Text of General Ramey's Roswell Telegraph?

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posted on Jun, 26 2005 @ 10:13 PM
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A few years ago a relatively big story broke in UFOlogy... some researchers had managed to enlarge the surface of the telegraph General Ramey is holding in the infamous 'weather balloon' photographs. Most of us, here, have already heard about this and, in the past, it has been extensively commented upon by ATSers.

Well, the other day I came across an old issue of Internationl UFO Reporter (which is published by CUFOS) that I had and opened it up, quite accidentally, to a story they printed that displayed the text as it had (up to that time) been interpreted by various UFO researchers. Years ago I posted some of these interpretations up here... but I can't find that thread now.

Anyways, I'd like to present you guys with those textual interpretations. The magazine displayed them in a way that had each interpretation, per line, laid out in a way that broke up the original sequence. For ATS, I've retyped everything in sequence as it occurs in the telegraph (with each researchers interpretation standing on its own). Now, some of the words/lines are still unreadable (the telegraph is partially folded) and so ‘-‘ will stand in, below, for those spots individual analysis could not decipher (I couldn’t align them all below). Also, capital letters will be used (below) for letters the researchers are sure of, lower case for letters they are nearly sure of. Note that the sentences don’t line up for each investigator, as some found more words at the beginning of each line to be intelligible than others. Lines are noted by the number at their beginning. Also, these are arranged by oldest findings to newest:

Neil Morris’ initial report:
(1)--------ARY WERE-------AS
(2)---------fxs 4 rsev1 VICTIMS OF THE Wreck and CONVEY ON TO
(3)------- AT FORT WORTH, Tex.
(4)---------S----smi Ths ELSE----unus-d—e—T&E A3ea96 L---
(5)----SO ught CRASHE s pOw-----N---SITEOne IS remotely----
(6)--------D base ToLd ---a for we—ous BY STORY are 8---
(7)----lly thry even PUT FOR BY WEATHER BALLOONS n-d—were
(8)---------la--- Denver----

Neil Morris’ later review:
(1)-------reco VERY Was ROSWELL Head olc given AS THE
(2)next 4hs VICTIMS of THE Wreck and CONVAY ON TO THE
(3)---EaM At FORT WORTH, TEX.
(4)W-S- SorTei-e---thAT---ONUS raaf T&E A#-9---Landparty
(5)(same as before)
(6)MIDDAY 509# TOLD newspaper segment of STORY Adv---
(7)LLY ThrY EVEN PUT for AF WEA TA TN BALLOONS radar W ERE
(8)And Land L—denver ofww3

David Rudiak’ first reviw:
(1)--------------officer
(2)---july 4th THE VICTIMS of THE wrECK you fOrWarded TO THE
(3)TEAM AT FORT WORTH, TEX
(4)---5 pM THE ‘DISC’ they will ship FOR A3 8th Arrived.
(5)—or 58th bomber sq—Assit offices At ROSwell As for
(6)-54 SAID MIStaken----of—story And said
(7)news—out is OF WEATHER BALLOONS which were
(8)—Add land---d--- crews

Rudiak’s second review:
(1)NEAR OPERATION AT THE
(2)RANCH AND THE VICTIMS OF THE WRECK YOU FORWARDED TO THE
(3)(same as before)
(4)THE ‘DISC’ THEY WILL SHIP FOR A3-AS2 Arrived
(5)BY B-29 ST OR C47 WRIGHT AF ASSIST FLIGHTS AT ROSWELL ASSURE
(6)THAT CIC-TEAM SAID THAT MISTAKEN MEANING OF STORY AND THINK
(7)LATE TODAY NEXT SENT OUT PR OF WEATHER BALLONS WOULD WORK
(8)BETTER IF THEY ADD LAND DEMO RAWIN CREWS

Don Burleson’s analysis:
(1) RECO—OPERATIONS WITH ROSWELL DISK 074 MJ-
(2)—AT THE – THE VICTIMS OF THE WRECK YOU FORWARDED TO THE
(3)TEAM AT FORT WORTH, TEX
(4) ON THE DISC MUST HAVE SENT LOS ALAMOS ADVANCED—
(5)URGENT. POWERS ARE NEEDED SITE TWO AT CARLSBAD, NMEX.
(6)SAFE TALK NEWSPAPER MEANING OF STORY AND
(7)ONLY SHOW – BY WEATHER BALLOONS—WAVE—
(8)L--- DENVER CREWS

