the border to disrupt the Iraqi liberty so that it can fall into anarchy, and out of the ruins Muslem rule can be instated.

All of the wild assertions have born no fruit, and there is no time in history one could point to as evidence that the U.S. goes overseas and conquors to keep nations. You all know this, and most have benefited from this, so why not a little benefit of the doubt, huh?

And, think about it; had the U.S. been trying to take over the Iraqi oil fields, would we have asked our "allies" to help us enforce the long-violated resolutions? Remember, the "allies" who, it turned out, were benefiting from under the table deals with Hussein?

You'd be better off looking under other rocks, such as the ones worthy of inspecting. First stop might be the Oil For Food crimes, and why the U.N. leader and his son arn't behind bars.



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 11:46 PM
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Clinton had documented information of where Bin Laden was going to be in Afghanistan, and WHEN he was going to be there, and didn't do anything about it. He hit the site AFTER he left there with like two Tomahawk cruise missiles. Clinton did our country a lot of good, but he also made a lot of mistakes, and could have done more to stop terrorists, and chose not to do it.

As far as Iraq goes, it doesn't matter if I support the war or not. We are there, and it is our responsibility to STAY there until the mission is finished, and Iraq can support itself and keep other countries out without us being there.

Iraq is NOT the "breeding ground" of terrorism that everyone makes it out to be. There are large numbers of foreign "fighters" slipping into the country so that they can kill American troops, and chase away the Great Satan. I have also read many stories by reporters with the troops where Iraqi people come up to them and shake their hands, and thank them, and the children run up to them and are happy to see them. But we don't hear about that because it's good news.



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 11:59 PM
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Originally posted by XyZeR
I'm sorry to dissapoint you Boatphone, I destest Micheal Moore, he told only half the story..... Yet you immeaditly think i'm one of his fanboys cause i have a different oppinion ? smart...


I’m happy you dislike him.


Please do tell me what your great president has achieved then that he will be remembered by the entire world as the greatest president ever ? (FYI the world is bigger then just the USA)


President Bush will be remembered for defeating global terrorism. Removing Saddam who was hated by everyone. And standing tall against hay-sayers like you!

Yes, the world is much larger than the U.S., what is your point?



Letting 9/11 happen ? His ties to the Saoudi Royal house ? his friendship with the Bin Laden family ? His "shady" election victory ?


What are you talking about?? All of that is garbage....it means NOTHING.

Letting 9/11 happen??? Oh, please get real...can you say CLINTON!


And if you think that there is peace in the middle east.... then you're not very well informed, and this is because of GW bush you say ...?


There WILL be peace in the middle east when President George W. Bush and the U.S. troops have defeated the terrorists and set up a power base in Iraq to put more pressure on the other middle east nations to leave violence behind! Do you understand how complex the world is, its not a freaking fairy tale! Get real!



posted on Jun, 29 2005 @ 12:09 AM
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For all those who support the troops, go to www.americasupportsyou.mil and send a message. Let them know they're in our prayers and we haven't forsaken them.



posted on Jun, 29 2005 @ 12:12 AM
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Originally posted by Zaphod58
For all those who support the troops, go to www.americasupportsyou.mil and send a message. Let them know they're in our prayers and we haven't forsaken them.


I did, and I sent $25 to create a package. Tomorrow i'm going to send a postcard as well.


I suggest others do the same, even if you don't like the war, the troops still need the lift.



posted on Jun, 29 2005 @ 12:22 AM
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For starters judge crown, just because ur government thought there were WMDS in IRAQ, and the Gullable ones in the USA also believed this, doesnt mean EVERYONE did.

The reason its so shady, is because your government had ROCK SOLID proof, undeniable proof that saddam was stockpiling WMD's.

Well it turned out he had not even a shred of WMD in all of IRAQ.
So what exactly was this iron clad PROOF ur government had? jee's id liket o see it.. but we never ever will.. WHY? because there wasnt any iron clad proof. as the british are slowly leaking out, the facts were fixed..

YORU DEAD WRONG when you say the IRAQI's aer better off..
No Water, No Power, No sewage... and an American occupation which they consider satan....

