Koran illegal in the UK? It will be soon….

Originally posted by Lady of the Lake
In case it has escaped you our legal system is based on the British system and our laws in this regard were never meant to deliver the results they have.

- Your Austrailian law has its basis in British law but nevertheless it is not identical IIRC.

The difference between then and now is that we live in an ever increasingly litigious society.

- You surely can't just ignore 40yrs of on-going practise on the basis of just making a claim that things are different now!?

The fact remains you made claims regarding these hate laws, I pointed out we in the UK have had race hate legislation for 40yrs.

This is both precedent and relevant. You can't simply ignore that and sweep it away with a baseless set of claims.

We are also ever influenced my the minority in the making of laws which is fact. This is a trend that we should all be mindful and wary of.

- What is unusual about being informed by minorities?
It is surely sensible and just and happens with all minorities (and not 'minorities' just on the basis of religion/race etc) in our society and every sensible society.

I can assure you I am far from a nutter extreme right-wing person and I fear for what we are becoming.

- I don't. I look back at what we once were and am glad to see a more open tolerant society. It might not be perfect but I consider the warts and problems we have to be, for most, a damned sight less than those of preceeding generations.

We can learn many things from our past if we care to look.

- Indeed we can.
We can look back at those who forecast disaster with race crime legislation before, how they deployed almost exactly the same arguements back then and how wrong they were.

Look at what has been achieved by race laws in reality.

- OK, the UK has achieved, by and large, very good race relations.

.......and what?

Reverse discrimination. I mean really take a look.

- If you think reverse discrimination is the sum total of what the UK's race relations laws have achieved I think you are very very much mistaken.

With all of these various countries talking about banning books and or reading passages of books makes me very uneasy. Usually when books or loss of religious freedom are imposed a whole bunch of people end up dead.

Originally posted by cryptorsa1001
With all of these various countries talking about banning books and or reading passages of books makes me very uneasy. Usually when books or loss of religious freedom are imposed a whole bunch of people end up dead.

- Yeah but in this instance no-one is banning any religious book - like the Koran - in the UK.

Originally posted by skippytjc
Lets see how todays terror attacks on London by Islamic extremists speed this law up....

I've not watched the news since the incident, I take it by that remark that a full investigatioin has been completed and the cause of the explosions traced to "Islamic extremists"?

That was some quick damn field work.

Misfit

no offence, the holy Qur'an will not be banned cause of this, its silly if you think like this.

The only new law that might be introduced is tighter immigration.

Whats sad, is that there have been attacks on muslims in the UK...

Originally posted by Misfit

Originally posted by skippytjc
Lets see how todays terror attacks on London by Islamic extremists speed this law up....

I've not watched the news since the incident, I take it by that remark that a full investigatioin has been completed and the cause of the explosions traced to "Islamic extremists"?

That was some quick damn field work.

Misfit

A small murder case need at least few weeks for suspects. how come this is after even not going down the crime scene

Originally posted by cryptorsa1001
With all of these various countries talking about banning books and or reading passages of books makes me very uneasy. Usually when books or loss of religious freedom are imposed a whole bunch of people end up dead.

Thank you. At last someone who gets the point of the discussion.

It is about removal of rights and freedoms if I am not mistaken. The sanitising of society. Then again there are those who live in ignorance.

I think all western socity are baises because they always calm something that they dont exits in there socity and polices and that is democraticy.

If you think about it its okay for somebody to party til he is drop dead from drugs but its not okay to pray to God!

I suggest those who wish to worry about impending doom and wring their hands so much over this issue give a little thought to the fact that all British and European law now complies and incorporates the 'European Convention of Human Rights' and it's protocols.

It's a European thing (so Aus doesn't have it), maybe it'd be worth a look before anyone leaps to all sorts of hasty conclusions, huh?

www.hri.org...

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
It's a European thing (so Aus doesn't have it), maybe it'd be worth a look before anyone leaps to all sorts of hasty conclusions, huh?

Ghee, that makes me feel so much better. There are some real leading lights when it comes to human rights amongst the European group of countries..

Originally posted by Lady of the Lake
There are some real leading lights when it comes to human rights amongst the European group of countries..

- Yes indeed; having long ago left the bad old days well behind that is absolutely correct.

moving to U.K. Politics

Originally posted by infinite

Conservative MP Boris Johnson

LMFAO!!!

I missed that part

im from the UK, and all Boris Johnson does is appear on TV shows and has the piss taken out of him because he seems stoned all the time

Yeah, but Boris is a legend.

It'll never happen, the House of Lords don't wish to let this law through, they've already spoken about it many times. Remember the Church of England has people in the Lords and they'll realise it'll cause just as much problem for them as it will Muslims.

"UK: Religious hate law clears Commons"


One more hurdle

"Government attempts to clamp down on expressions of religious hatred have cleared the Commons, but are set for a rocky ride in the House of Lords.
MPs gave the Racial and Religious Hatred Bill a third reading by 301 votes to 229, a majority of 72.

Shadow minister Dominic Grieve said the bill would not improve race relations.

But Minister Paul Goggins said: "I believe we need to take on the hate mongers, whether they are terrorists or whether they are extremists."

'Catastrophically flawed'

The bill would create a new offence of incitement to religious hatred and would apply to comments made in public or in the media, as well as through written material.

The plans, which have failed to make it through Parliament twice before, cover words or behaviour intended or likely to stir up religious hatred. Jews and Sikhs are already covered by race-hate laws.

They will now undergo scrutiny in the House of Lords.

Home Office Minister Mr Goggins described the bill as small, tightly focused with "not much room for manoeuvre", although he accepted it was "not the whole answer".

"But there is a gap and we seek to close that gap through this legislation," he said.

But shadow attorney general Mr Grieve warned that the legislation remained "catastrophically flawed".

Satanists protected?

It would not improve race relations and would prevent the lawful expression of differences of view, he said.

"If the government really wants to tackle this issue, it is going to have to get away from the promises made to various people of some equal playing field, accept that religion and race are different, start to look at the real nature of the problem and try to come up with some constructive solutions."

He also argued that a failure to define religion in the bill meant sects, including Satanists, Scientologists and believers in female genital mutilation would be protected.

He said the measures could struggle to get through the House of Lords....

Liberal Democrat spokesman Alistair Carmichael said he was "embarrassed" that elected representatives were sending a bill to the Lords "that is so bad at this stage" when so much time had been spent on it.

"It is a bill that's ill-conceived in its thinking, it will be dangerous in its execution and I'm confident we have not seen the last of it," he said...."