John Carey’s review:
(1)RECO--- OPERATION—AT THE
(2)JULY 4th THE VICTIMS OF THE WRECK AREYOU FORWARDED TO THE
(3)—AT FORT WORTH, TEX.
(4)SSOR ON THE DISK MUST THUS SAVE FOR ATOMIC LABORATORY
(5)URGENT POWERS ARE NEEDED SITE TWO NW ROSWELL, NMEX
(6)SAFE TALK WANTED FOR MEANING OF STORY AND
(7)MISSION NEXT CREW OUT TODAY WEATHER BALLOONS
(8) 509 HAS LAND SURVIVOR CREWS


Yes, some have sentences that are very different from others. However, if you look at the differing lines from a letter by letter perspective, many match up…

…But, more important are the lines that DO match up. We see a near unanimous read of an ‘operation’ near Roswell in line 1, a situation where ‘victims’ from a ‘wreck’ are being shipped somewhere in line 2 (perhaps the most important thing here), a total consensus on ‘Fort Worth’ in line 3 (then command center for the 8th AF), a consensus on a ‘disc’ being shipped somewhere in line 4 (BTW, ‘disc’ may be written in elipses ecause many eyewitness reports say it was more of a wedge or fingernail shaped craft), a line 5-6 to which there is very little agreement, but that refers to some military activity, a line 7 that overtly discusses what could be called a ‘cover story’ (though it may seem to support the weather balloon story, at first, notice how ‘balloon’ references are sandwiched in between things like ‘safe talk’ and ‘story for newspapers’, and a line 8 that deals with sending a ‘crew’ (perhaps a demolition crew?) to the original site.

So, is this the smoking gun? Just to make something clear, these reviews were not put together solely by computer (in case you were wondering if a guy programmed his machine to ensure that it spit out things that looked cool)… Upon magnification, words like ‘DISC’, VICTIMS, WRECK, and FORT WORTH are clearly visible and readable (I’ve seen the magnifications myself). And, in case you’re also wondering if us UFO guys are reading what we want to see into this… Several people have done blind studies that show uninformed test groups consistently see even the more sensational things like ‘wreck’ and ‘victims’ in the telegraph.

In summary, if the Roswell crash was just a weather balloon… Would it have:
1 Victims
2 Require deployment of emergency military teams
3 Be referred to as a ‘wreck’
4 Involve shipping materiel overnight to sensitive locations
5 Involve recovered ‘discs’?




posted on Jun, 26 2005 @ 10:33 PM
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I guess they didn't see that coming.

Trying to cover something up, and never thinking in the future we may have technology to "read the fine print."



posted on Jun, 26 2005 @ 11:48 PM
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I believe that there was a cover up as well. Thanks for posting this information for everyone to read.



posted on Jun, 27 2005 @ 01:04 AM
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This has been discussed in detail before.

Check this page out for a complete high definition scan.

roswellproof.homestead.com...

You can make up your own mind.

This is the sites homepage with more info.

roswellproof.homestead.com...

This is probably the best page for info and reconstruction.

roswellproof.homestead.com...

View the images and decide for yourself.


dez

posted on Jun, 27 2005 @ 01:30 AM
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This isnt meant to be a joke or anything, but is it possible that something crashed 'into' a weather balloon? I just always seem to hear about a weather balloon being involved with roswell. I know it sounds a bit stretched but do we know exactly what caused the UFO to crash? Or maybe it even just happened to nick a weather balloon as it was coming down. I dunno... just an open minded observation.


dez

posted on Jun, 27 2005 @ 01:33 AM
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Forgot to include the logic in that observation, sorry for the double post. I dont think a weather balloon collision could cause the crash unless UFOs have a very delicate flight mechanism. I think its rather illogical that they wouldnt try to avoid it, but lets just say they didn't and they hit it. Maybe it created a situation in independence day where will smith drops his parachute onto the alien craft "blinding" it. I'm sure they would have avoided it though which is why I'm wonderin if perhaps they just snagged teh balloon on the way down. Stranger things have happened.

edit: I just noticed this for the second time. See that "the" towards the end of my post that's bold? I didnt do that, it happened before on another post, a random "the" in my post was bold. Has this happened to anyone else? please reply to this part of my post in a u2u or in a seperate section of your post. I dont want to draw attention away from the topic.

[edit on 27-6-2005 by dez]

[edit on 27-6-2005 by dez]



posted on Jun, 27 2005 @ 07:24 AM
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I personally don't understand how they could make words out of this
roswellproof.homestead.com...

Still, if it was done by a computer then maybe it would give results...



posted on Jun, 27 2005 @ 07:41 AM
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Ok I have a 19 inch monitor, I looked at the hi-res image. Couldn't make anything out close to it, so I walked to the other side of the room and looked again - I could make out the words 'STORY AND', 'WEATHER BALLOON'. Going back to the interpretations I saw the exact words on the last two versions. So, it's possible to make out what is there, but exactly what each word says would take perhaps a little bit of guesswork.