Saddam was a brutal leader, and some of the things he did to his own people are shocking, but no worse than other leaders and rulers of our day.. Whast so special about IRAQ
He managed to keep a lid on the political bickering, he hadnt threatened or ATTACKED anyone for some time, and he sure as hell WASNT building WMDs.

Just because your president doesnt agree with or like the man, doesnt give him the right to convince you gullables that he's the worst man on earth.

ASked the allies? hahaha come on..

You didnt ASK anyone,
You bribed them, dangled carrots, and used your econoic power to pull strings so countries would come into it with you.
Thats why the SMART ones didnt come in, or left quickly.
The saw the deceit behind the US Governments attack on IRAQ.

IF you want to scream curroption between governments, IRAQS not the only place to look.
Im certain America probably has much more under the table deals that suit your president...Your just gullable enough to believe everything your leader tells you..

you were a loner in school wernt you? lashing out at people, believing anyone who said anything?

Im convinced this UN oil for food scandal will be revealed in ALL its light, and theyre will be a lot more to it than simply the father and son.
I can almost gaurantee you that the USA is also a part ofi t one way or another.

Why does everyone believe CLINTON is the affector for 911?

IF Bill Clinton receieved a memo, saying alqaeda was going to hjack planes and use them as bombs what would he of done?

A HELL OF A LOT MORE THAN BUSH...

ITs pathetic comparing them in this situation.
Clinton never recieved the reports.

BUSH DID..

I agree if Clinton saw an opportunity to remove a terrorist he should of taken it..
But I but a lot more blame on the man who COULD OF STOPPED AN ATTACK... but didnt.

Boatphone,

WHy in your opinion does
the Saudi House, Bin Laden, Bush and the election shady victory mean nothing?

All 4 things come into play for each other, all 4 things are HIGHLY disputed around the world, yet you niave enough to say all of this ISNT related?
where's the logic in that...

doesnt matter majorit of hijackers were saudi...
that osama is Saudi...
that SAudi has so much trillion in America, and MILLIONS in the pockets of the Bush family...
doesnt matter that bush's elected was the most contraversial election in the history of the US.

doesnt take a genius to see something's fishy there..
or perhaps jsut some idiotic ilogical gullable guinea pig who's still chasing the carrot his president is putting in front of him.

If the USA Puts a powerbase in the middle of IRAQ.. how is that gonigto make the situation better?..

the middleeast HATES the USA, and would rather then off the face of the planet..
you go and ptu a base in the middle of them, ist goign to cause a S**T load more chaos than there ever has been..

Again your just niave in your thoughts.

Dotn get me wrong, I support the troops one hundered percent.

I dont support the REASON theyre there, or the man who SENT them there.
And anyone who does needs to wake up and smellthe coffee, because your all being played for fools.
and it will come out eveantually...

Mark my words!



posted on Jun, 29 2005 @ 01:25 AM
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Look I know I'm late to the party but I feel its time for another voice to be heard. First off as a Republican, I supported Bush in 2000 and I abstained in 2004. I no longer trust this administration and much of Congress, the Senate and the House. Why? Because the events of 9/11. I'm from NY and New Yorkers are the definition of Western civilization in terms of diversity, culture and all the beautiful things that make NY great. We also curse, are lewd at times, raise the middle finger and drop the F bomb at will. That's who we are. We are no nonsense people. So when 9/11 happened, we want to know every damn detail of the event including the past, the present day and the future.

And from researching 9/11 I have come to conclude that regardless whether the Bush administration knew of the events or not prior to the attack, the point is no one has been held accountable for MASSIVE intelligence failures and collapses worse than that of the twin towers to be frank. Where did all the Cold War money go? So your telling me that trillions in military spending could not prevent 4 airplanes from going AWOL for roughly 2 hours? NORAD exists for the sole purpose of intercepting and shooting down aircraft hijacked by terrorists. In contrary to what Bush has said publicly that "no one could have imagined flying planes into the towers" NORAD has performed several such scenarios over and over. Even if Bush knew nothing of NORAD maybe someone should send him a DVD of the LoneGunmen's 1st and only season I believe where such an exact scenario took place months prior to 9/11. The NORAD issue is absolutely the smoking gun that needs to be investigated.