- Nazgarn



posted on Jun, 27 2005 @ 08:29 AM
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I'm not really convinced, there, with those interpretations. I think that they were read by people who believe there was a crash and a coverup.

I think that if you wanted a fair reading, it should be presented to someone who doesn't believe in or doesn't know about the Roswell incident (or they shouldn't be told what it is.) In other words, compare a blank knowledge reading with a knowledgeable reading. I can see how some of those words might be read several different ways.

Seriously. Take a look at the words and imagine that you were told that the telegraph is actually about the Bay of Pigs invasion (which wouldn't happen for another 20 years) and see what you get then. Or imagine that the picture is of an incident where Sasquatch was involved.

When I looked at this -- roswellproof.homestead.com...
I saw something very different.

And also -- is it just me, or is the position of the General's hand on the paper VERY different than it is in the "high res photo"??? roswellproof.homestead.com...

I'm serious, here. The general's finger doesn't seem to be pointing to anything in that top photo. The angle he's holding it at -- there's no way you could get that clear of a shot of the text. The top edge of the telegram/paper isn't anywhere NEAR his pointing finger.

The angle of the paper is all wrong, too.

I'm going to call "SCAM!" That' just CAN'T be the image from that photo!



posted on Jun, 27 2005 @ 08:46 AM
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Originally posted by dez

edit: I just noticed this for the second time. See that "the" towards the end of my post that's bold? I didnt do that, it happened before on another post, a random "the" in my post was bold. Has this happened to anyone else? please reply to this part of my post in a u2u or in a seperate section of your post. I dont want to draw attention away from the topic.

[edit on 27-6-2005 by dez]

[edit on 27-6-2005 by dez]


It seems to be a filter that picks up misspelled words. You actually typed 't-e-h' and the forum software changed it to 'the' and made it bold (not sure why it's made bold, unless it's to show that a word was replaced). I've never noticed that before. teh teh teh hee hee..


On topic... I can't make out anything except 'weather balloon' in the memo. I did once watch a documentary on the guys who are trying to piece together the dead sea scrolls. Most of the text they're working with is much like this, blurred and faded dots, but they had some killer character recognition software that could probably make the roswell memo much clearer.

Another method of deciphering it could be to reproduce the photo (same camera type, film stock, lighting, distance, etc) using known text and then compare each character. Painstaking, but it could eliminate a lot of the guesswork.

[edit on 6/27/2005 by mythatsabigprobe]



posted on Jun, 27 2005 @ 09:04 AM
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Originally posted by Indellkoffer

I'm serious, here. The general's finger doesn't seem to be pointing to anything in that top photo. The angle he's holding it at -- there's no way you could get that clear of a shot of the text. The top edge of the telegram/paper isn't anywhere NEAR his pointing finger.

The angle of the paper is all wrong, too.

I'm going to call "SCAM!" That' just CAN'T be the image from that photo!


Don't you think that in the close up your seeing the finger from his other hand? The Hand holding the Paper.

And why would the military have a cordon around the wreckage, only to throw it down in an office to take pictures of it?

They never cordoned off an area for a balloon before , or since.

Remember it was because the " Mogul" Project was "Secret" , that is the given reason behind the "Secrecy" in Roswell , but they’re then just going to lay the " Secret" Balloon out in an office for pictures.

Not adding up.



posted on Jun, 27 2005 @ 09:22 AM
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You all might find this article interesting also..




The Wilbert Smith Papers
Dr. Vannevar Bush Named as Heading a Secret UFO Study Group within the U.S. Research and Development Board (RDB)


Wilbert Smith was a Canadian radio engineer of high standing within the Canadian government during the 1950s and a high-level UFO researcher. In fact it could be said he was in charge of Canadian UFO studies between 1950 and 1962.

For much more detail about Wilbert Smith the person and his relation to UFOs, see Grant Cameron's extensive research at his presidential ufos Web site. Click here for an interview with Cameron on Smith. Also check out Cameron's new CD of Smith audios and documents.)

Among Smith's more conventional jobs, he was the Senior Radio Engineer at the Canadian Department of Transport and was responsible for AM/FM frequency allotment in Canada. A little known fact about Smith, according to Cameron, was that he also ran "Radio Ottawa" where Canadian spies radioed in, and where the Canadians intercepted Soviet communications. This put Smith in the position of knowing some of Canada's most highly classified secrets.

Smith's personal and related Canadian government UFO documents are among the most important ever found, since they state unambiguously that flying saucers were quite real and they were being secretly studied by both the U.S. and Canadian governments.



There are copies of a half dozen letters from Smith to various US Govt. officials on this website, I'm going to start reading through them now.



posted on Jun, 27 2005 @ 09:53 AM
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Dulcimer,

I know that this has been discussed before. That's why I didn't bother with a long explanation or excess citations. Like I acknowledged at the top of my first post, this has, indeed, been a subject on ATS.

My point, though, is that there are several different interpretations of what is said in the telegraph and so the purpose of this thread was to show all of the interpretations that have come up so far... not to introduce the idea. What's been written about this in the past on ATS (and, actually, not much has really been written up here considering the subject) has only approached the telegraph from one or two interpretations.

To make a lame analogy, I am not introducing ATS to the gospel. I am showing ATS various versions of the gospel and then asking people to compare them all with the hope that such a comparison can peel out the core message. I am, in short, asking for an inter-textual analysis... something that was not the subject of those other threads.



posted on Jun, 27 2005 @ 10:26 AM
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I think it would be interesting to have someone re-create the photo with a similar camera, with a " Known text" , then have that analized to see how much, if any, of the " known text " these methods could " read".



posted on Jun, 27 2005 @ 11:00 AM
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The photo zoom is rotated to make it readable rightside up.
I've corresponded with several of those who've made interpretations, and with the highest res photo prints, etc. Be assured, if it was easy to debunk as not coming from the original photo, the skeptics would have been very quick to easily blow it out of the water. That was not done. They've seen the blowup, and they know the source, it's simply easier to avoid addressing it in hopes that it will simply go away perhaps.

Key parts are pretty readable, of the actual memo such as "VICTIMS OF THE WRECK", which in and of itself, blows the whole Mogul story right out of the water...regardless of ANYTHING else on the memo. I'd definitely recommend checking out the links provided, and seeing for yourself.


[edit on 27-6-2005 by Gazrok]



posted on Jun, 27 2005 @ 11:37 AM
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I'm serious, guys. The more I look at it, the more it looks faked.

Take a close look at the general:

He's sitting there, his right hand is draped over his right thigh. The finger is pointing slightly downwards... BUT....

It's not anywhere near the top of the telegram.

See? I enlarged it and turned it upside down:

You can see the white strip of the top edge of that paper. His finger isn't near the "center" or "center left" of it (as is shown in the "blowups" of the "telegram") It's near the bottom and the right... and it's not THAT near, either. It's about 4 inches away from the paper.

The digit on that page (presumed telegram) is the left thumb, and it's at the left edge of the paper, right about the middle on the left edge. The digit on the blown up photos isn't a thumb; it's a forefinger.

You don't hold paper that way.

Whatever THAT photo is from, it's not from this particular shot.

And anyway, who goes around holding a top-secret telegram upside down so that any yobbo in the world can read it? Why wouldn't you put it away in your pocket?

[edit on 27-6-2005 by Indellkoffer]



posted on Jun, 27 2005 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by Indellkoffer
You don't hold paper that way.

Whatever THAT photo is from, it's not from this particular shot.

And anyway, who goes around holding a top-secret telegram upside down so that any yobbo in the world can read it? Why wouldn't you put it away in your pocket?



Hold a piece of Paper between your index finger and middle finger , with your thumb & index finger on the side of the paper facing you , its quite natural, and the writing on the paper would also be rightside up and facing the camera, exactly the way it is shown in the photo's.



posted on Jun, 27 2005 @ 02:23 PM
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This IS NOT faked.

If you could obtain the original photograph you could enlarge it yourself.

Every used a scanner at high dpi ? Its amazing what you can pick up.

While this example is not exactlly legal, its a way to test yourself.

Scan some money on your computer. You can see all the little details that they print on money.

Scan a photo you own with something in the background. You can enhance it alot.

They also enhanced the midtones, shadows etc. If you own photoshop or paint shop pro etc you can do it yourself.

As for the high resolution scan, open it up in an editor and zoom out to view it more clearly. At the high scan rate its hard to read anything, but once zoomed out a bit, you would be surprised.



posted on Jun, 27 2005 @ 11:30 PM
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And anyway, who goes around holding a top-secret telegram upside down so that any yobbo in the world can read it?


No one that was not military was close to him, and in 1947 the note could not be read even with enhancement. It has only been in the last 5 years or so that the technology has become available. He had years of experience with classified materials, you cannot suggest he did not know what he was doing. But he also knew some things that had to have rattled his old cage a bit. You are right that really that piece of paper should not be visible at all but I think the chaos factor has to be the answer.

This is one of those examples where we have so surpassed what we could do in 1947 that we have caught them. But it is a tribute to the power of the Wall of Mocking that was built to contain the secret that this memo has become just another 'bit' of evidence.

Stunning really. Reading that memo for the first time was just such a moment.

A.T
(-)





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