Your government is lying to you. It has become clear as day. Bin Laden supposidly engineered the 9/11 attacks. Very well, then unleash the greatest military ever on Afghanistan which is Bin Laden's last known whereabouts apprently. Ok so Afghanistan is bombed back to the days of Mohammed. NO BIN LADEN. Then suddenly Bin Laden is no longer top priority for the govt. YOU BLAME THIS JIHADIST FOR PLOTTING 9/11 the WORST CRIME EVER COMMITTED ON U.S. SOIL AND SUDDENLY YOU GIVE UP SEARCHING FOR HIM. Wait no while we are in the area, Iraq is up to its old tricks of being a poor, desolate and corrupt Arab nation. Out goes Bin Laden, In goes Saddam Hussein. So now the official story is that Iraq has ties to Al-Qaeda (proven false in fact Saddam fought them because this is HIS dictatorship and no one elses).

But wait thats not all if you bomb now you also get fradulent intelligence pointing to Saddam possessing WMD's. So Colin Powell goes before the corrupt UN and says that Iraq and the WMD program there is a threat to everyone in the world. Well let's see Iraq's glorious military history. Iraq has fought Iran and Kuwait and both border IRAQ. Iraq launched cruise missiles against Israel as well which prompted the Israelis to fly a squadron of fighters UNCHECKED into Iraqi airspace and blow up their nuclear reactor. WOW Iraq is such a threat to the U.S. which is several thousand miles away and separated by several continents. Iraq was a corrupt dictatorship that only threatened its neighbor countries and its citizens.

So the American war machine marches into Iraq. No Bin Laden. No links to Al-Qaeda. No WMD program (even though I believe what WMD's Saddam possessed was simply given to Syrian or other allies before we invaded). Look at how far off track we are from the original purpose of finding and bringing to justice the terrorists who engineered the attacks of September 11? So now Iraq is conquered and is putting up a better resistance than the Afghani's which is beginning to become a sand trap on the way to Iran and possibily several other countries including N. Korea and a possible defense of Taiwan from China.

One poster wrote "President Bush will be remembered for defeating global terrorism." If Bush is gonna defeat global terrorism, then the rate he is currently exterminating terrorism at is too slow. For anyone who believes the Bush doctrine which is the PNAC doctrine I have a few questions. How can Bush defeat terrorism EVERYWHERE in the 3 years he has left? How many more wars do you expect to be involved in? Do you think powerful nations such as China, Russia and several European countries are going to sit still and not react to the powerplay that is occuring by the last hegemon on the planet? They do not see the War on Terror the way we have been programmed to see it. They may very well see it as American expansionism and aggressive military behavior and respond dually. I realize this post is exceedingly long and I apologize for its length but I feel that what I have said bears merit in todays political atmosphere of fear and patriotism.

I fear the future. I fear for the future of the men and women in our armed services. I fear the future of these politics of terror. I fear for every man, woman and child in this great country. I fear for the world's people. I fear that voices such as mine and those of dissent regardless of party affiliation will be silenced by the beating of war drums and horrific events yet to unfold.
I FEAR THE FUTURE BECAUSE THERE MAY NOT BE ONE. Is the future you want to unfold?

MILITARY DRAFT? WORLD WAR III? GLOBAL ECONOMIC COLLAPSE? A NUCLEAR, BIOLOGICAL OR CHEMICAL 9/11?

THESE FUTURE EVENTS ARE BEING CREATED BY THE POLITICS AND ACTIONS OF TODAY.



posted on Jun, 29 2005 @ 01:37 AM
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Originally posted by GlobalDisorder
I wanna know, why people out there are still supporting this war on terror?
Not supporting in terms of trying to FINISH it,
but in terms of still standing up for WHY this war happened.

After all the deaths, the lies, and deceit and coverups
Why.. HOW can you still believe that this war was needed, and the decent thing to do ?

What has this war COST us?

1700 US Soilders?


The question should be, why are you supporting this war in Iraq? The supposed war on terrorism is a whole 'nother matter.


(How many THOUSNADS of people aer affected now becuase theyre Son, Daughter, Mother or Father have been killed by some lone iraqi brandashing a AK defendign his homeland?)


Obviously, far too many.


But instead, this money has been spent on the Destruction of Iraq, the MURDER of IRAQI's, and the deaths of 1700 American Soilders.[/quote\

Welcome to militaryindustrialcomplexLand.


And for what?

We're at a point now, where our government, and the Iraqi Government cant even agree on how much of this fight is left.. 12yrs of 2 yrs?


President Bush says, "Demarcacy is on the march!"


I obviously dont suppport this war,


Welcome to the club.



posted on Jun, 29 2005 @ 01:40 AM
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Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander
It just seems so trendy to be anti-Bush....



Actually, if its trendy to be anything, its to be a Republican right now. That's why the GOP is so friggin far off base. It is populated by pseudo repubicans. Back in the 80's and 90's I was a proud Republican. Back then being Republican was not cool. To me, politics is not about what's hot. It's about what's real.

[edit on 6/29/05 by EastCoastKid]



posted on Jun, 29 2005 @ 02:14 AM
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I swear, if i get called a bush basher one more time again i'll become one ASAP.


There WILL be peace in the middle east when President George W. Bush and the U.S. troops have defeated the terrorists and set up a power base in Iraq to put more pressure on the other middle east nations to leave violence behind!


LOL now that's a fairy tale, ....
So Bush in the 3 years he has left is going to solve ALL the problems in the middle east and there will be peace in an area that has been a conflict zone since we started recording history ? Don't get me wrong i'dd love to see peace in the Middle east but an american military force will never create peace trought bombing the bejeebeez out of a country, if anything it will create more and fierce opposition, which is logical !
Yes the world is more complex , much more then you seem to grasp. Is Bush going to solve the Palestinian-Jewish issue? Cause if you've studied this case, that is the KEY to establishing peace in the middle east!

And no american here is in a place to say that " The iraqi's have it so much better now" I'm not saying Saddam was an angel, but Iraq is of far worse then before the invasion. Anyone thinking the opposite fell for the propaganda.

If Bush would have gone after the real dangerous ones (the Saoudi's) he would have gained a littel respect imho , but no, he went after Saddam (WHO WAS NEVER A THREAT TO THE MIGHTY USA IN TEH FIRST PLACE) Then again if he would have done that, all his ties to the various Saoudi's royals would have been exposed...

[edit on 29-6-2005 by XyZeR]



posted on Jun, 29 2005 @ 05:15 PM
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GlobalDisorder, i REALLY try to ignore you, but let's face it. YOU are a flat out liar. 90% of the stuff you say in here is COMPLETELY made up.

Why don't you just say what's REALLY on your mind. Perhaps that YOU HATE AMERICA AND ALL THAT IT STANDS FOR. If your country ever suffers from a disaster, let us count together the hundreds of millions of dollars the United States gives your country shall we? You wouldn't know the difference between evil and good if it were right in your face, simply because you are filled with way too much hate.



posted on Jun, 29 2005 @ 07:31 PM
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FAUST:

Please tell me how exactly you go from being against the war, to being anti-America? Man, this war is about lies, and oil. This is crap, and you know it. Saddam had nothing to do with 911 - although bush did his damndest to connect the two, polls afterward showed that a majority of Americans thought that Saddam was actually responsible for 911. This presidency has shown itself not to care about the world, or peace - and even worse than that - not care about his own people. That debt this war without reason is going to be paid by is their children, their grandchildren. You want terrorism - how about generational terrorism??

Iraq, nor anyone in there was a risk. There were no WMD's, all the reasons were found to be either out dates, or speculative. Promises made have been broken, and rights for Americans that this thing was supposed to protecting against, have been taken away.



posted on Jun, 29 2005 @ 09:13 PM
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Faust how can you call ANYONE a liar in this regard?

Im telling you waht happened,
Not what I think happened.

You telling me im lying when i say bush ranted and raved abotu how Threatening IRAQ was, ?
Or im lying and he did really find these weapons?

OR I am lying when british memo's are constantly talking about fixed evidence and proof?

Am I lying saying that IRAQI's are admitting how bad things are, and that things are MUCH MUCH worse now?

Would you like PROOF of all these thigns?
REports, accounts and all this?

How about you correct me on all my lies..
one by one, tell me why you think im LYING?



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